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TSGuest2017

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I dont think Discovery is/was designed for VIP and I asked and was told, by at least this sales office, that not many (if any buy Discovery at that point level. So At least for the sales guys I dealt with, this was new territory for them and they were under the assumptions VIP benefits of owners I get the same of.

Has anyone else ever done Discovery at the VIP level that you know of?

I will for sure have no issue burning through 400k points. But the benefits seem different for Discovery VIP vs Discovery Non VIP
 

ronparise

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Never said it was anywhere near a good deal. I wouldnt pay a dime to them of MY money for ownership. But if I can take advantage of a loophole, Im not ashamed to say, I have no problems bending the ethical nature of that loophole for my own benefit.

I guess I don't understand the loophole
 

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When you call tomorrow trying booking what you want for vacations with what you have plus the 1,000 points. Also, asked them about the use of guest certificates and the rules of use. Wyndham's position on renting is tricky. They are a massive mega-renter of Fairfield Trust (AKA Wyndham Club Plus) timeshare interests through Extra Holidays and other rental operations they own or control.

Part of Wyndham's sales pitches, over a time frame longer than I've been involved with the Club, have included various buy to rent pitches at various locations. Do not know if they quit doing this in the last couple of years or not. When Wyndham Worldwide and a lot of it's business units were part of Cedent, there were serious legal problems related to your "crooked comment" and timeshare shares they owned, sold, rented, etc. The relevant name if you are Googling the issue would be Fairfield Resorts, if I remember right. It was a long time ago before they bought Wyndham (primarily a Texas Based outfit) and re-named a bunch of their operations as Wyndham something.

The suspension issues should not control how you use the Wyndham Discovery program, however, could factor into weather or not to buy into Wyndham Club Plus. Let the snide comments bounce off. Some posters on this site do not use gender neutral terms if the gender of the person is unknown.
 

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I will go at this another way. I've been to the Bonnet Creek presentation a few years ago and I got the same spiel about the Discovery package. The numbers didn't add up about the Gold VIP status. When we started it was 53k for 400,000 points which was Silver at the time. After he realized we weren't buying he went the Discovery route and talked about Gold VIP. The number for Gold was considerably less and I was like WTH is going on. He then admitted it was temporary VIP for five years, after which we ended up with I think 154k of permanent points. AND I could only do ONE Discovery package. No more. Seems like some embellishment of the story since we were there.
 

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I will go at this another way. I've been to the Bonnet Creek presentation a few years ago and I got the same spiel about the Discovery package. The numbers didn't add up about the Gold VIP status. When we started it was 53k for 400,000 points which was Silver at the time. After he realized we weren't buying he went the Discovery route and talked about Gold VIP. The number for Gold was considerably less and I was like WTH is going on. He then admitted it was temporary VIP for five years, after which we ended up with I think 154k of permanent points. AND I could only do ONE Discovery package. No more. Seems like some embellishment of the story since we were there.


well, that's interesting but they never said a word nor is anything in writing "temporary".

I wouldnt need another Discovery package as I can purchase more points. Thats what the website says anyhow and what I was told. The only questions are "Whats the availability going to look like AND are they going to take issue with me NOT going on all the vacations"

Although I asked those questions, there is no way to know for sure til when I book and try putting it in someone elses name.
 

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When you call tomorrow trying booking what you want for vacations with what you have plus the 1,000 points. Also, asked them about the use of guest certificates and the rules of use. Wyndham's position on renting is tricky. They are a massive mega-renter of Fairfield Trust (AKA Wyndham Club Plus) timeshare interests through Extra Holidays and other rental operations they own or control.

Part of Wyndham's sales pitches, over a time frame longer than I've been involved with the Club, have included various buy to rent pitches at various locations. Do not know if they quit doing this in the last couple of years or not. When Wyndham Worldwide and a lot of it's business units were part of Cedent, there were serious legal problems related to your "crooked comment" and timeshare shares they owned, sold, rented, etc. The relevant name if you are Googling the issue would be Fairfield Resorts, if I remember right. It was a long time ago before they bought Wyndham (primarily a Texas Based outfit) and re-named a bunch of their operations as Wyndham something.

