[2006] Disturbing Trend - Resorts Refusing to Take Back Timeshares When Nothing Owing

[JMAESD84]

So what Chris is saying is he's mad as he...ck about this whole timeshare transfer idea/thing and he's pretty sure you can sue almost anybody for almost anything nowadays.

Does that some it up, Chris?

 

[e.bram]

Pro se I would kick Chris5's tail or any lawyer in court in case where the money is small. I do it for entertainment(see my previous posts) and the lawywers are in it for the money. Not enough here for them to put any effort in to the case. You could even ask for a jury trial. The judge would probably lean toward the HOA taking back theTS and maybe the owner might have to pay some or all of the MF's owed.

 

[JMAESD84]

If I had the right case in which someone has done what you advised him to do -- transfer the timeshare to a homeless person who you know has no real ability to use the timeshare or pay maintenance fees -- I think I'd be able to pursuit that person for fraud or a "prima facie tort," which many lawyers, including myself.....

So your argument would be, the seller didn't do due dillegence in ensuring that the buyer had both the means and intentions to both use the timeshare and continue to pay the maintenance fee.

What proof would you offer the court that the seller in any way acted negligently or with intent to defraud anyone?

I think you get tossed from court pretty quickly.

 

[chris5]

So your argument would be, the seller didn't do due dillegence in ensuring that the buyer had both the means and intentions to both use the timeshare and continue to pay the maintenance fee.

What proof would you offer the court that the seller in any way acted negligently or with intent to defraud anyone?

I think you get tossed from court pretty quickly.

Didn't you tell us you were going to stick it to the man by transferring the timeshare to a known deadbeat, someone who wouldn't use the timeshare and couldn't afford maintenance fees? If someone brazenly announces that to the world, on the internet or in front of his friends, then I have all the proof in the world unless you plan of perjuring yourself or others. It's not about due diligence or negligence -- it's about someone doing something borderline fraudulent because he wants to stick it to the man.

Not sure this gets tossed quickly, unless a Judge is willing to say there's no case as a matter of law, and who knows what can happen when lawyers appeal lower Judge rulings.

Hey, I'm not mad at anyone -- I'm just saying that your notion of transferring your timeshare to a deadbead, homeless person, if brazenly announced to others, is not without risk. You appear to think this is a riskless transaction -- just paper the transfer and it's gone, right. Well, I'm just pointing out that there is some risk -- it might not be a major risk to you, but you should recognize that there is some legal risk that this transfer could get unwound and you might pay damages beyond maintenance fees, like court costs, attorney's fees, etc.

And e.Bram all of this stuff about pro se representation against lawyers is not without risk too. There are lots of lawyers who get messianic complexes in taking on cases and, in effect, become crusaders for a mission. At some point, both sides might be taking on something that has spun out of control.

 

[e.bram]

I haven't met one yet.Around here all the lawyers are out for the bucks. And the few on a mission would probably represent the homeless person against the HOA.
How about dumping all your dogs in a LLC or corp which goes belly up.

 

[AwayWeGo]

Boston Legal.

Around here all the lawyers are out for the bucks. And the few on a mission would probably represent the homeless person against the HOA.

It's just about time to write this up in screenplay form & send it off to David E. Kelley.

Would be a good case for Alan Shore & Denny Crane, no ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[JMAESD84]

Hey, I'm not mad at anyone -- I'm just saying that your notion of transferring your timeshare to a deadbead, homeless person, if brazenly announced to others, is not without risk. You appear to think this is a riskless transaction -- just paper the transfer and it's gone, right. Well, I'm just pointing out that there is some risk -- it might not be a major risk to you, but you should recognize that there is some legal risk that this transfer could get unwound and you might pay damages beyond maintenance fees, like court costs, attorney's fees, etc.

Thanks Chris, I think that YOUR legal advise is important to anyone that would seriously be considering this doing this, DONT TALK ABOUT DOING IT.

So when, as an owner in good standing (fully paid and up to date), you've exhausted your appeal to the HOA/Management about taking your timeshare as a deedback because of the inability to sell it due to market factors that they themselves help to create. Just smile, thank them for doing all they can and say that you're sure that things will somehow all work out in the end, as they always do.

Add a wink and be on your way.

