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Change to [Saved HGVC Points] club rules

Cyberc

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I just received this mail today from HGVC.

To me the change has no value as I never convert my current club points to Hilton Honors points, but some are however doing it to make a reservation in current years.

Dear xxxxx

In order to maintain the strength of your Club program, a change has to be made to ensure Hilton Grand Vacations continues to offer benefits that are both valuable and sustainable.

Please be informed that as of July 5, 2017, at 7 a.m. (EST), Saved Points are no longer eligible for conversion to Hilton Honors Points for immediate use. You may continue to convert current-year ClubPoints and borrowed Points at the current ratio into Hilton Honors Points only when you secure a hotel reservation at the time of conversion by contacting a Club Counselor.

This change is in no way related to our relationship with Hilton and will not impact any other benefit of your Club Membership.

You may continue to utilize your Saved Points for other Member privileges, such as reservations at Hilton Grand Vacations Club Resorts, RCI Exchange, cruises, and more. In addition, you may still convert your next-year’s ClubPoints into Hilton Honors Points at the current conversion ratio. We appreciate your understanding and continued loyalty so we may continue to offer industry-leading benefits to our valued Members for years to come.

If you have any questions, please contact a Club Counselor at 800‑932‑4482 or 407‑613‑3141.

Sincerely,

Stan Soroka
Executive Vice President and Chief Customer Officer
Hilton Grand Vacations
 
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Talent312

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It's unusual to have such a rule change in mid-year.

Reading between the lines: There's been some sort of falling-out between HGVC and Hilton Hotels over use of last-year's points for current-year conversions. Perhaps Hilton Hotels has told 'em they want compensation for the "late" conversion in ways other than access to HGVC units, or perhaps, its resulting in Hilton Hotels getting too much access to HGVC space.
 

Jason245

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Actually it is more interesting than that.

"Points at the current ratio into Hilton Honors Points only when you secure a hotel reservation at the time of conversion by contacting a Club Counselor."

Simplification:
last years points = No conversion possible
This years points = Only convertable directly into a hotel reservation (I am guessing if you cancel those points go bye bye instead of going back into your bank of HH points but someone will have to check).
Next years points = can be converted.

Reasons:

1. New accounting revenue recognition policy that makes reward points become reductions in revenue instead of increase in Costs. Given that the new "administrative" requirements, I imagine that this is more of a pain point for current year and prior years stuff as compared to future year (where they can claim being bought). Also, it creates extra liabilities at end of year on Hilton books for those points (think December point saver people trying to figure out what to do with the vacation they paid for but can't use).

2. They may be trying to reduce the inventory of HGVC within the Hilton rental network for a possible future acquisition, or because Hilton rental rates are sometimes less than or equal to open season rates.

In all honesty, I bought because of the Hilton brand and quality, but WOULD NEVER trade my points into Hilton points... the MF/point ratio doesn't make sence when considering redemption rates... and that is before taking into account the fee charged for even doing that type of conversion.
 

Panina

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In order to maintain the strength of your Club program, a change has to be made to ensure Hilton Grand Vacations continues to offer benefits that are both valuable and sustainable.

I never used this feature so it doesn't affect me but for someone who likes this feature and purchased because of it, the diminishment of this feature might impact them. Basically no notice to the members who use this feature.

I've always said and understood that when you own a brand name timeshare the rules can change at anytime.

What upsets me is they are trying to say this change is a benefit to us to maintain the strength of our club membership. They just should have left the sentence off. How does taking something away and not giving us something else make this good for us .

They can change the rules because they can but they shouldn't have insulted my intelligence in the process.
 
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[Threads merged.]

In order to maintain the strength of your Club program, a change has to be made to ensure Hilton Grand Vacations continues to offer benefits that are both valuable and sustainable.

Please be informed that as of July 5, 2017, at 7 a.m. (EST), Saved Points are no longer eligible for conversion to Hilton Honors Points for immediate use. You may continue to convert current-year ClubPoints and borrowed Points at the current ratio into Hilton Honors Points only when you secure a hotel reservation at the time of conversion by contacting a Club Counselor.

This change is in no way related to our relationship with Hilton and will not impact any other benefit of your Club Membership.

You may continue to utilize your Saved Points for other Member privileges, such as reservations at Hilton Grand Vacations Club Resorts, RCI Exchange, cruises, and more. In addition, you may still convert your next-year’s ClubPoints into Hilton Honors Points at the current conversion ratio. We appreciate your understanding and continued loyalty so we may continue to offer industry-leading benefits to our valued Members for years to come.
 
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PigsDad

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This is a duplicate of Cyberc's post...
 

brp

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Actually it is more interesting than that.

"Points at the current ratio into Hilton Honors Points only when you secure a hotel reservation at the time of conversion by contacting a Club Counselor."

