Defending timeshare over hotel rooms to people not familiar with the concept

[vacationhopeful]

I have taken my nephews & niece on vacations with me ... almost always these were their FIRST "no parent there" adventures. Usually, there was a reason/reward for such a trip ... sickly year, reward for a BIG behavior change, or just a bonding trip with a far away teenager.

But I did start off with a "all siblings & available spouse trip" ... after multiple years of caring/travelling/seeing the others, only for our parents' years of sickness and passing. Truly changed our inter-family dynamics .. that first 5 night "my birthday party" trip. And other siblings executed trips inviting the rest of us to tag along ... like an Alaskan cruise.

PS Parents usually believed their child would NOT want to go without them. And I always asked my sibling FIRST for permission to take their young teenager and why; and discussed costs I am covering. And almost every time, the parents offered to pay some part of the trip.

 

[RLS50]

Yes I have become very accustomed to spacious well appointed accommodations. Sometimes I think oh we'll just stay in a hotel or rent a suite when a timeshare isn't available. And I get downright offended at the cost for even modest accommodations.

Our kids were 4 & 6 the first time they stayed in a hotel (having only stayed in timeshares since they were infants). They were fascinated to learn that hotels don't have kitchens but do have bathrooms. They thought it was funny to play in that little space between the 2 beds queen beds, directly in front of the TV. Every time I stepped over them I thought how do people do this for week.

Unfortunately you just reminded me of our vacations for the first 14 years of my kid's lives. Once they hit 10ish, the space between the beds is no longer fun and once they hit 12-13 they really wanted to bring a cousin or friend with them. Going to the Caribbean when they were younger was nice (albeit in a hotel room type accommodation), but now that we own and stay in timeshares they have just as much (if not more) fun being stateside somewhere in a timeshare where they can bring friends (or family can join us) and there is room for everybody. Whether it is a beach somewhere along the East Coast or sitting around a campfire at night in the woods in the PA, NC, TN, or VA mountains, it doesn't matter.

 

[DianneL]

Short version is: bought correctly and used correctly, the product can't be beat.

Exactly. Very well said.

 

[LannyPC]

I do sometimes post tips and tricks on FB, so that people know it's possible to get great vacations for good prices, if you know how to work the system.

That's the key. If you know how to work the system. Most TS owners who bought impulsively at those much-maligned sales presentations did not take time to do research and learn how to work the system. Hence, they get understandably angry and start spewing off as loudly as they can how TSs are such a bad idea.

 

[linpat]

I mention timeshares only in a general sense, with some curiosity on the part of friends and colleagues, but no negatives. One funny response was from a colleague who just didn't understand why we like to stay in a 2 or 3 bedroom place, with a full kitchen, washer and dryer, and other amenities and no maid service because the height of vacation luxury to her is having linens changed each morning. It's a plus to us that we ca sleep late and take our time in the morning and don't have to plan to be up and out for maid service or remember to put out the "Do Not Disturb" hanger.

 

[Ty1on]

I mention timeshares only in a general sense, with some curiosity on the part of friends and colleagues, but no negatives. One funny response was from a colleague who just didn't understand why we like to stay in a 2 or 3 bedroom place, with a full kitchen, washer and dryer, and other amenities and no maid service because the height of vacation luxury to her is having linens changed each morning. It's a plus to us that we ca sleep late and take our time in the morning and don't have to plan to be up and out for maid service or remember to put out the "Do Not Disturb" hanger.

AND don't have hotel employees pawing through your stuff once a day.

 

[Icc5]

I was just on Flyertalk and defended my ownership of timeshare to someone who only knows the negatives about timeshare. I don't know why I feel the need to defend timeshare, but I sure did.

I expressed my displeasure that my MF's for one resort are being posted as janitorial and not as timeshare fees for 3X on Sapphire Reserve. It's $5K a year for our three weeks on Maui (oceanfront). I am pretty disappointed not to get 3X.

