[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[Jason245]

I'm lost. Where did you get $30k? And what is the $5k rental? What's the 2,360 mf?

Regarding interest, I don't think you should factor the returns associated with one investment option when calculating the returns of another. The risk/return/liquidity tradeoff with investments is a given. Otherwise why use a 2% CD? Why not a 3% treasury or 5% investment grade corporate bond?

I am being conservative or return on 30k.. change it to 5 percent for different scenarios. .. Mf comes from OP original post. 5k is a number I threw out there as a starting point based on the rates people are throwing out as value for point. Change 5k for 4400 or 4000 for different scenarios.

I am all about simple back of napkin math to figure things out and like to see real dollars. Not return percentages.

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[Saintsfanfl]

Unlike comparing different investment vehicles, there really isn't an equivalent comparison to the deal the OP received. The only exception is could they have gotten the price lower or could they have gotten a better week to bundle. Marriott.com is sometimes cheaper than maintenance fees and definitely when factoring up front costs but not at prime locations during prime time.

The argument is getting to the point of "never ever vacation at x because y is cheaper". Vacations are a want and not a need so there are so many variables at play that each situation is unique and no one analysis can be done to make the decision the same for two people.

Is a billionaire stupid for building a beach house that they visit only a few weeks a year? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but the billionaire won't care.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

Yeah i think this has been covered from just about every angle at this point!

 

[Saintsfanfl]

You seriously got a complete TUG crash course in your first post!

 

[GoldenVIKE]

You seriously got a complete TUG crash course in your first post!

Now I'm just going for trophy points!

 

[Quilter]

But in Greg T's example where he books multiple reservations on different dates because of work uncertainty, and then cancels the ones he can't use when he pins down the date he can travel, how would that work with your Chairman's Level rental approach? My take is he would have to pay the Chairman Owner for all the reservations right? Then what happens when he cancels? Do you give him his money back? Even if you tried to work with him and refunded the unwanted reservations the first time it happened, how would you react when Greg called you back next year wanting to do the same thing?

Granted, I could see where Greg's situation is not typical, but even us, with our limited ownership, have canceled four reservations in the three years we've owned Marriott Points. None were because of issues that "prevented" us from traveling that would tend to be covered by an insurance policy; there were just factors that caused US to change our minds. Most recently, we canceled a planned four-day late June trip to HHI because we had second thoughts about going again in the heat of the summer. I doubt that "fear of uncontrolled sweating" would fit the insurer's definition of "prevented". I suspect we would have been out of luck if our canceled reservations were the type of rentals you are speaking of. Despite the cancellations, at no time have we lost the utilization/value of our points, with the exception of 75 excess points that are leftover in the holding account and 25 Legacy points that couldn't be used for a booking that was mainly booked with Trust points. We may still find a way to use those 100 points before they expire in December 2017, but if we can't, so what? It's $53.

Update: By total coincidence I just stumbled on a use for those 100 orphan points mentioned just above. See post #334. So now, ALL points from the reservations we had to cancel have been successfully used for other bookings. No shrinkage at all.

Jim, I too make and cancel reservations on a regular basis. Especially Dec. - June when I'm settling our own plans. It's a very busy time. I'm in agreement with you that the DC allows me the flexibility to decide and change my mind.

Not meaning any offense at all, I don't come to TUG looking for conflict, but I have friends who gladly take advantage of the MVC DC through my Chairman level. They either aren't in a position to invest in the smallest point package or they have no desire. Trust me, I know how much work I do to get their reservation and I know they didn't have to do much more than work out some details. Simplicity for them.

They aren't the type who make and break reservations over and over. That's for me and you. They're more the type who decide on a destination and like a very nice room to occupy.

 

[JIMinNC]

I have friends who gladly take advantage of the MVC DC through my Chairman level. They either aren't in a position to invest in the smallest point package or they have no desire. Trust me, I know how much work I do to get their reservation and I know they didn't have to do much more than work out some details. Simplicity for them.

They aren't the type who make and break reservations over and over. That's for me and you. They're more the type who decide on a destination and like a very nice room to occupy.

That's certainly a win-win - for your friends and for you.

 

[Quilter]

Fasttr, thank you for explaining Parking Points.

DavidVel, you are correct that my points do not go unused or are allowed to expire.

Quilter, you are right that having a trusted Chairmans Club person who is willing to make reservations for you allows you to leverage their status with no personal investment. I've made reservations using my CC for several TUGgers for exactly that reason - but they were all people I knew. I don't think that works for the person who is hoping to avoid the timeshare ownership conundrum.