Simplification:
last years points = No conversion possible
This years points = Only convertable directly into a hotel reservation (I am guessing if you cancel those points go bye bye instead of going back into your bank of HH points but someone will have to check).
Next years points = can be converted.



In all honesty, I bought because of the Hilton brand and quality, but WOULD NEVER trade my points into Hilton points... the MF/point ratio doesn't make sence when considering redemption rates... and that is before taking into account the fee charged for even doing that type of conversion.

I would also never exchange, so this would not impact us either. I've also made it something of a mission NOT to Save points since they have a fee for that, but Borrowing is free. Of course, it's not always possible, but is a target.

HGVC are very nickel-and-dime with fees. DVC, by contrast has no fees for banking (their name for saving), making reservations, changing/cancelling reservations, having non-owner on the reservation (no guest certificates). Different programs, to be sure, but I let the fee structure influence (to an extent) how I try to use the points.

The impact on Current Year points is a bigger one, IMO, even though we'd not do the exchange.

Cheers.
 

RJC356

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I had a similar reaction to this notification - disingenuous at best and somewhat insulting. HGVC to HH point conversion is a major sales tool HGVC has used in selling timeshares. Whether they actually have the right to make this change remains to be seen. Now that HGCV has been spun off, this may be the first of ongoing changes that undermine the value of having a timeshare associated with Hilton. I am beginning to distrust HGVC more and more.
 

jestme

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Actually, I don't use the "feature", but I like I the change. It gives Hilton fewer excuses for having HGVC inventory to rent on Hilton.com. However, making a change with very little notice isn't realistic either.
 

NOLA47

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What surprised me is that it is effective immediately.
 

RX8

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States effective 7:00 am today. I got the email at 7:29 am...
 

Panina

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There will be many pissed owners who were planning to convert.
 

Sandy VDH

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I really never convert. Only that 1 time to top up the requirements I needed for my big Maldives trip. I not surprised by this because rescued points were always restricted to use within the club. So saved points are what rescued point used to be like (sortof kindof). So unless I am remembering incorrectly, this basically just reverts back to the old way.
 

alwysonvac

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SOLD (DVC, FSRC)

Talent312

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There will be many pissed owners who were planning to convert.

Like who?
Converting to HH points is such a notoriously poor use of points that, IMHO, this actually keeps members from wasting their points. If you don't want to use your saved points for a HGVC stay, deposit them to RCI instead.

.
 

alwysonvac

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Ok, it looks like HGVC realized they made a mistake in the 2017 Club Rules. This explains why this change was effective immediately.

Prior to 2016, Rescued/Saved points couldn't be used for hotel reservations (see table) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?attachments/hgvc-point-chart-jpg.1348/

The new 2017 Club rule, HGVC removed the "Deposit" point option and mistakenly allowed "Saved" points to be used for hotel reservations.

Here's a link to the full 2013 thread - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/depositing-vs-rescuing.197706/
 
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Panina

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Ok, it looks like HGVC realized they made a mistake in the 2017 Club Rules. This explains why this change was effective immediately.

Prior to 2016, Rescued/Saved points couldn't be used for hotel reservations (see table) - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?attachments/hgvc-point-chart-jpg.1348/

The new 2017 Club rule, HGVC removed the "Deposit" point option and mistakenly allowed "Saved" points to be used for hotel reservations.

Here's a link to the full 2013 thread - http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/depositing-vs-rescuing.197706/
Then all they had to say was....due to a mistake in our 2017 club rules, effective immediately....simple and truthful
 

Panina

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Like who?
Converting to HH points is such a notoriously poor use of points that, IMHO, this actually keeps members from wasting their points. If you don't want to use your saved points for a HGVC stay, deposit them to RCI instead.

.
There are alway people who are not good consumers and will use a benefit even if it has bad value. Shouldn't affect too many owners, as alwysonvac said seems the 2017 rules made a mistake allowing saved points to be used.
 

brp

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Like who?
Converting to HH points is such a notoriously poor use of points that, IMHO, this actually keeps members from wasting their points. If you don't want to use your saved points for a HGVC stay, deposit them to RCI instead.

.

See, that's now HGVC should have spun this:

"We know that there are many of you who view the conversion of your HGVC points to HHonors. In studying this, we have come to the conclusion that you're wrong. In order to save you from doing something monumentally stupid, we are removing the ability to convert Saved points to Hhonors- something that should never have been allowed in the first place. You're welcome."

Cheers.
 

PigsDad

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See, that's now HGVC should have spun this:

"We know that there are many of you who view the conversion of your HGVC points to HHonors. In studying this, we have come to the conclusion that you're wrong. In order to save you from doing something monumentally stupid, we are removing the ability to convert Saved points to Hhonors- something that should never have been allowed in the first place. You're welcome.