I find it odd that timeshare has such a bad reputation, but then I think of the new guest fees by Starwood, and I know why people are suspicious of it.

Just odd that people really do think we are all being swindled by high purchase prices and ever-increasing fees.

How do you defend your timeshares to friends? Do you even bother to defend your decision?

I have experiences from several fronts. My second oldest brother had the bad experience with the hard sell presentations years ago and bad mouths all timeshares and him and my sister will never step foot in any.
My wife's side learned by staying at ours and loves them. We have a hard time stopping them from buying more and more (for personal use, not rentals). They make lots of money in intense jobs and love vacation time. We've had some of the best times doing family reunions,weddings, and special occasions at our and their timeshares.
When I worked (200 employees) were jealous of our great vacations and after about 5 years they all wanted to know how to buy in, what is best, costs, etc. We would explain the best we could and then turn them to Tug. Since then several have bought and never complained though we have discussed changes, price increases, buying resale, etc. but they all enjoy comfortable vacations.

 

[Centurion]

Invite your critical friends and family with you! First hand experience is enough to convert almost anyone at the right resort at the right season.

 

[schenriq]

I'm not planning to be this generous to everyone who asks out of curiosity but for my siblings at least, I believe I was able to win over their skepticism by letting them experience timesharing first hand. It's especially convincing when they know that I snagged great exchange and I let them occupy at least a bedroom for a song For eg., a great 2-BR Starwood condo in Scottsdale (for my 1BR--prior to the size upgrade fee) or that huuge 1BR FS Aviara (for a late II deposit of a free week that serendipitously transferred to me with a MB week "purchase".

In both cases, my siblings had a taste of the sweet poison and I give in rotation so everyone gets a chance. One of them eventually acquired a Hilton Vegas week after I steered him in that direction (as per his requirements) with lots of help from the TUG HGVC forum. I did a lot of explaining too but, for my folks, I'll never be tired. Hopefully, they take those words to heart and none of them ever buy at full freight.

 

[DeniseM]

There are 3 things I will not debate: religion, politics, and timeshares.

 

[Beefnot]

There are 3 things I will not debate: religion, politics, and timeshares.

Except here on TUG...

 

[DeniseM]

Except here on TUG...

True - Except the original post stated:

"Defending timeshare over hotel rooms to people not familiar with the concept"

 

[Beefnot]

True - Except the original post stated:

"Defending timeshare over hotel rooms to people not familiar with the concept"

Sooo...

There are 3 things I will not debate with people not familiar with the [timeshare] concept: religion, politics, and timeshares.

OR

There are 3 things I will not debate: religion, politics, and timeshares (with people not familiar with the [timeshare] concept).

Um, ok....

 

[MOXJO7282]

When I first became enamored with Marriott TSs 15 years ago I initially went to a number of family members and friends with the thought we could go into the deals together. I had analysis that detailed the possible trips and exchanges and associated costs . It was color coded and very comprehensive to "convince" everyone what I discovered.

I got rejections 100% across the board. I can't tell you the grief I got from everyone when I bought the first 4 Marriotts direct for big money between 2002 and 2004. It was a running joke that Joe had gone crazy and one BIL was very animated to everyone but me that I was risking my family's financial future. I can't say that I blamed them too much as I was in my mid 30s didn't have the great job I have now and no money to speak of but it was over the top criticism by a few.

From that experience I learned that most people just don't get it and never will so I very rarely try to convince anyone of anything related to timeshare because very few will get it.

Case in point is my wealthy BIL. Goes to Aruba religiously every year and spends a fortune renting hotel rooms. About 10 years ago I showed him how if he bought the Aruba Surf Club he'd pay himself back in about 6 trips and enjoy a much better experience and he just couldn't accept it. This guy still goes to Aruba and spends a fortune. At this point he could've paid off 2 weeks.

