[ 2013 ] How does it make sense?

[AndySamuels]

How does it make sense?

So I have been considering timeshares for years now. I have been to a number of presentations in Vegas. The past 2 weeks I have tried to make sense of it even more. But the #s just do not add up.

Objective:
Timeshare to use in Atlantic City (AC) and/or Vegas.

Requirements:
2BR. Any season.

#s:
AC and Vegas both have too many hotel rooms so you can easily get connected rooms pretty cheap (<$100 a night).
AC and Vegas both have hotel / casino chains that throw comps around like candy (free / discounted rooms, free play, buffets and so on).
Timeshare ownership (points / rooms) maintenance / membership (& transfer / closing) are pretty expensive: $1000+ a year.

Flexibility:
Timeshares need to be booked very far in advance (many months).
Timeshares have rules around checking in & out days.
Fees to bank points / weeks.
Limited variety in locations.

None of these handicaps apply when it comes to hotels.

Even with $1 offers for timeshares I cannot get the math to work for me.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

 

[Rent_Share]

Timeshare ownership (elsewhere) gives you access to Las Vegas timeshares from the last minute rental pool

Short Lead Time
Often Less than 1 Week Available
Low Cost

Very few regulars here recommend purchasing in Las Vegas, Branson or Oralndo

 

[ronparise]

Lets see

Marriott Hotel room in New Orleans April 25-28.....$379/night = $1137+tax

Wyndham La Belle Maison timeshare 1 bedroom suite April 25-28
98000 points 98000 points at $5mf per 1000 points= $500

Avenue Plaza Resort one bedroom suite .... mf = $650
resort allows split week reservations so 3 nights = $325


And for these event weekends you have to plan in advance, hotel or timeshare.

I didnt figure the purchase price in to my numbers, but feel free to add about $200 a week amortized over whatever timeframe you like

Timeshares make sense to me. not for everyone, and not for every time or place. But for some places and some people sometimes they work very well.

 

[jackio]

I own a timeshare in Las Vegas, but after going a couple of times I found that I got a better deal through the hotels. If I want to stay for a week, or if my deposits are expiring, I go to a timeshare. I like to have a couple of rooms to spread out, and if DH comes we like to have 2 bathrooms. I also like to have the kitchen and the washer/dryer if we are staying more than a few days. I love to go home with a suitcase full of clean clothes.

 

[AndySamuels]

Thanks guys!

 

[chriskre]

If you just like to vacation gambling then timeshares may not be for you.
Why bother if you can get comped a room for being a frequent gambler.
Now if you were vacationing anywhere else other than casino hotels then I'd say pursue it.

There are some timeshares that offer bonus time for owners at those specific resorts. Bonus time is discounted stays available for cash on short notice. Hilton Grand Vacation Club and Bluegreen are two systems that have this perk for their members. The discounts can be quite attractive especially if you want 2 bedrooms as opposed to just joining hotel rooms.

If you are just comparing studios to hotel rooms then the math won't work out for you. Once you travel in timeshare style it's very difficult to go back to hotel rooms. Since you are used to hotel rooms you don't know what you've been missing.

 

[AndySamuels]

Thanks. You are probably right in that TS travel is a very unique experience. In Vegas I usually stay at the Rio which has very large rooms (600ft).

I guess the self catering part would be fun. Personally I always eat out. I am not big on shopping, preparing, cooking, eating and then washing dishes.

I typically end up going to AC because it is not too far from NYC and Vegas because I have in-laws there. That basically eats up all my vacation days.

 

[chriskre]

Thanks. You are probably right in that TS travel is a very unique experience. In Vegas I usually stay at the Rio which has very large rooms (600ft).

I guess the self catering part would be fun. Personally I always eat out. I am not big on shopping, preparing, cooking, eating and then washing dishes.

I typically end up going to AC because it is not too far from NYC and Vegas because I have in-laws there. That basically eats up all my vacation days.