Straight forward and truthful. That said, you would never get a job as a corporate communications executive. :p

Kurt
 

Nomad420

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Like who?
Converting to HH points is such a notoriously poor use of points that, IMHO, this actually keeps members from wasting their points. If you don't want to use your saved points for a HGVC stay, deposit them to RCI instead.

.
I am more than slightly PO'ed. I can convert at 50 to 1 so it isn't a horrible waste of points. In fact I did it last year and used them for my summer vacation already this past month. Having recently bought into HGVC/HCNY I have already called and written a letter stating this is a bit of a bait and switch situation.

Addtitionally "Points at the current ratio into Hilton Honors Points only when you secure a hotel reservation at the time of conversion by contacting a Club Counselor." I was told plus a $99 fee which basically makes conversion more of a joke.

RJC356 said it best and took the words out of my mouth. "I had a similar reaction to this notification - disingenuous at best and somewhat insulting. HGVC to HH point conversion is a major sales tool HGVC has used in selling timeshares. Whether they actually have the right to make this change remains to be seen. Now that HGCV has been spun off, this may be the first of ongoing changes that undermine the value of having a timeshare associated with Hilton. I am beginning to distrust HGVC more and more."

This conversion at 50 to 1 was literally pounded out to me throughout their presentation almost more than the virtues of there own HGVC properties. The repeatedly stated the benefits of conversion at what Hilton (and all of there affiliated properties) had to offer. If there continues to be a deterioration of benefits with Hilton the term Class Action comes to mind.
 

Jason245

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I am more than slightly PO'ed. I can convert at 50 to 1 so it isn't a horrible waste of points. In fact I did it last year and used them for my summer vacation already this past month. Having recently bought into HGVC/HCNY I have already called and written a letter stating this is a bit of a bait and switch situation.

Addtitionally "Points at the current ratio into Hilton Honors Points only when you secure a hotel reservation at the time of conversion by contacting a Club Counselor." I was told plus a $99 fee which basically makes conversion more of a joke.

RJC356 said it best and took the words out of my mouth. "I had a similar reaction to this notification - disingenuous at best and somewhat insulting. HGVC to HH point conversion is a major sales tool HGVC has used in selling timeshares. Whether they actually have the right to make this change remains to be seen. Now that HGCV has been spun off, this may be the first of ongoing changes that undermine the value of having a timeshare associated with Hilton. I am beginning to distrust HGVC more and more."

This conversion at 50 to 1 was literally pounded out to me throughout their presentation almost more than the virtues of there own HGVC properties. The repeatedly stated the benefits of conversion at what Hilton (and all of there affiliated properties) had to offer. If there continues to be a deterioration of benefits with Hilton the term Class Action comes to mind.


1. you are only guaranteed what is in the contract, and HHonors isn't in the contract.

2. Consider this,
1 week at HGVC in orland with 1 BR HH points = ~60kpoints/night *7 nights = 420,000 points.
1 week in 1 BR with HGVC points = 4800 points.
points for converting that to HH @ 25 points conversion = 120,000 points.

You are basically paying $100 for the privilage of losing 3/4 of the value almost.

Even at 50 points conversion you pay to lose half.

This is a great deal for HGVC and Hilton, terrible deal for everyone else. you are better off trying to rent the week for $700 and paying $50 for guest cert (you end up only losing 1/3 of your value instead of 3/4).
 

Nomad420

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1. you are only guaranteed what is in the contract, and HHonors isn't in the contract.

2. Consider this,
1 week at HGVC in orland with 1 BR HH points = ~60kpoints/night *7 nights = 420,000 points.
1 week in 1 BR with HGVC points = 4800 points.
points for converting that to HH @ 25 points conversion = 120,000 points.

You are basically paying $100 for the privilage of losing 3/4 of the value almost.

Even at 50 points conversion you pay to lose half.

This is a great deal for HGVC and Hilton, terrible deal for everyone else. you are better off trying to rent the week for $700 and paying $50 for guest cert (you end up only losing 1/3 of your value instead of 3/4).

First off let me state it was never my intention of buying into HGVC to convert points to HC even at 50 to 1. Having said that there do seem to be times when that may be at least be of some benefit. With all the "bogus" points I received when I bought into HCNY I literally had no use for my annual points received year one at HCNY (bonus points can not be used at home resort) so I converted them and as previously stated used them for a week stay in the Boston and Boston area. Not a bad deal but I agree far from great either. I will be burning through the bonus points over the next 18 months and will probably bank next years points into 2019 rather than convert.
These changes CAN be a very slippery slope and hopefully will not lead to further deterioration of benefits in the future. I say with some experience as I am currently involved in a class action suite with a fractional ownership property I have in Hawaii (I am not the lead plantiff) over just this issue, deterioration of initial benefits and a massively changed fee schedule.
 

CalGalTraveler

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I am confused by what "saved" points are. In December, we bank our points for a new year into the following year e.g. last December we banked 2017 to 2018. Is this considered saving points?
 
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