The suspension issues should not control how you use the Wyndham Discovery program, however, could factor into weather or not to buy into Wyndham Club Plus. Let the snide comments bounce off. Some posters on this site do not use gender neutral terms if the gender of the person is unknown.

Well, this is really interesting because I REALLY got the impression that Wyndham was and perhaps is moreso now holding back an alottmemt of rentals for this Discovery program and if you think about it, their Discovery Program IS doing exactly that. They are a rental company disquising this as a "try before you buy" scheme because they know damn well 90% of anyone that can pay them properly is smart enough to buy resale with the policies they have in place. So arent they just "pretending" and "covering" this program up for their own gain and no owners think they may be taking away your inventory or making it harder on you as owners?

I knew the minute the last guy came to talk to me about "let me offer you something special" he was full of sh*t but I just saw a small loophole in some cheap vacations and a potential for income generating opportunity and very slim chance the above 2 can be applied later towards MY purchase if I ever decide I want to pay maintenance fees.

I dont know what to think as I dont have any access to inventory. But I would for sure be willing to check tomorrow if anyone wants to send me a hard to get destination and week.

If they only have stuff available in 3-4 day increments for the discovery program then Im out for sure. I cant see why they would even have a program like that as most people need a week vacation
 

tschwa2

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and I wouldn't be surprised if you are not fully in the system until after the rescission period is over.
 

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and I wouldn't be surprised if you are not fully in the system until after the rescission period is over.

Right, and then I cancel because they cant expect me to "trust" them with a short rescend period. They should have it align with their ability to get someone in the system if they dont want people to cancel. Otherwise, their loss and I will then rent from a current owner for less money
 

tschwa2

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Right, and then I cancel because they cant expect me to "trust" them with a short rescend period. They should have it align with their ability to get someone in the system if they dont want people to cancel. Otherwise, their loss and I will then rent from a current owner for less money
Wyndham really doesn't care about your $4000. If you can't trust them on this tiny thing you won't trust them to the tune of $18,000 for 105,000 points or $80-100,000 for enough to become platinum or $150,000+ to become presidential Reserve. Like the 220 million Euros lottery winner scam, they make it obvious enough that if you aren't going to take those first little leaps they know they won't have you for the giant leaps they want you to take later so better throw you back and hook someone else. They want you to think you found a loophole to the "fabulous" life of a VIP and no matter how much you spend, they will always find a problem that can be solved with an $18,000-$20,000 purchase.
 

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well, that's interesting but they never said a word nor is anything in writing "temporary".

I wouldnt need another Discovery package as I can purchase more points. Thats what the website says anyhow and what I was told. The only questions are "Whats the availability going to look like AND are they going to take issue with me NOT going on all the vacations"

Although I asked those questions, there is no way to know for sure til when I book and try putting it in someone elses name.
Thought you had an end date of 2020. You are right. Its already there. The duration of your contract stops, ends.

As long as Wyndham's takes a live and let live, im fine, the benefits have to be equal in value to money spent. So no there is no animosity. Yet.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk
 

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Wyndham really doesn't care about your $4000. If you can't trust them on this tiny thing you won't trust them to the tune of $18,000 for 105,000 points or $80-100,000 for enough to become platinum or $150,000+ to become presidential Reserve. Like the 220 million Euros lottery winner scam, they make it obvious enough that if you aren't going to take those first little leaps they know they won't have you for the giant leaps they want you to take later so better throw you back and hook someone else. They want you to think you found a loophole to the "fabulous" life of a VIP and no matter how much you spend, they will always find a problem that can be solved with an $18,000-$20,000 purchase.

Presidential Reserve is excluded and that is in writing. So I for sure am out of reach for that.

