I sold my timeshare!

[mstoyanov]

If it is not hard to prove maybe you can show us a single successful criminal case against such PCC? I am sorry but there is nothing easy in criminal cases where charges much be proven against much higher standard - "beyond reasonable doubt". And if you think it is clear cut which timeshares are worthless and not (which is not), how can HOA can defend themselves for trying to preserve resort as a timeshare and force people to pay for such worthless weeks? See you never have these problems in residential HOA since real estate property actually have value and HOA will be very happy to foreclose against such property.

It would not be hard to prove when they know going in they can't sell yet take money to do so - fraud. They can try to deed back (as the owner can as well) but that is no defense as the resort has ZERO obligation to take an ownership back while the OWNER has an absolute obligation to pay the fees due on time & in full. No contest in any court. Fraud would be harder but not at all impossible to prove. Once the first case gets won the rest fall in place as the precedent will be set.



They do & have to. It's called foreclosure, it cost the owner nothing in cash and works at every resort. It involves a credit hit but you can't expect to get out of a bad choice YOU made for absolutely nothing - this is as close as you can get. And there are no $3000+ fees required.

 

[timeos2]

YES i agree going with a PCC is a dangerous procedure, just like Selling on EBAY...you HAVE TO make sure you Deed is transfered...beyond that, the simple process of making sure a deed transfer has happened....just like EVERY OTHER SALE....theres really NOTHING else to worry about...and you don't end up bankrupt and homeless because of it

This type of wild statement - completely untrue - also smacks of the fear & doubt tactics of the PCC "presentations". Be very careful before taking the advice to use any PCC at any cost. Beware.

You have an out if it is REALLY that bad. Don't pay & deal with the consequences. All legal, no questions & no cost. Far better than any PCC could ever do even if they were legit (and most aren't).

 

[TUGBrian]

timeos2,

I see you mentioned how original owners can face fraud charges.
How about instead of scare tactics you just show us a single criminal case that was brought and was successful against even a single PCC let alone a original owners that were bamboozled to pay $3-4K to get rid of their timeshare?
And if you can not find such a case I may actually help you figure why you haven't - PCCs have very simple defense against any criminal charges - all they need to do to show they acted in a good faith is to show they extensively tried to sell the week in question or deed it back to the resort. And it will not be very difficult to them - especially when they can easily show they offered a week multiple times for $1 (and sometimes with free bonuses to buyers).
See this EBay auction - not only the week is offered for $1 with free 2011 usage but buyer also gets a $300 AMEX gift card:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ATLANTIS-Nassau...30604617427?pt=Timeshares&hash=item35b11b36d3

The only criminal case that is easy to bring against PCCs is that they lied to the owners to scare them into how worthless the weeks they own are but to make such case you actually need people that paid these $3-4K to complain and testify. That is why you see successful criminal cases against upfront fees companies that do not deliver as promised but never against a PCCs that deed timeshare to one of their LLCs if such week can not be sold/deeded back to the resort.
And sorry for repeating myself but HOA members need to pull their heads from the sand and realize that the best way to counter PCCs is not by fear tactics against their owners but by competing with PCCs by offering exit solutions even if it cost the same amount of money as PCCs.
This is the only way to hit them where it matters - killing their source of income.

http://www.atg.state.vt.us/news/timeshare-repurchaser-settles-with-attorney-general.php

 

[Ridewithme38]

http://www.atg.state.vt.us/news/timeshare-repurchaser-settles-with-attorney-general.php

So if we use a PCC we get all our money back AND the title is out of our names?? Sweet! I'm liking that court case

 

[timeos2]

http://www.atg.state.vt.us/news/timeshare-repurchaser-settles-with-attorney-general.php

Beautiful - Thanks for the link Brian. As requested, there it is. There will be more. It can take awhile for the law to catch up to these rather creative swindlers but eventually they do. Don't be caught as part of the conspiracy by PAYING to take part. The risk is big & real that you'll be out not only thousands but have other charges and fees as well. Don't do it.

 

[DeniseM]

You contact the Resort to make sure its not in your name anymore....If the PCC doesn't Transfer it...You go to a different PCC....Just like if you were selling on Ebay or tug and the person never took ownership...

I don't understand the question

Ride - With a PCC you pay them upfront - So let's say you give them $3,000 and they don't transfer the TS out of your name. You keep calling and they keep making excuses. After 9 mos. you come to the conclusion that they aren't going to do it. Are you just going to forfeit your $$$ and move on to another PCC?

What about the contract you signed with the first PCC? How are you going to undo that?

BTW - How can you afford to pay a PCC $3,000 if you can't make your maintenance fee?

 

[mstoyanov]

Brian,

If you read that case you will see that the reason why they settled is not because they tried to defraud HOA but because:
1) People felt being mislead because they expected to be paid money instead of having to pay fee to PCC to take their ownership
2) They gave misleading tax advice
and finally
3) They did not complain with "Rescission laws" by providing 3 days as Required in Vermont.

