Owning Vacation Club Points For $6.13 Per Point

[Michigan Czar]

Here is a copy of an email I received from a MVCI salesman tonight. See the bold (my bolding) below, I find it interesting that they are stating in writing that there is no disadvantage.

Did you know that you can own Vacation Club Points for as low as $6.13* per Vacation Club Point when bundling with a re-sale week where as the current selling price per Vacation Club Points is $11.16*. This is a 45% discount off the list price, this is the absolute best offer we have had to own Vacation Club Points, please call or email for details. This offer is only valid at this price until close of business on Sept 5th, 2012.
Here are a few facts you may not be aware of:
• Vacation Club Points are the same whether they come from your weeks being converted or just purchasing Trust points. The only difference is how they are deeded. You will not have any dis-advantage by trying to book a reservation from your exchange points vs. Trust points.
• All of the Ritz-Carlton Vacation Club properties are now part of the Vacation Club System and the point requirement to stay in these world class properties has been lowered. The average 3 week share of a Ritz-Carlton Property averaged $500,000 with annual HOA dues averaging $18,000 you can own 10,000 Vacation Club Points for only $61,300. You can also log on to www.my-vacationclub.com and click on Plan and Book My Vacation then click the Explorer Collection / Luxury Collection link to see some of the exciting and new vacation possibilities. (Premier Status of 6,500 Vacation Club Points or more for eligibility requirement).

• People that own a timeshare take more vacations than the general public.
Re-sale Inventory is subject to availability. Marriott Vacation Club is offering the capability to bundle a Marriott Resale week with a minimum purchase of Vacation Club Points. The re-sale week (i.e. Legacy week) can be converted into Vacation Club Points every year at no additional cost. As you may not be aware, this limited resale inventory on its own cannot be converted into Vacation Club Points, however can be converted into Marriott Reward Points.
By acting sooner rather than later you can get the best of both worlds by obtaining a traditional Marriott Vacation Club week combined with our new Destinations Program – both which are deeded to you forever – at a significantly reduced cost.
Please email or call for the properties you are interested in for a Re-sale bundle. Two of the best sellers have been our Orlando Cypress Harbor FL. and our Manor Club Williamsburg VA. weeks, we also have Newport Beach, Maui, Kauai, and several more!
Here is a great link Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Program – How It Works Video that will give you an overview of our new product If you have questions please call me at (801) 468-4259 or (808) 635-7669. As a reminder, incentives are up to 30% larger when purchasing direct through me here at Owner Services rather than buying at one of our resorts due to less overhead.
Remember; “when tomorrow comes, when was the best time to spend quality time with your loved ones – the answer is always yesterday. Which would be today – the present”. Remember if you have children they will seldom remember what they received for holiday gifts, but they will always remember their Family vacations.

 

[dougp26364]

What a salesman says depends on what he wants you to believe in order to make a sale. Here it's obviously thought to be an advantage to sell the idea that points are points regardless of where they originate, trust purchase or resale week conversion. Those who have already converted will likely be told they need to "legitimize" their legacy points with a trust purchase because points are not equal until a purchase is made.

I use to have some respect for Marriott sales. Not so much anymore.

 

[FractionalTraveler]

Yes, they have been offering this bundling thing for a while now.

The bundling of a legacy week with a Trust points purchase makes them a BUNDLE of cash. More so than just buying Trust points alone since their take on the legacy week re-sale is 40%.

I own Trust points and I don't believe the statement that has been bolded is correct. I have proven this already here on TUG.

 

[jont]

The bundling of a legacy week with a Trust points purchase makes them a BUNDLE of cash. More so than just buying Trust points alone since their take on the legacy week re-sale is 40%.

Good one!:hysterical:

 

[CashEddie]

I was tempted to purchase one of these bundles just a few days ago but decided against it. I was going to purchase Manor Club platinum week for $7800 and purchase 2500 trust points. Total package would be $30k and would yield a "total" of 5000 points. The added perk with Manor club is that you can convert it to 110,000 MR points every year. You can purchase the Manor Club week alone at first and you would have the option to enroll it in the DC within a year by paying the additional $22k.

My fear is if you buy the package and you go to book a stay and they state you don't have enough "trust" or "legacy" points to complete the reservation. I was told something similar when I was booking my stay at Ocean Watch for next year. They told me I couldn't book OF view because it was all trust points only and I had only legacy points.

 

[hangloose]

I see a few benefits to the above. Am I correct in my thinking?