I get the point. But again, I have no intention nor will I ever of giving them my money above and beyond renting points for my own benefit. And I made that perfectly clear to them.

I just get the feeling they are moving away from caring about mine or anyone elses "purchase" and are becoming more focused on renting in this program to as many people as possible and if by some slim chance those people buy in later, great. If not, they have many more lined up to rent more.
 

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Thought you had an end date of 2020. You are right. Its already there. The duration of your contract stops, ends.

As long as Wyndham's takes a live and let live, im fine, the benefits have to be equal in value to money spent. So no there is no animosity. Yet.

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk

I do have an extension til 2020 and yes my contract ends then UNLESS I can rent units the entire 2 years until then AND the purchase of those rentals can be applied towards me purchasing a VIP level unit. If so, I would consider signing up for the maintenance committment if its worth it financially. (I find I can make decent money renting them out).

If any or one of the above scenarios dont work out, then I walk away. so for me, it has to be a TRUE try before you buy and other perks as well.
 

raygo123

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Presidential Reserve is excluded and that is in writing. So I for sure am out of reach for that.

I get the point. But again, I have no intention nor will I ever of giving them my money above and beyond renting points for my own benefit. And I made that perfectly clear to them.

I just get the feeling they are moving away from caring about mine or anyone elses "purchase" and are becoming more focused on renting in this program to as many people as possible and if by some slim chance those people buy in later, great. If not, they have many more lined up to rent more.
Yep, Wyndham pays the maintenance fees on what they own. It keeps paying their fare share of the bills. If they want to sell you the points to get their money back, they own them, right?

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tschwa2

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So I am confused are you rescinding or keeping the discovery package. You aren't going to know if it will work before your time is up to rescind on that one.
 

raygo123

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Presidential Reserve is excluded and that is in writing. So I for sure am out of reach for that.

I get the point. But again, I have no intention nor will I ever of giving them my money above and beyond renting points for my own benefit. And I made that perfectly clear to them.

I just get the feeling they are moving away from caring about mine or anyone elses "purchase" and are becoming more focused on renting in this program to as many people as possible and if by some slim chance those people buy in later, great. If not, they have many more lined up to rent more.
That's funny.
I do have an extension til 2020 and yes my contract ends then UNLESS I can rent units the entire 2 years until then AND the purchase of those rentals can be applied towards me purchasing a VIP level unit. If so, I would consider signing up for the maintenance committment if its worth it financially. (I find I can make decent money renting them out).

If any or one of the above scenarios dont work out, then I walk away. so for me, it has to be a TRUE try before you buy and other perks as well.


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Yep, Wyndham pays the maintenance fees on what they own. It keeps paying their fare share of the bills. If they want to sell you the points to get their money back, they own them, right?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk

Well, of course they do and they have every right to sell them to anyone. I just dont think nor do I get the impression that is their focus anymore. I get the impression they are trying to make current owners life way more difficult and rent the units themselves. and they could care less what anyone in Discovery does with those rentals as long as it covers their costs.

I personally think its a conflict of interest for them to have both these programs at the same time, I find it very odd they are so willingly taking units off anyones hands if they dont have some financial gain like this to do so, and on top of that I personally get the feeling they are holding back OWNERS inventory that legally they probably shouldnt.

I may be way off base on these assumptions. But why offer this program at all IF THEY DONT CARE about my $3,000? Why spend so much time and money offering these rentals to people like me?

I think perhaps some owners are trusting Wyndham a little too much. I would have a lot more questions about this stuff going on.

And just so everyone knows, Ive been to presentations in the past. The "environment" at these for Wyndham is now different. People are much more willing to sign up for something they can use with zero commitment. And they are and Wyndhams sales pitch is all geared towards THAT and THAT alone. Nobody is buying from them anymore. They are entering into this program and everyone is walking out of the presentations happy.

Im sorry, but if I were an owner, this would really worry me and what it means for my investment in them.
 
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TSGuest2017

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So I am confused are you rescinding or keeping the discovery package. You aren't going to know if it will work before your time is up to rescind on that one.

