Court tells FAA to review seat widths

[Talent312]

From:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/29/new...:+rss/cnn_topstories+(RSS:+CNN+-+Top+Stories)

"This is the case of the incredible shrinking airline seat."

That's how a federal judge in Washington D.C., Patricia Millet, described the issue in a decision she and two other judges handed down Friday, ordering the FAA to review seat sizes and legroom on commercial airlines.

Previously, the FAA has refused to mandate how much space airlines must ensure customers have on planes. But the judge's decision will force the agency to revisit the issue. The move comes after an advocacy group, Flyers Rights, petitioned the FAA in 2015 to implement new rules to regulate seat space.

The FAA rebuked the effort, so Flyers Rights took its demands to court and won the right to move forward. The group celebrated the judges' decision Friday, saying the court "granted Flyers Rights and airline passengers a victory."

Flyers Rights had said it's concerned that small airline seats are actually a safety hazard, putting passengers at risk for conditions like deep vein thrombosis. That's a potentially fatal condition that can cause blood clots in people's legs.

The group has also argued that airlines may be out of step with the realities of Americans' needs, particularly in light of climbing obesity rates. Millet agreed. "As many have no doubt noticed, aircraft seats and the spacing between them have been getting smaller and smaller, while American passengers have been growing in size," the judge wrote.

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[x3 skier]

No idea exactly what the court wants the FAA to do. "Review"?

OK, they review and then what?

Cheers

 

[Talent312]

Nothing.
But this time, instead of dismissing it out-of-hand, they assign an intern to produce a 80-page report with lots of facts and findings (most supplied by the airlines), before refusing to take any action.

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[Passepartout]

I've said it before, so I'll reiterate. We've brought this on ourselves by shopping for airfare by price. The airlines are only too happy to cram a couple of extra rows of seats in and cut the price by a couple of bucks under the competition for more market share. Now, have you noticed that the seats on each side of the aisle(s) are not necessarily directly across from each other? By staggering them just a little, those passengers with a larger (ahem) 'profile' won't get wedged between them.

I wonder how much space a 'passenger' gets in Elon Musk's Hyperloop vehicle? http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1088108_elon-musks-hyperloop-concept-becomes-a-company

Jim

 

[x3 skier]

So the FAA does a review, issues a report that says Seats are small, they are safe according to rules and another couple of millions of dollars down the drain.

Wonderful.

Cheers

 

[geist1223]

The Report on line (I believe CNN) actually listed the seat width, leg clearance, etc by Major Airlines.

 

[isisdave]

I'm a little more concerned by the pitch (distance between rows). To be able to stand upright, a person's center of mass must be over his/her feet. Nowadays, even with the seat back in front fully upright, I cannot stand up straight, facing forward, without at least lightly holding on to the seat in front, because the seat in front forces me to lean back just a little. How is this not a safety concern, even disregarding the possibility of an emergency landing leaving you at some odd angle of the other kind of pitch?

 

[Talent312]

DW always selects window seats becuz the curvature of the fuselage gives her a little overhang.

Without notice, Delta changed our seat selection on an upcoming flight. We found out about it by accident. Now, instead of a window seat, we're in 2 aisle seats across from each other -- not a bad configuration - but I would'a liked to have been told. Instead of going "Ann Coulter" on them (twitter-storm), we just reselected new seats.

 

[Tia]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apos-incredible-shrinking-airline-seat-184431320.html#comments

''U.S. regulations require that Boeing, Airbus SE and other manufacturers prove that a fully loaded plane can be evacuated within 90 seconds with half the exits blocked and in low lighting conditions''

 

[vacationhopeful]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apos-incredible-shrinking-airline-seat-184431320.html#comments

''U.S. regulations require that Boeing, Airbus SE and other manufacturers prove that a fully loaded plane can be evacuated within 90 seconds with half the exits blocked and in low lighting conditions''

Those "time tests" times will NOT happen in the REAL WORLD.

IMHO.... and my guess-a-mates....my predictions are formed by who I deal with in my life:

Let's factor in 25% of the passengers would be over 70yo and/or part of the extremely obese population with bad eyesight and even WORST hearing & understanding; 10% where English is not their first language; 10% flying with earbuds on; 15% in a total panic screaming and climbing over the empty seats (because they can).

With anyone who is over 80yo, add in 50% of them who will do the exact opposite as directed by the flight crew ... and argue about it.

95% of the passengers will NOT LEAVE everything in the cabin.

Makes driving anywheres looking better all the time.

 

[Talent312]

...Makes driving anywheres looking better all the time.

Not driving to Jamaica... until amphibious vehicles are affordable.

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[VacationForever]

For me, it is all about size of the toilet. I did not read the story in the link but I sure hope size of toilet is included in the study.

 

[WinniWoman]

DW always selects window seats becuz the curvature of the fuselage gives her a little overhang.

Without notice, Delta changed our seat selection on an upcoming flight. We found out about it by accident. Now, instead of a window seat, we're in 2 aisle seats across from each other -- not a bad configuration - but I would'a liked to have been told. Instead of going "Ann Coulter" on them (twitter-storm), we just reselected new seats.