Can you please show me where they were accused of conspiring to defraud HOA?

http://www.atg.state.vt.us/news/timeshare-repurchaser-settles-with-attorney-general.php

 

[TUGBrian]

I wasnt aware your comment requested such a specific term named in the lawsuit.

as I read both of your statements to say "why hasnt there been a single criminal case against a PCC"

then again I probably read it that way because thats what you typed =)


the lawsuit also doesnt mention they stole lucky charms from the leprechaun on the cereal box, but im not sure that matters in this particular discussion either.

 

[timeos2]

Brian,

If you read that case you will see that the reason why they settled is not because they tried to defraud HOA but because:
1) People felt being mislead because they expected to be paid money instead of having to pay fee to PCC to take their ownership
2) They gave misleading tax advice
and finally
3) They did not complain with "Rescission laws" by providing 3 days as Required in Vermont.

Can you please show me where they were accused of conspiring to defraud HOA?

It flows logically from the other factors most of to all of which are still done by most PCC operations. No matter how you try to cut it using a PCC is a costly & risky business. DON'T DO IT is far better advice.

 

[mstoyanov]

timeos2,

May be you should have actually bothered to read that link first.
If you actually bothered to read that case you will see that the reason why they settled is not because they tried to defraud HOA but because:
1) People felt being mislead because they expected to be paid money instead of having to pay fee to PCC to take their ownership
2) They gave misleading tax advice
and finally
3) They did not complain with "Rescission laws" by providing 3 days as Required in Vermont. (and I suspect this was the strongest point that caused the settlement).

And if you actually read the settlement it was only to refund fees that people paid due to non compliance with state "Rescission laws".

Can you please show me where they were accused of conspiring to defraud HOA?

Beautiful - Thanks for the link Brian. As requested, there it is. There will be more. It can take awhile for the law to catch up to these rather creative swindlers but eventually they do. Don't be caught as part of the conspiracy by PAYING to take part. The risk is big & real that you'll be out not only thousands but have other charges and fees as well. Don't do it.

 

[jnrgault]

RichardJFCG

Yes DeniseM, "Don't pay an up-front fee" is standard TUG advise. But how DO you sell a property without GIVING it away? I have been made an offer to take my property off my hands if I PAY THEM $3500.:annoyed: I am still wondering who of the TUG members have sold their timeshare and how are they doing it?

 

[TUGBrian]

big difference between "giving it away", and paying someone $3500 to take it.

in fact, there are 3500 reasons to do so.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Yes DeniseM, "Don't pay an up-front fee" is standard TUG advise. But how DO you sell a property without GIVING it away? I have been made an offer to take my property off my hands if I PAY THEM $3500.:annoyed: I am still wondering who of the TUG members have sold their timeshare and how are they doing it?

Tell them you'd like to use a independent Escrow company and that the money will be transfered when the title is...If they refuse go to someone else

 

[timeos2]

timeos2,

May be you should have actually bothered to read that link first.
If you actually bothered to read that case you will see that the reason why they settled is not because they tried to defraud HOA but because:
1) People felt being mislead because they expected to be paid money instead of having to pay fee to PCC to take their ownership
2) They gave misleading tax advice
and finally
3) They did not complain with "Rescission laws" by providing 3 days as Required in Vermont. (and I suspect this was the strongest point that caused the settlement).

And if you actually read the settlement it was only to refund fees that people paid due to non compliance with state "Rescission laws".

Can you please show me where they were accused of conspiring to defraud HOA?

As already noted it doesn't address that directly but many if not all three factors it DOES address are still common to PCC operations.

You do NOT want to be part of the first (or second oir third, etc) decision by a court - like this one - that finds the PCC (and thus the users of that service) guilty of any type of fraud or other violation. The reason so many people question the tactics/operation of the PCC's is because it is clear on the surface this isn't a legitimate way to go. Being that obvious can and will be used as proof of intent in courts and will go a long way toward convictions.

Why risk thousands when what you really want can be done for free? At EVERY resort if you decide that is needed. Simply stop paying. Eventually you will no longer own - not one cent from your pocket. Guaranteed and legal. What more do you want?

 

[DeniseM]

Yes DeniseM, "Don't pay an up-front fee" is standard TUG advise. But how DO you sell a property without GIVING it away? I have been made an offer to take my property off my hands if I PAY THEM $3500. I am still wondering who of the TUG members have sold their timeshare and how are they doing it?

Because of the economy, many timeshares have no resale value. Even nice timeshares. (Six of the 7 timeshares I own have no resale value.) That's a hard pill to swallow - especially if you bought from the developer.

So the bottom line is that you may not be able to sell your timeshare - but you may be able to give it away yourself, for FAR LESS than $3.00 AND you control the transfer - so you know it's done correctly.

I have gotten 2 timeshares that way, and I was happy to get them. With these "worthless" timeshares I've traded into Hawaii multiple times, Anaheim, and Tahoe, just to name a few. I recently rented one of my $1 timeshares for $1,200, as well.

More Info. - How can I give my TS away on TUG?

