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[2/10/17 UPDATE] VSE charging for 3rd party reservation changes! [+Contact Info. for complaints]

Did you send an email to Suzanne Clark protesting the confirmation fee?

  • Yes - I sent an email.

    Votes: 49 86.0%
  • No - I think the fee is fair.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No - the fee doesn't impact me.

    Votes: 8 14.0%

  • Total voters
    57

SMHarman

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I agree in theory, but I'm not sure it's possible to make your 2nd claim -- unless you purposely book a week at a less-desirable resort during a less-desirable season (bad rental strategy) and continue to check availability to ensure you haven't locked out other owners (unrealistic) with the intention of cancelling your reservation and attempted rental if that were to happen (yeah, right).
Fair points.

I have in the past effectively rented points where someone advertised a wanted <45 days for a couple of nights that were still available in SVN.

Morally I could justify at least to myself that I was not undercutting etc as I was providing something others were not selling.
 

DeniseM

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I think the statement on Staroption reservations is worth looking at again. Please note that this statement is only on Staroption reservations.

By definition, a Staroption reservation is a reservation made 0-8 months before check-in, and the confirmation itself lists the number of Staroptions used:
Rental of units reserved using StarOptions (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort) is prohibited

If Starwood/Vistana meant to say that Staroption reservations cannot be rented - period - they should not have included the section in the parenthesis: (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort.)

They should have written: "Rental of units reserved using StarOptions is prohibited."

You can look at it 2 ways:

1) It says that Staroption reservations at your home resort are OK to rent.

2) They meant to say something else, and they worded it poorly.

My guess is that VSE feels that they have a weak legal case if they try to prevent owners from renting Staroption reservations at their home resort, so they prefer to be ambiguous, because it keeps both sides happy. ;)
 

DavidnRobin

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Home Resort reservation is defined.
SO reservation is defined.
Renting of SO reservations is prohibited is stated.

Seems clear...
 

SMHarman

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I think the statement on Staroption reservations is worth looking at again. Please note that this statement is only on Staroption reservations.

By definition, a Staroption reservation is a reservation made 0-8 months before check-in, and the confirmation itself lists the number of Staroptions used:

If Starwood/Vistana meant to say that Staroption reservations cannot be rented - period - they should not have included the section in the parenthesis: (other than a vacation period at your Home Resort.)

They should have written: "Rental of units reserved using StarOptions is prohibited."

You can look at it 2 ways:

1) It says that Staroption reservations at your home resort are OK to rent.

2) They meant to say something else, and they worded it poorly.

My guess is that VSE feels that they have a weak legal case if they try to prevent owners from renting Staroption reservations at their home resort, so they prefer to be ambiguous, because it keeps both sides happy. ;)
It gets ambiguous because say you have 5 home resorts and use all your star options to rent at only one of those resorts.

Now you are renting a SO reservation at your home resort. But you may not be using the star points from that home resort ownership.

So head spinning that Carrie is dizzy
 

okwiater

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Don't overcomplicate it. Suzanne's e-mail was poorly worded, but it's also not the official policy. Officially, you are allowed to rent only a Home Resort Reservation OR a StarOptions reservation when those StarOptions are used to reserve at the resort and in the season from which they were obtained.
 

DeniseM

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1) We aren't discussing Suzanne's email - we are discussing the statement on Staroption Confirmations that has been there for a long time.

2) You and David are not saying the same thing - he is saying that NO Staroption reservations can be rented.
 

SMHarman

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Don't overcomplicate it. Suzanne's e-mail was poorly worded, but it's also not the official policy. Officially, you are allowed to rent only a Home Resort Reservation OR a StarOptions reservation when those StarOptions are used to reserve at the resort and in the season from which they were obtained.
Quite simply with the pick and choose your star options functionally that exists now they can print an line on the bottom of each reservation confirmation now tat says.

You are / are not allowed to commercially rent this reservation.
 