Same thing with a friend at work. Again I don't try to convince but when I see a friend who I can help I do offer some guidance. They love the GO on HHI in late summer and always rent at a premium probably around $2700 for OS. I suggested she buy a Marriott HHI TS and i showed her how she could have an ROI in about 7 trips. This was at least 7 years ago and they still do they same thing every year.

Most people don't get it and never will.

 

[jehb2]

On a positive note, my brother and SIL had been going to Disney World for years. One year when we all ran the marathon in Hawaii we stayed at our Hilton timeshare. Next trip to Disney they brought a Disney Timeshare which is perfect for them. Next time I saw my SIL she gave me a gift to say thank you for getting them to buy a timeshare. I really didn't do anything. But she credits me because she just didn't get the concept (or maybe the reality) until they stayed with us.

Another trip my SIL&BIL (husband's side of family) decided that they would pay for all our meals in Hawaii. He had calculated restaurants 3 times a day for 7 people for 14 days. We took him to Costco. When he figured out that we cooked most of our meals he went crazy. Seriously. He LOVES to cook. He spent under $300 for the 1st week. No matter when you got up he would cook whatever you wanted for breakfest. That was cool. They didn't buy a timeshare, but they totally "get" timeshares after that experience.

 

[Smokatoke]

I dont own timeshare... its a fractional ownership property

But its not surprising you would have to defend it because when I hear timeshare I still think scam and I know better. The best way I frame the argument is usually that I bought resale for .10 cents on the dollar (main part of the negative association with TS is the initial cost), and with a family of 5 wanting to stay in a hotel somewhere ONCE a year for a few nights would easily exceed the $765 MF I pay yearly that gives me usually 4 vacations a year, or the equivalent of 28 nights. The only positive side about Hotels are no reoccuring fees and generally instant availability, but the long term cost isnt even comparable. Now throw in a Disney or Hawaii trip and you just blew hoteling out of the water.

The other main negative about TS is "I bought this property and never use it!"... But its not the timeshares fault you bought something and dont use it, and/or didnt think of the long term implications of ownership.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I really love to tell people about timeshare. I also tell them to use it and not lose it. One year of paying fees and leaving a week just sit, and my BIL and SIL were done with timeshares in general. That was their mistake and had nothing to do with their older timeshare.

My niece and nephew are getting rid of a great week, an ordinary resort, but an extraordinarily great trading week. They exchanged into many Orlando Marriott resorts and they always get the bonus weeks, and they used that week each year. The fees are low enough that an exchange to any resort is less than $900 total.

Now they are getting divorced, and the very idea of traveling with that timeshare, it makes them remember the good times in their relationship. Neither one wants to pay the fees or deal with the exchange process. And certainly neither of them wants to actually stay in the unit they own. Try as I might, I cannot convince my nephew or his former wife to keep that week. It's ridiculous. They loved how it all worked before this last year.

I feel badly because I was the one who talked them into taking this week, and now it's such a burden to both of them.

 

[qwerty]

I was just on Flyertalk and defended my ownership of timeshare to someone who only knows the negatives about timeshare. I don't know why I feel the need to defend timeshare, but I sure did.

I expressed my displeasure that my MF's for one resort are being posted as janitorial and not as timeshare fees for 3X on Sapphire Reserve. It's $5K a year for our three weeks on Maui (oceanfront). I am pretty disappointed not to get 3X.

I find it odd that timeshare has such a bad reputation, but then I think of the new guest fees by Starwood, and I know why people are suspicious of it.

Just odd that people really do think we are all being swindled by high purchase prices and ever-increasing fees.

How do you defend your timeshares to friends? Do you even bother to defend your decision?

If you are happy with your T/S, just say that. When asked, I usually say that it has worked out very well for us. There are far too many anecdotes floating out there regarding T/S for you to try and defend. When asked about getting a T/S, I say that should be thoroughly studied. As often as possible, I mention TUG.

