[2015] Disney replaces US tech workers with foreign replacements.

[billymach4]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/u...t-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0

There are plenty of tech US tech jobs, but this practice by US companies is now getting abusive. Unfortunately I personally don't know how to stop or slow down the Big Companies from this cycle.

They are also setting up offices offshore and staffing up back offices in foreign countries for a fraction of a US based salary.

It is not just Disney.

 

[Tacoma]

Canada also has the temporary foreign worker program. At first it was for skilled labor for positions Canadians could not fill. Then it became any skill level for positions supposedly Canadians don't want. Alberta has a lot of these workers since until recently our economy was booming. Some of the biggest employers were the fast food chains like Tim Horton's, A + W, and McDonald's. I went into a Tim Horton's in DT Edmonton last summer and not one Caucasian worker to be seen. This is when students are not in school and should want to work. We are cutting back on the program and I know many temporary foreign workers did not get their contracts renewed. People are worried these fast food places will have to either raise wages or not stay open 24 hours. My argument is do we really need all Tim Horton's open 24 hours? If we do maybe the wages need to increase. Hopefully this is not too political for this forum I tried to stick to facts.

Joan

 

[am1]

I read this as well today. No need to comment further on it.

 

[tompalm]

The sad thing is that most overseas support people are not very good. Time Warner has an office in Pureto Rico and they continue to provide wrong info when I call them and I have to wait on hold for 20 minutes to get that poor service. Hawaiian Airlines and other companies use Manila in the Philipines. They are all nice but don't have the authority to correct things when something is wrong and often don't know the right answer. On a positive note, Tmobile is using support people in the U.S. and they are really good.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Comcast is one of the WORST - they have trained the off shore workers to claim they are in the US. REALLY! I then ask where as Comcast's corporate headquarters is only about 15 miles as the crow flies from my house ...

It turns out they are working on the former Clark Air Force in the Philippines ... the accent gives them away. Can do nothing, stall you for days with "appointments to fix whatever, no shows, pole stops, fake adjustments to bills" and the list goes on.

My local Comcast site USED to be the main building for our "county located" original cable company back in the late 1970. I know too much about cable construction and the terms due to those experiences. I call them out on it still - my CableTV was out but "fixed" on Saturday ... with a "pole filter" removed and to have been replaced on Sunday. Then it has been showers & rain most of the week ... let me say, I have been several times a day calling "Clark AF" base .... supposedly a service call yesterday ... no show and no phone call; another today between 11 and 1PM. Comcast has given me a $20 credit on my bill wall and is supposedly adjusting my down days, with credit for my internet ... And they keep telling me - it has been fixed (remotely).

What they want to fixed is my CableTV package from Basic to (double the basic price) ... I downsized the TV selections last year .... but kept Premium internet....

Do the words "MickyD's" $1 menu mean anything to anyone? Or Subway's free internet for a late lunch?

Got the robo call to "confirm" my appointment with Comcast for between 11-1PM. Think I will get over to Staples and get a NEWER modem ... buy is cheaper than the $!0 plus TAX monthly rental.... and if the service technician CLAIMS that is the problem, he can install my new one and PROVE it to me....

 

[pedro47]

Money and profits are driving these trends.

 

[Dori]

I had huge problems dealing with our phone company, Bell. During the ice storms over Christmas,2014, or phone was out from December20-January 22. Trying to deal with agents in India was a nightmare.

I learned to request a supervisor as soon as the call was answered, and the rep then was obligated to transfer my call back to Canada.

Dori

 

[lizap]

This has got to stop. This will continue until we as consumers vote with our business. Will be dropping AT&T soon because of poor service..

I had huge problems dealing with our phone company, Bell. During the ice storms over Christmas,2014, or phone was out from December20-January 22. Trying to deal with agents in India was a nightmare.

I learned to request a supervisor as soon as the call was answered, and the rep then was obligated to transfer my call back to Canada.

Dori

 

[PigsDad]

Money and profits are driving these trends.

And the constant consumer demand for the cheapest price possible.

It's the nature of the game.

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

This has got to stop. This will continue until we as consumers vote with our business. Will be dropping AT&T soon because of poor service..

Yes, this will continue until consumers are willing to pay more for a higher-quality product in these areas where there is plenty of competition.

