Hyatt Pure Points Program

[nuwermj]

Just wondering what that structure would actually look like. I believe that some of the other systems have exclusivity for a time with the "pure points" and then after a certain dibs period, any "points" can be used to book remaining available inventory.

Not Diamond Resorts. They maintain two inventory pools. Legacy owners can purchase access to the pure point pool, but otherwise the pools are completely separate.

The problem for Legacy owners has been that, over time, their pool gets smaller and smaller.

 

[nuwermj]

I own several Hyatt weeks and several Marriott weeks and Marriott points. Marriott had two extremely important issues for the points program:
1. owners paid to enroll weeks in points and gain the flexibility of the points system.

2. Only secondary market weeks purchased before June 2010 could enroll in points. The weeks retain original week ownership, but, cannot exchange for points.

Hyatt might find a way to limit acc SS to PPP for weeks purchased after a certain date. This date is likely tied to introduction of the PPP. Seems like you want to buy a secondary market week sooner rather than later.

Diamond Resorts also allows legacy owners to buy into their point system. There is no restriction on when or how the unit was purchased. But Diamond requires the legacy owner to make a point purchase. If a unit is valued at, say 2,000 points, the owner must buy an additional 1,000 trust fund points. Then all 3,000 points have access to the points pool inventory and the legacy unit is added to the points pool inventory (but not owned by the trust fund).

 

[nuwermj]

Interesting point. If we use the scenario where there are numerous unsold inventory and Vistana properties in the PP pool and only a hand full of PP members, those members could be facing a large pro-rata share of the combined maintenance fees. Having said that, the owners of the unsold inventory (developer) and Vistana would become PP members too and have to pay much larger M/Fs.

I don't think the PP members are responsible for the combined fees. When Hyatt deposits a deed into the trust fund, they become the owner of the points. Hyatt is then responsible for the fees on those points. And the Vistana properties will like be available under some kind of reciprocal exchange agreement. Similar to the way Wyndham and Worldmark members access to each other's inventory.

 

[Kal]

I don't think the PP members are responsible for the combined fees. When Hyatt deposits a deed into the trust fund, they become the owner of the points. Hyatt is then responsible for the fees on those points. And the Vistana properties will like be available under some kind of reciprocal exchange agreement. Similar to the way Wyndham and Worldmark members access to each other's inventory.

So are you saying the PPP member contributes a Hyatt legacy unit to the PP Program plus whatever entrance fee is required and that's it? No M/F from then on??? I don't think so. There's still mandatory M/Fs on all the units in the PPP. Who pays those M/F?

 

[nuwermj]

So are you saying the PPP member contributes a Hyatt legacy unit to the PP Program plus whatever entrance fee is required and that's it? No M/F from then on??? I don't think so. There's still mandatory M/Fs on all the units in the PPP. Who pays those M/F?

No, I didn't mean to say that. Say the trust fund owns 100 deeds; each valued at 2,000 points; and each with an annual MF payable to the HOA of $1,000. The trust fund owes the HOAs $100,000 and that amount is divided over 200,000 points, or $0.5 per point. If 25% of the points are unsold, Hyatt owns them and must pay $25,000 to the trust fund. Members pay the remaining $75,000 ($0.5 x 150,000pts.). Sorry for the confusion.

 

[DAman]

As I think about it I continue wonder what will draw people to purchase PPP....and what will entice current owners to deposit their weeks? We have pondered this above.

If there is no Maui, and no reduction of reservation/cancellation fees, and increased MF or dues whatever they decide to call them, why would I purchase? Why would I convert my deeded weeks? I'm sure sales is trying to figure this out.

They are messing with a system that works well for me. Why corrupt the current system with an overlay? Why don't they just build onto the current system? They have a points system that with a few tweaks could accomplish what PPP is going to do(or what we speculate it is going to do). I see it as a money grab.

 

[Cropman]

They are messing with a system that works well for me. Why corrupt the current system with an overlay? Why don't they just build onto the current system? They have a points system that with a few tweaks could accomplish what PPP is going to do(or what we speculate it is going to do). I see it as a money grab.

