email just received - Important Updates to Your CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Program Guidelines

[Jan M.]

Just called title services. Anyone added to the title will be fully responsible for the account as an owner.

They charge $299 to change title, but if the title is a deeded unit then one must do the work to get the title changed and recorded before paying the $299 change fee with title services. It's easier on a Club Wyndham Access account which doesn't have a recorded deed and all needed work can be done by Wyndham to add the names.

One must include the name, birthdate, and address. So Ron, in your list of 10 variations of your name, did you have to give 10 different birth dates and 10 addresses?

Do you by any chance know if you have more than one deed or contract in your account and were to add a family member to just one of them, perhaps the smallest one, if that would make that person responsible for all the deeds and/or contracts in the account even if their name wasn't on them? I can't see how they would be liable on anything their name wasn't on. Doesn't mean I'm right, just that I can't see it.

 

[Lita]

But as much as I sympathize I do understand that owners who tie up as many as 10 units at the favored resorts in prime weeks are seen by Wyndham as abusing the system and hurting other owners, even other VIP owners. I'm guessing that Wyndham has very little sympathy and one of the big reasons is that if you are tying up 6-10 units they most likely see you as a mega rental or points manager rather than an individual planning a family vacation. Another reason is that they see you as hoarding reservation to get the discount and free upgrades when those windows open which they consider manipulating the inventory to your advantage instead of booking or upgrading what is available at that time which is how the system was intended to work if you read the directory as Ron and others have pointed out more than once. Your VIP benefits only entitle you to the discounts and upgrades on what is available in those windows. If you are hoarding reservations to manipulate the system to your benefit, no matter what the sales people have coached each and every one of us to do, Wyndham has the written guidelines on their side to say that is abusing your VIP benefits. BTW I don't like it one bit more than any other VIP owner but I'm smart enough to understand that Wyndham has the right to enforce those guidelines in any way they fit. They also have an obligation not to allow VIP owners to take unfair advantage they were never intended to have over the non VIP owners.

For every owner who ties up multiple units for family members who "might want to go", sometimes holding them clear down to the 15 day cancellation window, there are probably 10 if not 20 or more owners and point managers who rent doing the same thing. .

So you no longer think it is important for family vacations to be a selling point for Wyndham ownership?

I can guarantee you the mega renters will have ways around this new 48-hour guest pass rule. It's only the owners who follow the rules and don't play games with family ownership names that will be screwed.

 

[55plus]

Wyndham now charges $299 to make a change. Other costs would be having the deed changed and filed in the county when the timeshare is located. Wyndham would make a change unless the deed reflects a change.

 

[Lita]

Do you by any chance know if you have more than one deed or contract in your account and were to add a family member to just one of them, perhaps the smallest one, if that would make that person responsible for all the deeds and/or contracts in the account even if their name wasn't on them? I can't see how they would be liable on anything their name wasn't on. Doesn't mean I'm right, just that I can't see it.

My understanding is you only need to add the person to one of the deeds, but if you trust Wyndham not to try to hold them liable on the rest of the membership, which they had rights to use as a co-owner, you may be naive.

 

[ronparise]

Just called title services. Anyone added to the title will be fully responsible for the account as an owner.

They charge $299 to change title, but if the title is a deeded unit then one must do the work to get the title changed and recorded before paying the $299 change fee with title services. It's easier on a Club Wyndham Access account which doesn't have a recorded deed and all needed work can be done by Wyndham to add the names.

One must include the name, birthdate, and address. So Ron, in your list of 10 variations of your name, did you have to give 10 different birth dates and 10 addresses?

No its all me,

They may drill down to figure that out, but they havent yet. and if they do, who cares.. I have a VIP account with 30 guest confirms

I understand that wyndham says anyone on the account is responsible for the maintenance fees, but I would bet that they will have an issue collecting on anything that my kid dosent own.. It dosent matter because you are right I wouldnt want to put my kids through the hassle after Im gone.

Bottom line is that there has been a change, you can either fight it or adapt to it... My preferred way, and my advice is to adapt

 

[wjappraise]

The more things change; The more they stay the same

for any one that wants a little historical perspective I suggest you search TUG for Kendra Bowers. I was up way past my bedtime reading her posts after the last big set of anti megarenter changes. You could also read Bill Spearmans article in "Timesharing Today http://www.tstoday.com/members/magazine/issue104/wyndham comments.pdf



As near as I can piece it together, the short story is that they were both megarenters leading up to the changes Wyndham made in 2009. Transaction fees were introduced, Guest fees were introduced at $29 then almost immediately raised to $99, and no more owner to owner transfer of points

Owners were outraged and some, including both Bowers and Spearman sued Wyndham.. Secondary market prices dropped to zero. some mega renters couldnt adapt and dropped out, rumor has it that Kendra got bought out (some would say got paid off) and the Spearman suit continues... Life goes on

So what what else happened.. Secondary market prices went to zero (maybe because of the rule changes, maybe because of the great recession) Some new owners saw opportunity and built even bigger megarenting businesses, and we saw the rise of the points managers.

and now Wyndham has introduced another round of changes. My guess is that some of us will sue, and some be sued, and some will sell out but as before there will be some that see opportunity in the chaos and figure out how to turn that opportunity into success.

