[2016] Account review email [Accts. suspended]

[ronparise]

True, but the car rental place works in a true market-driven economy. If the car rental company has lazy IT guidelines and they end up giving away reservations, this will either drive them out of business, or require that they fix their IT problem to stay competitive. Now, if they are instead a whole owned company, say a military owned car rental company, and they have the same lazy guidelines, the military picks up the tab, and the net effect is that the military and its "owners" (us) pay for the poor management. Once we became owners, Wyndham timeshare division is no longer in a true market-driven economy. And that is part of the problem, they have little incentive to quickly and efficiently fix the problem when the unknowing owners simply have to pick up the tab.

I disagree, but it really doesn't matter

At the end of the day one or the other of wyndhams constituencies (or both) will be hurt. it will cost us customers a little more or Wyndhams stock holders will make a little less

 

[wjappraise]

I disagree, but it really doesn't matter

At the end of the day one or the other of wyndhams constituencies (or both) will be hurt. it will cost us customers a little more or Wyndhams stock holders will make a little less

Good point, Ron. Either way, whatever money is being spent has not resolved a "less than two week" problem in five months. Ridiculous.

 

[happyhopian]

but you did get some action.. you can use your account and take your group on vacation.. What more is there to talk about?

Sure I get regular calls and emails and even face to face meetings but I am still locked out of my accounts... I would much prefer to be in your position... (not Adam's)

Ron did I misread your earlier post where you stated that you and Wyndham had mutually resolved your problems because I read here that you are still locked out. Are you resolved or not resolved?

 

[ronparise]

Ron did I misread your earlier post where you stated that you and Wyndham had mutually resolved your problems because I read here that you are still locked out. Are you resolved or not resolved?

we have resolved our differences

 

[tschwa2]

I know Ron can't comment on this but the resolution could have been that his account remain locked for an agreed amount of time which could be temporary or it could be forever.

 

[raygo123]

Ron did I misread your earlier post where you stated that you and Wyndham had mutually resolved your problems because I read here that you are still locked out. Are you resolved or not resolved?

The question was previously asked and answered. It's back a couple hundred posts ago.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[am1]

Guest names can only be added up until January 31. Overlapping reservations are subject to cancellation within 15 days of check in. Does not seem right that Wyndham plays these games.

 

[wjappraise]

Guest names can only be added up until January 31. Overlapping reservations are subject to cancellation within 15 days of check in. Does not seem right that Wyndham plays these games.

Can you make new reservations, even via phone call? Or do anything online?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wjappraise]

Well, as of yesterday, I have started the SIXTH month of my suspended account status, albeit I now have some "thawed" features, I still cannot add more contracts, or sell contracts from my account. Nor can I do Credit Pool, or a few other items.

All of this begs the question: "Has ANYONE who was suspended been FULLY reconciled and restored to full function?" Or all we all either where I am, or where Adam (am1) is, or when Ron is? In other words, either up in the air or out of the game.

 

[jediinprescott]

OK fellow problem kids. I think my case has finally been "resolved". For the past 5 weeks my account has been audited by a person in owner care. As I mentioned in earlier posts I was not getting anywhere as many of you have experienced. Finally I was contacted by a young man who said he was working my account and would keep me in the loop as he progressed. As I expected 1) I had more points in my account than I ever owned at the end of the year and 2) I had over spent my 2016 account as I was using the point summary as my reference. Obviously I stopped doing any bookings in late October because I ( and Wyndham) really had no clue on how many points I really had available. In spite of calls and discussions with owner care...nobody really knew. I asked for an audit early on to try to resolve and they also reported an erroneous figure which was way different from the point summary. Very frustrating.
Fast forward to last week...the huge 2016 excess had disappeared on Dec 31. Great...now we deal with the overspent issue. You all will not be surprised to hear that although Wyndham acknowledges they have a problem and don't know what it is or how to fix it, they are not taking ANY responsibility . They were not willing to do any negotiation and advised that they will be taking action to recover the amount of overspent points. I will say they were gracious enough to allow me to decide where the recovering points would come from 2017 or 2018. I elected un-yet booked 2017 points for most with the balance from 2018. As much as I argued they kept using the bank erroneous deposit and subsequent take back. In the end I don't think I lost much except for the stress and aggravation factor. I was not given a "gag" order and would be willing to answer any Tugger questions. I was told the case is closed. By the way I have never credit pooled, so I don't think that's the problem. I have cancelled/rebooked numerous times, so I suspect the computer program is having a problem in that area. My advice to all is keep a manual point status until things improve.
Feeling totally melted,
Mike