1. The Marriott resale legacy week purchased, would then gain access to use also within DC? Perhaps one of the only entry ways currently to add a newly purchased week into DC, right?

2. If interested in a DC points purchase also, this would enable you to get them much cheaper than Marriott's current ~$10-11 pricing?

3. The combo would perhaps yield more DC pts between both versus a direct DC points purchase?

 

[FractionalTraveler]

I see a few benefits to the above. Am I correct in my thinking?

1. The Marriott resale legacy week purchased, would then gain access to use also within DC? Perhaps one of the only entry ways currently to add a newly purchased week into DC, right?

2. If interested in a DC points purchase also, this would enable you to get them much cheaper than Marriott's current ~$10-11 pricing?

3. The combo would perhaps yield more DC pts between both versus a direct DC points purchase?

1. Yes, but its the legacy week they choose for you not the one you get to pick. Means that if you have no desire to go where the legacy week is located then you would trade in II or DC which is exactly what they want you to do.

2. Yes, if you are really inteested in buying the Trust Points. These are basically disposable since you would have to give them away to exit.

3. Yes, of course more weeks and points adds up to more MF as well.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening

Fractional...

this is not true...the program is open to any Legacy resale week in stock on the MVCD resale website !!! My partner picked up a plat HHI Barony Oceanfront, generated 5K legacy points + 5K trust...generated over 10K points (including a deed to the HHI week) for under $70K + a take of 350,000 MR points...

This program applies to the Mountainside Platinum and the silver Ocean Pointe, as long as it is in the resale program!!!!

 

[csalter2]

Only if you need them..

I wrote about this bundling a few weeks ago here on TUG. This is actually a good deal if you really, really want more points to travel. The deal that I still have on the table is good until Sept. 5th like the one mentioned here, but my cost per point would be 5.90 and I would be at Premier status.

I would caution folks to be careful in pursuing this. Be sure you will be traveling as much as the points you will have responsibility for. Also, understand the maintenance fees you will have to pay every year. Recognize you will be paying those fees forever and that they will continue to increase forever every year.

 

[FractionalTraveler]

good evening

Fractional...

this is not true...the program is open to any Legacy resale week in stock on the MVCD resale website !!! My partner picked up a plat HHI Barony Oceanfront, generated 5K legacy points + 5K trust...generated over 10K points (including a deed to the HHI week) for under $70K + a take of 350,000 MR points...

This program applies to the Mountainside Platinum and the silver Ocean Pointe, as long as it is in the resale program!!!!

Puck, that is exactly the point I was trying to make. It’s not any legacy re-sale week on the market. It’s only the ones listed on the MVCI resale website.

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/buy-weeks.shtml

The cost of these weeks on average is higher than resale weeks on the open market because owners know that Marriott will take 40% from the transaction.

I don't think your partner got a good deal at all. Your partner purchased what Marriott offered not what your partner probably really wanted. If your partner's goal was X number of days of vacations at MVCI properties, then there are many more cost effective ways to get that at a fraction of the $70K investment that was made.

This is a very cleaver sales/marketing technique. Bundling!

This happens to me all the time with my cars. I want the Bluetooth hands free feature in my car for safety but the only way the dealer will sell it to me is bundled in a $3,000 Technology or Premium package. Why? This is where they make the most profit!

Same thing with cell phone carriers and Cable/SAT providers. Bundling is the way to get customers to spend more than they really need or want.

Marriott in essence is doing the same thing. First they restrict enrollment of the legacy weeks in the DC and then they say 2 years later, oh yes you can now enroll that week as long as it’s bundled with a much more expensive minimum Trust points purchase that has much higher MF.

This serves a dual purpose.

(1) It maximizes their profit on the bundle since their true cost of the product is minimal.
(2) It gets you to buy into a more expensive Trust Points purchase that you may not have really wanted in the first place.

I have to hand it to them. They do have very good sales/marketing folks!

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning....

My partner got exactly what he wanted... He wanted a HHI summer oceanfront week and also wanted to be a point player!! He snagged Barony OF summer and has a point package of over 10K points (1/2 Legacy 1/2 Trust) My partner loves summer beach but doesnt want to be locked into II and 7 day stays...

He has booked his 2013 HHI week for July occupancy and has used the 5000 Trust points for a spring break Lakeshore stay with his famiy and used the rest towards our Ritz Carlton Vail trip in February...

Yes, he paid more for the HHI week than thru traditional resale market, but he has the both of all the time share world. His total MF's for the package about $3300 less than the $4200 if he had just purchased Trust points (10K). This package came at about $6.90/pt.