I've never stayed at the Rio but can tell you that I recently stayed a week at the Marriott Grande Chateau in a 3 bedroom, 3 bath unit with two kitchens and two washer/dryers and living rooms and paid less than you may have paid for 3 nights at the Rio. That's the beauty of timeshares and why we all hang out here all day and night. :hysterical:

I don't cook either but do like to have the snacks and drinks in our living room before we go out or come home at night. Having the living room is a great benefit when sharing the room with friends. Everybody has their own personal space yet you can stay up drinking and socializing all night if you choose and not have to worry about driving DUI.

And eating breakfast in the room is priceless to me. I'm no good til I get a pot of coffee and some carbs going in the morning. You can easily spend $10-$15 on breakfast eating out every day and half the time I'd miss the service anyway cause we may not get out til 11am if we've been up all night.

 

[AndySamuels]

Impressive. I am very curious how much you really pay per night when you have a 3BR/3BR setup. When you add up your MFs / memberships / reservations (& assessments amortized): how much is that per night you think? I exclude original purchase cost of your points / ownership @ Marriott (amortized/financed) on the assumption that you picked up the ownership / points for free / very little.

This is where my math for TS' usually comes up short every time because per night it is is really very expensive when you factor in all expenses and then divide by the # of nights. Especially for 2BR/2BR and up. With my job I am also not able to plan these things out more than 3 or 4 months really. That is another thing that has me worried about TS'.

 

[chriskre]

Impressive. I am very curious how much you really pay per night when you have a 3BR/3BR setup. When you add up your MFs / memberships / reservations (& assessments amortized): how much is that per night you think? I exclude original purchase cost of your points / ownership @ Marriott (amortized/financed) on the assumption that you picked up the ownership / points for free / very little.

This is where my math for TS' usually comes up short every time because per night it is is really very expensive when you factor in all expenses and then divide by the # of nights. Especially for 2BR/2BR and up. With my job I am also not able to plan these things out more than 3 or 4 months really. That is another thing that has me worried about TS'.

Sent you a PM with the breakdown.
Don't want to post it out here.
Loose lips sink ships.

And just an FYI, I got this unit on Flexchange so it was booked within 60 days of check in so it was a last minute deposit by Marriott to II for a holiday week.

 

[presley]

Thanks. You are probably right in that TS travel is a very unique experience. In Vegas I usually stay at the Rio which has very large rooms (600ft).

Are those rooms one large room? Or, do they have 2 rooms? 600 square feet is very large. I've staying in timeshare units smaller than that. Just wondering what they have. Just more room? Or, is there a small fridge and microwave?

 

[AndySamuels]

Those are typically 1 room. They have a TV area with a couch / chairs and a desk section. Plus 2 queens or 1 king. When we get 2+ rooms we typically get adjoining rooms. There are also some restaurants in the hotel, huge pools and a lot of gaming square footage. They used to have an overhead carnival show but they canned that last year.

Not the most luxurious or most conveniently located hotel in Vegas but good value for $ from my experience. Also very generous with comps. Gold Coast and Palms are walking distance.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Re..._All_Suite_Hotel_Casino-Las_Vegas_Nevada.html

The only really bad thing is that they started charging "service fees" last year. That adds $20 to each night. But it takes away charges for WIFI and some other stuff.

 

[lizap]

I'll make a few general comments:

To get the most from TSs, you have to be able to make the system work for you. If you can be flexible and book your trips way in advance, you can save a great deal of $ using TSs, while having superior accomodations. Each system is different, and therefore you must learn the system and make it work for you. If you are going to primarily use TSs in a location that is overbuilt and cannot book many months in advance, then it maynot be right for you..

 

[vacationhopeful]

Lots more casinos these days ---

Poconos - Mt Airy Lodge Casino -- sister like that one - just a short ride from Wyndham Shawnee Resort

Ft Lauderdale - Hard Rock Casino - just a short ride from Wyndham's Royal Vista, Santa Barbara, Sea Gardens or Palm Aire.

Atlantic City - short walk to Resorts + all the other casinos - Wyndham Skyline Tower Resort - jinity ride to the bay area casinos.

Las Vegas - has multiple TS in the city.

 

[AndySamuels]

Thanks everyone!

I did some calculations (and thought I had saved them somewhere here already).

Week 14
5 nights Su Mo Tu We Th TOTAL
Skyline 2BR 28,000 28,000 28,000 28,000 28,000 140,000 $780 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Skyline 2BR Pres 36,000 36,000 36,000 36,000 36,000 180,000 $1000 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Borgata 216 216 216 216 216 1080
Borgata - comped 0 0 118 118 118 354

Week 52
5 nights Su Mo Tu We Th TOTAL
Skyline 2BR 21,500 21,500 21,500 21,500 21,500 107,500 $600 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Skyline 2BR Pres 22,600 22,600 22,600 22,600 22,600 113,000 $630 (points * 0.0056 per point)
Borgata 216 216 216 216 216 1080
Borgata - comped 0 0 118 118 118 354

WYNDHAM
247,500 2BR
305,000 ANNUAL
57,500 Balance
85 Night Average (per night)
WYNDHAM
293,000 2BR Pres
305,000 ANNUAL
12,000 Balance
85 Night Average (per night)

BORGATA
108 Night Average (per night), not comped
35.4 Night Average (per night), comped

EXCLUDES: Initial $2.3K purchase of 305K points.

Wyndham 305K comes with $1.7K MFs + other fees annually. So base = $1.7K / 305K points = $0.0056 per point. Excludes points acquisition cost. And the balance cost should really be added as well: or rolled over (at cost).

Anyway: it still is hard to make the numbers work. For Vegas the rates are even cheaper. Rio: $115 (comped) for 5 nights (1 room) or $50 average (1 room) (not comped). Grand Desert: 24K * 5 = 120K * 0.0056 = $670. Obviously TS' are not going to work here.

 

[DaveNV]

Timeshares provide a more comfortable stay if you can plan ahead, to maximize your experience. For last minute scheduling, you tend to take what you can get from among what's left.

With a hotel, you generally have fewer amenities, smaller rooms, no laundry or full kitchen, but you get more flexibility to book at the last minute. You may be able to shop around, and get a lower rate, plus you can easily book one night someplace. So each has their reasons for being a good choice, depending on circustances.

For me, just financially, and based on the way I travel, it works to my advantage to have a timeshare. Using my oceanfront unit in Kauai as an example, a place I enjoy staying for a week every two years, the money works out like this:

Amortized purchased price, (~$500 including closing costs, / seven nights per stay, / seven years of ownership so far, = ~$10 per night in the unit. This will go down the longer I own it.) Maintenance fee is roughly $170 per night in the unit. No other fees involved, no exchange or other costs, because I'm using the unit I own in my home resort.

So I pay $180 per night, in a directly oceanfront apartment-sized unit, sleeps four, with private bedroom, full kitchen, washer/dryer, and two bathrooms, in roughly 900 square feet.

Contrast that with the Aqua Hotel right next door (formerly part of the same complex.)

$409 per night, in a 1 bedroom oceanfront hotel room, sleeps 2, in 650 square feet. This is the closest comparable unit between the two places.

To stay a week in my timeshare: $1260.

To stay a week at the hotel: $2863.

----

The other advantage for me, is knowing exactly what I'm getting for my vacation dollar. Staying in my home resort, in the unit I request each time, makes it like "coming home" when I check in. They greet me like an old friend, make me feel like I'm part of their extended family, and when I open the door to "my" unit, I know exactly what to expect. I can tell what improvements have been made since I was last there, and it feels very much like I own a vacation home. I really, REALLY like that. I have never once felt like that at any hotel.

Dave

 

[Ridewithme38]

I can't figure out your numbers(it looks to me like you are comparing hotel rooms to 2brs timeshares, i'd be interested in how to get TWO hotel rooms in the Borgada for $118 per night)...Here are mine

My Timeshares MF is about $800, i paid $1 for it, it gets me about 40 TPU's in RCI(actually more, but 40 makes the math Easy) so i pay $20 per TPU.....RCI costs $89 a year.

Wyndham Skyline tower is available 2/7-2/14/2014 for 6 TPUs
RCI Membership $89
Skyline TPUs $120
Exchange fee $209

Total cost $418 or $59.72 a night.