 

[BocaBoy]

I bought Sabal Palms pre-construction in 1987. Before that purchase, I was familiar with the timeshare concept and had been to a sleazy timeshare presentation previously which frankly was very offensive. However, the concept seemed good and we bought because of the Marriott name and their plan to clean up the timeshare industry with their product. To some extent they did and we have been very happy with our Marriott timeshares over the years (except for the out of control maintenance fees of the past 10 or so years.)

Having said that, I don't think the concept really works or is affordable for most people. They just do not understand how to use it well enough and often cannot really afford the purchase or ongoing commitment. And the problem is that those of us who do understand how to use it can only benefit as much as we do because there are so many of those uninformed people who own and continue to buy timeshares. Thus, I think the industry is viable only because of these uninformed owners and that cannot be a good thing in the macro sense.

 

[rjpdkp]

We bought at Lake Tahoe, in 1985, and never exchanged with RCI or II because we wanted to go to Tahoe. Discovered TUG a few years ago and refer everyone who asks about timesharing to TUG. We are now in our later years and will sell our timeshare in Lake Tahoe for $1 but only to a tugger who understands what is going on. In the meantime we will exchange through DAE or TUG for locations below 3500ft. for as long as we can travel.

 

[farnow]

If you buy with a "reputable" major label, like Marriott, Hilton and Disney, you'll pay more but deal with a quality and reliable company. Yes, you can buy resales, but you often get a limited slice of what is becoming expanded use options. For example, if you buy a Marriott resale, you can use only your "home" resort or trade with Interval. You forfeit annual or semi-annual options of trading for Marriott Rewards points and staying in over five thousand Marriott/SPG branded hotels worldwide. You also do not get the option to exchange your resale week into the Marriott Destination Points with its many options included tours, cruises, events, etc. If you get a "good deal" on the resale market, have at it, but investigate what you're not getting. Also, be careful that the distressed seller might owe past due maintenance fees that you need to bring current to even use your bargain purchase. My son was given a week by our 80+ year-old neighbor with a DRI week. She paid all the legal fees. The current maintenance fees on that free week are enormous, and he and his family have limited use unless they spend additional money to "upgrade," whatever that means. No question, you'll pay more at a sales presentation, but if that presentation is done at a quality and reputable company like previously mentioned, you'll be secure with your purchase, you'll be able to use the product to its maximum and you'll break even quickly when you compare the cost of similar resorts in similar locations. Many have already said that. If you're going to buy Hilton and compare your cost to staying at an Econolodge or a Travelodge, you'll probably never break even nor should you have purchased in the first place because it's not right for your vacation lifestyle. Also, if you go to a place where the first price they show you is four times the last price they show you for essentially the same "opportunity," quickly take your leave, even if it means you're not going to get the McDonalds happy meals you were promised or whatever else you were persuaded to accept.

 

[RLS50]

Having said that, I don't think the concept really works or is affordable for most people. They just do not understand how to use it well enough and often cannot really afford the purchase or ongoing commitment. And the problem is that those of us who do understand how to use it can only benefit as much as we do because there are so many of those uninformed people who own and continue to buy timeshares. Thus, I think the industry is viable only because of these uninformed owners and that cannot be a good thing in the macro sense.

Unfortunately I think what you said here is very close to the truth. It appears the lure for many developers and individuals in this business is the possibility they could become absurdly wealthy from the naivete and gullibility of a public where too many can be convinced during a high pressure sales marathon to pay insane amounts of money for in essence, the same weeks and units the developer has sold over and over and over again. If the timeshare industry existed at all without these many individuals who get fleeced, no doubts it would probably look very different.

What that different would look like, and whether the hardcore timeshare veterans like those found on TUG would enjoy it or benefit from it as much, is hard to say. Like you I suspect not, or at least not as much.

