cancelled reservation - inquiry

[VXB9]

Hi all,

My first post here, I'm in a bind, hoping to get some guidance from this wise group
I rented a week from an owner through Redweek utilizing their standard contract, which was executed by both sides. At the time of our agreement I was able to independently confirm that I was indeed added to the reservation and everything was peachy.
Fast forward few months, I'm scheduled to check-in in October but I think the reservation now has been cancelled due to natural disasters in the south-east region.
Since I have an agreement with the owner I felt like I rightfully paid for a week that I should be able to utilize, but the owner tells me the unit has been fully transferred in my name and there is nothing she can do right now.
Naturally, I feel that if I paid for something I should be able to use it, bit instead I'm now out of few thousand dollars and no reservation / unit to use, which makes me very nervous.

Has anyone been in this situation, how can I reasonably address this?
I do have an executed contract but last thing I want to do is file a claim.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Deb

 

[RX8]

Are you sure the resort is/will be closed? What is the resort?

 

[VXB9]

Marriott Frenchmans Cove, supposedly closed until the end of the year.

 

[RX8]

Oh I see. Your post said south-east region so I was thinking continental US.

Not sure how Marriott is handling being unable to use the weeks. Hopefully a Marriott owner will be able to answer. If the owner gets some sort of credit then that should be passed to you in the form of a refund.

 

[tschwa2]

This is listed as 12 in the standard Redweek contract:

• 12 Renter acknowledges that the Owner is not responsible if the Renter is unable to use the Unit for any reason beyond Owner's reasonable control. Renter's inability to use the Unit during the term as result of illness, storms/weather, acts of God, airline interruptions, or any other factors beyond Owner’s control are the sole responsibility of the Renter. In such event, the Payment is non-refundable and shall be disbursed to Owner. Renter is encouraged to purchase trip interruption and cancellation insurance for such matters.

Unless your contract had other language about refunds due to this type of situation, I think you are out of luck.

 

[VXB9]

This is listed as 12 in the standard Redweek contract:

• 12 Renter acknowledges that the Owner is not responsible if the Renter is unable to use the Unit for any reason beyond Owner's reasonable control. Renter's inability to use the Unit during the term as result of illness, storms/weather, acts of God, airline interruptions, or any other factors beyond Owner’s control are the sole responsibility of the Renter. In such event, the Payment is non-refundable and shall be disbursed to Owner. Renter is encouraged to purchase trip interruption and cancellation insurance for such matters.

Unless your contract had other language about refunds due to this type of situation, I think you are out of luck.

Thanks for your input. This is the contract we used; I don't see such language.
https://www.redweek.com/resources/rental_process/rw_sample_rental_agreement.pdf

 

[MuranoJo]

I agree the owner/member shouldn't be expected to refund the money when a clear 'no cancellations' clause is in the contract. But, IMO, I'd give the money back to the renter because of Act-of-God situations like these hurricanes. Somehow it just doesn't seem right to walk away with the rental fee and leave the renter in the lurch.

However, if the renter had a change of plans, that's another story. My contract clearly states they should get travel insurance.

 

[tschwa2]

They did not use a very comprehensive agreement. I would never rent to the mid to lower Atlantic or Caribbean region anytime in the late summer or fall without clear language about weather and weather related closure information.

That being said if the owner (who in this case will likely receive no additional week or reimbursement from Marriott Vacation Club) refuses to refund the fee, you would have to go to the next level to dispute the charges. If you paid by credit card and or Pay Pal, I would start with the credit card and then move on to Pay Pal. If you paid by check or your dispute is unsuccessful, your next option would be to take legal action.

 

[theo]

Renter is encouraged to purchase trip interruption and cancellation insurance for such matters.

An entirely appropriate line for inclusion in any well prepared rental contract and good advice, but I see no such language in the 3 page RedWeek rental agreement posted by the OP. In any case, I am inclined to agree that the OP is likely just out of luck, by virtue of Marriott's own clear and specific terms.

How / why could there be such a significant difference in language within the same rental agreement obtained from the same source (i.e., RedWeek)?
I am curious to know when you retrieved the document you've quoted in part in post #5 vs. when OP obtained and executed the version cited in post #6.

 

[VXB9]

Out of curiosity, how does one even go about purchasing insurance for a unit rented from an owner? I'm a guest added to someone's reservation.

Perhaps my reasoning is off, but in my mind I have contacted an owner for a week to be used, which I paid for and did not cancel on my own will; a month prior to arrival my reservation is cancelled, not st my fault, and the owner feel that they just keep the money.
Unfortunate for all, but there has to be some sense of responsibility.

