[2009] Why Do We Shame People Out Of Walking Away?

[RedDogSD]

That was entertaining. Good job Moderators. I don't think I ever got to see an attack happen live before. Just now, 4-5 new SPAM threads were started...and it only took the moderators maybe 2-3 minutes to delete all of them (and lock out the user name who was doing it). Good work guys!

 

[PerryM]

Using the Federal Bankruptcy Laws for personal reasons is perfectly legal and ethical also, according to your point. I'm going to have to assume that then.

I don't think a person has to labeled 'lazy' for walking away from their timeshare, or their personal, or their business debt. There can always be unknown or unforeseen cirumstances.

Regardless, of whether someone is walking away from their business debt, their timeshare debt, or their personal debt... they are all at the same level of being a 'low-life' (your terminology here, my point is they are all at the same level).

Nobody is feeling sorry for anyone. In my belief, you are being condescending and patronizing using that type of terminology. Did anyone feel sorry for Donald Trump when he announced he was going BK?

Think what you want - I lump the folks who decide to just walk away from their obligations and not try to find a way to repay folks in with the guys in Vegas sitting on the pedestrian bridges hat in hand; lazy.

Folks who get into trouble, research alternatives, and set up repayment plans are fine with me - they are living up to their commitments and that's all I ask.

I see no reason why timeshare owners should be allowed to just walk away and let folks like me to pick up their bill. If folks want to fee sorry for someone try the folks who pay higher MFs because lazy folks just walk away.

 

[DeniseM]

That was entertaining. Good job Moderators. I don't think I ever got to see an attack happen live before. Just now, 4-5 new SPAM threads were started...and it only took the moderators maybe 2-3 minutes to delete all of them (and lock out the user name who was doing it). Good work guys!

It's not just our Spidey Senses (Although we have those, too!) When people see shills, scammers, or other inappropriate posts, they can click on the triangle in the bottom left corner of the post and that sends an email to all Mods and Admins, so it can be dealt with immediately.

 

[e.bram]

Ace2000:
Did Donald Trump's credit rating take a hit?

 

[ace2000]

Ace2000:
Did Donald Trump's credit rating take a hit?

Who knows, but all the publicity probably helped his TV show...

 

[rickandcindy23]

Ace2000:
Did Donald Trump's credit rating take a hit?

Who cares about Donald Trump? Until he comes to Twin Rivers or Val Chatelle and buys out lots of weeks and doesn't pay, I don't care what he does.

 

[timeos2]

I really have no interest in knowing all the grizzly details of folks that cost me money - that is better left to churches, mosks, synagogues, and other charitable organizations.

All I know is that we can NOT build a society based on folks not keeping their word.

Demanding that I take on others' responsibilities and obligations will simply hurt everyone in the long run.

In the case of deadbeat owners - they got to that position based upon thousands and thousands of decisions - they must take responsibility for all those decisions and not me.

That's what our society is now debating - who is responsible for their decisions they make in life - themselves or "other folks".

So put me down in the column of owner who want's to let loose the credit agencies and collection agencies and get the money owed the resort I am an owner in.

But that's just me....

Perry - When you're correct you are correct. Responsibility is what a society is built on. It that collapses then the problems of today are minor. Hopefully the lesson has been learned and the days of far too easy credit are behind us. It isn't healthy for any economy to be living on ever increasing debt.

 

[icydog]

Think what you want - I lump the folks who decide to just walk away from their obligations and not try to find a way to repay folks in with the guys in Vegas sitting on the pedestrian bridges hat in hand; lazy.

Folks who get into trouble, research alternatives, and set up repayment plans are fine with me - they are living up to their commitments and that's all I ask.

I see no reason why timeshare owners should be allowed to just walk away and let folks like me to pick up their bill. If folks want to fee sorry for someone try the folks who pay higher MFs because lazy folks just walk away.

I had to pay to have someone take over my timeshares. I paid all the fees as well. I could have walked away I suppose but I would've gotten myself in more trouble. I think a good healthy fear of reprisal stops many folks from turning their backs on obligations. Whatever it takes, people should not walk away from payments

 

[e.bram]

Icydog:
Did you get assurances that the party which took over your TS will continue paying?

 

[itisme]

I see no reason why timeshare owners should be allowed to just walk away and let folks like me to pick up their bill. If folks want to fee sorry for someone try the folks who pay higher MFs because lazy folks just walk away.

You can look at it in a different angle. Owners of prime weeks want the owners of dog weeks to pick up their bill. If the maintenance fees are propotional to the value of the week then less dog week owners will walk away. During non prime weeks, most resort activities are not available, occupancy is low and less staff needed @ the resort.

