Cancellation disappeared in 3 seconds

[happyhopian]

We are going to Bonnet for my daughter's birthday and I was holding two rooms but the grandparents backed out so I was in the process of cancelling their reservation but mistakenly canceled 3 night of my stay by mistake (different size room). I realized what I did just as I hit the confirm key (you know that feeling of OOOPS). I pressed my favorite to the bonnet search screen and changed the date pressed enter (which couldn't have been more than 3-10 seconds) and it was gone. I kept looking for 30 minutes consistently and nothing April 2-5th gone.

My fault ALL my fault and I'm not here whining about my mistakes, but I'm here because it gets back to that point that there is something fishy going on with mass booking and professionals that can master the system and while I understand they can have people hired to search all the time there is no one rapid searching for exactly 3 days on April 2nd on some random Sunday at 8:20pm eastern.

This is not the first time this has happened to me and it has been discussed on here a lot but I am now convinced that someone has figured out how to monitor avails and cancellations. On another not I am hoping that we can work something out else I just cost my daughter her birthday trip.

 

[bogey21]

Could be Wyndham taking the days for their own use. I am not a Wyndham owner but have been reading the Cancel/Rebook posts with interest. My thought is if Wyndham wanted to stop this (I acknowledge they may not) that a simple thing to do would be to delay making cancelled reservations available for a period of time. This could be randomized. Some in one hour, some in two hours, some the next day, etc. Just a thought.

George

 

[happyhopian]

I agree, while that would damage the cancel/rebook folks it would certainly open up the field for everyone else. The issue has become the mega renters (and I'm not talking about Ron/Rob). I just don't understand how these folks are in Wyndham's best interest they are not buying developer points.

 

[am1]

That has been a very hard week to get. If a bot grabbed it you would have seen it in availability, tried to grab it but by then it would be gone. If you did not see it that means either it never came back or it took too long to get to the search page. In this case I do not think a bot grabbed it.

Having the inventory come back randomly would not stop the bots. That is the problem. Not people searching. Everyone has priorities ands pays the same fees to use the system.

 

[happyhopian]

Thanks AM but I disagree. I talked with Wyndham when this happened back in November. I spoke with three people. VP of operations, a manager in owner care and the guest service manager at Bonnet Creek. All three confirmed that they DO NOT recapture inventory when cancelled. The guest services informed me that they always keep 1-2 of each room type free for problems so they never load everything in inventory and I was told that only loaded inventory gets booked and it can never book more than what is available and if they did do that by accident or forgetting to remove a room when it when down for rehab, they would have no way to tell they system to recapture a room if and when it was cancelled. I specifically asked if they could set room inventory to something like -1 and it a cancel came up the computer would take it and all three said no. I am just convinced that there is something more than bots, scripts or humans randomly searching and I am not a proponent for a hold on cancel or randomization of replacement. I am not saying that the randomization or delay reposing would help, I am not sure it would but having all the LARGE professional competing with small mom/pop and actual owners is going to be a conflict and in my opinion it is a detriment to regular owners who cannot afford to pay someone to hack code or hire button pushers to keep searching. As I said in my previous post, I just don't see how mega renters help Wyndham at the detriment to their owners.

 

[lprstn]

The computer system with Wyndham takes hours to update newly added back inventory. Sometimes if you check the morning after it will show up again.

 

[jebloomquist]

Yesterday, Sunday, the same thing happened to me. I accidentally cancelled a Bonnet Creek 4 night reservation for March 17th, and it never reappeared even for a few seconds.

I started looking seconds after the cancellation, and for quite some time there after, but nothing appeared.

Is it due to overbooking, a bot, or Wyndham grabbing cancellation? I don't know. All I know is that is seems to be happening quite frequently now, where it was an infrequent occurrence before.

Jim

 

[csxjohn]

The guest services informed me that they always keep 1-2 of each room type free for problems

Did you call and tell them of your mistake and ask for one of the rooms they hold back for problems?

