Had I realized

[Zac495]

... that getting FF first class miles would become almost impossible - I would never have bought that Manor club developer. GRRRRRRR I still believe it was a great purchase for the points and that points can be a great value. BUT - it seems now that the airlines are making it close to impossible to get the first class FF seats. I realize this isn't Marriott's fault.

So either calm me down and tell me that I'll get my first class seats to Hawaii along with 2 weeks of hotel AND 2 extra coach seats (maybe 3 ) for the kids this summer (I am flexible - any day of travel) or tell me to stop fretting and accept my stupid mistake.

Instead of being excited about planning next summer's trip (and I haven't even left on this summer's yet), I'm fretting and searching and researching - and banging my head.

Thanks for letting me vent if nothing else.

 

[kjd]

FF miles strategy

I don't know if the major airlines differ as to the number of FF seats assigned to any one flight but I imagine that they do. Does anyone know how to find out this information before you deposit MRPs into an airline FF account? That might improve the chances of getting what you want.

Having said that, there are other steps that can be taken to improve your use of FF points. Here are a few that I have used and I'm sure others can offer more.

1. Always book airline tickets 331 days in advance of travel.

2. Be flixible with travel dates and locations. Not only during a week but at different times of the year. The shoulder seasons probably have better availability.

3. Some airlines force FF into two stops thereby lengthening the trip. Sometimes it's better to use mileage for the longest leg and pay for a shorter leg. I recall going to Zurich by using FF miles on UAL from Chicago to Paris and purchasing coach on Air France to Zurich when no UAL FF tickets were available non-stop to Zurich.

4. Sometimes it's easier (although somewhat expensive) to purchase a coach ticket and use FF points to upgrade to BC or FC. It depends upon avilablity. You usually won't be able to do this by buying the lowest coach fare ticket. It depends upon the trip.

5. Try to avoid what everyone else will do. Sometimes it's better to fly to somewhere that might have more flights and then drive the final leg of the trip. Granted, it's harder to do with HI but it is a vialble strategy for other locations. For example, I am flying to LV and driving to Newport Coast. Same for Europe. Fly to Madrid and take a train or drive to Malaga.

 

[sernow]

What was difficult has become even more difficult.

Reductions in capacity because the airlines are losing money hand over fist are going to make using FF miles much more difficult. There is probably no hope for this summer, unless you wanted all first class tickets and were willing to spend at premium award levels. The coach tickets at award saver level will be the biggest chore and will need advance planning, like the first day you can book them (edit: coming to learn that FF seats can be released in a trickle, so you may need to be prepared to pay cash for some seats or have the kids draw straws on who stays with Grandma.)

I think it takes a very organized and persistent soul to be able to take full advantage of the Marriott travel award packages .

 

[aka Julie]

I'll never buy developer again for the MRPs -- just not worth it for us. From where we live (Cincinnati) it's just too hard to get FF seats without paying double miles. Fewer and fewer seats will be available and # of miles required will just keep increasing, but your MRPs for turning in your week won't. Also, I think the 331 day rule is not true anymore. Sometimes some FF seats are available closer to the flight date, but then again that doesn't help with planning way in advance.

That being said, last month we were able to "snag" 2 free seats from CVG to SNA (Orange County) for next March, but had to pay 50,000 miles per ticket for coach seats.

It's definitely going to take much persistence and stamina to plan a trip using FF miles and then align it with Marriott rewards for hotel.

At our last sales presentation at SurfWatch we told the sales lady at the very beginning that we were didn't believe the MRP incentive points and availability to turn week in for points were pluses for us. She tried to convince us a few times, but we held fast. After that she really didn't know how to tailor her presentation since her "big gun" was gone.

Good luck!

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Have you gone to flyertalk.com to learn more about the program that you are trying to get frequent flier miles for? We haven't paid cash to a flight to Hawaii in over 5 years. However, I learned everything I could about the program I wanted to use. The ins and outs you can get lots of tips on how to secure a seat on flyertalk. I know with 5 seats you might have a challenge but you can do it!

 

[Travelmom64]

I realized too..