He also snagged about 350,000 MR points.... with travel packages...this could snag a value of close to $5K ( 4 FC plane tix) perhaps 4 coach to Europe...when combined with the 1,000,000 pts he already has...

Being a point player, really helps him because we have a consortium in our practice of 4 current DC members... we can pool our resources just as we did when we combined for a 2 and 3 bedroom at Ritz Carlton Vail next February!!!

I believe (as u said) that Trust pts> Legacy pts but only slightly....

bottom line, after explaining to him all of the options my partner made a decision and he is happy!!!!

 

[FractionalTraveler]

good morning....

My partner got exactly what he wanted... He wanted a HHI summer oceanfront week and also wanted to be a point player!! He snagged Barony OF summer and has a point package of over 10K points (1/2 Legacy 1/2 Trust) My partner loves summer beach but doesnt want to be locked into II and 7 day stays...

He has booked his 2013 HHI week for July occupancy and has used the 5000 Trust points for a spring break Lakeshore stay with his famiy and used the rest towards our Ritz Carlton Vail trip in February...

Yes, he paid more for the HHI week than thru traditional resale market, but he has the both of all the time share world. His total MF's for the package about $3300 less than the $4200 if he had just purchased Trust points (10K). This package came at about $6.90/pt.

He also snagged about 350,000 MR points.... with travel packages...this could snag a value of close to $5K ( 4 FC plane tix) perhaps 4 coach to Europe...when combined with the 1,000,000 pts he already has...

Being a point player, really helps him because we have a consortium in our practice of 4 current DC members... we can pool our resources just as we did when we combined for a 2 and 3 bedroom at Ritz Carlton Vail next February!!!

I believe (as u said) that Trust pts> Legacy pts but only slightly....

bottom line, after explaining to him all of the options my partner made a decision and he is happy!!!!

Puck, I find the comments in bold interesting.

What if we Croudsourced a specific property to manipulate the availability during a peak time for a defined set of activities and owners?

Now that sounds like fun....

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning...

missing the point of the previous post....

We have a bunch of partners that want to go on a ski trip 3 of them are Dc members... the other 2 put their points in my acct and I made the reservation!!! seems pretty straight forward and within the rules!!!!

just a powerful application of points... if all of us just had a one bedroom somewhere we could never have done this with II... we also beat the "reverse skim" as it costs less then the cost of a 1 bedroom to upgrade a 2 bedroom into a 3!!!!

just sayin...

 

[hangloose]

Excellent comments back. And as I expected.

Legacy resale can only be from the Marriott resale listings.

Questions

1. Is there a DC point minimum for combo on this type of package? Or is it still near the 1500 minimum?

2. Is there any room for negotiation on the Marriott legacy resale price? Aren't those re-sale weeks other Marriott owners have asked Marriott to sell, thus perhaps opening negotiation of the selling Marriott owner is interested?

 

[FractionalTraveler]

Excellent comments back. And as I expected.

Legacy resale can only be from the Marriott resale listings.

Questions

1. Is there a DC point minimum for combo on this type of package? Or is it still near the 1500 minimum?

2. Is there any room for negotiation on the Marriott legacy resale price? Aren't those re-sale weeks other Marriott owners have asked Marriott to sell, thus perhaps opening negotiation of the selling Marriott owner is interested?

Yes, I believe you are right on.

1. The minimum Trust points purchase right now seems to be 1500 points but 1000 is available as well. What is interesting is with a Bundle that minimum jumps around depending on the legacy week that is being considered for bundling. In other words, they will not tell you up front how many Trust points you will be required to purchase until you tell them the legacy week you are interested in. That is why I call this the "Venus Fly Trap" of Marriott sales/marketing.

Their re-sale dept. was virtually pronounced DEAD or dormant 2 years ago. Now they have added another crafty tool to their arsenal to revive the resale business on their website.

This is exactly what happens to folks who walk into a car dealership with a trade-in. The value of the trade ultimately depends not on any Kelly bluebook figure but what new car purchase price is negotiated. Same used car salesman tactics.

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon....

Fractional...

Let me take another stab at this....

What would be your recommendation for entry into the MVCD program for a newby that wants to be involved in points????

a purchase of just resale weeks doesn't accomplish this
a purchase of just isolated trust points is mighty pricey
the bundle plan???
nothing at all..don't play in points???

despite reports to contrary... I do believe II inventory especially for platinum trades will decline... MVCD is basing their whole sales strategy on it...

what would be your advice for a new customer that wants to truly timeshare and trade to different places...

the answer is easy if the customer only wants to occupy most of time at home resort..then it is easily #1

 

[GregT]

good afternoon....