 

[ecwinch]

OK fellow problem kids. I think my case has finally been "resolved". For the past 5 weeks my account has been audited by a person in owner care. As I mentioned in earlier posts I was not getting anywhere as many of you have experienced. Finally I was contacted by a young man who said he was working my account and would keep me in the loop as he progressed. As I expected 1) I had more points in my account than I ever owned at the end of the year and 2) I had over spent my 2016 account as I was using the point summary as my reference. Obviously I stopped doing any bookings in late October because I ( and Wyndham) really had no clue on how many points I really had available. In spite of calls and discussions with owner care...nobody really knew. I asked for an audit early on to try to resolve and they also reported an erroneous figure which was way different from the point summary. Very frustrating.
Fast forward to last week...the huge 2016 excess had disappeared on Dec 31. Great...now we deal with the overspent issue. You all will not be surprised to hear that although Wyndham acknowledges they have a problem and don't know what it is or how to fix it, they are not taking ANY responsibility . They were not willing to do any negotiation and advised that they will be taking action to recover the amount of overspent points. I will say they were gracious enough to allow me to decide where the recovering points would come from 2017 or 2018. I elected un-yet booked 2017 points for most with the balance from 2018. As much as I argued they kept using the bank erroneous deposit and subsequent take back. In the end I don't think I lost much except for the stress and aggravation factor. I was not given a "gag" order and would be willing to answer any Tugger questions. I was told the case is closed. By the way I have never credit pooled, so I don't think that's the problem. I have cancelled/rebooked numerous times, so I suspect the computer program is having a problem in that area. My advice to all is keep a manual point status until things improve.
Feeling totally melted,
Mike

Mike - thanks for that report.

Were they able to "prove" to your satisfaction the amount they are clawing back from your acct?

 

[wjappraise]

You all will not be surprised to hear that although Wyndham acknowledges they have a problem and don't know what it is or how to fix it, they are not taking ANY responsibility . They were not willing to do any negotiation and advised that they will be taking action to recover the amount of overspent points.

Thanks, Mike.

I echo Eric's concern. Given the fact that THEIR system of counting points is clearly flawed, is it really advisable to accept their final tally? This sounds more like a "shakedown" than a reconciliation. Maybe some of this needs to play out in a court room. Or at least with proper representation.

 

[ace2000]

Thanks, Mike.

I echo Eric's concern. Given the fact that THEIR system of counting points is clearly flawed, is it really advisable to accept their final tally? This sounds more like a "shakedown" than a reconciliation. Maybe some of this needs to play out in a court room. Or at least with proper representation.

So far, those threats, which have been repeated over and over again thoughout this thread, doesn't appear to have Wyndham trembling in fear right now.

But, I wish you well.

 

[jediinprescott]

Mike - thanks for that report.

Where they able to "prove" to your satisfaction the amount they are clawing back from your acct?

Eric
Best I can determine they are pretty accurate in determining how much I overspent. I was able to reconstruct most of what was used by me and renters. Once I did that I really had no significant argument other than I was frozen for so long...I actually did use the overspent points. Better record keeping until they fix the root problem.
Mike

 

[Bigrob]

Eric
Best I can determine they are pretty accurate in determining how much I overspent. I was able to reconstruct most of what was used by me and renters. Once I did that I really had no significant argument other than I was frozen for so long...I actually did use the overspent points. Better record keeping until they fix the root problem.
Mike

At the very least I believe you would have an argument regarding the use of the "overspent" points - as they were showing in your account with an expiration that may have caused you to use them in a less than ideal manner rather than let them expire. The "erroneous bank statement" argument is not directly analogous, because the "extra" funds in the bank account don't come with an expiration date, and all the dollar bills are the same.

The combination of being over-charged for guest confirmations while you were locked out of online access, plus the missed opportunity to use your points and ARP for a long period of time, along with the aforementioned issue, to me would be grounds for a substantially different settlement.