 

[JMAESD84]

I haven't met one yet.Around here all the lawyers are out for the bucks. And the few on a mission would probably represent the homeless person against the HOA.
How about dumping all your dogs in a LLC or corp which goes belly up.

It's interesting that one of the answers from the PCC thread that got taken down yesterday, was that the final disposition of many of the timeshare weeks they contract to take off of owners hands ends up in a travel club(s) inventory.

I know of other PCC's that also have affiliations to travel clubs.

Sort of makes you wonder if the "nightmare scenario" is closer than we think? When these independant travel clubs go belly up, guess who'll be left holding the bag.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Thanks Chris, I think that YOUR legal advise is important to anyone that would seriously be considering this doing this, DONT TALK ABOUT DOING IT.

So when, as an owner in good standing (fully paid and up to date), you've exhausted your appeal to the HOA/Management about taking your timeshare as a deedback because of the inability to sell it due to market factors that they themselves help to create. Just smile, thank them for doing all they can and say that you're sure that things will somehow all work out in the end, as they always do.

Add a wink and be on your way.

This is pretty cynical. The HOA is US, all of us who are left holding the bag, after the developer is long gone. What would you have an older resort do? You have to update to keep trading power. Owners want something nice, too, when they stay, so a few disgruntled owners don't want to pay assessments or rising fees? Who cares about those people. Dump your weeks on eBay for $1.00.

Some of the older Marriotts have needed major assessments. One Marriott resort in CO is now managed by VRI because the owners couldn't afford the assessments that Marriott had in mind. Well, that is what an HOA does, they get a different management company that handles it better.

Vistana lost its Gold Crown rating because the units were worn, so they assessed the owners over $1K in all parts of the resort. They have units as old as ours in Colorado. I noticed the eBay ads for Vistana are not disclosing the assessments, so those new owners are in for a shock.

What until your "cream of the crop" timeshares need some major overhaul, JMaes. Are you going to dump them?

It is called responsibility to take care of what you bought and cooperate with those in charge, communicate with them, to find out the future of the resort. Request a copy of the financials and then ask the appropriate questions. Do you think older resorts' management companies and HOA's don't know what is going on in the industry? They sure do, they know how badly an older resort trades, when it loses its quality ratings. YOU and people like YOU are part of the problem.

The one solution I think is most viable is selling resorts out as whole owned units to vacationers. Less of the older resorts in the system is okay.

 

[rickandcindy23]

It's interesting that one of the answers from the PCC thread that got taken down yesterday, was that the final disposition of many of the timeshare weeks they contract to take off of owners hands ends up in a travel club(s) inventory.

I know of other PCC's that also have affiliations to travel clubs.

Sort of makes you wonder if the "nightmare scenario" is closer than we think? When these independant travel clubs go belly up, guess who'll be left holding the bag.

This is old news. That PCC that posted yesterday is a brand new (4 months old) one that started with former employees of one of the bigger companies.

 

[JMAESD84]

This is old news. That PCC that posted yesterday is a brand new (4 months old) one that started with former employees of one of the bigger companies.

So YOU refuse to directly answer the question of why YOU would post speculation that I do not own timeshares and question my motives.

Then you follow-up with "This is old news." to a post that to a THINKING PERSON suggests that maybe these affiliated Travel Clubs are possibly temporary havens for dog timeshares that will need to be foreclosed on by the HOA's when it's decided the Travel Club will go bankrupt. The "Nightmare Scenario".

Do you have an agenda here or are you simply missing the point?

 

[JMAESD84]

This is pretty cynical. What would you have an older resort do? .

I made very specific recommendations, the core of which is to allow deed backs and evolve the resort to either function with fewer independant owners or force a vote to desolve as a timeshare and sell ofF the remaining assets.

Owners want something nice, too, when they stay, so a few disgruntled owners don't want to pay assessments or rising fees? Who cares about those people.

I do. I don't think that they should be victimized anymore and nor should a subsequent owner who the timeshare may transfer too. Make the business model make economic sense for all owners or for none of them.

Businesses fail all the time when they no longer make economic sense. Why not timeshares?

 

[Jya-Ning]

Then you follow-up with "This is old news." to a post that to a THINKING PERSON suggests that maybe these affiliated Travel Clubs are possibly temporary havens for dog timeshares that will need to be foreclosed on by the HOA's when it's decided the Travel Club will go bankrupt. The "Nightmare Scenario".

