How is Wyndham not Screwing their Owners with new Offers?

[TSGuest2017]

You can't. If you buy in with the credit from your discovery package you won't be eligible for another non owner package like discovery. Owners can't take a discovery package. As mentioned your $18,000 won't even get you a fifth of the way to VIP.

First, I didnt spend $18k. I spent $3k but thats not what Im talking about. Their Discovery program lets me BUY extra discovery points and the contract says anything I BUY between now and Dec 2020, gets applied to MY contract purchase. Understand?

 

[TSGuest2017]

Im fairly confident there is a loophole here you all arent seeing. Im not going to pretend to know everything about Wyndham. But Ive read EVERYTHING and Ive rented for YEARS and their contract says I can buy more points for 2 1/2 years and I technically coukd rent those to others and then get the credit for it much later.

It would take alot of time and effort. But in my opinion, thats 100x better than signing away on a $50,000 commitment PLUS maintenance.

And I think ONLY people that do this as a buisness would benefit from this "potential" loophole.

 

[tschwa2]

I know you didn't spend $18,000, that would be the first step on an actual purchase of points (not rental). That is the guarantee buy in you said was on your proposal. The discovery package will let you "rent" additional points. Rental points value may be applied to your pack deal but you will still have to start eventually buying something and more power to you if you want to rent another 800,000 points to be used by 2020 and then purchase using the $9000 in credits that you rented the 1.2 million points for toward the $21,000 package- now minus $9000 now $12,000 for something that will be VIP for less than 2 years. Unless your plan is to rent and using 80 million discovery points to be used by 2020 and then applying the $70,000 you spent renting those points toward the $90,000 package you would need to buy to just be a platinum VIP with an annual 1 million a year contract your plan won't work. Even if they let you spend $15,000 to get 2 million now (which I doubt they would) you would still be no where near the threshold to become a permanent platinum VIP with the $15,000 credit.

Your guaranteed credit from the discovery package rental (purchase) only lasts until the package expires. You won't have a $3000-$15,000 credit waiting indefinately and if they say you do- they only way they would honor that is if the price guarantee they gave you expireded and then they would just quote you a higher retail price against your unlimited time credit. Just as if I had a piece of paper telling me XYZ would give me a $4000 trade in credit for my junker car, they would sell me the car for the same final price with our without the trade in credit

 

[TSGuest2017]

I know you didn't spend $18,000, that would be the first step on an actual purchase of points (not rental). That is the guarantee buy in you said was on your proposal. The discovery package will let you "rent" additional points. Rental points value may be applied to your pack deal but you will still have to start eventually buying something and more power to you if you want to rent another 800,000 points to be used by 2020 and then purchase using the $9000 in credits that you rented the 1.2 million points for toward the $21,000 package- now minus $9000 now $12,000 for something that will be VIP for less than 2 years. Unless your plan is to rent and using 80 million discovery points to be used by 2020 and then applying the $70,000 you spent renting those points toward the $90,000 package you would need to buy to just be a platinum VIP with an annual 1 million a year contract your plan won't work. Even if they let you spend $15,000 to get 2 million now (which I doubt they would) you would still be no where near the threshold to become a permanent platinum VIP with the $15,000 credit.

Their low end silver and gold VIP package is $50k with all the handouts they gave me ("Todays Price"). So you are correct in your first statement. But IF they let me use buying more points towards a future purchase, its closer to only 7 million points to get to the $50k number. nowhere near 80 million.

$3,000 x 16 times = $48,000 = 7.2 million points

The paperwork says I can buy more and the contract says Discovery Owners "purchase" prices get applied to an investment in ownership at the end of the term.

If they thought the above scenario through and have chacks and balances in place for it, they are very well hidden.

And They KNEW I wasnt going to buy. I think I could them down on the VIP level buy in prices

 

[tschwa2]

Silver is worth isn't worth any thing meaningful. You would need to go gold and I was thinking more like platinum. If you have $50,000 in "credit" they aren't going to let you talk them down. The paperwork says you can buy more but does it say an unlimited amount more at that rate? Yes they might let you double or triple what you are contracted for now but that doesn't mean they will let you do it time 20 or 40. Again it isn't hidden and I didn't even go or have the paper in front of me. They are hidden to you because you don't have the experience. In inexperienced person without online reservation capacities or a rental platform already established is going to have a lot of problems renting out more than 2 million worth of points in 2.7 years. Maybe I'm wrong but like you said is that something you would like to gamble with $50,000-$80,000 to find out?

 

[TSGuest2017]

Silver is worth isn't worth any thing meaningful. You would need to go gold and I was thinking more like platinum. If you have $50,000 in "credit" they aren't going to let you talk them down. The paperwork says you can buy more but does it say an unlimited amount more at that rate? Yes they might let you double or triple what you are contracted for now but that doesn't mean they will let you do it time 20 or 40. Again it isn't hidden and I didn't even go or have the paper in front of me. They are hidden to you because you don't have the experience. In inexperienced person without online reservation capacities or a rental platform already established is going to have a lot of problems renting out more than 2 million worth of points in 2.7 years. Maybe I'm wrong but like you said is that something you would like to gamble with $50,000-$80,000 to find out?

Well no. absolutely not. I would never buy that many points all at once. I would ensure I have them rented out first OR can easily do so over the course of 2.5 years. So I may go on first vacation with 1/4 pr 1/2 my points. rent out the rest and MAYBE buy a half a million more to rent the units out and IF all goes well AND I at least break even (hopeful to make a little $) then start rinsing and repeating the purchases and rentals 8 x a year for the next 2 years. Then Im at that level or more (depending on how it goes) and sitting on the purchase credits.

I will get a feel tomorrow what Im dealing with and see what the options are.

 

[TSGuest2017]

And no, the paperwork does not say I cant buy an unlimited amount nor does it say I have a cap to how many I can buy. It DOES say if I want to apply them towards a trip within 60 days of booking I can buy the same amount I purchased originally for the same price. But thats how I would want to do it anyhow. quick turnover on my money. Buy, rent, recoup my money and keep repeating that.

IF I even do it at all. Its time consuming to say the least. But I do have experience in selling rentals and more so in renting them. Just not via Wyndham

 

[TSGuest2017]

But as for "talking them down" I already have the VIP Gold locked at "Todays Price". So worst case, its in the $50kish range. They cant go back on a locked in contract (legally anyhow).

 

[ronparise]

But as for "talking them down" I already have the VIP Gold locked at "Todays Price". So worst case, its in the $50kish range. They cant go back on a locked in contract (legally anyhow).

No you don't have a contract to buy a gold membership for $50000

It may be fools gold, as much as 308000 points with a 400000 bonus, but it isn't real gold. 700000 points for $50000

 

[raygo123]

But as for "talking them down" I already have the VIP Gold locked at "Todays Price". So worst case, its in the $50kish range. They cant go back on a locked in contract (legally anyhow).

I think you are in for a rude awakening. Today's price means nothing. When Wyndham refers to today's price, that's today's rack price which last I bought was $225.00 per thousand points. Wyndham's price lock is worthless, and everyone that buys gets a price lock for two years. Makes you feel warm and fuzzy till its too late to rescind.

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[tschwa2]

Oh if you can only buy points that are applicable to bookings in the next 60 days, you are going to be in for a rude awakening about what you can get in the 60 day window. You also don't know that there is a $119 fee for putting a reservation in a guest name over the phone. I doubt they gave you more than one or 2 "free" guest certs. You aren't going to find full weeks available at 60 days you will be lucky to find 2-3 days. So if you make 6 reservations you are already looking at another $720 in fees. No one can churn out that kind of rental income on an ongoing basis with the leftovers.

 

[uscav8r]

First, I didnt spend $18k. I spent $3k but thats not what Im talking about. Their Discovery program lets me BUY extra discovery points and the contract says anything I BUY between now and Dec 2020, gets applied to MY contract purchase. Understand?

You didn't spend $18k... yet. But you allude to buying more bunches of Discovery points that may END UP costing you up to $18k (that number did not come out of thin air as it was mentioned somewhere in this thread). In any case, all you have bought is the right to use 400k points over 2 years, at which point they expire.

Let's assume you do buy more rental points and they are ALL eligible to be applied toward a permanent purchase. That purchase will be offered at the full retail rate.

You will NOT have 400k permanent points unless you pay the rack rate for those points (roughly $80,000). Your $3000 will be applied to that $80k price tag, so you'll spend another $77k to gain PERMANENT VIP Silver status.

As a Silver VIP, I can tell you this level of benefit is hardly worth it. Gold is the minimum anyone should even consider, but at over $140k, the cost is not worth the benefit.

As I mentioned before, enjoy your Discovery package, but I highly recommend buying resale if you do like the Wyndham product.


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[Avislo]

In reviewing the The Wyndham Discovery Program Directory, I do not see where a Discovery Member or Discovery VIP Member gets to use any guest certificates. I may have missed it. Additionally, you may want to review the renting points section of the directory. Under the terms of any Wyndham Club Plus related contract, the directory terms control per the contract. I would tend to believe that clause is in the Wyndham Discovery contract.

Even if the Wyndham Discovery Program permitted renting at the levels you believe may be possible, be very careful. By report, Guest Certificates are part of the both the Suspension Issue and current changes about to be implemented.

http://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Discovery_Cover_Combined_Pgs.pdf

 

[bnoble]

OP, I'll repeat myself.

You are convinced you're the smartest guy in the room---not just the sales room, but also here in the Wyndham corner of TUG. Now, that's possible. You might be That Guy. But, there are a lot of people who've chimed in on this thread who know a lot (a whole lot) about the nuts and bolts of Wyndham. It's possible that maybe you could learn something from them.

Maybe. Or not.

 

[paxsarah]

In reviewing the The Wyndham Discovery Program Directory, I do not see where a Discovery Member or Discovery VIP Member gets to use any guest certificates. I may have missed it. Additionally, you may want to review the renting points section of the directory. Under the terms of any Wyndham Club Plus related contract, the directory terms control per the contract. I would tend to believe that clause is in the Wyndham Discovery contract.

Even if the Wyndham Discovery Program permitted renting at the levels you believe may be possible, be very careful. By report, Guest Certificates are part of the both the Suspension Issue and current changes about to be implemented.

http://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Discovery_Cover_Combined_Pgs.pdf

Helpful link! It does mention purchasing guest certificates at $129, but doesn't mention any included.

 

[am1]

OP, I'll repeat myself.

You are convinced you're the smartest guy in the room---not just the sales room, but also here in the Wyndham corner of TUG. Now, that's possible. You might be That Guy. But, there are a lot of people who've chimed in on this thread who know a lot (a whole lot) about the nuts and bolts of Wyndham. It's possible that maybe you could learn something from them.

Maybe. Or not.

Cheaper ways to get to gold/platinum anyways.

It is good that you are trying a discovery package first. Then you will get real first hand knowledge.

 

[vacationhopeful]

My experience with the Discovery program is several years old.

It is a one time 'rental' of Wyndham points and you have a special booking number to call. Usually, your vacation stays will be short .. 3 or 4 night stays. Guest certificates are NOT an issue .. as YOU are the guest & you MUST use the points. You might be required or strongly encourage to attend an Owner's Update (sales presentation each stay) for each stay. The Discovery Program has its OWN inventory .. making it appear as those PRIME stays are truly available WHEN and WHERE you want. And with limited planning ... no ARP required for 13 months in advance.

And I believe, it is a ONE time opportunity ... a hook for a buyer to THINK this is the best thing since sliced bread. IT really is a well crafted and not totally honest SAMPLE offering.

 

[TSGuest2017]

No you don't have a contract to buy a gold membership for $50000

It may be fools gold, as much as 308000 points with a 400000 bonus, but it isn't real gold. 700000 points for $50000

Ive already said I SEE the bonus on the contract and thats NOT what Im talking about and actually, I didnt even know these included bonus points at the same exact level. So 500k points plus 500k more. Even better. MY contract says "Membership Type = Discovery VIP" and the lock in "price freeze" on the contract states the price "is the same as was being offered for that vacation ownership on the Entollment Date of THIS agreement"

Their original offer said "154,000 Total Points and then 246,000 Bonus Points" totaling the 400k.

I then said, thats not happening and they came back and gave me a price of

Retail = $104k
Discount = $42,000
Net Price = $58,000

THIS one has the 400k Total Points and 400k Bonus points but of course financing and a 14% interest rate.

I then said they are out if their mind and I wouldnt finance a vacation (again, I had no intention of buying) but for the hell of it said "I would pay cash" and told them Im done and leaving.

Of course they came back and gave me the whole Discovery spill and I said I eould maybe consider it and at THAT point they lowered the offer.

I was under the assumption gold is 500k points. If not then I am wrong, but 500k point offer was in the $50k range with 500 bonus points.

It has the Gross Price per 1,000 points like you all say at $251.00. But the "Today's" aprice is almost cut in half on most of the Proposals.

If in 2 years they dont accept the Todays Price, screw em. I dont really care even. I just found this pretty odd and a slap in the face to owners.

 

[TSGuest2017]

OP, I'll repeat myself.

You are convinced you're the smartest guy in the room---not just the sales room, but also here in the Wyndham corner of TUG. Now, that's possible. You might be That Guy. But, there are a lot of people who've chimed in on this thread who know a lot (a whole lot) about the nuts and bolts of Wyndham. It's possible that maybe you could learn something from them.

Maybe. Or not.

No, I never said I was the smartest man in the room and the sales guy ACTED like he was and as if HE was smarter. THATS what I eluded to. He honestly tried using reverse psychology and saying shit like "Yeah you arent going to buy because you cant" and silly shit like that. The ONLY reason I did is because I planned on traveling anyhow and would likely have spennt more than $3k. And if tomorrow when I call I cant get what I want for $3k, i will put a stop payment on the check and cancel.

Sorry you took it that way and think I am acting all smart. Im truly bouncing ideas off you all because I personally would be upset as an owner the way they are handling these "sales"

 

[TSGuest2017]

AND, Im not a man by the way.

 

[raygo123]

I will see you in two and a half years when Wyndham offers you even a better deal,

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[TSGuest2017]

In reviewing the The Wyndham Discovery Program Directory, I do not see where a Discovery Member or Discovery VIP Member gets to use any guest certificates. I may have missed it. Additionally, you may want to review the renting points section of the directory. Under the terms of any Wyndham Club Plus related contract, the directory terms control per the contract. I would tend to believe that clause is in the Wyndham Discovery contract.

Even if the Wyndham Discovery Program permitted renting at the levels you believe may be possible, be very careful. By report, Guest Certificates are part of the both the Suspension Issue and current changes about to be implemented.

http://www.wyndhaminteractivesaleshub.com/club-wyndham/CW_Discovery_Cover_Combined_Pgs.pdf

I asked this question and was told I dont have to personally go on all vacations using my points I only have to go on the FIRST one. If that is mis-information, then I learned something.

So Wyndhams position is owners SHOULDNT rent their units? Thats against policy? Im not sure what they are/were smoking to think platinum members with millions of points ever had any intention when buying them of using them all themselves. Thats absurd.

But they seem crooked as hell. So they allow the sale of them and then suspend them? Even more reason to dump this "rental" now.

 

[uscav8r]

I asked this question and was told I dont have to personally go on all vacations using my points I only have to go on the FIRST one. If that is mis-information, then I learned something.

So Wyndhams position is owners SHOULDNT rent their units? Thats against policy? Im not sure what they are/were moking to think platinum members with millions of points ever had any intention when buying them of using them all themselves. Thats absurd.

But they seem crooked as hell. So they allow the sale of them and then suspend them? Even more reason to dump this "rental" now.

It really sounds as if you have talked yourself out of the package, so why continue on?

They don't discourage renting by the masses per se, but they are trying to curtail large scale commercial renting with some of the recently announced program changes.

Whether or not you can "rent" Discovery vacations is another issue entirely. The policies for Discovery are not exactly the same as for actual ownership, so take any limitations on Discovery usage with a grain of salt.


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[TSGuest2017]

I will see you in two and a half years when Wyndham offers you even a better deal,

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Never said it was anywhere near a good deal. I wouldnt pay a dime to them of MY money for ownership. But if I can take advantage of a loophole, Im not ashamed to say, I have no problems bending the ethical nature of that loophole for my own benefit.

 

[TSGuest2017]

It really sounds as if you have talked yourself out of the package, so why continue on?

They don't discourage renting by the masses per se, but they are trying to curtail large scale commercial renting with some of the recently announced program changes.

Whether or not you can "rent" Discovery vacations is another issue entirely. The policies for Discovery are not exactly the same as for actual ownership, so take any limitations on Discovery usage with a grain of salt.


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I very likely wont continue on. its only been like a day.