... that getting FF first class miles would become almost impossible - I would never have bought that Manor club developer. GRRRRRRR I still believe it was a great purchase for the points and that points can be a great value. BUT - it seems now that the airlines are making it close to impossible to get the first class FF seats. I realize this isn't Marriott's fault.

After reading pros and cons FOR DAYS about direct purchase over resale and point advantages, I started researching the FF situation from three gateways (our home airport and two where we would be willing to drive to, plus the three airlines we use). I put tons of different cities and dates trying to get the lowest level first class seats (50,000-80,000 miles per ticket) and in almost every case, the airline required the max. miles (100,000-160,000), unless you wanted to go to Omaha, NE or somewhere totally off the beaten path. I soon realized even with the purchase incentives, that I would never get to use my timeshare, because I would have to save points for five years to get anywhere with free air, and by that time, who knows, there may be no FF programs out there! It was discouraging.

 

[pwrshift]

It's tough to know what is going to happen with the airlines and with FF miles use this year. It may be a year where you 'buy' seats and 'earn' miles for future use when the economy gets better. Hawaii was always a tough choice to get FF seats and this year it's tougher ... and trying to get 5 seats on FF miles will be next to impossible IMO. I suggest you buy 3 seats once you find 2 seats with FF miles ... stick the kids in economy!

I do think it will ease up a little in the year - as airlines see they've got some empty seats and a commitment to their frequent fliers.

Brian

 

[Dave M]

You can be pretty sure the FF programs won't go away. They are huge moneymakers for the airlines. Why? Because they make mega-millions by selling FF miles to all of the places that you earn those FF miles - credit card companies, other airlines, florists, etc. As one example, when Air Canada exited bankruptcy, it spun its Aeroplan program off into a separate entity with a market value of about $2 billion!!!

Will the FF programs change? You can count on that. You can also count on continued devaluation of FF miles. That's one reason that FlyerTalkers recommend using FF miles as they are accumulated, rather than saving them for some far-off trip years from now. The other major reason for using them currently is that most of the airlines are in enough financial trouble that there is no assurance as to which ones will survive when the eventual shakeout comes.

 

[Bill4728]

IMHO, the key to OP's problem is that Marriott reward points are their best value when used to stay in Marriott hotels. Not when used to get FF miles.

The only exception would be buying a large reward certificate which includes FF miles.

We got great value from our MR pts when buying a european hotel hopper (7 nights in up to 3 different Marriott hotels) for 150K pts. With the hotels costing well over $600/night, that 7 night certificate saved us over $4000.

 

[KathyPet]

You cannot even see what flights are available to Hawaii until 330 days out. I beleive that all the airlines adhere to the 330 day schedule so right now you cannot even see flights to Hawaii past mid May of 2009. Pat of the problem is that most of the airlines require that you wait until 330 days from your return date to book your flight. That means that other people who are returning from hawaii earlier than you but leaving the same day you are can book before you do and all the FF outbound seats could be gone by the time you can book both your outgoing and return segments. You can get around this but it will cost you. You can book a round trip using a fake return date so that you can jump the line to book your outgoing flight. Let's say that you want to fly to Hawaii on 7/1/09 and return on 7/15/09 you could try to book on August 3rd for a outgoing flight on July 1 and a return date of July 2nd. Then on August 17th you can cancel your July 2nd return flight and try for FF seats on July 15th. However you have to pay a change fee to do this I think it runs $100 a ticket which is pretty steep.
Alos, it is not impossible but pretty difficult to get FF seats to Hawaii using the "Saver" type awards. You might have to consider some strange flight times to get a saver award. Also consider splitting the flights up if they can offer you some alternatives. Maybe you could fly to San Francisco a day early if they have seats available and stay over there and fly to Hawaii the next day. You will need to be flexible and consider alternatives.
You can also consider paying for 5 coach fares and using FF miles to upgrade to business class for a lot less points. You do have to pay for the coach seats but the # of miles to just upgrade is quite a bit less. THe only problem with that is that only certain "Fare classes" are eligible to do the upgrade. If you get a rock bottom fare it may not be eligible for a points upgrade to business class.