DavidnRobin

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If people are violating the T&Cs of their ownership, to the detriment of other owners, then the behavior is simply wrong. As such, it seems to be an appropriate use of the word "morally," particularly if they engage in this behavior knowingly. This isn't a gray area subject to one's personal feelings or interpretations. People may still choose to do it, but that doesn't make it right.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/morality-definition/
 

DavidnRobin

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1) We aren't discussing Suzanne's email - we are discussing the statement on Staroption Confirmations that has been there for a long time.

2) You and David are not saying the same thing - he is saying that NO Staroption reservations can be rented.

Correct - that is what I am saying for the most part - however, I am saying that renting SOs is prohibited (that is different on whether or not it can be done, or whether 'moral' or not). I do not disagree with Denise that it is poorly written, and also challenging to enforce. I have had direct communication with the SC and her office on this exact topic (interpretation and enforcement, not morality :D )

As mentioned, people seem to be confused on what is a Home Resort reservation (>8-12 months) - for WKORV/N, WPORV, and WKV (and assume others, but not all) this is defined in the CCRs prior to statement about renting SO reservations.

Added - okay... time to quit this conversation. It has little impact on me since I only do name changes on HR reservations (3x per year), and don't rent SOs (whether at my HR or not). Sorry for the folks getting the name change fee. RESIST! ;)
and Congrats! to all involved for making an impact, albeit small.
I emailed that the VSN fee ($140+30) should be reduced because of the fee - good luck with that. :D
 
Last edited:

Dawnwrey

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Just received this email:

This email comes on behalf of Suzanne Clark, Vice President, Owner Services. Thank you for taking the time to share your comments concerning the implementation of a third party guest fee. Your feedback is certainly appreciated. We sincerely apologize for your expressed dissatisfaction and would like to provide additional information to you.


While each resort affiliated with Vistana Signature Network (“VSN”) may have its own rules regarding usage by an owner’s guests, please note that once a VSN member enters the Network Period, your Home Resort rules are no longer applicable to your reservation and your reservation is instead subject to the VSN Rules, including applicable fees. The VSN Rules and Regulations allow the Network Operator to ensure the effective operation of the Network. Owners give up rights provided in their home resort reservation rules when they choose to enter the Network Float Period.


The Third Party Guest Fee is intended to ensure that owners have a fair opportunity to access all VSN Resorts during the Network Period. Our goal is to ensure all owners have the ability to secure a wide range of reservations. There is a correlation between the cost of servicing an increased volume of third party reservation processing (including multiple changes per reservation) which has contributed to the company’s decision to implement a guest fee. Other factors include online development, the industry standard, and support of proper registration procedures.


Please reference the VSN Membership Agreement, specific sections; “Enrollment in the Network”, “Assignment of Resort Reservation Rights” and “Owner Acknowledgments”. Examples of the section language are referenced below:


Enrollment in the Network. Owner will be enrolled as a Network Member and the Network Operator will accept Owner as a Network Member beginning on the first day of the term of this Agreement as stated in Paragraph 4 below, subject to the terms and conditions in this Agreement. Owner agrees to comply with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, the Network Rules, and the rules, regulations, and restrictions of any Network Resort at which Owner reserves accommodations.



Assignment of Resort Reservation Rights. For the term of this Agreement, Owner assigns to the Network Operator its reservation rights at the Resort. Owner acknowledges that through this assignment, the Network Operator may make available to other Network Members a Vacation Period at the Resort subject to the Owner’s reservation rights during the Home Resort Reservation Period. Owner agrees that once a Network exchange has been confirmed, Owner has relinquished all use rights in the Vacation Period associated with the Vacation Ownership Interest (“Exchanged Interest”). Owner further agrees that (a) such confirmation shall act as an assignment of the Exchanged Interest to the Network Operator; (b) the Network Operator is entitled to use the Exchanged Interest in the Network Operator’s sole discretion; and (c) the Network Operator is further entitled to keep any and all fees generated by the use of the Exchanged Interest.