 

[PerryM]

Einstein's Timeshare Relativity Theory

You can look at it in a different angle. Owners of prime weeks want the owners of dog weeks to pick up their bill. If the maintenance fees are propotional to the value of the week then less dog week owners will walk away. During non prime weeks, most resort activities are not available, occupancy is low and less staff needed @ the resort.

If I'm not mistaken it is the state governments demanding that all owners pay the same MFs - that's my recollection.

As an owner nobody told me that my Platinum week meant that other owners were subsidizing me - we all use the swimming pools, the maids don't do a better job for me than other times during the year, the rugs still have stains in them when we use our villas.

Not sure what special benefits I get over a Silver owner - taxes are the same, towels are the same, etc.

Heck, when we snowboard Park City during the holidays my car rentals are much more expensive than mud season, the slopes sure stick it to me during holiday season, restaurants are so booked that we wait 90 minutes for a table.

Sounds like I'm the one getting screwed over the Silver owner...

 

[ausman]

You know, this is a very valid point and has been the cause of the demise of some older timeshare resorts.

In the spirit of your post which I'm sure is tongue in cheek.

Why not not swap your ownership to a lesser level and enjoy less availability while still paying the same fees.

 

[PerryM]

Some resorts do charge more/less MFs for the same unit...

You know, this is a very valid point and has been the cause of the demise of some older timeshare resorts.

In the spirit of your post which I'm sure is tongue in cheek.

Why not not swap your ownership to a lesser level and enjoy less availability while still paying the same fees.

In a Points system, like WorldMark, I do pay many more Points (Credits) during Red season over Blue season for the same exact unit. My MFs are per Point and there is no quantity discount. (Well I'm not going to get into the slight difference on a few Points)

So in those resorts I pay a lot more MFs for a high demand week versus a low demand week for the same exact unit.

But I'll bet just as many WM owners walk away from not paying their MFs and mortgages as traditional week based timeshares.

 

[Mel]

Not all owners who walk away own dog weeks either. When our resort rebuilt, we were able to reassign units, and eliminate a few precisely because the HOA endud up owning enough of EVERY week to do so.

When the timeshares were sold, the owners of those dog weeks paid much less up front. Yet, if the timeshare program were to be dissolved, and the resort sold, they would be entitled to an equal share of the profits from the sale. The issue is that there are two parts of a timeshare ownership - who you OWN based on the deed, and what you are entitled to use (also listed on the deed, but not truly relevant to what you OWN.

Take a typical 2BR condo on the beach (in a very seasonal area), with a market value of $200,000 if sold as a whole-use condo. Instead it is owned by 50 individuals, each assigned a different use-week, with 2 weeks used for maintenance. When sold by the developer, the best summer weeks were sold for $20,000, the low season was sold for $5000. They each paid $5000 for their ownership, and the peak owner paid $15,000 extra for the right to occupy the best week. If the condo is sold today for $200,000 each has a right to $4000.

Those same weeks may sell for only $1000 on the resale market today (if not less), but the underlying value of the real estate is $4000 per week.

 

[theo]

An astute and correct observation...

When the timeshares were sold, the owners of those dog weeks paid much less up front. Yet, if the timeshare program were to be dissolved, and the resort sold, they would be entitled to an equal share of the profits from the sale.

This inarguable fact is often conveniently ignored by those who profess that folks owning the "better" weeks should somehow pay higher maintenance fees than those who own the "lesser" weeks at the same facility.

 

[ace2000]

This inarguable fact is often conveniently ignored by those who profess that folks owning the "better" weeks should somehow pay higher maintenance fees than those who own the "lesser" weeks at the same facility.

The owners who own the 'dog' weeks feel they should pay less in fees than the 'red' week owners. The owners who own the 'red' weeks feel everyone should pay the same. This is a common TUG argument and both sides have merit.

But, the bottom line is the written document or contract signed by the owner on purchase. Don't see how you can get around that.

 

[theo]

The real bottom line...

But, the bottom line is the written document or contract signed by the owner on purchase.

...Or perhaps more bluntly stated, everyone at the given facility is going to be paying (or be billed, anyhow) the same maintenace fee amount at the same resort, whether the "prime" week or "dog" week owners like it or not, regardless of the content of any resale purchase documents.

 

[rickandcindy23]

Mel, funny you should mention it.

We are considering this for Twin Rivers near Winter Park (ski area) right now. We have about 200 inventory weeks (many are still deeded in deadbeat owners' names) and could easily close down two units and sell them outright as condos. Seriously, at least 120 of these weeks are blue, and we only have total of 260 blue weeks at TR. We would have to talk current owners into selling. It's not that easy to do. And what about week 52 owners, who have the best advantage for using and renting their weeks?

We have some ski weeks in inventory, quite a few red weeks, and we can give owners cash for the sale of a whole condo (a 3 bedroom sells for about $200K; a 2 bedroom about $169K). We can assign the red weeks into open weeks in other units. It would work for us. But getting 40 people to agree is another thing altogether. We might have a difficult time with some people who paid $10K for a ski week 30 years ago to believe their timeshare is only worth $500 today, closing costs included, but their week is actually worth $4K as real estate. Most of these owners are well over 60 years old, and they were told their investment would increase in value. We don't have enough ski weeks to gift each person another one, so what do you do then?

 

[PerryM]

My little red wagon...

The owners who own the 'dog' weeks feel they should pay less in fees than the 'red' week owners. The owners who own the 'red' weeks feel everyone should pay the same. This is a common TUG argument and both sides have merit.

But, the bottom line is the written document or contract signed by the owner on purchase. Don't see how you can get around that.

Folks who believe they should pay less to maintain the resort therefore believe others should pay more so they pay less. I can understand that mentality - on April 15 of each year I must pay for about 45 fellow Americans who don't want to pull the wagon but ride in the wagon.

What exactly do these folks get less of out of the MFs?

I look at the yearly auditors reports of the resorts/clubs I belong to and I can't see where Silver, for example, owners get less of something over Platinum owners.

If someone can come up with this list maybe I could be convinced to pull Bronze, Silver, and Gold members in my little red wagon - it's awful crowded in there but somehow "powers that be" believe there is lots more room...

 

[ace2000]

Folks who believe they should pay less to maintain the resort believe others should pay more so they pay less. I can understand that mentality - on April 15 of each year I must pay for about 45 fellow Americans who don't want to pull the wagon but ride in the wagon.

What exactly do these folks get less of out of the MFs?

I look at the yearly auditors reports of the resorts/clubs I belong to and I can't see where Silver, for example, owners get less of something over Platinum owners.

If someone can come up with this list maybe I could be convinced to pull Bronze, Silver, and Gold members in my little red wagon - its' awful crowded in there but somehow "powers that be" believe there is lots more room...

You're my hero... I want to be you.

:hysterical:

 

[AwayWeGo]

Orlando, Las Vegas, Etc.

This inarguable fact is often conveniently ignored by those who profess that folks owning the "better" weeks should somehow pay higher maintenance fees than those who own the "lesser" weeks at the same facility.

Mox nix when all the deeded weeks are floating & the whole timeshare is Red Season year-round.

Owners there are all in the same boat for fees & for usage.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[rickandcindy23]

Mox nix when all the deeded weeks are floating & the whole timeshare is Red Season year-round.

Owners there are all in the same boat for fees & for usage.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Orlando is perfect example. These are all 1-52 float, which is a gas! :rofl: The best weeks in Orlando by far are 7 (Presidents' week), 14 (for Easter, maybe 13 and 15 some years), 26-31, 51, and 52. The rest are basically white weeks with the red label.

But I do understand why Orlando does 1-52 as red, because the weather is good most of the time, and I love the white season in Orlando. I prefer Orlando over Hawaii, most of the time.

 

[Carol C]

A resort where I own is charging a $350 special assessment...just got the letter and there's no reason cited except for "difficult financial times". This is same resort I bought from a reseller on eBay who did not disclose to me as buyer that there would be a separately billed annual "amenities" fee along with the maint fee. Thus my total annual fees to maintain "ownership" at this timeshare resort are $645...and now I'm getting slapped with the special assessment. They have old time owners who have their m.f.'s frozen by original contracts...while ours can and do go up. I kinda doubt those original owners are being billed the special assessment either. So...will I bail out? I do not think so, not right now. I still find value in the two br/one ba self-standing chalet unit...and the resort has many amenities. Plus I can have day use, and I live within two hrs' drive. That could serve me well when/if I ever retire. So...to stay, or not to stay...to hold 'em or to fold 'em...ah, the age old questions of timesharers. And this TUG debate will certainly go on and on and on.

 

[AwayWeGo]

It's A Gas For Sure.

Orlando is perfect example. These are all 1-52 float, which is a gas!

It suits me fine, too.

However that may be, aren't there still some fixed-week timeshares in & around Orlando FL ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[timeos2]

It suits me fine, too.

However that may be, aren't there still some fixed-week timeshares in & around Orlando FL ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

Yes. But they are subject to "whims" (and are aterrible way to own in what is basically a year round area. Wastegate holds you to your deeded week, including charging you if you dare try to change dates one year, UNLESS you want to trade with II! Then they suddenly feel you have no fixed week but any junk week they care to give you & incredibly II goes along! RCI only accepts the deeded week as expected.

Fixed weeks in seasonal areas are great.