It is anyone's own choice. If you decide you just walk, you just walk. You leave the choice to HOA to decide what option they can ake through the system their country, your country can provide to them. But any HOA should try to exhaust these options if they are responsible.

If HOA can not handle it, they will either find another to solve it, or just went belly up.

The "Nightmare" may or may never happen.

It will happen if the economic is in a very bad situation. In that case, I don't know how many industrial will actually survive. But one thing for sure, since the economic is so bad, the travel business will be very apearing to other country, in that case, the resort will provide cheap labor and operator as a hotel to foreign country tourism.

It will not happen if economic is good or real estate price can hold. The rest of owners just vote to end this resort and has the property sold to a developer or foreign investor, and based on what happen to most of area, it probably worth more or the same. And they can sell it to the country that has best economic situation.

Of course, if there is a war, then most resort will be closed/abandon so the local government will take them back if there is someone want to rebuild them as TS or other development. Or until the economic is better, then reopen it.

HOA can also choice to just shut down the resort until overall situation went better, which will may the yearly payment just tax and some neccesary operation cost.

I don't see any HOA should take the week especially from PCC or a travel company unless they like to and able to.

But if those "Nightmare" is PCC and so call tour club, it may happen. With the information flow, they will have even more difficult time to sell even good week. And I believe that is what they promote, and that is what they believes, so when that happen, most of them should be happy because they did see their future.

Ps. Come to think of that, since most of them (PCC) operates on the assumption of nightmare, so if that happen, it actually should be a sweet dream for them. Unfortuantely, I don't see the TS will end.

Jya-Ning

 

[bogey21]

I don't see a "disturbing trend" and I don't see why this is so complicated. Let's say I bought a Blue Week to trade with RCI and now the trades are not there. Or say I bought a Red Week and can't use it because I can no long afford the airfares.

So I want out. It is my problem to solve. If the HOA (or Developer) will take it back and let me off the hook, great. If not, I need to find a different way out. That's what I signed up for when I bought the Week.

It is kind of like non-refundable NASCAR tickets. I buy them for a Sunday race. It rains on Sunday and the race is postponed until Monday. I can't go on Monday. The track won't take the tickets back (remember they are non-refundable) so I either find someone to buy them from me or eat the expense. I knew those were the rules when I bought the tickets.

When I bought my Timeshare Week I agreed to pay Maintenance Fees as long as I own it. There is one way out. That is not to own it. It is my obligation to find a way. Period. End of Story.

GEORGE

 

[JMAESD84]

When I bought my Timeshare Week I agreed to pay Maintenance Fees as long as I own it. There is one way out. That is not to own it. It is my obligation to find a way. Period. End of Story.GEORGE

It's (Black and White) and it's as simple as that. Wink!!

 

[e.bram]

What responsibility????

I for one feel no moral resposibility to the HOA or other owners. My only moral responsibility is to myself and to my family. If I have a TS I can no longer use nad is worthless I will dispose of it at the least cost to myself. End of story.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I made very specific recommendations, the core of which is to allow deed backs and evolve the resort to either function with fewer independant owners or force a vote to desolve as a timeshare and sell ofF the remaining assets.



I do. I don't think that they should be victimized anymore and nor should a subsequent owner who the timeshare may transfer too. Make the business model make economic sense for all owners or for none of them.

Businesses fail all the time when they no longer make economic sense. Why not timeshares?

This was the entire point I was making a few months ago, but you don't pay any attention to anything that I say that is common sense. Deedback or sell the resort as whole owned. I said that in this thread.

I wonder what your interest in PCC's is. I am sure curious as to why you started a thread on it and why your attention falls to any thread about them.

 

[JMAESD84]

I wonder what your interest in PCC's is. I am sure curious as to why you started a thread on it and why your attention falls to any thread about them.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinions, sifting through the information gathered, expanding my knowledge and forming my own opinions.

Hopefully, TSpat will return and get that thread rolling along. It's a replacement from the one taken down the other day for containing advertisement as it's core. This PCC insider was willing to field all questions.

PCC's play a major role in the seondary market place for timeshares and it would be wise to fully understand them and the impact they will have both short and long term on the timeshare industry.