Exactly. The points managers and large scale renters will thrive. The Platinum owners who use their large amount of points for family reunions will be hurt the most.


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[Jan M.]

So you no longer think it is important for family vacations to be a selling point for Wyndham ownership?

I can guarantee you the mega renters will have ways around this new 48-hour guest pass rule. It's only the owners who follow the rules and don't play games with family ownership names that will be screwed.

I never said I liked the changes, just that I could see why they are going to happen. I think that probably 95%, if not more, of the owners will be just fine in being able to plan their family vacations. And there is an excellent chance that with these changes it will be easier for them to do that too.

As Ron has pointed out the mega renters and point managers will adapt and change by using the free guest certificates and pay for any others they need just as you will have to do. Also don't forget that Ron was suspended and reached a resolution with Wyndham that resulted in him managing other people's accounts rather than perhaps his own going forward. Don't you think things like that contributed to Wyndham basically kicking him out?

The only way I can figure out that Ron did what he did with the names is because he bought a huge number of deeds and contracts as he has told us in other threads and posts. He put different variations off his name on some of them. Any time you add an owner or transfer/buy a deed you always have to send a copy of your driver's license so I don't know how it would be possible to have variations of your own name on the same deed, just different deeds. There is not a single thing stopping you from taking over one of those deeds that owners are giving away, they are even paying the closing costs, and adding a variation of your own name and/or several family members to that deed. That would be the a cheaper solution.

As someone told me a few years back when I was very upset about something with Wyndham. You have two choices. 1. Put aside your "mad", be smart enough to accept what is not going to change and enjoy your stays at the resorts for hopefully many years to come. 2. Give up your ownership as your discontent will eat at you and you will spread your dissatisfaction to everyone traveling with you and the other owners you will encounter on their vacations as you will feel the need to share your story with them spoiling everyone's vacations.

 

[antjmar]

Just called title services. Anyone added to the title will be fully responsible for the account as an owner.

They charge $299 to change title, but if the title is a deeded unit then one must do the work to get the title changed and recorded before paying the $299 change fee with title services. It's easier on a Club Wyndham Access account which doesn't have a recorded deed and all needed work can be done by Wyndham to add the names.

One must include the name, birthdate, and address. So Ron, in your list of 10 variations of your name, did you have to give 10 different birth dates and 10 addresses?

Has anyone use the "Tribute program" to add (not transfer) family? It supposed to be FREE!!!


Ovation by Wyndham offers simple, safe and secure options to owners seeking to exit their timeshare. Tribute by Wyndham is the latest option available through this award-winning program.

This option enables qualified owners to transfer deeded and non-deeded contracts to a family member. Tribute by Wyndham ensures an owner’s legacy of vacation memories will continue on, allowing others to create travel traditions and experience all of the benefits of vacation ownership.

As with any exit option offered through Ovation by Wyndham, there are no fees, hidden costs or additional purchases required to participate in Tribute by Wyndham.

To learn more about Ovation by Wyndham, visit your owner website or call 855-312-9040 to speak with an Ovation by Wyndham representative.

 

[ronparise]

As Ron has pointed out the mega renters and point managers will adapt and change by using the free guest certificates and pay for any others they need just as you will have to do.

theres a second part to what Ive said... They will either adapt or they will go away

 

[Iggyearl]

Ron's post about "change" made me reflect on this video from 8 YEARS ago. This guy was very eloquent in his complaint about changes to the system. I don't know if he stayed or moved on. But Wyndham stock is up today and they just announced good earnings.

 

[scootr5]

Has anyone use the "Tribute program" to add (not transfer) family? It supposed to be FREE!!!


Ovation by Wyndham offers simple, safe and secure options to owners seeking to exit their timeshare. Tribute by Wyndham is the latest option available through this award-winning program.

This option enables qualified owners to transfer deeded and non-deeded contracts to a family member. Tribute by Wyndham ensures an owner’s legacy of vacation memories will continue on, allowing others to create travel traditions and experience all of the benefits of vacation ownership.