Midwest Airlines is a prime example. They clearly had a better product (first-class style seats in all their planes), but they could not reduce their prices to match the other airlines who cram people into planes like cattle. The general population was not willing to pay a bit more for a better flight experience, so Midwest is no longer.

If you really care about high levels of customer service or using only American workers, look at yourself in the mirror next time you step into that Walmart, or search for that lowest fare possible.

The only way any of this changes is if consumers demand it, back up with their dollars. I don't see that happening any time soon.

Kurt

 

[Passepartout]

It isn't just Disney. It's every business. Mom n' Pop retail is scared to death of Amazon. No cruise line hires US workers or operates strictly in US ports so they don't have to conform to US 'Wage and Hour' rules. Businesses are moving offshore, with only the barest essentials- and the bulk of their income- produced inside the country. And now the powers that be want even broader 'free trade' so that American workers can compete 'head to head' with workers making $2 a day.

If you want to lay blame, it belongs to all of us. How often have we all looked at an item in our local Ace Hardware, or shoe store, or increasingly, even the neighborhood grocer, and said to no one in particular, "Hmmmf, I can get that on Amazon, and have it tomorrow or the next day, and save $XX"

Welcome to the new shrunken world.

Jim

 

[Elan]

The class of people that are willing to pay, or are capable of paying marginally more for marginally better product or service keeps getting smaller. We're left with "perhaps better, but ultra-expensive" and "the rest", where price is the main differentiator.

 

[PigsDad]

The class of people that are willing to pay, or are capable of paying marginally more for marginally better product or service keeps getting smaller. We're left with "perhaps better, but ultra-expensive" and "the rest", where price is the main differentiator.

I'm not sure if I fully agree with this. I think the biggest change is the priorities we put on different services and goods. Today's middle class complains that they have to get the lowest price on anything, forcing manufactures to outsource, but at the same time will not blink an eye at spending several hundreds of dollars PER MONTH for the family of four's iPhones. 20 or more years ago this expense didn't exist, along with other "must-have" things that people cannot fathom to live without -- cable / on-demand TV, broadband internet, larger houses, a car for every family member, etc. A huge amount of the average person's budget today goes for things that were considered a luxury or not even available a few decades ago (but of course, now we expect these things). Of course more people felt less financially squeezed out of the middle class in the past -- we used to be happy with less stuff.

Kurt

 

[lizap]

Most of these businesses are making plenty of money. Take a look at what the CEOs of some of these companies make. It is pure greed (for the most part) that is driving them to stick it to consumers and employees. I got rid of Charter and now am getting rid of AT&T (also got rid of our Citibank card, as it got too difficult to get 2 FC award seats); this will continue until we vote by taking our business elsewhere.

And the constant consumer demand for the cheapest price possible.

It's the nature of the game.

Kurt

 

[Tia]

It should be illegal to fire citizens and bring in Visa workers to replace them. Next it could be you/me :annoyed:

 

[Tia]

Relative used to do Comcast tech support via StarTek. Lost the contract and relative was shifted to another companies tech support. Relative doesn't make even $12/hr , plus now they want employees to wear business dress for work, no more jeans to talk/type to people over the phone/internet. They just also laid over 100 workers off and there are protests on the sidewalk in front of the bldg, been told not to talk to them or ... worrisome

Comcast is one of the WORST - they have trained the off shore workers to claim they are in the US. REALLY! I then ask where as Comcast's corporate headquarters is only about 15 miles as the crow flies from my house ...

It turns out they are working on the former Clark Air Force in the Philippines ... the accent gives them away. Can do nothing, stall you for days with "appointments to fix whatever, no shows, pole stops, fake adjustments to bills" and the list goes on.

My local Comcast site USED to be the main building for our "county located" original cable company back in the late 1970. I know too much about cable construction and the terms due to those experiences. I call them out on it still - my CableTV was out but "fixed" on Saturday ... with a "pole filter" removed and to have been replaced on Sunday. Then it has been showers & rain most of the week ... let me say, I have been several times a day calling "Clark AF" base .... supposedly a service call yesterday ... no show and no phone call; another today between 11 and 1PM. Comcast has given me a $20 credit on my bill wall and is supposedly adjusting my down days, with credit for my internet ... And they keep telling me - it has been fixed (remotely).

........