Nonetheless, I am glad to hear that someone has gotten through the process and is fully restored/melted. Congratulations on that, I'm sure it's a weight off of your shoulders.

 

[ronparise]

At the very least I believe you would have an argument regarding the use of the "overspent" points - as they were showing in your account with an expiration that may have caused you to use them in a less than ideal manner rather than let them expire. The "erroneous bank statement" argument is not directly analogous, because the "extra" funds in the bank account don't come with an expiration date, and all the dollar bills are the same.

The combination of being over-charged for guest confirmations while you were locked out of online access, plus the missed opportunity to use your points and ARP for a long period of time, along with the aforementioned issue, to me would be grounds for a substantially different settlement.

Nonetheless, I am glad to hear that someone has gotten through the process and is fully restored/melted. Congratulations on that, I'm sure it's a weight off of your shoulders.

make whatever argument you can, but remember until you and wyndham agree, nothing will happen.

 

[jediinprescott]

At the very least I believe you would have an argument regarding the use of the "overspent" points - as they were showing in your account with an expiration that may have caused you to use them in a less than ideal manner rather than let them expire. The "erroneous bank statement" argument is not directly analogous, because the "extra" funds in the bank account don't come with an expiration date, and all the dollar bills are the same.

The combination of being over-charged for guest confirmations while you were locked out of online access, plus the missed opportunity to use your points and ARP for a long period of time, along with the aforementioned issue, to me would be grounds for a substantially different settlement.

Nonetheless, I am glad to hear that someone has gotten through the process and is fully restored/melted. Congratulations on that, I'm sure it's a weight off of your shoulders.

Bigrob
For what it's worth, I was never charged for guest certs as apparently some others were. I think I still had some available. Also I had already made most of the reservations for the year when the freeze hit. My only real issues were only being able to add guest certs in 15 day increments which was eventually lifted and not being able to cnx/rebook. Probably cost me some points which apparently I didn't really have anyway.
Mike

 

[wjappraise]

At the very least I believe you would have an argument regarding the use of the "overspent" points - as they were showing in your account with an expiration that may have caused you to use them in a less than ideal manner rather than let them expire. The "erroneous bank statement" argument is not directly analogous, because the "extra" funds in the bank account don't come with an expiration date, and all the dollar bills are the same.

The combination of being over-charged for guest confirmations while you were locked out of online access, plus the missed opportunity to use your points and ARP for a long period of time, along with the aforementioned issue, to me would be grounds for a substantially different settlement.

Nonetheless, I am glad to hear that someone has gotten through the process and is fully restored/melted. Congratulations on that, I'm sure it's a weight off of your shoulders.

Wouldn't it also seem appropriate that Wyndham charge the "wholesale" rate for the points over used? In other words, if I have too many points left over and turn them into maintenance fees, I am given $2.10 per 1,000 points. Whereas, the "retail" rate I am charged for using the same points is about three times that. Seems that would be a fair method for compensation, which means it won't likely be used.

 

[jediinprescott]

Wouldn't it also seem appropriate that Wyndham charge the "wholesale" rate for the points over used? In other words, if I have too many points left over and turn them into maintenance fees, I am given $2.10 per 1,000 points. Whereas, the "retail" rate I am charged for using the same points is about three times that. Seems that would be a fair method for compensation, which means it won't likely be used.

That sounds like a good argument, however as Ron has always said points are points. There was no monetary exchange...only points retrieved.

 

[ecwinch]

At the very least I believe you would have an argument regarding the use of the "overspent" points - as they were showing in your account with an expiration that may have caused you to use them in a less than ideal manner rather than let them expire. The "erroneous bank statement" argument is not directly analogous, because the "extra" funds in the bank account don't come with an expiration date, and all the dollar bills are the same.

This is the "detrimental reliance" defense - that you relied on their accounting to be correct, and should not suffer hardship due to that reliance.
I certainly would offer it up, it's not a strong hand IMHO.

 

[wjappraise]

This is the "detrimental reliance" defense - that you relied on their accounting to be correct, and should not suffer hardship due to that reliance.
I certainly would offer it up, it's not a strong hand IMHO.