 

[am1]

Thanks AM but I disagree. I talked with Wyndham when this happened back in November. I spoke with three people. VP of operations, a manager in owner care and the guest service manager at Bonnet Creek. All three confirmed that they DO NOT recapture inventory when cancelled. The guest services informed me that they always keep 1-2 of each room type free for problems so they never load everything in inventory and I was told that only loaded inventory gets booked and it can never book more than what is available and if they did do that by accident or forgetting to remove a room when it when down for rehab, they would have no way to tell they system to recapture a room if and when it was cancelled. I specifically asked if they could set room inventory to something like -1 and it a cancel came up the computer would take it and all three said no. I am just convinced that there is something more than bots, scripts or humans randomly searching and I am not a proponent for a hold on cancel or randomization of replacement. I am not saying that the randomization or delay reposing would help, I am not sure it would but having all the LARGE professional competing with small mom/pop and actual owners is going to be a conflict and in my opinion it is a detriment to regular owners who cannot afford to pay someone to hack code or hire button pushers to keep searching. As I said in my previous post, I just don't see how mega renters help Wyndham at the detriment to their owners.

All last fall nothing was coming back for Bonnet Creek as they decided to renovate Tower 5 but never withheld the inventory at the 10 month window. This year they have done that for Tower 6. In this case the inventory never came back at all. With a bot it comes back for a split second.

Wyndham needs to secure their website so bots cannot function. The first step would be from them to acknowledge that it happens. Given the proper tools I could solve it very easily.

 

[bnoble]

Given the proper tools I could solve it very easily.

I'll take that bet.

 

[am1]

I'll take that bet.

Get Wyndham to sign off on it and I will know which accounts are involved as soon as a resort updates its confirmations.

 

[ronparise]

If its a bot, its doing nothing but duplicating exactly what we do when we search and make a reservation. It has to see the availability before it hits the "select" button. When we see the availability after canceling, the bot sees it too, but in the split second it takes us to react and hit "select" the bot has done its work and is searching again

At least thats what I think

Bonnet Creek is not where I choose to make my reservations and do my rentals, but if it was, Easter weekend would be a good weekend to rent, I think. and if I had a bot at my disposal I might be looking for that weekend.

There are a number of rental companies and big points management companies and even some individuals that work in Orlando. It wouldnt surprise me to learn some of them pay folks to search in the 60 day window. or that some of them have bots at their disposal.

You didnt stand a chance. It wasnt just some random sunday at 8:30. The website was open for reservations and it was within the 60 days from Easter weekend

 

[bnoble]

There are a number of rental companies and big points management companies and even some individuals that work in Orlando. It wouldnt surprise me to learn some of them pay folks to search in the 60 day window. or that some of them have bots at their disposal.

Heck, I would do it via mechanical turk.
https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome

 

[happyhopian]

I need to correct something I said. I called owner care this morning and got all the way to someone with inventory control on a call with a OC manager (yes I was hot). They explained that in fact they DO recapture inventory when they have rooms go out, for example when they are fully booked and they know they have issues with rooms reported as out of commission. This is NOT what I have been told on several instances in the past and so I can only say I take this with a grain of salt but the person they had on the phone with us was VERY knowledgeable and was able to look at things online quoting about how much inventory they had and assignments that I didn't understand. They gave me some suggestions on what to do and I'll take their advice. They also said that there are people who have learned to work the system and they confirmed that while they have preventive measures there are people who could figure out how to script a bot to work past their measures though he assured me they are always trying to crack down on those things when they happen.

Ron - Yes! I agree with everything you said (Including that I had no chance and inferring it was my fault you are absolutely right!) but anyone who operates an automated way of doing this should be thrown out and blocked from future Wyndham access IMHO. Hiring a bunch of people to press buttons - well that is their expense and it will be factored in their rental cost/competitiveness but Wyndham has an ethical obligation to ensure that they do not own a system which affords any "technical advantage" to anyone else regardless of their investment or monetary wealth. An automated hack that subverts system security rendering someone an advantage - should not be acceptable and Wyndham should make examples of anyone who does.