 

[RLS50]

If you buy with a "reputable" major label, like Marriott, Hilton and Disney, you'll pay more but deal with a quality and reliable company. Yes, you can buy resales, but you often get a limited slice of what is becoming expanded use options. For example, if you buy a Marriott resale, you can use only your "home" resort or trade with Interval. You forfeit annual or semi-annual options of trading for Marriott Rewards points and staying in over five thousand Marriott/SPG branded hotels worldwide. You also do not get the option to exchange your resale week into the Marriott Destination Points with its many options included tours, cruises, events, etc. If you get a "good deal" on the resale market, have at it, but investigate what you're not getting. Also, be careful that the distressed seller might owe past due maintenance fees that you need to bring current to even use your bargain purchase. My son was given a week by our 80+ year-old neighbor with a DRI week. She paid all the legal fees. The current maintenance fees on that free week are enormous, and he and his family have limited use unless they spend additional money to "upgrade," whatever that means. No question, you'll pay more at a sales presentation, but if that presentation is done at a quality and reputable company like previously mentioned, you'll be secure with your purchase, you'll be able to use the product to its maximum and you'll break even quickly when you compare the cost of similar resorts in similar locations. Many have already said that. If you're going to buy Hilton and compare your cost to staying at an Econolodge or a Travelodge, you'll probably never break even nor should you have purchased in the first place because it's not right for your vacation lifestyle. Also, if you go to a place where the first price they show you is four times the last price they show you for essentially the same "opportunity," quickly take your leave, even if it means you're not going to get the McDonalds happy meals you were promised or whatever else you were persuaded to accept.

I don't disagree with your general evaluation, or your top 3 names.

But I would say that the more we learn from the history of DRI over the last 10 years, I am almost beginning to think they belong in their own category...separate from everyone else. What they did over the last 10 years to generate the type of "success" they experienced appears to be leading to lawsuits either filed or being prepared in some states. Most recently there was a $1B class action lawsuit filed in Nevada by one of the more reputable law firms in the state. That follows the $850M settlement with the Arizona AG that supposedly has AG's in other states considering opening investigations as well. If recent reports are to believed they also appear to now have the highest default rate in the industry. It's possible that 8+ years worth of excessive annual maintenance fee increases may have reached a tipping point as a growing number of owners could be just giving up trying to keep up, and walking away.

But outside of the big developers / managers, there is also a whole other category of resorts managed by much smaller companies (SPM, VRI, etc) and independent HOA's. Some of these smaller resorts appear to be managed quite well, and owners at some of these resorts appear generally happy, even if some of these resorts might be missing the luxury factor found from the major developers.

Maybe this speaks to the fact that there is so much diversity and so many options (good, bad, neutral) when one speaks about timeshares. This is probably part of the problem this thread speaks to. Most people think of timeshares as a one size fits all model, when really there is a whole buffet table of options out there (with some of those options being very bad for your financial health).

 

[rapmarks]

Unfortunately I think what you said here is very close to the truth. It appears the lure for many developers and individuals in this business is the possibility they could become absurdly wealthy from the naivete and gullibility of a public where too many can be convinced during a high pressure sales marathon to pay insane amounts of money for in essence, the same weeks and units the developer has sold over and over and over again. If the timeshare industry existed at all without these many individuals who get fleeced, no doubts it would probably look very different.

What that different would look like, and whether the hardcore timeshare veterans like those found on TUG would enjoy it or benefit from it as much, is hard to say. Like you I suspect not, or at least not as much.

When I read this I remembered this story. The sales manager who was our neighbor told this about how he got into the timeshare sales business. His friend Dave told him all about the money he was making selling timeshares. He said Dave, stop, you are going to get arrested, that has to be illegal. You're going to end up in jail. Last I heard Dave was Vice President of one of the major timeshare groups.


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[hammerhammer]

I love to chat about my timeshare purchase, religion and politics. Heck I always tell my kids and wife if you cannot discuss these items with people move on, respect their view so they can respect yours.

In fact when I tell people, we own a timeshare and they do not say WHY or WHAT is wrong with you? I confront them and say a good friend would say "are you nuts?" Most folks say I know you well enough that you are making it work $$$$$ wise.

I bought our weeks for 20 bucks each and had them sold for 6k each. I was so happy the person backed out of buying them so we can keep them.