Fractional...

Let me take another stab at this....

What would be your recommendation for entry into the MVCD program for a newby that wants to be involved in points????

a purchase of just resale weeks doesn't accomplish this
a purchase of just isolated trust points is mighty pricey
the bundle plan???
nothing at all..don't play in points???

despite reports to contrary... I do believe II inventory especially for platinum trades will decline... MVCD is basing their whole sales strategy on it...

what would be your advice for a new customer that wants to truly timeshare and trade to different places...

the answer is easy if the customer only wants to occupy most of time at home resort..then it is easily #1

Puck,

I know you posed the question to FT, but I'd like to take a stab at it.

I would no longer encourage someone to focus solely on Marriott -- unless they are interested primarily in off-season travel. I think (for prime season travel) that, unless you want to own the prime week, mini-systems are the best way to ensure access, and Marriott's mini-system is closed to resale buyers. Other systems have opportunities for the resale buyer.

If someone wanted to reliably go to Maui, I'd tell them to buy a Starwood, and use StarOptions to visit Westin Kaanapali. They can buy a 2BR Every Year for $15K, and pay $1,400 in MFs, and be pretty confident that they will be able to book Maui 8 months out, even in July.

If they don't need to go in July/August and are happy with shoulder, they can buy a cheap Starwood trader (they are basically free) and book into one of the II bulk banks into Maui. The Starwood preference is equally powerful to the Marriott preference, and Starwood is, at the moment, still doing bulk banks into Westin Maui, Westin Princeville, Harborside at Atlantis, basically all their properties except Westin St. John.

Same point for Oahu -- but it requires owning HGVC.

Marriott has really changed the landscape on us -- or more specifically -- future resale customers of Marriott. The most encouraging thing I have seen in Marriott/II in the last six months was that Jim Dunn still traded into summer Hilton Head -- I thought for sure Marriott was stocking those prime summer HHI weeks, but Jim traded in.

So....tough choice for the future resale buyer. If they are content with off-season travel, Marriott and II still have promise for them. But other than that, I'd think about different systems.

Best,

Greg

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon...

#1 my last post was in the wrongthread oops...

#2 yes, I forgot a very viable option....

..consider another points based system

I believe my partner has been "marriottized" by me. Having the come to work for the last 8 yrs, hear my stories and look at my pictures!!!!

 

[mjm1]

Puck,

I know you posed the question to FT, but I'd like to take a stab at it.

I would no longer encourage someone to focus solely on Marriott -- unless they are interested primarily in off-season travel. I think (for prime season travel) that, unless you want to own the prime week, mini-systems are the best way to ensure access, and Marriott's mini-system is closed to resale buyers. Other systems have opportunities for the resale buyer.

If someone wanted to reliably go to Maui, I'd tell them to buy a Starwood, and use StarOptions to visit Westin Kaanapali. They can buy a 2BR Every Year for $15K, and pay $1,400 in MFs, and be pretty confident that they will be able to book Maui 8 months out, even in July.

If they don't need to go in July/August and are happy with shoulder, they can buy a cheap Starwood trader (they are basically free) and book into one of the II bulk banks into Maui. The Starwood preference is equally powerful to the Marriott preference, and Starwood is, at the moment, still doing bulk banks into Westin Maui, Westin Princeville, Harborside at Atlantis, basically all their properties except Westin St. John.

Same point for Oahu -- but it requires owning HGVC.

Marriott has really changed the landscape on us -- or more specifically -- future resale customers of Marriott. The most encouraging thing I have seen in Marriott/II in the last six months was that Jim Dunn still traded into summer Hilton Head -- I thought for sure Marriott was stocking those prime summer HHI weeks, but Jim traded in.

So....tough choice for the future resale buyer. If they are content with off-season travel, Marriott and II still have promise for them. But other than that, I'd think about different systems.

Best,

Greg

Greg, nice summary and comments. We agree with you completely.

Mike

 

[puckmanfl]

good afternoon...

So the general consensus here is that MVCD as it currently exists is not an effective program for the new entry customer...that wants to trade and explore plat high demand areas...

a purchase of resale weeks is a good entry point for the customer that follows the TUG dogma of buying where they want to travel 2/3 years and occasionally trade...

Actually, it is hard to disagree with this...

I find the isolated purchase of Trust points not cost effective, but I felt the bundling plan wasn't a bad compromise point of entry!!!