Lol, ya think? Hyatt is moving their sales center from Windward Pointe to Old Town in Key West. They wouldn't be doing that without thinking this will bring in a great return on their money.

I agree, the system seems to work well for a lot of people. So, Hyatt is going to, at first, have to design a program to get people to want to switch over to it. And not only switch, but probably pay for the privilege to switch. Also, as has been said quite often, get people to give up their legacy weeks to the trust.

While I don't think people switching will happen a lot at first, I think Hyatt will force it later on. My speculation is that Hyatt will not allow sold or transferred weeks to participate in the new trust. As more and more weeks get forced/voluntarily transferred, it will kill the legacy program.

We shall see what it brings. Just wish we had a better idea so I could decide if I should buy another week or not.

 

[nuwermj]

Why corrupt the current system with an overlay? Why don't they just build onto the current system?

Whatever other reasons they may have, developer's like pure points systems because (1) it is easier to sell low demand intervals. Points backed by a blue week can be used for a red week reservation, and they are sold that way. Thus, all sales can be framed "red week" points and prime time tend to be over sold. (2) A given sales center (say a productive one) is not limited to inventory at that location. Each sales center can sell system wide inventory. (3) It is easier to sell partial weeks.

 

[Kal]

... I see it as a money grab.

OMG you're painting the timeshare industry as out for money, more money than what they can get from status quo. Is that bordering on heresay??

The switch from weeks to points has been going on for the industry for many years. That presents all kinds of opportunities to increase profits. A favorite technique is to increase the number of points it takes to make a reservation (just like airline miles programs). To overcome this, the mark (timeshare owners) must get more point$.

Hyatt is one of the very last to jump on this program as they already had a points program in place. Now, how to they do this and be like the other guys? Hyatt's answer was simple...bail out and let someone else try to make it work. ILG said "I can do it". But then came the drama of deeded properties. And the demand for an extreme sales pitch.

 

[lizap]

Lol, ya think? Hyatt is moving their sales center from Windward Pointe to Old Town in Key West. They wouldn't be doing that without thinking this will bring in a great return on their money.

I agree, the system seems to work well for a lot of people. So, Hyatt is going to, at first, have to design a program to get people to want to switch over to it. And not only switch, but probably pay for the privilege to switch. Also, as has been said quite often, get people to give up their legacy weeks to the trust.

While I don't think people switching will happen a lot at first, I think Hyatt will force it later on. My speculation is that Hyatt will not allow sold or transferred weeks to participate in the new trust. As more and more weeks get forced/voluntarily transferred, it will kill the legacy program.

We shall see what it brings. Just wish we had a better idea so I could decide if I should buy another week or not.

I disagree. Hyatt (ILG) will find a way to entice current owners to buy into the new system without damaging the current system, perhaps with new resorts, new buildings, similar to what Vistana has done with FLEX. I remember when there was all this speculation on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of FLEX, and so far, I have seen no impact on deeded owners.

 

[Cropman]

I disagree. Hyatt (ILG) will find a way to entice current owners to buy into the new system without damaging the current system, perhaps with new resorts, new buildings, similar to what Vistana has done with FLEX. I remember when there was all this speculation on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of FLEX, and so far, I have seen no impact on deeded owners.

I hope you're right. I guess I'm just cautious that it wil be both beneficial to owners and Hyatt/ILG. It would be fantastic if you are correct.

Lizap, just out of curiosity, what has happened to resale prices with Vistana after FLEX? Thanks!

JC

 

[DAman]

OMG you're painting the timeshare industry as out for money, more money than what they can get from status quo. Is that bordering on heresay??

The switch from weeks to points has been going on for the industry for many years. That presents all kinds of opportunities to increase profits. A favorite technique is to increase the number of points it takes to make a reservation (just like airline miles programs). To overcome this, the mark (timeshare owners) must get more point$.