 

[vacationhopeful]

Relative used to do Comcast tech support via StarTek. Lost the contract and relative was shifted to another companies tech support. Relative doesn't make even $12/hr , plus now they want employees to wear business dress for work, no more jeans to talk/type to people over the phone/internet. They just also laid over 100 workers off and there are protests on the sidewalk in front of the bldg, been told not to talk to them or ... worrisome

My Comcast repair tech at house for over 90 minutes told me the Clark Air Force support contract is ending - support is supposed to be moved back to US - Delaware & South Jersey. Seems TOO MANY customer complaints - REALLY?

Cable and TV are BOTH now working ... only cost me $201 and 2 weeks of nonexistent to BAD cableTV and internet service and 20+ hours on the PHONE/repair waiting/repair time of my LIFE which I will never get back!

 

[krj9999]

Assuming the NYT article is accurate, this practice is going way beyond what H1-B1 was set up to achieve - and there needs to be a better way for affected employees to files complaints. Best advice would be to call or write your Senators and Congressperson to voice your displeasure.

Perhaps Disney should consider reducing executive compensation if they want to save a few dollars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/u...t-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0

There are plenty of tech US tech jobs, but this practice by US companies is now getting abusive. Unfortunately I personally don't know how to stop or slow down the Big Companies from this cycle.

They are also setting up offices offshore and staffing up back offices in foreign countries for a fraction of a US based salary.

It is not just Disney.

 

[lizap]

The problem is Disney will never do this because people won't vote with their $$ and stop going..

Assuming the NYT article is accurate, this practice is going way beyond what H1-B1 was set up to achieve - and there needs to be a better way for affected employees to files complaints. Best advice would be to call or write your Senators and Congressperson to voice your displeasure.

Perhaps Disney should consider reducing executive compensation if they want to save a few dollars.

 

[billymach4]

So what bothers me as well about this is that Disney is not hurting for cash. In fact they are very well skilled at attracting visitors to WDW, and visitors are willing to spend cash freely to enter and enjoy the parks.

I know that other large companies are importing skilled tech workers, and setting up shop offshore. Those companies are advised by the likes of Boston Consulting, and other such think tanks to consider the offshore angle. It does save them money on skilled tech labor. However I am not at all in favor of the practice. More domestic Americans need to fill these jobs.

I am not talking about call centers either where someone can read and speak English from a computer monitor screen. Nor am I directing this towards any one English speaking country such as India.

I am concerned for the experienced highly skilled technical Java Developer, Front End Web Developer, Database professional. These jobs pay in the 6 figure salary in the USA. Offshore salaries can go for about 20% of the US salary.

The next economic downturn may see an exodus of tech jobs overseas, just like the manufacturing sector did in the 70's.

Not too pretty.

 

[billymach4]

Oh and another thing..... H1B abuse... I have no proof of this but...... I am sure most large companies keep good records and follow the rules, and document the H1B worker.

However as you all know there are going to be bad apples that ruin the party. I am sure there are places where the H1B usage is not applied as intended.

 

[PigsDad]

I know that other large companies are importing skilled tech workers, and setting up shop offshore. Those companies are advised by the likes of Boston Consulting, and other such think tanks to consider the offshore angle. It does save them money on skilled tech labor. However I am not at all in favor of the practice. More domestic Americans need to fill these jobs.

I am not talking about call centers either where someone can read and speak English from a computer monitor screen. Nor am I directing this towards any one English speaking country such as India.

I am concerned for the experienced highly skilled technical Java Developer, Front End Web Developer, Database professional. These jobs pay in the 6 figure salary in the USA. Offshore salaries can go for about 20% of the US salary.

The next economic downturn may see an exodus of tech jobs overseas, just like the manufacturing sector did in the 70's.

Not too pretty.

Not sure where you are getting your information, Billy, but you are over a decade off. All of that has already happened -- outsourcing has been used heavily since the early 2000's. I am in "the biz" and have had friend put in the situation 10+ years ago where they had to train up their replacement in India before they were laid off (if they refused, they didn't get their severance package).

While this still happens, the tide has actually turned the other way a bit. Outsourcing to India, China, South America, Eastern Block, etc. was the "in" thing to do after the dot-com bubble burst in 2000. A ton of what upper-management thought was software engineering (but it was really just "programming") was moved from the states to those other countries; especially India and China.