 

[Quadmaniac]

good afternoon...

So the general consensus here is that MVCD as it currently exists is not an effective program for the new entry customer...that wants to trade and explore plat high demand areas...

a purchase of resale weeks is a good entry point for the customer that follows the TUG dogma of buying where they want to travel 2/3 years and occasionally trade...

Actually, it is hard to disagree with this...

I find the isolated purchase of Trust points not cost effective, but I felt the bundling plan wasn't a bad compromise point of entry!!!

I'm not sure you can consider it a not so bad point of entry at $70K. You were saying your MF was $3400.

I looked up RC and it is 13225 points for February in a 3 BR. Assuming your partners purchased at the same level, to get this reservation, your cost in MF would be around $4500 at a cost of say $93K (10K purchase x 1.3 to get enough to book)

If you rented DC points at $0.50 pp, your cost for your trip would be $6600, an additional $2100 per year. Assuming no increase in MF, it would take 44 trips for you to be break even and you would have no commitment to a long term obligation. This is not taking into consideration any appreciation of the $93K over time it takes to make 44 trips to RC.

At the end of the day it is your money and if you find value in what you paid that is great, but in terms of the points arena, buying in any bundle is not cost effective.

It would have been better to buy a couple of resale Marriott weeks for $1000 each to trade for other weeks you might want and rent the points needed for your big Vail trip whenever you want to go.

 

[puckmanfl]

good evening....

Quad... this isn't for me... I have 4 developer weeks purchased in 2004, 2006 which net 13,866 Legacy points... I am just describing a combo/bundled opackage my partner just purchased where he gets over 10k pts and a barony OF plat for $70K... less than $7/pt...

 

[siberiavol]

I think quadmaniacs's argument is quite persuasive. It is the approach I would now take if I were a newbie. I think most new buyers wouldn't take that approach because there would be a "feeling of uncertainty" about trades and renting.

It is difficult for many of us who migrated from developer purchases to resale and perhaps to renting to remember how secure we felt at the time of our purchase from Marriott .A lot of time on TUG helped many of us take another approach which proved much cheaper. The tuggers are the salesmen so to speak for renting and resale. Most people never hear our pitch.

I spent all most thirty years in the investment area. There is perceived risk and real risk. Buying from the developer seems to offer certainty.Few thought prices would plunge and maintenance fees would go up at a lot faster rate than inflation.Quad's approach would feel risky because there are so many unknowns but has less real risk in my opinion if cost is important at all.

 

[puckmanfl]

good morning....

Let me try this one again....

Yes, the best point of entry is the purchase of some resale weeks. However, some people need and want to play in points....Some folks can't be locked into weeks and the uncertainty of II trades....

The bundled package of 10K pts (1/2 legacy 1/2 trust) is mighty proicey but it is a much better deal thanthe staight up purchase of 10K pts for over $100K...

As a 4 week Legacy owner of some nice stuff , I have the best of all of the worlds... The bundled plan is the closest a newbie can come to matching what I have...

Yes... If I ever felt a need to expand my portfolio..it would be a resale week at a place I wanted to go to...

This thread is abour entry point for newbies... neewbies that go resale deeded weeks cannot enroll in DC thus cannot rent points...

 

[jont]

good morning....

Let me try this one again....

Yes, the best point of entry is the purchase of some resale weeks. However, some people need and want to play in points....Some folks can't be locked into weeks and the uncertainty of II trades....

The bundled package of 10K pts (1/2 legacy 1/2 trust) is mighty proicey but it is a much better deal thanthe staight up purchase of 10K pts for over $100K...

As a 4 week Legacy owner of some nice stuff , I have the best of all of the worlds... The bundled plan is the closest a newbie can come to matching what I have...

Yes... If I ever felt a need to expand my portfolio..it would be a resale week at a place I wanted to go to...

This thread is abour entry point for newbies... neewbies that go resale deeded weeks cannot enroll in DC thus cannot rent points...

Puck
I agree with you, this is a viable option for those who want to play the points game. Right now, Marriott has effectively shut the points door for those looking for a cheap way in. ie: ebay resale weeks. Some of us remain hopeful it will open up again someday, but i'm not holding my breath.
A GO platinum purchase is a good one, even at marriott resale prices, With the trust points your partner has a lot of good options, esp with the ability to rent points amongst yourselves.
My partner at work owns several Marriotts and I finally convinced him to enroll those weeks. We now both have a first option go to person for points rental.
IMHO Seems like a win/win for your partner.