 

[Zac495]

I'm aware that I can't see anything until 330 days out (some say 331 days out ). Thing is - with the ANA tool (learned about that one flyer talk - I'm doing everything to learn - so love all of your advice) - it shows no availability in April - and it seems to me that April would be a lot easier than the summer.

the idea of going to SF and staying over is a good one. Still, it's a headache.

I leave for Spain - Marriott Marbella! - next Saturday. Thank goodness. I need a vacation from this vacation planning. Unfortunately I'll be in Orlando vacationing at the time that i must plan next summer's vacation (August). Oh, life is hard - so very hard. :hysterical: One must work hard to have a good time.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

It seems to me you are doing everything you should be doing... When I did my 1st frequent flyer trip for 4 people I was on pins and needles like you are but it gets easier with practice. The same thing when I rented for the 1st time, bought a resale timeshare, bought from the developer, etc... Once you learn it it will be second nature to you.

Also, I agree vacation planning is like a full time job. We'll be in Hawaii when I'll need to call in for our timeshare visit. So, instead of 3 hour difference in calling I'll have 6 hours. But other times I think, I'm so blessed to be able to vacation the way I want to.. The sacrfices are totally worth it.

 

[KathyPet]

the ANA website is a good one but only shows the Star Alliance flights. AA always has a lot of Hawaii flights and I am quite sure that Delta and Continental also fly there.

 

[ondeadlin]

The competition for frequent flier seats is only going to get tougher as the airlines see their profits shrink and cut routes and availability. It's certainly one more consideration when you're figuring the value of points.

 

[kjd]

devaluation of FF miles

Airlines are touting two types of FF miles, anytime and saver miles. The saver miles is the standard point structure that has historically been used. The anytime or premuim point structure has more seat availability. Premium point requirements are sometimes more than double the usual saver miles. Unfortunately as mentioned, some saver flights are almost impossible to get.

Marriott Rewards has done almost the same thing with some of the hotels. All of this is nothing more than a devaluation of FF and MRP while touting the system as an advantage to customers. The Marriott system does allow for some availability compared to the airlines. (Which is little or nothing)

There is no question that the prices of hotel rooms and airfares have gone up. It would follow that FF and MRP programs would increase point requirements to reflect the price increases. It is futile to advocate that there should be no devaluations.

However, it does raise the question as to exactly what an MRP is worth. The arguement for buying resale becomes more compelling with each devaluation. I noticed that one of Marriott's responses is to offer more purchase incentive points more often. I don't think that it's going to be enough to keep more of their business from going resale.

Marriott needs to face up to what's happening in the marketplace. The devaluation of the US dollar has helped MRP holders in some cases but Marriott is losing any competitive advantage of buying from them direct.

 

[BocaBum99]

I have always argued that it does not make economic sense to pay full retail for a timeshare in order to trade that timeshare for airline tickets. That would only make sense if the timeshare resort group owned the airline and timeshare owners got preferential access to excess airline seats at a dramatically discounted rate. Since that is not the case, doing so is a flawed concept.

It also can make sense if occasionally you won't use and don't have enough time to rent your timeshare for whatever reason. That would give you more salvage value than letting it go empty or dumping it on eBay.

I think the OP is learning this the hard way.

 

[Travelmom64]

Try United

the ANA website is a good one but only shows the Star Alliance flights. AA always has a lot of Hawaii flights and I am quite sure that Delta and Continental also fly there.

Ellen,
You might try United from Chicago, I notice you are in Philly which is a USAir hub and my co-workers have had luck using United with their USAir points to get to Hawaii in coach, but if you already have a lot of AA points, then that would not work.
Lisa

 

[KathyPet]

i agree with TravelMom. You might have to be inventive here. A US Airways flight to a United or AA hub and then onto Hawaii from there might be a alternative.

 

[Zac495]

i agree with TravelMom. You might have to be inventive here. A US Airways flight to a United or AA hub and then onto Hawaii from there might be a alternative.

I have no miles with AA.
Do I deposit some in AA and some in USAIR? It's almost too hard and not worth the headache.

Darn thing is - you CAN get the miles to Hawaii , but they are all premium.

I could take everyone to St. Kitts or something- but gosh - I have these thoughts - it's not far enough! It's not expensive enough to cover the "cost" of developer on the timeshare.

Don't buy developer for points unless the airlines get it together. It's great in concept. Think - 250,000 Marriott points =120,000 miles and 7 nights in a hotel . If it wasn't premium and a headache - it's a good deal - and after 2 trips, it would probably give you your money back and more.

I'm probably overthinking and over frustrating myself. that's me. I'm obsessive. I can't stop thinking of the fact that I paid 19,500 for that Manor club 2 bed platinum. what could I sell it for, btw? The difference is what I NEED to get out of it fast, or I'll kick myself for years.

 

[Bill4728]

I'm probably overthinking and over frustrating myself. that's me. I'm obsessive. I can't stop thinking of the fact that I paid 19,500 for that Manor club 2 bed platinum. what could I sell it for, btw? The difference is what I NEED to get out of it fast, or I'll kick myself for years.

$8,000 - $10,000 is the range of what I've seen for Manor club.

 

[skifast]

We have been working on our schedule, trying to figure out when to head to Maui. We just noticed that there was finally a 2BR at MOC during our kids spring break (March 29 - April 5) which will work for us. We booked the unit and then went to work on using our AA miles. Going to Maui was going to cost us 4-5 extra days off school for the kids, so we decided to look at flights to Honolulu.
Flying ORD to HNL there were plenty of seats that worked with our schedule. We booked the flight leaving Friday night, arriving HNL Saturday morning. The kids have never been to Oahu, so we will spend a day exploring (Pearl Harbor, North Shore, Waikiki), spend the night at Waikiki, and then fly to OGG in the morning for check-in. We will then leave Sunday afternooon to head back to ORD, giving us a full week with no hassles.
Yes, it will cost us some extra airfare, but the kids will be getting some additional knowledge about a place they should learn about.
The other thing you should consider is calling the airline when working on your tickets. Again, they will charge you for that, but they can help you find itineraries that you may never have thought about. Last time to Hawaii on miles, they routed us through San Jose with a week stopover. This way we had a chance to explore northern California.

 

[Steve]

$8,000 - $10,000 is the range of what I've seen for Manor club.

If you need to sell it fast, you'll probably only get $7500 for it. You can ask more, but I doubt that you will get it (at least not very quickly) in today's market. Unfortunately, the value of Manor Club platinum weeks continues to decline.

Steve

 

[Hoc]

I feel almost prophetic. Years ago, among the reasons I mentioned not to buy Marriott timeshares solely to get points were:

1. Increased capacity controls by airlines on mileage awards;
2. Devaluation of airline mileage awards; and

3. Devaluation of Marriott points by Marriott itself.

Many of the points lovers told me that it would never happen, but it has happened and will continue to happen. The bottom line is that it is never a good idea to pay an extra $20,000-$40,000 for a timeshare just because you will receive in return a points-based currency that is subject to the whims of profit-greedy companies when it comes to redeeming them.

Better to use the cash for the trips, forget the points, and buy the resorts at a third of the price resale.

 

[MikeM132]

Can't tell you about this summer's trip, but I can tell you I got back 2 weeks ago from 2 weeks in Hawaii, flying First Class on miles out of Philly to Maui, back from Honolulu. That was 3 of us. American Airlines Phil-DFW-OGG. Left on a Friday, returned on a Friday. Yes, it is indeed possible. You have to book at 331 days out!! Mark it on the calendar, get up at 2AM and call AA. That's what I did. Has worked 3 times so far (only once in First). Got 2 tix to ARuba in January leaving on a Saturday, too (coach). That is prime-time travel and they had seats. Again, you have to jump on this the day the seats post.

 

[KathyPet]

If you sell a original (MMC) platinum week using Marriott resales you will net $12,500. This informatioin is current as of two weeks ago. They are currently taking listings. We paid $14,000 for ours so in a couple of more years if they continue to increase the price we could sell and break even and we have owned it since 94. Yes we did buy from Marriott directly so in a couple of years we should get our money back and except for the MF's which we would have had to pay whether we bought resale or not we have had 14 years of vacations including some wonderful trips using our points for free.