Part 1 - booking MY personal vacation I can do immediately and plan to tomorrow.

If I cant do that like I want, I am out. If part 1 goes ok, no loss as I would have spent the $3k on my vacations anyhow.

Then I will move to Part II which is buying more points under my current membership but in someone else name. I will likely do it for a friend or family member in case it doesnt work out that way no harm done to anyone. They will know they only pay me if it works.

Part III is after above 2 are done call and ask how many dollars I have available towards purchasing from them.

So I dont know what I will do until tomorrow. If the inventory is NOT good for my pretty short term wants Im out. If Inventory is good, I will use the vacations and then start playing around in parts II and III. At that point im only wasting my time, not my money.

But, I will be asking my personal booking agent (which is absurd) about II and III tomorrow. They may be able to answer me right then.
 
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TSGuest2017

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That's funny.



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Its ONLY excluded for me for applying THIS contracts purchases to Presidential Reserve. Which is the exact reason I truly think there is a shot they will let me buy more points under this Discovery Agreement and apply them to a VIP Owner purchase. If they wouldnt allow it, why is only that one level in writing saying I cant apply my points purchases to that level ownership?

So in other words, if by some slim chance I can buy in using purchases of points (my credits) I could only go to platinum level with my credits. After that, i would have to buy the difference in points from Platinum to Presidential reserve once Im an owner.
 
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cayman01

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Its ONLY excluded for me for applying THIS contracts purchases to Presidential Reserve. Which is the exact reason I truly think there is a shot they will let me buy more points under this Discovery Agreement and apply them to a VIP Owner purchase. If they wouldnt allow it, why is only that one level in writing saying I cant apply my points purchases to that level ownership?

So in other words, if by some slim chance I can buy in using purchases of points (my credits) I could only go to platinum level with my credits. After that, i would have to buy the difference in points from Platinum to Presidential reserve once Im an owner.

They are not going to let you keep buying points, renting them, and then applying the cost towards a permanent VIP account. In the end you are going to end up with a TEMPORARY VIP account that will expire after so many years. That is the question you need to ask tomorrow, and then see it in writing that it is PERMANENT VIP status for the $25k price . Dollars to donuts you don't get it. These guys lie like rugs.
 

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Well, of course they do and they have every right to sell them to anyone. I just dont think nor do I get the impression that is their focus anymore. I get the impression they are trying to make current owners life way more difficult and rent the units themselves. and they could care less what anyone in Discovery does with those rentals as long as it covers their costs.

I personally think its a conflict of interest for them to have both these programs at the same time, I find it very odd they are so willingly taking units off anyones hands if they dont have some financial gain like this to do so, and on top of that I personally get the feeling they are holding back OWNERS inventory that legally they probably shouldnt.

I may be way off base on these assumptions. But why offer this program at all IF THEY DONT CARE about my $3,000? Why spend so much time and money offering these rentals to people like me?

I think perhaps some owners are trusting Wyndham a little too much. I would have a lot more questions about this stuff going on.

And just so everyone knows, Ive been to presentations in the past. The "environment" at these for Wyndham is now different. People are much more willing to sign up for something they can use with zero commitment. And they are and Wyndhams sales pitch is all geared towards THAT and THAT alone. Nobody is buying from them anymore. They are entering into this program and everyone is walking out of the presentations happy.

Im sorry, but if I were an owner, this would really worry me and what it means for my investment in them.

They care about your $3k. It helps pay the bills. The salesmen get some cash, and then maybe you come back and buy from Wyndham after your Discovery period. Its an investment by Wyndham that YOU pay for.

People are buying PLENTY from them. They wouldn't be taking back deeds if they weren't. Those Ovation contracts more than likely have HIGH maintenance fees and Wyndham wouldn't be taking them back if they couldn't get rid of them quickly . They don't want to pay the fees any more than the previous owner did.
 

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You can't. If you buy in with the credit from your discovery package you won't be eligible for another non owner package like discovery. Owners can't take a discovery package. As mentioned your $18,000 won't even get you a fifth of the way to VIP.

Actually, some time ago, there was an ability for current owners to also add a Discovery Package. That may no longer be possible, but Ron P. and I had a contact some time ago that had offered it to us. The terms were very much similar to what the OP has described with some of the same hooks (everything you put into it can be rolled into a purchase, etc.)

That being said, I didn't end up pulling the trigger, but it was something that was possible at the time. This was over a year ago though.
 

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Actually, some time ago, there was an ability for current owners to also add a Discovery Package. That may no longer be possible, but Ron P. and I had a contact some time ago that had offered it to us. The terms were very much similar to what the OP has described with some of the same hooks (everything you put into it can be rolled into a purchase, etc.)

That being said, I didn't end up pulling the trigger, but it was something that was possible at the time. This was over a year ago though.

Right. trust me guys and gals.....I GET that these people lie any time their mouths move or at least word it to where you dont get the full truth. But Im pretty good at getting and finding the best deals, and Im telling you, something is "off" here and to me it seems like the only one benefiting is Wyndham. And IF the people who sign up for the "try before you buy" know how to use it, they MAY be able to work this system to a better advantage.

I will update tomorrow with more details. I just really think there is more to this than owners are being told.
 

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They are not going to let you keep buying points, renting them, and then applying the cost towards a permanent VIP account. In the end you are going to end up with a TEMPORARY VIP account that will expire after so many years. That is the question you need to ask tomorrow, and then see it in writing that it is PERMANENT VIP status for the $25k price . Dollars to donuts you don't get it. These guys lie like rugs.

No, I DO get it and Im perfectly fine with a temporary VIP for the $3,000 I paid IF and ONLY if I can use them for the two vacations I want. If not I will cancel. So Im fine with it unless the availability isnt there which is why i bought it.

But in the research Ive done and just talking to them, I am pretty sure I can keep rolling this to achieve VIP status for little cost out of my own pocket. IF i even want that when that time rolls around. Worst case I am out some time.

Im leaning towards not ever wanting it if nobody as an owner is clear on this stuff even existing and what it could really mean for them. Because Im not sure I ever want to be in that position even if i somehow could achieve this status for little of my own $.
 

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It just seems to me two things are at play here

1)They would LOVE for anyone to buy from them if they can charge 14-17% interest rate which THAT is where they make money from Owners. And the sales guy actually admitted that to me. And then when that person can no longer afford the payments and/or wants out of the maintenance they work a deal to take it off their hands for nect to nothing. WHY? No other business I know of does shit like that.

2) If individual is against #1 due to the high interest rate, they offer up the world to get your money to cover their maintenance fees at some point later down the line.

Because I refused to apply for anything and never gave them my social security number. But when they said "well, we need it to see what you qualify for to offer you the best deal"....in which case i simply provided proof I wouldnt have any problems paying cash from my bank account and showed them I could pay their maintenance fees no problem. And at that point they offer me this program to bank any purchases under the "Try Before you Buy" to a later purchase.

They either want owners to pay high interest rates OR be well qualified to support their maintenance fees. And if the latter is better, perhaps better perks to buy in?

I would be curious to find out how many people are paying the high interest rates and struggle with the maintenance fees and if so if Wyndham takes them off their hands to offer to someone like me or well qualified owners they have no problems getting all their maintenance fees paid timely. And in the meantime, the non-VIP members are getting screwed over on the availability of what they want and should be able to use their points for and suspending accounts to make it difficult for owners to rent their units out.

Seems very very strange to me
 
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tschwa2

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Wyndham has actually done quite nicely over the last 3 years taking inventory back for $0 from people who have completely paid off there $20,000-$100,000+ purchases (principle and interest) who simply decided they don't want to deal with the $2000-$15,000 annual MF anymore. Taking that inventory and selling it to new and existing owners again for $20,000+ per 120,000 points.
 
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