As with any exit option offered through Ovation by Wyndham, there are no fees, hidden costs or additional purchases required to participate in Tribute by Wyndham.

To learn more about Ovation by Wyndham, visit your owner website or call 855-312-9040 to speak with an Ovation by Wyndham representative.

Free for "qualified" owners. Who decides if an owner is "qualified"? Wyndham, of course.

 

[uscav8r]

Do you know the cost to add a family member (father) and procedure. At what age can you add your kids?

While you may get the $299 Wyndham transfer fee waived for family members, if you have deeded contracts, you'll need to pay someone to prepare and file the new deed... between $150-350 or so depending on the county where the deed is filed.


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[uscav8r]

But you can only borrow for a reservation with 60 days or a partial day at 10 months. As for banking or pooling for most owners it must be done prior to the start of the year and I think based on all the changes they should change that.

You can borrow for more than 1 day inside the 90-day window (not 60), which defines the Express Reservation Period.


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[uscav8r]

If you have developer and resale points. Do you pay .57 program fee on all points or .57 on developer points and .55 on resale points ?

You will pay that rate for all points.


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[rickandcindy23]

So in a nutshell, how are these changes REALLY going to affect the various levels of ownership? I am curious because I read the email and didn't think much about it, yet here is a long thread about the changes.

I met Kendra Bowers once, talked to her on multiple occasions. I also talked to William Spearman over the phone, way back when guest certificates were no longer unlimited for VIP Plat. When Kendra lost her ability to make a good living as a Wyndham mega renter, she literally lost almost all of her income. Kendra was a reasonable woman who had to give up her Colorado Springs home in the process of losing her income. It was a very nice home in the hills by Manitou Springs, if I remember correctly. Anyway, last I heard, she received a decent settlement from Wyndham and is living in timeshares full time to use her VIP points. She can no longer talk about Wyndham to anyone because she has some rule imposed on her free speech, due to the settlement she received. It's how it is, not something I am slamming Wyndham over.

William Spearman, hmmmm...I thought settled his lawsuit. I talked to him on the phone and he was also a very nice person, but angry about unlimited GC's being taken away. He was disappointed that he couldn't get about 10 owners to join the lawsuit with him. He needed a huge upfront fee for the attorney he selected. I remember thinking it would be better to get about 20-30 people to help pay that fee. But it was a long, long time ago, I would say this is about 9 years back.

I understood that Spearman did settle because he also stopped talking to everyone. If Wyndham decided to give him free guest certificates because his contract promised it, I would be inclined to be quiet as well. I kind of wish we had joined that lawsuit.

 

[bnoble]

maybe because of the rule changes, maybe because of the great recession

I suspect the latter had a lot more to do with it than the former.

 

[ronparise]

So in a nutshell, how are these changes REALLY going to affect the various levels of ownership? I am curious because I read the email and didn't think much about it, yet here is a long thread about the changes.

I met Kendra Bowers once, talked to her on multiple occasions. I also talked to William Spearman over the phone, way back when guest certificates were no longer unlimited for VIP Plat. When Kendra lost her ability to make a good living as a Wyndham mega renter, she literally lost almost all of her income. Kendra was a reasonable woman who had to give up her Colorado Springs home in the process of losing her income. It was a very nice home in the hills by Manitou Springs, if I remember correctly. Anyway, last I heard, she received a decent settlement from Wyndham and is living in timeshares full time to use her VIP points. She can no longer talk about Wyndham to anyone because she has some rule imposed on her free speech, due to the settlement she received. It's how it is, not something I am slamming Wyndham over.

William Spearman, hmmmm...I thought settled his lawsuit. I talked to him on the phone and he was also a very nice person, but angry about unlimited GC's being taken away. He was disappointed that he couldn't get about 10 owners to join the lawsuit with him. He needed a huge upfront fee for the attorney he selected. I remember thinking it would be better to get about 20-30 people to help pay that fee. But it was a long, long time ago, I would say this is about 9 years back.

I understood that Spearman did settle because he also stopped talking to everyone. If Wyndham decided to give him free guest certificates because his contract promised it, I would be inclined to be quiet as well. I kind of wish we had joined that lawsuit.

You are right about spearman. I found something that says they settled in July 2015

My point in bringing these two cases up is that Wyndham has been through this before. In fact the effort to level the playing field or the quest for fairness has been pretty much continuous since 2009.
Angry letters (or even nice letters), phone calls and lawsuits are not likely to change anything.

 

[paxsarah]

Angry letters (or even nice letters), phone calls and lawsuits are not likely to change anything.