Most of us haven't received our "15 minutes of fame" in life by crusading against them and still have an open mind

 

[timeos2]

Most of us haven't received our "15 minutes of fame" in life by crusading against them and still have an open mind

Oh really. Well, try this. They (the PCC) are leeches on the timeshare community. They could be offering an actual service but choose to hide behind a pitch as sleazy as a Wastegate sales Weasels but with the opposite view, charge far too much for what they provide and take advantage of those who are already victims of sorts. Other than that they are slightly below shyster lawyers and the old model used car salesmen (who actually may have moved up the food chain thanks to Wastegate and the PCC slugs).

If a poster gets 15 min of fame for a crusade against any of the above more power to them. The PCC are some of the lowest of the low.

 

[JMAESD84]

Oh really. Well, try this. They (the PCC) are leeches on the timeshare community.

And to think, the primary reason they exist is because HOA's wont take deed backs from the very owners whos interests they have a duty to serve.

They could be offering an actual service .....

I'm very sure that they do in fact offer a service.

...but choose to hide behind a pitch as sleazy as a Wastegate sales Weasels but with the opposite view, charge far too much for what they provide.....

People selling in the timeshare industry using sleazy sales pitches and charging too much......I'm beginning to think it's some sort of membership rule or law.

and take advantage of those who are already victims of sorts.

You're almost showing some sympathy for those timeshare owners stuck between a rock (HOA) and a hard place (market place).

And to think, all it might take to set it right, is a smile and a wink!!

 

[rickandcindy23]

And to think, the primary reason they exist is because HOA's wont take deed backs from the very owners whos interests they have a duty to serve.



I'm very sure that they do in fact offer a service.



People selling in the timeshare industry using sleazy sales pitches and charging too much......I'm beginning to think it's some sort of membership rule or law.



You're almost showing some sympathy for those timeshare owners stuck between a rock (HOA) and a hard place (market place).

And to think, all it might take to set it right, is a smile and a wink!!

My name was recently dragged through the mud by a PCC in Timesharing Today. This is that PCC's attitude toward any of us who think their business is sleazy. I was accused of selling timeshares, yet in my years of owning timeshare I have sold only two, a week at Twin Rivers and a week at Gardens at West Maui, one that we used and owned for 25 years and the second that I bought for the purpose of using one year, when our kids announced they were going with us to Maui and we had no room for six.

I would hardly say I am a timeshare reseller, though we do own way too many right now, and will sell some, but I have to decide which ones to sell and for how much.

 

[wbtimesharer]

Oh really. Well, try this. They (the PCC) are leeches on the timeshare community. They could be offering an actual service but choose to hide behind a pitch as sleazy as a Wastegate sales Weasels but with the opposite view, charge far too much for what they provide and take advantage of those who are already victims of sorts. Other than that they are slightly below shyster lawyers and the old model used car salesmen (who actually may have moved up the food chain thanks to Wastegate and the PCC slugs).

If a poster gets 15 min of fame for a crusade against any of the above more power to them. The PCC are some of the lowest of the low.

Here is what I find so darn humorous. This thread is one huge complaint about how timeshares are worthless and what devious ways can be created to back out of them and dump them on the rest of the owners aka HOA and that HOA's should be forced to take them back.

And in the very same thread, we have the ongoing whining and complaining about how PCC's are the demon spawn of the universe because they are going around telling people that TS's are freaking worthless.

:annoyed: Cmon people, try to make up your minds.

Bill

 

[rickandcindy23]

Here is what I find so darn humorous. This thread is one huge complaint about how timeshares are worthless and what devious ways can be created to back out of them and dump them on the rest of the owners aka HOA and that HOA's should be forced to take them back.

And in the very same thread, we have the ongoing whining and complaining about how PCC's are the demon spawn of the universe because they are going around telling people that TS's are freaking worthless.

:annoyed: Cmon people, try to make up your minds.

Bill

I see differing opinions and this is what this site is all about, discussion of our different opinions. It is optional to read any discussion, if you find it loathesome.

 

[wbtimesharer]

I see differing opinions and this is what this site is all about, discussion of our different opinions. It is optional to read any discussion, if you find it loathesome.

Actually, I said humorous.

The :annoyed: was just for show.

It appears most everybody's opinion has been reached several times over in this thread mine included.

Wonder if this thread will break any Tug records for length.

 

[johnfornal]

Time To Revisit This Issue

The Current economic crisis makes this thread one of the most important among all issues discussed on TUG...Please find a way to renew its value...

Thank you :ignore: