• The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 30 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 30th anniversary: Happy 30th Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    Free memberships for every 50 subscribers!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $21,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $21 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    60,000+ subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

[2014] Help! [HOA refusing to accept transfer to VSC LLC]

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,739
Reaction score
9,148
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
So - where does this statement fit in:

But Southwind Management is saying they do not accept how Timeshare Trade-ins did the paperwork – so now I am liable for the maintenance fees of the Southwind property that I traded in January 2013 (I did pay the maintenance fee in January 2013)

Edited - just noticed that you talked to the other Mgmt. Co., not Southwind.
 
Last edited:

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
it would appear to me, trying to piece this together...is that SUMMERWINDS has a comfortable relationship with Timeshare trade ins.

however SOUTHWINDS/SPINNAKER does not. I need to be talking to southwinds instead of summer winds.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,739
Reaction score
9,148
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
it would appear to me, trying to piece this together...is that SUMMERWINDS has a comfortable relationship with Timeshare trade ins.

however SOUTHWINDS/SPINNAKER does not. I need to be talking to southwinds instead of summer winds.

Correct - Southwinds won't accept the transfer to the LLC.
 
Last edited:

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
ok...more excellent info!

Got ahold of southwinds/spinnaker....they have confirmed that this company (timeshare trade ins) is indeed a transfer company that deeds weeks into LLCs for the purposes of abandonment...and they refuse to recognize this transfer.

She did mention that for the OP to contact TSTI, demand a refund, and demand they deed the unit back into her name(assuming they have actually filed the paperwork to transfer it). once this is completed, she mentioned they would send her a QC deed and accept her interval back.

sending an email to her now with the details/contact person at spinnaker who was willing to help her with this.
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,739
Reaction score
9,148
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Brian - if the VSC won't reverse the deed transfer, maybe she can do it herself with LTT?
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
on a side note, the folks at spinnaker/southwind were well aware of TUG, and were supporters of our organization and regularly refer their owners to us when they have questions about timesharing/resale/etc.

The individuals I spoke to at summerwinds had no clue who we were =)
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
Brian - if the VSC won't reverse the deed transfer, maybe she can do it herself with LTT?

I think her best bet would be to demand TSTI do it, as I would imagine she might have paid funds to them to perform this action?

or maybe it was something all wrapped into the "trade in" from FQ to SP.

either way, I think if it were me my first attempt would be to have timeshare trade ins perform all the work since they promised a service that has yet to be delivered.
 

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,739
Reaction score
9,148
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Are you going to call the VSC? :D

What about the collection company situation?

Did they say when they FIRST contacted the OP?

Did they send her a 2014 MF bill?
 
Last edited:

tschwa2

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2008
Messages
16,017
Reaction score
4,680
Points
748
Location
Maryland
Resorts Owned
A few in S and VA, a single resort in NC, MD, PA, and UT, plus Jamaica and the Bahamas
So I wonder if they are saying that they will accept her deed without any additional payment once she has it back in her name free and clear or are they saying they will accept it back after she pays 2014 MF's plus any penalties and possibly 2015 at this point and possibly some additional fee.

Either way it is a win for her because I don't think Southwinds accept deed backs just because an owner wants to purchase from a different company and is unable or unwilling to try to sell hers. If they allow the QC, I think it is directly do to TugBrian's intervention on the OP's behalf. I hope she is willing and able to do the work to take advantage of the offer.

If that's not the case JeffW has 13 Southwind deeds in Hilton Head that he should look in getting approval to QC.


and my understanding was that the OP's trade in was wrapped in the deal. She didn't go looking for a disposal company. She was working with a developer to buy the new unit and they offered to take in the old ts as part of the deal.
 
Last edited:

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
I agree also, that this was all part of a "Trade in" vs her trying to find a way out and settling on a PCC.

I got the impression from the conversation that this situation was not a unique one in dealing with stormy point and their "upgrade" package as far as spinnaker was concerned.

While the spinnaker representative did not specifically mention if they would charge her the back fees/transfer fees/etc for taking the week back...in the way it was said it seemed that they were simply willing to take it back as long as it was put back into her name etc. The representative repeated a number of times for the OP to call and work with her directly and she would get her taken care of. I was very pleased with the demeanor and responses from the spinnaker representative. She genuinely wanted to help here.

I would hope that when the OP contacts the representative (i sent her an email with the details)...this is discussed...and she can report back here.

in looking at a recent french quarter resort that sold....the seller did have to pay TWO years of maint fees, AND the $1500 transfer fee...just to give it away.
 

CO skier

TUG Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
4,116
Reaction score
2,370
Points
448
Location
Colorado
ok...more excellent info!

Got ahold of southwinds/spinnaker....they have confirmed that this company (timeshare trade ins) is indeed a transfer company that deeds weeks into LLCs for the purposes of abandonment...and they refuse to recognize this transfer.

She did mention that for the OP to contact TSTI, demand a refund, and demand they deed the unit back into her name(assuming they have actually filed the paperwork to transfer it). once this is completed, she mentioned they would send her a QC deed and accept her interval back.

sending an email to her now with the details/contact person at spinnaker who was willing to help her with this.

So now the questions are:

Why is Summer Winds using Timeshare Trade-In and creating these situations?

and

Why didn't Southwinds send a letter to those involved explaining to, "contact TSTI, demand a refund, and demand they deed the unit back into her name(assuming they have actually filed the paperwork to transfer it). once this is completed, she mentioned they would send her a QC deed and accept her interval back." instead of freaking out the owners by sending it to collections?

How many owners will be left in a legal limbo if they just pay the collection notice?

The missing 2014 MF bill and subsequent past due notices will have to remain a mystery.
 

elaine

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
5,177
Reaction score
2,095
Points
648
Location
DC
Resorts Owned
HGVC Eagles Nest, DVC-AKV, HHI
I do not think that Spinnakker has a $1500 transfer fee. The $1500 is escrowed for up to 2 years of maintenance fees. There is a transfer fee, but it's not $1500.
here is the policy--I think the transfer fee has gone up somewhat.
_________________________

New Timeshare Transfer Policy for All Spinnaker Resorts
(Excluding Royal Floridian Resort, whose Board of Directors will vote on this policy at its next meeting)

Effective date: January 3, 2011
In order to ensure that accurate information is provided to the association regarding new timeshare owners, as well as to ensure timely payment of maintenance fees from new timeshare owners, the following policy has been adopted by the Board of Directors of the Association regarding the sale or transfer of a timeshare interval to a third party:

1. Written notice of the pending transfer must be sent by the closing attorney or transfer company to Southwind Management Corp. (management agent for the Association; hereinafter, "SMC") of the pending transfer, which notice MUST include the following information:

A. Name of the present owner of the timeshare interval, along with the unit and week number of the timeshare interval;
B. Name of new owner(s);
C. Street address and mailing address of new owner;
D. E-mail address of new owner;
E. Social security number or federal taxpayer identification number of new owner (as applicable);
F. First year of usage of new owner;
G. Anticipated date of closing/transfer.
2. Upon receipt of the information described in Section ONE above, SMC will advise the closing attorney or transfer company (in writing) of any maintenance fees and/or special assessments due from the present owner to the association (for the current year and prior year's maintenance fees). All such unpaid maintenance fees MUST be paid in order for the transfer of the timeshare interval to the new owner to be valid and recognized by the Association.

3. Upon completion of the transfer of the timeshare interval from the present owner to the new owner, the following documents AND funds MUST be sent to SMC at Post Office Box 6685, Hilton Head Island, SC 29938, Attention: Karen Geiger in order for the Association to accept the new owner as the rightful owner of the timeshare interval in your Timeshare Resort:
A. A copy of the recorded deed to the timeshare interval (to evidence the transfer of the timeshare interval to the new owner);
B. Transfer fee of $125.00 payable to Southwind Management Corp. and;
C. Prepaid maintenance fees in the amount of $1,500.00 for annual usage timeshare intervals OR $750.00 for odd/even/triennial usage timeshare intervals (via certified check or law firm trust account check) payable to your Owners Association.
4. In the event that the new owner of the timeshare interval is a CORPORATION OR A LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY, the following documentation must ALSO be sent to SMC with the items identified in Section THREE above:
A. Articles of Incorporation, Articles of Organization, or other filed formation documents for the entity which is the new owner;
B. Corporate Resolution identifying the officers and directors of the entity (including names, addresses, telephone numbers, and e-mail addresses of each officer and director);
C. Corporate Resolution appointing the specific person who is to act as the authorized agent on behalf of the entity to sign documents and serve as the contact person (include name, address, telephone number, and e-mail address of the authorized agent);
D. Certificate of Good Standing (dated within 30 days) from the state of formation; and
E. Most recently filed Federal tax return.
5. In the event that the new owner of the timeshare interval is a TRUST, the following documentation must ALSO be sent to SMC with the items identified in Section THREE above:
A. Certificate of Authority ( certificate must include the name of the trust, the date of formation of the trust, the names & addresses of the trustees, and reference to the section of the trust which identifies that the trust can own or lease real estate; the Certificate of Authority must be signed by the current trustee(s) of the trust).
All past due and current maintenance fees, special assessments (if any), prepaid maintenance fees and transfer fees (as described above) must be paid in full in conjunction with the transfer, or the transfer will not be considered valid by the association or SMC. Compliance with the transfer policy (as set forth herein and as may be modified in the future) is mandatory on and after January 3, 2011. Non-compliance with the mandatory transfer policy will result in the transfer being invalid and of no effect, and the present owner will remain liable for all future maintenance fees for the timeshare interval until compliance with the mandatory transfer policy occurs.

REGARDING THE PREPAID MAINTENANCE FEES: SMC (as management agent for the Association) will hold the prepaid maintenance fee collected for the benefit of the new owner. As each year's maintenance fee is assessed to the new owner (on an annual, biennial or triennial basis, based upon the type of timeshare interval acquired by the new owner), said amount will be debited from the prepaid maintenance fee; after the entire amount of the prepaid maintenance fee is applied toward assessed maintenance fees, the new owner will be invoiced for the balance of the then-due maintenance fee (and all subsequently assessed maintenance fees). The amount of prepaid maintenance fees collected does not reflect a particular number of maintenance fees for a particular number of years; therefore, the prepaid maintenance fees will be a credit on the new owner's account and used as such; at such time as the prepaid maintenance fee credit is exhausted, the balance for said year's maintenance fee (and subsequent year's maintenance fees) due from the new owner will be invoiced to the new owner.

The EXCEPTIONS to the above policy are as follows: (a) Inter-family transfers; (b) Transfers from individuals to their trusts for estate planning purposes; and (c) Original transfer from developer to first owner.

This transfer policy may be modified in the future, in whole or in part, in the discretion of the Board of Directors of the Association.
 
Last edited:

DeniseM

Moderator
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
57,739
Reaction score
9,148
Points
1,849
Resorts Owned
WKORV, WKV, 2-SDO, 4-Kauai Beach Villas, Island Park Village (Yellowstone), Hyatt High Sierra, Dolphin's Cove (Anaheim)
Why is Summer Winds using Timeshare Trade-In and creating these situations?

This happens all the time in Mexico - it makes the buyer think they are getting a big discount...

Why didn't Southwinds send a letter to those involved explaining to, "contact TSTI, demand a refund, and demand they deed the unit back into her name(assuming they have actually filed the paperwork to transfer it). once this is completed, she mentioned they would send her a QC deed and accept her interval back." instead of freaking out the owners by sending it to collections?

The missing 2014 MF bill and subsequent past due notices will have to remain a mystery.

I'm not convinced that they didn't - remember the OP said she, "couldn't remember," if she got a 2014 MF bill, and she was unclear about the sequence of events.

If they were firmly convinced that they had safely transferred the deed, they may have just over-looked any notices.
 
Last edited:

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
I do not think that Spinnakker has a $1500 transfer fee. The $1500 is escrowed for up to 2 years of maintenance fees. There is a transfer fee, but it's not $1500.

ah, im not sure if this is valid or not. I only saw reference to it on a recent successful sale.

it was just listed as "resort transfer fee of $1500 paid by seller"

perhaps this prepaid MF is refunded to the seller the moment the new owner pays his 1st years mf?
 

Passepartout

TUG Review Crew: Veteran
TUG Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
28,501
Reaction score
17,264
Points
1,299
Location
Twin Falls, Eye-Duh-Hoe
Now, IF TSTI will actually re-deed this contract back into the name of the OP. Remember, she was of the understanding that there was some consideration involved- that is she was 'trading-in' this unwanted TS.

One can demand until the cows come home, but actually getting them to act may be something else. It might be a good time to get the Mo. AG's office involved.
 

elaine

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
5,177
Reaction score
2,095
Points
648
Location
DC
Resorts Owned
HGVC Eagles Nest, DVC-AKV, HHI
edited prior post to include Spinnaker transfer policy. $1500 is prepaid maintenance fees. Transfer fee was still $125 in 2013.
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
well, if it were me...id certainly make the point that the contract (hopefully) states that a condition of her buying the stormy point resort was that she was no longer the owner of the french quarter resort....
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
hopefully the owner would not be subjected to a prepaid maintenance fee if she is deeding the unit back to the resort itself.
 

Rent_Share

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
5,091
Reaction score
3
Points
473
Location
SOCAL (562)
If I were an owner, I would have a problem trying to sell, with 2 + years being required to be prepaid , while similar properties requiring zero to one year depending on the month of transfer. I doubt that the sub development documents or the recorded CC&R's support such a change in the required prepayment of Maintenance Fees

I would be equally distressed by a blanket refusal to transfer to any non-human legal entity. (validation that the LLC or other entity has an appropriate business purpose, other than a vehicle for holding title and liquidating, would be legal as long as the review process was orderly, not arbitrary.

YMMV
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
I can agree with that as a blanket statement, resorts should not be able to block a transfer JUST because its not to an individual while doing no other research or investigation into said entity.

however I have zero problems with a resort/hoa/mgt company refusing to transfer ownership to an entity KNOWN to abandon timeshares.
 

Rent_Share

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
5,091
Reaction score
3
Points
473
Location
SOCAL (562)
I can agree with that as a blanket statement, resorts should not be able to block a transfer JUST because its not to an individual while doing no other research or investigation into said entity.

however I have zero problems with a resort/hoa/mgt company refusing to transfer ownership to an entity KNOWN to abandon timeshares.

And the appropriate response to the blocked/impaired PCC should be "So Sue Me"
 

TUGBrian

Administrator
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
22,151
Reaction score
7,740
Points
1,099
Location
Florida
no need to sue them, they can just do exactly what this company did...and block the ownership transfer.
 

VacationForever

TUG Review Crew
TUG Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
16,254
Reaction score
10,686
Points
1,048
Location
Somewhere Out There
My brain freezes trying to read all the posts and I won't even trying to read them all, but shouldn't OP sue/take up the case with Timeshare Trade-In LLC for the saga?
 

Egret1986

TUG Review Crew: Expert
TUG Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2005
Messages
4,021
Reaction score
560
Points
499
Location
Coastal Southeast Virginia
Kudos to you, Brian, for stepping in and making the calls to the two MGT companies

The OP may have messed up (or not) previously, but she sure made a good decision to come to TUG for help. TUG, as always, is an awesome resource. There has been quite a bit of snippiness and unnecessary back-and-forth in this ongoing thread, but you are truly trying to get to the facts and come up with some concrete information and assistance for the OP.

It was great to hear that SouthWind Management is aware of TUG and refers owners. That, in and of itself, says something positive about this Group.
 

Rent_Share

TUG Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
5,091
Reaction score
3
Points
473
Location
SOCAL (562)
no need to sue them, they can just do exactly what this company did...and block the ownership transfer.

and if the PCC has an issue with that block, the PCC can sue the HOA and explain to a judge how their business model is not a fraudulent transfer, is what I was saying.
 
Top