Hyatt is one of the very last to jump on this program as they already had a points program in place. Now, how to they do this and be like the other guys? Hyatt's answer was simple...bail out and let someone else try to make it work. ILG said "I can do it". But then came the drama of deeded properties. And the demand for an extreme sales pitch.

How will they get current owners to switch? And pay $$ to do it? With higher fees? I don't see myself going for the PPP sales pitch(but I don't respond to requests to attend "owner updates" anymore).

How do they sell to new people(since current owners theoretically can get Maui with current system) without Maui?

I'm also waiting for Marriott type junk fees for the resale of points.

I know I'm shocked that this industry would try a money grab....I thought Hyatt was above it.

I'm off to Pinon Pointe next week. I may have to go to an "update" to ask PPP questions.

 

[lizap]

I hope you're right. I guess I'm just cautious that it wil be both beneficial to owners and Hyatt/ILG. It would be fantastic if you are correct.

Lizap, just out of curiosity, what has happened to resale prices with Vistana after FLEX? Thanks!

JC

If anything, our WKV 2 BR plat. has increased in value a little..

 

[youppi]

I know I'm shocked that this industry would try a money grab....I thought Hyatt was above it.

Don't forget that Hyatt has been sold to ILG and ILG must recover their money and also make more money for their shareholders.
ILG is the mother of II and remember how II has introduced the upgrade fee last year for week exchanger and also how much higher are now many Getaways on II since the purchase of Hyatt and VSE by ILG.

 

[taffy19]

Don't forget that Hyatt has been sold to ILG and ILG must recover their money and also make more money for their shareholders.
ILG is the mother of II and remember how II has introduced the upgrade fee last year for week exchanger and also how much higher are now many Getaways on II since the purchase of Hyatt and VSE by ILG.

The upgrade fees may be there to entice you to go over to the new PP program and you will no longer have all the other fees.

Marriott did this and this enticed many people but we were not required to give up our deed. I would never do that but I believe that I read this here. It may have been salesman talk.

There may be a yearly fee to belong to this program and a fee to join it. Marriott did that too but it was a wash because they gave you points to use within a certain time.

There is supposed to be an improvement and I still believe that we may be able to use other hotel brands as well if they affiliate themselves with ILG and even with a competitor (RCI) too so the Hilton and Disney are part of it too and there may be more highly desirable resorts or locations to choose from.

If it is really true that a requirement is to give up your deed then I can see that some States do not agree to that and there are legal hurdles so a delay. I read here that AZ, CA and Hi were mentioned.

How many people will want to do this if they bought a high season and view and for mainly using the resort, I wonder? Not me if giving up the deed was a requirement.

 

[planzfortomorrow]

All of this speculation is very interesting. I've also pondered what would entice me to join a pure points program. I have wyndam as well, and it's extremely flexible, so a similar points system would be enticing. I WOULD be interested if some of the items someone listed above were included-mostly, the ability to combine points, to stay at new resorts (or different ILG resorts), the ability to book less than or more than a week, and/or have a different start day.

How much would I pay for this? Honestly, not much. Less than $1,500-and I'd really have to think about it with that price. And I'd REFUSE if I had to give up my deeded week to participate. And it's only a silver week!!! Like others, I don't know what you could do to have someone give over a premium deeded week. I've been thinking of the possible changes, and ultimately, I picked this week as it works with both school & work schedules. I had to wait over 3 years to find one I wanted at a price I was willing to pay. To give up that certainty for some uncertain week-and to pay for that uncertainty? Nope. Do I think that Hyatt would even offer such benefits for such a low price? Nope.

If the points program is just the best thing since sliced bread...then I will probably be able to buy those points on the resale market in a few years--this was what happened with Wyndham--it was cheaper to buy points than to take your deeded week & convert to points. Right now I've got more timeshare than vacation time anyway. And if I do need to trade, and it's no longer favorable to trade in the Hyatt system because of dwindling choices? I'll still have the option to use II or RCI or whatever independent exchange system. So ultimately, I don't think the pure points system will matter much to me.