Grandview is Available 2/7-2/14/2014 for 6 TPUs
RCI Membership $89
Grandview TPUs $120
Exchnage fee $209

Total cost $418 or $59.72 per night.

Both, while 1br places are MUCH more then just a barebones hotel room, like you've been comparing pricewise.

 

[AndySamuels]

In high value locations / weeks TS' make perfect sense. For AC / Vegas I am not convinced.

Borgata @ $59 per room per night: players club.

Borgata is top of the line: not barebones. Harrah's is barebones.

I have to admit the TPUs look good. But finding that many for $1 is not easy.

 

[Ridewithme38]

In high value locations / weeks TS' make perfect sense. For AC / Vegas I am not convinced.

Borgata @ $59 per room per night: players club.

Borgata is top of the line: not barebones. Harrah's is barebones.

I have to admit the TPUs look good. But finding that many for $1 is not easy.

Standard rooms on the Borgata website are TOTAL COST $1189.02, or about $169.86 a night

$20 per TPU is the high end, hell i'll give you mine, you don't even need the $1. On this board the recommendation, if buying a TS for exchanging through RCI, is $10-$15 per TPU, which are pretty easy to find, i'd own one already, but i'd have to get rid of my $20 per TPU resort first!

What i meant by barebones is....No full kitchen, no washer/dryers, no 2nd bathroom....No walls between the beds....To me that's barebones, i enjoy making bacon/eggs/sausage/etc., for breakfast Pasta dishes for dinner and i snore...so unless there is a wall and door between me and the other bed/person sleeping, they won't be able to sleep.

 

[AndySamuels]

Cool! How would I recognize the TPU value of an offering?

I do not cook / do laundry so those are good amenities but not of value to me personally.

Daily housekeeping / new towels is nice as well.

With adjoining rooms there are also 2 bathrooms with a hotel room.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I do not cook / do laundry so those are good amenities but not of value to me personally.

Why do you want a timeshare? Do you travel with large groups?

 

[AndySamuels]

Looking for a deal. I travel with friends and/or my family.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Looking for a deal. I travel with friends and/or my family.

Do your friends and/or family typically pay for their own rooms or do you pay?

It's an interesting question, most people i know who are looking timeshares like the idea of being able to save money by preparing their own meals, or like being able to bring small carry on baggage with them while travelling because of the washer or dryer, or have a wife and a couple kids and need the extra private rooms....I own for a couple reasons, 1. I like to save money by preparing simple meals myself. 2. I'm a single father of a daughter, she will very soon, need her own 'private space' on trips and not want to share a one room hotel room with daddy.

If you are happy in a single Hotel room, i'm not sure if i'd really recommend you move to the life long obligation of timeshare ownership, sure you may save a few bucks, but over the long run, it's another thing to complicate your life that you may not need.

 

[AndySamuels]

Good points. My wife may like having a kitchen / laundry facilities. My MIL usually comes along as well. They usually babysit and I go play, swim, go to the comedy club and so on.

TS' are very complicated. With a lot of people the cost of flying becomes prohibitive so driving range is important. Hence AC. My inlaws have a vacation house in the Poconos so that is another scenario. I just think the Poconos are boring but that may change once my sons are older.

 

[presley]

Good points. My wife may like having a kitchen / laundry facilities.

Sometimes like and need aren't exactly the same thing. I use timeshares for the reasons Ridewithme suggested. I like to pack less if I know I can do a load of laundry while there. I have to have a kitchen. There are so many dietary restrictions in my family at this point that eating out is extremely difficult and waaaaay more stressful than it should be.

So, I don't like doing laundry, but I will do it in order to have less bags. I don't like to spend my vacation cooking and doing dishes, but that is the lessor of the 2 evils when trying to eat out with my travel party.

I'd stick with a nice hotel room for as long as possible. You could always rent a timeshare if you want to try that extra space. You won't have daily housekeeping unless you pay extra for it. I do my own trash when staying in Marriott and Hilton timeshares.