I know, but I felt better putting pen to paper (or, toner to paper) and sending it off, knowing someone would probably at least read it before they put it in the circular file. (It was a nice letter, by the way.) Complaining here is cathartic but is even less like to make a difference to Wyndham. But at least I was able to say my piece, that I thought the playing field was flat enough before and now they've made one of the tools I use most often (credit pool) demonstrably less useful.

What I didn't mention to them is that if I can't figure out how best to use Points Deposit with my big odd-year points allotment, maybe I'll just book summer Myrtle Beach units and rent them out. Then I can use the proceeds to vacation when and how I want. I'll probably figure something else out by then, but at least that way I know the points won't go to waste.

 

[dagger1]

While you may get the $299 Wyndham transfer fee waived for family members, if you have deeded contracts, you'll need to pay someone to prepare and file the new deed... between $150-350 or so depending on the county where the deed is filed.


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Dumb question, but do they normally waive the $299 transfer fee for family members, or is this on a case by case basis? CWA contracts only require Wyndham to add names, correct, no new deeds or filing necessary?

 

[seascapemvy]

You can borrow for more than 1 day inside the 90-day window (not 60), which defines the Express Reservation Period.


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Thank you for correcting me. I still think 90 days out isn't enough but its better than 60.

 

[wjappraise]

Has anyone ever had Wyndham reach out to them to get a perspective on a policy change? I keep reading in various successful business models the advisability of using your customers to plan your business direction. It engenders trust and customer loyalty. All of which it seems are in short supply with Wyndham. Just curious if that has ever happened?

 

[breezez]

the guest confirm fee dosen't go to Wyndham

They may not get it directly but in the end they get it especially when they manage the HOA's in many of the resorts, cause they get to charge ridiculous costs to the HOA for services they provide. Take the parking pass scam. On the books they are providing you the guest a service the parking pass while they pressure scam you to go to update. Normally these same people are the at concierge desk after check in. So I bet some of the HOA fees pay for these people.

To me I see it like a lot of charity's take money pay yourselves really well and give a small fraction to the cause people actually paid money for. I personally don't see how having a guest in your unit is 1 cent additional in cost, in fact, it's doing them a favor by providing fresh meat to the sales vultures.

It's not a big deal to me... I have only used one GC since I have owned, but I also understand they are controlling the HOA costs and can raise their costs by any amount they feel the market can bear simply by charging more for their services to the HOA

 

[OutSkiing]

My wife's name is listed 3 different ways in the Owner's dropdown, mine only 1 way. Two of her's would be the same except one is all upper case and the other is upper/lower. I haven't had occasion to test whether the upper/lower really works to hold multiple rooms. I'm sure these names were all applied during various contract purchases.

I can think of one positive change that is likely due to negative owner feedback .. we all know it but nobody points out the positives. It was the elimination of 'canceled points' with their greatly reduced functionality. When that was in place it was dreadful making reservations with ARP and then having to cancel because the nephew had final exams a week later than he thought. Maybe complaints received now will not make a difference immediately, but they may add up to an improvement a year or two down the road.

I want more flexibility in pooling points forward more than once. There is no reason we should have to loose points because of changed plans or inaccurate planning.

Bob

 

[happyhopian]

Just called title services. Anyone added to the title will be fully responsible for the account as an owner.

They charge $299 to change title, but if the title is a deeded unit then one must do the work to get the title changed and recorded before paying the $299 change fee with title services. It's easier on a Club Wyndham Access account which doesn't have a recorded deed and all needed work can be done by Wyndham to add the names.

One must include the name, birthdate, and address. So Ron, in your list of 10 variations of your name, did you have to give 10 different birth dates and 10 addresses?

again - IF they are not family. I just added a family member two months ago on 8 contracts and there was NO fee. Must be immediate family.

 

[happyhopian]

My wife's name is listed 3 different ways in the Owner's dropdown, mine only 1 way. Two of her's would be the same except one is all upper case and the other is upper/lower. I haven't had occasion to test whether the upper/lower really works to hold multiple rooms. I'm sure these names were all applied during various contract purchases.

I can think of one positive change that is likely due to negative owner feedback .. we all know it but nobody points out the positives. It was the elimination of 'canceled points' with their greatly reduced functionality. When that was in place it was dreadful making reservations with ARP and then having to cancel because the nephew had final exams a week later than he thought. Maybe complaints received now will not make a difference immediately, but they may add up to an improvement a year or two down the road.

I want more flexibility in pooling points forward more than once. There is no reason we should have to loose points because of changed plans or inaccurate planning.

Bob

I was tald cancelled points went away because the system couldn't keep up with where they came from and went back to due to another change.

I also have the misspelling problem and either work just fine for me so I have 'extra' people, who are the same people.