For everyone who mainly bought their Hyatt unit to trade, they might think differently.

 

[Kal]

At a recent owners update meeting, Hyatt indicated the PPP might be similar to the Marriott program. Members with more points get an advantage over others who own fewer points. One advantage would be where you have priority in reserving a PPP unit. The pool might open to a high points owner a month or two before it opens to a lower point owner. The bottom line is to pressure existing and new PPP members to purchase more and more pure points. Hmmmmm, sounds like a slick sales trick (as always).

 

[dahntahn]

Attended the sales presentation yesterday at Coconut Plantation where they have just reopened the newly renovated old sales center, since we were offered a $100 credit on our bill to attend. Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market. Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.
The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt. He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years. I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid. He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000. When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.
He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers. ( We are not interested in selling.)
We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details. He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share. He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.
The new building # 4 at Coconut that is to be started in the next couple of months and the new construction at Wild Oak will be sold only through the new points trust ( no deeded weeks.). He agreed with Kal that now is the time to buy a deeded week if you can find one and get past ROFR. He also thought that resale prices of high point weeks will rise as Hyatt competes with resale buyers for deeded weeks.
The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed. It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here. Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.

 

[WalnutBaron]

Attended the sales presentation yesterday at Coconut Plantation where they have just reopened the newly renovated old sales center, since we were offered a $100 credit on our bill to attend. Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market. Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.
The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt. He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years. I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid. He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000. When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.
He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers. ( We are not interested in selling.)
We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details. He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share. He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.
The new building # 4 at Coconut that is to be started in the next couple of months and the new construction at Wild Oak will be sold only through the new points trust ( no deeded weeks.). He agreed with Kal that now is the time to buy a deeded week if you can find one and get past ROFR. He also thought that resale prices of high point weeks will rise as Hyatt competes with resale buyers for deeded weeks.
The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed. It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here. Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.

Great post, dahntahn, and welcome to TUG! A few thoughts: 1) I completely agree that now is the time to buy resale if anyone is on the fence and thinking about it, for two reasons: a) Hyatt's desire for buying back weeks to place into the Pure Points trust is going to drive demand, especially for desirable weeks and could mean prices for resales will start to rise (in fact, they are already modestly rising for Diamond and Platinum weeks at the more popular resorts); b) once the Pure Points Program is firmly in place nationally, getting resale purchases through the ROFR process is going to be increasingly difficult; 2) as has been mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, ILG is having a heck of a time fine-tuning their program to create enough incentive for legacy owners to be willing to convert their fixed weeks to the PPP, as is evidenced by the delay in launching from late March to sometime in July--maybe; 3) I think legacy owners like you and me are going to be in the catbird seat once the PPP is fully in place. Expect unsolicited offers from ILG to purchase our weeks, and increasingly attractive incentives to get us to convert. Owners will be making their own decisions, but--as for me--I cannot even imagine selling or converting, as I own at two properties I love--Carmel and Sedona; 4) I love your handle name! Let me know the next time you're in dahntahn Pittsburgh and I'll red up the hahs for you.

 

[Kal]

It clearly appears that Hyatt recognizes it will be very difficult to get legacy owners to join the PPP. It will take some serious Hyatt cash to buy the legacy units. As I see it, the major flaw in the PPP is the partial roll out in Florida while the rest of the nation is legacy business as always. A person could still purchase a unit-week elsewhere, but the price will most likely be higher than now. The multi-tier of PPP ownership is definitely not an incentive for legacy owners with limited points to buy in.

 

[DazedandConfused]

Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?

 

[lizap]

Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?

No. This is all speculation at this point. I remember over on the Vistana forum prior to the rollout of Sheraton Flex all the speculation about the potential adverse effects of Sheraton Flex. So far, no impact whatsoever, as far as I can tell...

 

[Cropman]

Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?

Unfortunately, not yet. Right now there is a lot of speculation and educated guesses.

JC

 

[WalnutBaron]

Is there a link to detailed information on the Hyatt new points system?