At the top of the Bargain Deals forum you will see a sticky that was recently started where people have posted about their success in giving away their TS on TUG. - http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139125

 

[TUGBrian]

Many have pointed out that if you are:

1. aware of what a PCC does
2. aware of the risks involved
3. have literally tried all options listed to give it away or deed it back
4. feel that the multi thousand dollar fee is "worth it"

then by all means use a PCC!

The main concern is individuals who dont fit items 1 thru 4...who are mislead into the ordeal and make a very expensive mistake.

TUG is here to educate and inform, if you enter into any sort of financial decision without knowing all the facts...thats a poor choice on your part.

if you have all the facts and still want to move forward, you wont find many who will continue to stand in your way.

 

[DeniseM]

Tell them you'd like to use a independent Escrow company and that the money will be transfered when the title is...If they refuse go to someone else

Ride - That is NEVER going to happen. NONE of the PCC's will agree to that! That's not their business model - they are ALL upfront fee companies!

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - With a PCC you pay them upfront - So let's say you give them $3,000 and they don't transfer the TS out of your name. You keep calling and they keep making excuses. After 9 mos. you come to the conclusion that they aren't going to do it. Are you just going to forfeit your $$$ and move on to another PCC?
?

Tell them you would like to use an indepentant escrow company and that the money will be transfered when the title is...If they refuse, go to someone else...

THIS IS WHY WE NEED A LIST OF HONEST PCC's, one that actually DO, TRANSFER THE TITLE...Placing all PCC's in one basket is bias and ignorant...we can see on EBAY every day PCC's that sell the TS's, we recieve reports ALL THE TIME of PCC's that own HUNDREDS of weeks at each resort...There are some bad ones, but there are some bad TS's too!

 

[mstoyanov]

So next time that company gather people on such "presentation" in Vermont they will simply add the required 3 day "rescind period" and continue to collect money from old and uninformed people.
I have never used nor plan to use PCCs except to purchase from their outlets on EBay and consider their services too costly to dispose unwanted timeshare.
I also own only prime season weeks at all the resort but I still blame HOA for not providing clear exit plan for owners that no longer want to own in any resort. As a minimum each HOA should offer at least what PCCs are offering - pay association same fee and deed it to them. It will be also in the best interest of the remaining owners - instead of wasting association money going trough expensive foreclosures, collect such fees and put them in association budget. And if too many blue weeks end up in the association close the whole resort during that time and offer owners usage in white weeks.

It flows logically from the other factors most of to all of which are still done by most PCC operations. No matter how you try to cut it using a PCC is a costly & risky business. DON'T DO IT is far better advice.

 

[TUGBrian]

I totally agree that HOA's should offer what the PCC's are....without the misleading tactics and false tax advice.

 

[timeos2]

Tell them you'd like to use a independent Escrow company and that the money will be transfered when the title is...If they refuse go to someone else

Few legitimate escrow companies will even take a PCC transaction on as they are tough to do & they too risk not being paid. Often if there is an escrow company it is just a other part of the PCC and offers NO guarantee to the sucker, er payee that is risking thousands on a scam operation.

DON'T DO IT! Listen to your gut - you know there is a bad smell around it. Listen to your common sense and you'll realize it isn't a good plan or expense when there are real options that won't cost you $$$.

 

[TUGBrian]

in fact if you found me a PCC that truthfully explained everything about the entire situation, didnt offer fraudulent tax advice, and didnt transfer intervals into bogus entities, you would probably see them advertised/promoted on TUG.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Few legitimate escrow companies will even take a PCC transaction on as they are tough to do & they too risk not being paid. Often if there is an escrow company it is just a other part of the PCC and offers NO guarantee to the sucker, er payee that is risking thousands on a scam operation.

DON'T DO IT! Listen to your gut - you know there is a bad smell around it. Listen to your common sense and you'll realize it isn't a good plan or expense when there are real options that won't cost you $$$.

Timeo...are you a member of a HOA? You seem to have been toeing the corporate line this whole thread

 

[AwayWeGo]

Giving Away Timeshares.

I am still wondering who of the TUG members have sold their timeshare and how are they doing it?

We sold 1 in 2003 for $3,500 -- same as the price we paid for it in 2002.

The economy had tanked by the time we were ready to unload 2 other timeshares, so we gave'm away last year -- 1 deeded back to the resort (with their approval) & 1 transferred free to a fellow TUG member.

It would have been cheaper to keep'm than to get hornswoggled by some PCC.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Ridewithme38]

in fact if you found me a PCC that truthfully explained everything about the entire situation, didnt offer fraudulent tax advice, and didnt transfer intervals into bogus entities, you would probably see them advertised/promoted on TUG.

See i don't get the problem with transferring intervals into bogus entities...IF the TS's weren't trying to scam people by saying the value will only go up and you'll be able to sell it at anytime, then over selling every week...and oh yah, in small print, you'll own it FOREVER...the PCC's wouldn't need to transfer into bogus entities...the resort's would still have some resale value

If it saves JUST ONE person from losing their home...its worth it to me