My Fortune 25 company first started moving software development jobs to India, and then shifted to China as wages in India were rising quickly. But then guess what -- the productivity we got out of those divisions never rose to the level that they expected, and they finally realized it was not the right solution to blindly move development of full products to the low-cost countries. In fact, just last year my organization shut down our China group (over 100 people of our ~500-person group) and replaced those jobs with engineers in the US, Ireland and Germany!

The pendulum will continue to swing back and forth, but I think a lot of companies have realized there are certain types of work (technical services, generic "programming", etc.) that is a better fit for "off-shoring" to the low-cost countries, but the R&D, innovation, etc. is where the US and Europe still excels and is best left "on-shore".

BTW, from the article it sounds like the jobs Disney was replacing fit more into the technical services (just keeping the systems running) vs. any real R&D type jobs.

Kurt

 

[billymach4]

Not sure where you are getting your information, Billy, but you are over a decade off. All of that has already happened -- outsourcing has been used heavily since the early 2000's. I am in "the biz" and have had friend put in the situation 10+ years ago where they had to train up their replacement in India before they were laid off (if they refused, they didn't get their severance package).

While this still happens, the tide has actually turned the other way a bit. Outsourcing to India, China, South America, Eastern Block, etc. was the "in" thing to do after the dot-com bubble burst in 2000. A ton of what upper-management thought was software engineering (but it was really just "programming") was moved from the states to those other countries; especially India and China.

My Fortune 25 company first started moving software development jobs to India, and then shifted to China as wages in India were rising quickly. But then guess what -- the productivity we got out of those divisions never rose to the level that they expected, and they finally realized it was not the right solution to blindly move development of full products to the low-cost countries. In fact, just last year my organization shut down our China group (over 100 people of our ~500-person group) and replaced those jobs with engineers in the US, Ireland and Germany!

The pendulum will continue to swing back and forth, but I think a lot of companies have realized there are certain types of work (technical services, generic "programming", etc.) that is a better fit for "off-shoring" to the low-cost countries, but the R&D, innovation, etc. is where the US and Europe still excels and is best left "on-shore".

BTW, from the article it sounds like the jobs Disney was replacing fit more into the technical services (just keeping the systems running) vs. any real R&D type jobs.

Kurt

Kurt,

Thanks for the dose of reality. Glad to hear that there is a voice of reason out there and that the pendulum swings. This is the type of issue that you really can't get a good measure on. Nobody has any way of keeping up with the stats on the fluidity of offshoring.

In any event even if the jobs at Disney are just operational (tech services) I still don't like when US jobs are replaced by non US nationals.

 

[WinniWoman]

It isn't just Disney. It's every business. Mom n' Pop retail is scared to death of Amazon. No cruise line hires US workers or operates strictly in US ports so they don't have to conform to US 'Wage and Hour' rules. Businesses are moving offshore, with only the barest essentials- and the bulk of their income- produced inside the country. And now the powers that be want even broader 'free trade' so that American workers can compete 'head to head' with workers making $2 a day.

If you want to lay blame, it belongs to all of us. How often have we all looked at an item in our local Ace Hardware, or shoe store, or increasingly, even the neighborhood grocer, and said to no one in particular, "Hmmmf, I can get that on Amazon, and have it tomorrow or the next day, and save $XX"

Welcome to the new shrunken world.

Jim

Right, Jim. But, unfortunately, for most people that is because their incomes are stagnant and they are forced to buy inexpensive. If you have no work, or haven't has a raise in years, etc., this is what happens. It is a revolving door.

Of course, even in good times companies were doing this.... I am the product of a generation where every one of my employers except two, were taken over/merged by/with foreign companies and then there were layoffs- I never knew what a secure job was. No union to help- nothing- no pensions, no anything really...

I did get really good at job search and interviewing, though!

 

[Bucky]

The problem is Disney will never do this because people won't vote with their $$ and stop going..

People will never vote their $$. They complain but won't vote! Prime example is the ludicrous salaries we pay our sports stars! Everyone complains about the ball player making $25 million a year yet they still pony up to buy the tickets. The same applies to most products and services out there. I know I will shop Amazon or EBay before going to a local retailer. By the time I consider my time, gas and aggravation of traffic trying to get there, I can already have purchased it, usually at a cheaper price and be on to my next project.