Small claims court might be an option for last resort, but I was hoping to reason with the owner first.

Thanks,
Deb

 

[RX8]

How / why could there be such a significant difference in language within the same rental agreement obtained from the same source (i.e., RedWeek)?
I am curious to know when you retrieved the document you've quoted in part in post #5 vs. when OP obtained and executed the version cited in post #6.

I believe the difference is that the OP's contract is the DIY rental contract and tschwa2's quote was from Redweek's full service rental contract.

Term #1 of the contract tschwa2 posted states "The Owner has contracted with RedWeek Real Estate, LLC (“RedWeek”), which serves as the processor of the transaction for the two parties and the sole arbiter."

 

[theo]

Out of curiosity, how does one even go about purchasing insurance for a unit rented from an owner? I'm a guest added to someone's reservation.

Perhaps my reasoning is off, but in my mind I have contacted an owner for a week to be used, which I paid for and did not cancel on my own will; a month prior to arrival my reservation is cancelled, not st my fault, and the owner feel that they just keep the money.
Unfortunate for all, but there has to be some sense of responsibility.

Small claims court might be an option for last resort, but I was hoping to reason with the owner first.

Trip cancellation insurance is available from Allianz, CSA, Vacation Guard, some credit card issuers and probably other avenues too. The fact that you are a timeshare guest instead of a timeshare owner does not in any way preclude or limit the availability of such insurance to you. Some timeshare owner-specific policies will also cover lost maintenance fees (...fees which, btw, your "landlord" will still be obligated to pay, regardless of the lost occupancy availability).

It is of course your personal decision to make, but (IMnsHO) you might not prevail in any legal action that you might choose to initiate. That being said however, it is certainly relevant and noteworthy that the "DIY" rental agreement you reportedly executed is surprisingly lame and woefully inadequate in failing completely to address in clear and specific detail any refund / cancellation policy for events entirely beyond the control of either the owner or the tenant.

This is neither intended as a recommendation nor as legal advice, but your "landlord" might consider as a compromise retaining the amount of their lost maintenance fees for the week at issue and voluntarily refunding to you the balance exceeding their incurred maintenance fee costs, but a (voluntary) 100% refund is probably (IMnsHO) an unrealistic expectation with little chance of fulfillment without your undertaking the effort and expense of legal action.

 

[tschwa2]

It's also called Vacation insurance. Before I knew about vacationing in timeshares and before the explosion of home rentals a la airbnb type places we used to do family home and condo rentals in Ocean City in late August. These rentals were in the $3000-$4000 range and we were fine with the possibility of rain and wind but if the house was uninhabitable due to storm damage or there was a mandatory evacuation of the area, vacation insurance provided peace of mind that we would get the money back.

 

[theo]

This is listed as 12 in the standard Redweek contract:

• 12 Renter acknowledges that the Owner is not responsible if the Renter is unable to use the Unit for any reason beyond Owner's reasonable control. Renter's inability to use the Unit during the term as result of illness, storms/weather, acts of God, airline interruptions, or any other factors beyond Owner’s control are the sole responsibility of the Renter. In such event, the Payment is non-refundable and shall be disbursed to Owner. Renter is encouraged to purchase trip interruption and cancellation insurance for such matters.

Unless your contract had other language about refunds due to this type of situation, I think you are out of luck.

RedWeek / OP "DIY" rental agreement seems very basic (and grossly inadequate in some respects, IMnsHO). Is there some place / means by which to view the entirety of RedWeek's (plainly more comprehensive) "full service" rental agreement from which you have apparently quoted the above section?

 

[rrazzorr]

It is of course entirely your personal choice and decision to make, but (IMnsHO) you have little or no chance of prevailing in any legal action that you might choose to initiate. That being said however, it is worthy of note that the "DIY" rental agreement that you apparently executed is surprisingly lame and woefully inadequate in addressing in clear and specific detail refund / cancellation policy for events entirely beyond the control of either the owner or the tenant.

Your "landlord" might consider (as a compromise) retaining the amount of their (lost) maintenance fees for the week at issue, refunding to you the balance exceeding that mf figure, but a 100% refund is frankly (IMnsHO) an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation with zero chance of fulfillment.