Suffice to say that whatever it is, there is little to zero chance that current HRC owners will benefit. It's also a very safe bet that those who buy into the PPP are going to get less for more.

 

[bdh]

Previously we had been told that incentives to go to such presentations were NOT offered to those of us who had bought on the secondary market. Apparently they have decided they need to reach all possible sources of sales and also to entice us to consider selling back to Hyatt so that they will have more access for the new pure points folks to come to the original HRC properties.

Hyatt revised their position on excluding resale buyers from owner updates 2+ years ago - no doubt when sales of weeks slowed over the previous 5 years, they realized they'd be better off not excluding any HRC owner as everyone's money is green.

The salesperson, Max, was the most straightforward and honest salesperson we have encountered in many such sessions over the years we have owned Hyatt. He is retired from selling at Disney for 35 years. I know that you can usually count on chicanery from the sales weasels, but this guy was refreshingly candid. He wanted to know if we would be interested in buying another 2000 point week for $ 19,000, explaining that this was a very good price and that once Hyatt received OK from the state of Florida the price would jump to $ 41,000. When we pointed out that to someone who had paid developer price in the past this would look pretty good, but to us who had bought our week 2 here on eBay for $ 2500 it was ridiculously high, he agreed and stopped any attempt to sell us anything.

Have never met an HRC sales person that was high pressure or a total con man. The biggest and most frequent non-truth is that Hyatt is buying every week that comes across their plate via ROFR. As prices go, the $19K for 2000 pts is a big discount relative to their previous developer prices - no doubt its high compared to what 2000 pts goes for on the open resale market right now (saw a WP 2200 pt week for $6500 last week). Since they will no longer be selling deeds mid-summer this year, the $41K will be the price point for a 7 day stay when the PPP is rolled out.

He did say that Hyatt would be interested in buying back from us our Diamond and Platinum weeks at Beach House but that would have to be investigated through corporate by contacting owner services and did not know any price numbers.

This would be a big change for Hyatt as they have never offered to buy back weeks via a direct owner offer/request - they would ONLY buy back via ROFR. You'd have to believe Hyatt would be selective (and short armed) about which properties/weeks/price - expect BH, WP and SH weeks would be toward the top of their list due to the popularity of KW these days.

We asked about the new points program and once again were told that the sales people are still in the dark about the details. He assumes that legacy owners will be offered a chance to participate for some kind of a fee like Marriott, but did not have any number to share. He did agree that the new points folks would not have any trading access to the legacy owned units, except through the Hyatt owned units at the properties. There will be tiers of ownership based on how many points you buy, with those owning more points having more perks and advantaged access to the inventory than those who own less.

The sales staff training was suppose be Feb 20 and they would start the PPP sales on Feb 21. However when the PPP roll out was delayed due to legal issues, the sales training was pushed back as well. As long as the two buckets of weeks (legacy and PPP) are separate, there isn't much a threat to current deeded week owners internal exchange opportunities. There is no doubt there will be tiers of perks relative to amount of points owned. When you look at the change from the Gold Passport program to the World of Hyatt program, that's exactly what happened 3 weeks ago on its roll out - the higher your point total, the more/better the perks are.

The renovated sales center is quite large and nicely appointed. It is obviously designed for a pretty large sales force to sell the new points program around the new building here. Their model of the eventual campus here shows 14 total buildings, which seems very ambitious for the present market.

14 total buildings at CP is overly ambitious and most likely wrong. There is no way the PPP will be that successful and also no way there's enough on site features/pools to support that many units. Expect the campus model is the old one before they found the eagle nest 10+ years ago that shut down the construction of additional buildings.


Shifting gears: As far as getting current HRC owners to consider the PPP - what if HRC allowed a deeded owner to enroll their deeded week in the PPP for a small fee (say $1K). The deeded owner could keep their deeded week and toggle back and forth between the legacy week product and the PPP product on a year to year basis. Would you do it to have access to the other PPP properties owned by ILG (ie: Sheraton which is now Vistana) and have more flexibility as to shorter stays and different check in dates than Sat or Sun?