Owner Acknowledgments. Owner recognizes and acknowledges that: Owner has received copies of the Network Disclosure Guide, the Network Fees Chart, the Vacation Ownership Use Notification, the Network Rules and the Starpoints Disclosure Statement all of which are incorporated herein by reference. Owner hereby accepts and agrees to all terms and conditions set forth in those documents.


Please know, VSN members who make reservations at their home resort during the Home Resort Reservation Period (12-8 months prior to arrival) and wish to transfer their reservation to a third party guest will not be charged the fee. The fee only applies to a third-party guest reservation booked within the VSN Network Float Period or the VSN Network Priority Period starting at eight months prior to arrival. Once the fee has been applied to a specific reservation, any further name changes to that reservation, will not incur an additional fee. Third-party guests include friends and family members not listed on the ownership deed or contract and are not accompanied by the owner. In support of resort security procedures, check-in and key issuance will be provided to the name on the reservation (with valid photo ID), therefore, Owners must contact Owner Services when changing a reservation to a third party.


Thank you again for your valuable feedback and the opportunity to respond. We look forward to serving your vacation ownership needs for many years to come.


Sincerely,




Bettina (Tina) Arias

Consumer Affairs Specialist

Owner Services


T 407 903 4831 F 407 903 4300

9002 San Marco Court, Orlando, FL 32819
 

tschwa2

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Has anyone received a refund yet on the guest cert fee and was that automatically done or did you have to call up and request it?
 

bankr63

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We did eventually receive the letter regarding the fee, and then this weekend received a message apologizing for the first message and indicating that the fee only applies to VSN. So if you are renting your owned non-VSN villa, there is no fee.
 

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OR a StarOptions reservation when those StarOptions are used to reserve at the resort and in the season from which they were obtained.
This was my point yesterday...
 

Helios

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Quite simply with the pick and choose your star options functionally that exists now they can print an line on the bottom of each reservation confirmation now tat says.

You are / are not allowed to commercially rent this reservation.
That would help...
 

BLUE AYES

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I called last night and was told my refund would automatically be returned to my credit card within 10 business days.
 

PamMo

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I was just going to post that link to the RedWeek article. Impressive that the guest fees would have generated over $2.5 million a year for Vistana!
 

DeniseM

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This is gem in the article:

When asked why Vistana was imposing the fees, an owner services rep responded, without prodding, "because others are doing it."

In other words - they are charging it, because they can.
 

DavidnRobin

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In other words - they are charging it, because they can.

This is corporate speak of what VSN already stated in their followup email in regards to this fee is in line with 'industry standards'.

Sure glad that HR HOA docs seem to protect some from this fee (so far)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

sail27bill

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I just thought I would let people know that I received my credit from Vistana yesterday. Hopefully, others have gotten theirs refunded too. Thank you all for your campaign support and tireless efforts.
 

beachlynn

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It is so disingenuous to say by implementing this fee it will make it easier for people to book at their home resort so they are enforcing this fee. The amount is a money grab and a nuisance but not enough to prevent people from renting out their villas if they can't use them.
 

dioxide45

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We never did receive the followup email about the fee only applying to StarOption reservations. I wonder if it is because I couldn't find anywhere in our SVV docs that guest certificates are to be at no charge? Perhaps they reviewed all the different resort docs and the fee will still apply for all reservations where there was absence of that verbiage.
 

SMHarman

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It is so disingenuous to say by implementing this fee it will make it easier for people to book at their home resort so they are enforcing this fee. The amount is a money grab and a nuisance but not enough to prevent people from renting out their villas if they can't use them.
But it's not going to prevent people renting their villas. Or anyone really.

It is going to add another fee to the against-the-rules activity of renting SO
 

dioxide45

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There really is no incentive now for Vistana to prevent StarOption rentals. For every one, they get $59. There is even an ad in the TUG Marketplace right now where someone is talking about all the great StarOptions reservations they made and rented.
 
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