That's a pretty poor assessment of the situation; from the legal perspective, the renter will be entitled to get some if not all money back. The precise loose (lame and inadequate) nature of the contract will favor the decision toward the renter, unfortunately that's how the legal system works. I am not suggesting legal action, and truly hope it can be worked out between the two parties, but realistically speaking any small court will favor the renter, not the landlord. Landlord's consideration of a compromise will not be highly regarded in court. Lost maintenance fees is not a responsibility of a renter to bare, especially if the unit is not available to use, considering the loose contract terms.
[solely in my honest opinion]

 

[tschwa2]

That's a pretty poor assessment of the situation; from the legal perspective, the renter will be entitled to get some if not all money back. The precise loose (lame and inadequate) nature of the contract will favor the decision toward the renter, unfortunately that's how the legal system works. I am not suggesting legal action, and truly hope it can be worked out between the two parties, but realistically speaking any small court will favor the renter, not the landlord. Landlord's consideration of a compromise will not be highly regarded in court. Lost maintenance fees is not a responsibility of a renter to bare, especially if the unit is not available to use, considering the loose contract terms.
[solely in my honest opinion]

I agree. The rental contract the owner used was not adequate to protect the owner from this loss. If the owner refuses to refund the money, I would dispute the charge with the CC company. If that doesn't work additional legal measures might.

Must mention I am not a lawyer- this isn't legal advice- just my opinion.

 

[theo]

That's a pretty poor assessment of the situation; from the legal perspective, the renter will be entitled to get some if not all money back. The precise loose (lame and inadequate) nature of the contract will favor the decision toward the renter, unfortunately that's how the legal system works. I am not suggesting legal action, and truly hope it can be worked out between the two parties, but realistically speaking any small court will favor the renter, not the landlord. Landlord's consideration of a compromise will not be highly regarded in court. Lost maintenance fees is not a responsibility of a renter to bare, especially if the unit is not available to use, considering the loose contract terms.
[solely in my honest opinion]

I guess we can agree to disagree on your evaluation of (judgement upon?) my expressed personal views and opinions on the matter.
That's fine, but no one participating in this informal forum discussion is actually wearing a black robe while so doing.....afaik.

What I do not claim to know or understand here is how (or even if) Marriott's (very clearly stated in writing) policy on cancellations due to uncontrollable circumstances would somehow factor into any objective legal examination of the OP's situation, acknowledging that the rental itself involved a separately executed (inadequate) agreement between an owner and a tenant, not overtly invoking Marriott policy. Perhaps you have a view / judgment on that?

 

[rrazzorr]

I guess we can agree to disagree on your particular assessment of (judgement upon?) my personal views and observations on the matter at hand.

What I don't claim to know or understand here is how or if Marriott's (very clearly stated) position on cancellations due to uncontrollable circumstances would somehow factor into any objective legal examination of the OP's situation, given that the rental itself involved a separately executed agreement between an owner and a tenant, apparently not directly involving Marriott itself. Perhaps you have a view / judgment on that?

Don't mean to come off strongly opinionated, I work closely with our legal system which usually sides with the renter when loose contract terms are in question. The rest of it (prior to legal action) is a matter of honor and trust between the two parties (considering the loose agreement).
Marriott has no say in this third-party agreement, but they don't refund the MF fees in the event of disasters. The resort is closed, the owner, and subsequently the renter are out of luck. They need to find a common ground that works for both of them, which I hope will happen.
[IMHO]

 

[theo]

Don't mean to come off strongly opinionated, I work closely with our legal system which usually sides with the renter when loose contract terms are in question. The rest of it (prior to legal action) is a matter of honor and trust between the two parties (considering the loose agreement).
Marriott has no say in this third-party agreement, but they don't refund the MF fees in the event of disasters. The resort is closed, the owner, and subsequently the renter are out of luck. They need to find a common ground that works for both of them, which I hope will happen.
[IMHO]

Strong opinions are certainly fine and welcome. We are all just having a discussion and expressing our thoughts, views, speculations and questions.
Even with widely differing views, I'm sure that we would all like to see a resolution that works acceptably (if not perfectly) for everyone involved.

I remain puzzled by the RedWeek "do it yourself" rental agreement not simply mirroring the exact same cancellation / refund language and policy very clearly expressed within the "full service" version. What could possibly be the harm in adopting "black and white" language instead of willfully choosing "grey"?

 

[Talent312]

IMHO... The absence of a force majeure clause or any reference to events "beyond our control" means that the failure to provide the unit is a material breach for which the renter is entitled to relief.

Note: This is not to be construed as legal advice, merely the musing of an armchair quarterback.