 

[happyhopian]

Heck, I would do it via mechanical turk.
https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome

Interesting resource for other reasons. Thank you

 

[am1]

Ron - Yes! I agree with everything you said (Including that I had no chance and inferring it was my fault you are absolutely right!) but anyone who operates an automated way of doing this should be thrown out and blocked from future Wyndham access IMHO. Hiring a bunch of people to press buttons - well that is their expense and it will be factored in their rental cost/competitiveness but Wyndham has an ethical obligation to ensure that they do not own a system which affords any "technical advantage" to anyone else regardless of their investment or monetary wealth. An automated hack that subverts system security rendering someone an advantage - should not be acceptable and Wyndham should make examples of anyone who does.

They have had since before Christmas to try something new but have not done anything. What is needed is everyone calling and letting them know their concern. What would really hurt them is if people stopped buying but those people have no idea about most of the things going on let alone other owners using bots.

 

[ronparise]

I need to correct something I said. I called owner care this morning and got all the way to someone with inventory control on a call with a OC manager (yes I was hot). They explained that in fact they DO recapture inventory when they have rooms go out, for example when they are fully booked and they know they have issues with rooms reported as out of commission. This is NOT what I have been told on several instances in the past and so I can only say I take this with a grain of salt but the person they had on the phone with us was VERY knowledgeable and was able to look at things online quoting about how much inventory they had and assignments that I didn't understand. They gave me some suggestions on what to do and I'll take their advice. They also said that there are people who have learned to work the system and they confirmed that while they have preventive measures there are people who could figure out how to script a bot to work past their measures though he assured me they are always trying to crack down on those things when they happen.

Ron - Yes! I agree with everything you said (Including that I had no chance and inferring it was my fault you are absolutely right!) but anyone who operates an automated way of doing this should be thrown out and blocked from future Wyndham access IMHO. Hiring a bunch of people to press buttons - well that is their expense and it will be factored in their rental cost/competitiveness but Wyndham has an ethical obligation to ensure that they do not own a system which affords any "technical advantage" to anyone else regardless of their investment or monetary wealth. An automated hack that subverts system security rendering someone an advantage - should not be acceptable and Wyndham should make examples of anyone who does.

I didn't mean to imply that anything was your fault. And I agree you are quite right. If someone is gaming the system; that ain't right. My point is that there are folks working the system.(and perhaps gaming it) so when someone like me or you makes a mistake there is little chance of recovery

Sorry I wasn't clear

 

[Bigrob]

I have heard another story about issues at Bonnet Creek... which would add to the reasons people have so much trouble getting their cancelled reservations back. And I do know there are many many people trying to get reservations for that time frame right now...

I have no way of verifying if the information I heard is true, but what I heard does make sense and would explain a lot of what some of us have seen at Bonnet Creek. Supposedly this particular issue has been addressed, but the fact remains that it is such a popular resort for rentals that it draws a lot of attention from the big boys who make a very large percentage of the rentals from Bonnet Creek.

I am sorry this happened to you... several of us have been stung by this in the past, but it seems even worse in your case since it was an accident and was for personal use. I hope you get lucky and get it back.

 

[Passepartout]

I' don't know that anyone is 'gaming the system' or any skullduggery is going on. The explanation for a cancellation's immediately being snapped up can be simply that someone, somewhere, had an Ongoing Search for the size/week/location that the OP cancelled (in effect deposited) and the reservation computer 'saw it' and fulfilled the OGS. It's just that simple.

It pays to make sure before you hit the 'send' button.

Jim

 

[tschwa2]

Wyndham doesn't have an OGS or waitlist in their system.

 

[spackler]

Wyndham doesn't have an OGS or waitlist in their system.

Well, they should. This repeated hunt-and-click game they make owners play gets old.

 

[Passepartout]

Wyndham doesn't have an OGS or waitlist in their system.

Well, SOMEBODY either got VERY lucky or SOMEBODY has a way to see suddenly available units to book. In other words, I tend to disagree with your premise.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Well, SOMEBODY either got VERY lucky or SOMEBODY has a way to see suddenly available units to book. In other words, I tend to disagree with your premise.

And those would be the "bots" mentioned several times in this thread.

 

[Rent_Share]

Well, they should. This repeated hunt-and-click game they make owners play gets old.

The mega renters don't want that

 

[ronparise]

The mega renters don't want that

which of course is why its likely to happen