Thanks for perspective, Eric. In your opinion, is there a strong hand to be used? Specifically, it appears from my experience as well as others, that Wyndham really has no idea what the correct point amounts in the account should be. For the situation that Mike outlined in his experience, it appears that Wyndham simply charted how many points he used in a given year, subtracted his contract amount, and came up with the "overage" that they charged him for.

In my first "interview" with Wyndham way back in August, this was their approach to my account. However, I pointed out that a had four different use years, which allowed me to roll forward points from year to year. Additionally, when I sold some contracts, they were transferred to the new owners without current use year points, even though I had plenty in my account. In those instances, I tried to get Wyndham to transfer the points to the new owner, and was not successful. The selling broker then simply had me reimburse the new owners for the maintenance fees for the missing points. In one instance, it was the current year AND the following year's points. In essence, this meant I would have more points than contracts would show. Couple this with several years of rolling points forward, and I could explain a sizable amount of the points overage. Of course, I had millions more points than that, which I attributed to Wyndham's faulty IT department. I have allowed those points to expire without using them, and I have kept screen shots on the final day of the use year to show what I surrendered.

I guess my suspicion is that Wyndham will use their simple methodology to come up with what my current use year points are, and attempt to ignore the points accumulation my records show. While I have used the screen shots to show what I have allowed to expire, I did not do that in prior years, when the amount of points was valid based upon the points rolling forward. So, I have a record of the points balance for prior years, but I do not have "proof" that a screen shot would provide. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks

 

[ecwinch]

Stating the obvious, I think we are at the mercy of Wyndham.

Like the bank error scenario, it is an issue of unjust enrichment. If you received more pts than you were supposed to receive, it is difficult to make a case that Wyndham is not entitled to recover those points.

Especially if you had some inkling that there was an error in your favor. Which pretty much applies to everyone affected that is following this thread.

The best counterpoint IMHO is asking for a audit trail of the exact amount. If - as you suspect - Wyndham cannot determine exactly when the error occurred, it weakens their position.

 

[jediinprescott]

Stating the obvious, I think we are at the mercy of Wyndham.

Like the bank error scenario, it is an issue of unjust enrichment. If you received more pts than you were supposed to receive, it is difficult to make a case that Wyndham is not entitled to recover those points.

Especially if you had some inkling that there was an error in your favor. Which pretty much applies to everyone affected that is following this thread.

The best counterpoint IMHO is asking for a audit trail of the exact amount. If - as you suspect - Wyndham cannot determine exactly when the error occurred, it weakens their position.

Eric
You are correct. As best as I can determine, even though the problem was created by Wyndham's pathetic accounting system, in the end I think the issue was fairly resolved to both party's satisfaction, discounting the heavy handiness and perceived threat. The aggravation factor also cannot be discounted. It could have been handled better given the status of most of the owners affected.
Mike

 

[wjappraise]

The best counterpoint IMHO is asking for a audit trail of the exact amount. If - as you suspect - Wyndham cannot determine exactly when the error occurred, it weakens their position.

Thanks, Eric. I do feel better knowing that my records with an exact starting balance of my points for January 1, 2016 is accurate. Likewise, the fact that I disclosed to Wyndham the irregularities with my account to Wyndham in January 2016 and again in March 2016 will hopefully hold some weight when they finally get around to reconciling my account.

I also have, as BigRob has suggested, kept track of how many guest reservation fees I had to pay, and the reservations I could not cancel due to the freeze on my account, and will use that in the process.

 

[am1]

Seems like Wyndham just does not care about us owners. Which owners will they target next? Last week the agents on the phone told me that the case specialist team wanted to get ahold of me and what number they could reach me at. They have my e-mail and contact number by the way. I offer a time and there was no call. No contact since.

We as owners need to be compensated for the increase in guest charge fees, needing to use 2, 3 or more guest confirmation fees for guests instead of 1 at times, not being able to book reservations, no upgrades, not being able to cancel reservations (late august) as well as when no one answers the phone or gives a call back within the hour has advertised, stress and not knowing what is going to happen. I have wanted to add my dad on as an owner for sometime and it would have been easy enough to do but not when they do not allow new contracts to be added to the accounts. Nor would I when the accounts are locked and I cannot use those points. I have been denied using my deeded rights at 13 months. Even with all of this I am still paying thousands of dollars in fees every month.