Aisle seats across from each other are the best IMO..

 

[Passepartout]

For me, it is all about size of the toilet. I did not read the story in the link but I sure hope size of toilet is included in the study.

Not really. The study was about DVT. People who are forced to sit pretty much motionless are prone to Deep Vein Thrombosis. Blood clots, that can form in the legs, and if they break loose and settle in the lungs, or brain, can cause death. I've had one (or more) and don't want any more. When I fly, it's wearing compression socks, and religiously getting out of my seat at least every 3 hours or more often to walk around the aircraft. Aisle seats are my preference.

Jim

 

[VacationForever]

Not really. The study was about DVT. People who are forced to sit pretty much motionless are prone to Deep Vein Thrombosis. Blood clots, that can form in the legs, and if they break loose and settle in the lungs, or brain, can cause death. I've had one (or more) and don't want any more. When I fly, it's wearing compression socks, and religiously getting out of my seat at least every 3 hours or more often to walk around the aircraft. Aisle seats are my preference.

Jim

I solve my potential DVT issue by drinking lots of fluids (non-alcoholic drinks) when flying so that it forces me to get out of my seat and walk to the bathroom every 30 minutes. I got to admit I only fly business class because I am germaphobic so size of seats and leg room has not been my concern in business class. But I absolutely get it that economy seats are getting ridiculously crammed - narrower and less leg room, and airlines need to reverse that trend. So I hope something will be made into law after the study to mandate minimum width of seats and leg room so that airlines are forced to retrofit to make it more comfortable and safer for economy passengers. These days it feels like every airline is competing on how to make seats narrower and cram as many rows as they can into the economy class.

 

[WalnutBaron]

I've said it before, so I'll reiterate. We've brought this on ourselves by shopping for airfare by price. The airlines are only too happy to cram a couple of extra rows of seats in and cut the price by a couple of bucks under the competition for more market share. Now, have you noticed that the seats on each side of the aisle(s) are not necessarily directly across from each other? By staggering them just a little, those passengers with a larger (ahem) 'profile' won't get wedged between them.
Jim

Jim is absolutely correct. Some of us are old enough to remember when the airline industry was deregulated in 1978. In the immediate aftermath, prices were substantially reduced and new airline companies began to spring up to compete with the likes of United, Pan Am, Eastern, American, and Delta.

Over time we began to expect these lower prices and then realized we could even earn miles toward free airline tickets. Wow! We loved deregulation!

If the FAA is now going to review issues of seat width and, potentially, seat pitch as well, they may recommend new guidelines that will constitute a form of regulation that we haven't seen in the airline industry in some time. And if seat width and pitch are mandated, we can certainly expect ticket prices to rise, perhaps significantly.

Like those advocating for these changes, I hate being shoehorned into a tiny seat jammed between two grossly overweight people. Unlike those advocating for the changes, I now fly only Economy Plus (extra legroom) or Business Class, and am happy to pay the upcharge for the privilege.

 

[EZ-ED]

Passenger comfort is not the proper domain for the FAA. Passenger safety is. Nothing will come from this lawsuit except more lawsuits.

EZ-ED
FAA retired

 

[VacationForever]

Passenger comfort is not the proper domain for the FAA. Passenger safety is. Nothing will come from this lawsuit except more lawsuits.

EZ-ED
FAA retired

Small lavatories is definitely a safety issue, often expressed by many airline attendants as well.

 

[vacationhopeful]

Please .. a lot of our world has changed since the airline deregulation happened.

Kids generally rode their bikes or walked to school.
No one was bused to met some quota for who attended which school.
Fast food was diner service, not drive thru with DEEP FAT COOKED everything.
Milk was drank at the dinner table ... soda was a party treat and limited to a small 6 oz cup.

I am way bigger in dress size than my mother (same height) ... even after she had 6 kids.
Food sold did not need a chemical discloser for growth hormones or preservatives or colors added.

BACK TO AIRLINES:
Seats did NOT change in size ... our butts did.

 

[Talent312]

Kids generally rode their bikes or walked to school...

I walked 10 miles to school in the snow and it was uphill, both ways.
... and that was in Miami.

Butts got bigger, but so did planes.
Seems to me that one wide-body should accommodate another.
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[vacationhopeful]

I walked 10 miles to school in the snow and it was uphill, both ways.
... and that was in Miami.

......
.

And I heard all that from my father, too ... and he was the guy who decided IF the school system was opened or closed due to weather. If he had to go to work ... so did the school admin, support staff, teachers and us KIDS had to go to school.

And his younger sisters also told me, he REGULARLY (twice weekly at the least) CUT school to hop the train for the 100 mile ride up to NYC. And his mother locked him in her bedroom to 'learn him enough French' to graduate high school at age 16.

 

[x3 skier]

I walked 10 miles to school in the snow and it was uphill, both ways.
... and that was in Miami.

Butts got bigger, but so did planes.
Seems to me that one wide-body should accommodate another.
.

Uphill both ways, in the snow, barefoot and carrying my three brothers and my sister

Cheers