Jason, has insuring your vacations been your standard approach and how much was the premium? Have you needed to submit claims and how easy was it to get paid?

Thank you.

Greg

Greg I brought this up in this thread because Golden began by saying (and I paraphrase) he didn't have time to fuss with the complications of renting or trading with a resale week. I hope I understood that correctly.

As Jim so clearly points out with his own pattern of reservations and Fasttr's explanation of "parking points" it should be apparent to Golden that working the MVC DC will take a considerable amount of time.

I've made reservations for friends. Just tonight I worked with a couple sisters who have been to one of the MVC properties and want to return for a family gathering.

 

[Quilter]

Guess who has an appointment tomorrow morning for a sales presentation? One guess.

Along with making and cancelling reservations I've been transferring points from Amex to spg to MR for a travel package with Southwest miles. All to get the Southwest companion pass. I consider this time all part of the MVC ownership.

While this is going on we talked to our DD who would like to take her husband on a trip to Scotland or France. Now I'd like more points just in case she wants me to reserve 3 nights at the Trump Tumberry hotel. http://www.trumpturnberry.com

Sure I could buy points at MR or spg rack rates but why do that when I can get 25K for 90 minutes (give or take)?

I'm too cheap for rack rates. Same with the flights. I'm trying to work the miles to get them there. Miles I've gotten through travel packages or UR points.

I consider all the time invested in this as part of the MVC ownership. If they do go, and they do have a lovely time. . .well worth the investment.

 

[Fasttr]

Just a word of caution for those this may apply to.... I would tame down the continual touting of your using the DC as a business venture, as the Exchange docs quoted below prohibit it. Just sayin.....

MVC does have the ability to cancel reservations based on the info below, so there is risk, both to you and the renter.

Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits, and Use Periods may not be used for any commercial purpose. This prohibition on commercial use includes, but is not limited to, any illegal activity or a pattern of occupancy, rental, leasing, or use by a Program Member that Exchange Company, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice. In the event a Program Member is determined to be reserving or using the Accommodations, Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, Special Benefits or Use Periods for any commercial purpose Exchange Company may immediately cancel any current reservation(s) made by such Program Member and may impose such additional penalties or restrictions as determined by Exchange Company, in its sole discretion, from time to time.

 

[davidvel]

I would tame down the continual touting of your using the DC as a business venture, as the Exchange docs quoted below prohibit it. Just sayin.....

Well that's true, but the underlying governing docs also prohibit the use of weeks as a business venture, but MVCI seems do be doing just fine at that with its DC Trust and program.

 

[Marathoner]

This thread has been very interesting. I own a legacy enrolled Marriott week which I bought the developer. I have received good value from my week and like the Marriott system but I would never buy into DC trust points. However, the aggregate dollar value of my other timeshare purchases would have been enough to qualify for the Chairman level if I had only purchased Marriott. So, it isn't just about the money. Bottom line is that similar to what others have stated, we all have different priorities and different family demands. As a result, Marriott DC points is right for some and not right for others. The important thing is to know what your family requires and what financial amounts you feel comfortable spending. If you know this, then you can determine what type of vacationing experience is right for you - whether renting, weeks, points, Marriott or non-Marriott.

 

[JIMinNC]

Well that's true, but the underlying governing docs also prohibit the use of weeks as a business venture, but MVCI seems do be doing just fine at that with its DC Trust and program.

But, I believe the docs give MVC, as program manager, the right to rent and otherwise use intervals not occupied by owners, and to do that for profit (while still preventing owners from doing the same). So since MVC is the manager of the DC Trust and related entities, why would there be an issue with the Trust violating the no commercial activity prohibition?

 

[bazzap]

There is no MVC definition of business venture, as far as I know though.
Many owners rent on a regular basis and sometimes multiple weeks.
This was actually sold by MVC originally as a benefit for multiple weeks owners to perhaps rent out some of their weeks to help pay the Maintenance fees.
I believe MVC 's interpretation might relate specifically to those owners who have bought many weeks, never stay themselves and always rent out.

 

[SueDonJ]

A "commercial activity" prohibition has always been in the Marriott governing docs but I've never known them to enforce it. Regardless, the possibility that they can is something that should be considered by anyone who's looking to offset ownership costs by renting out owned Weeks or Points.

Several years ago Disney enacted a policy that restricts the annual number of owners' reservations to which a guest name can be added. Recently Vistana (Starwood) implemented fees for adding guest names to certain reservations. Other timeshare companies also have similar restrictions/fee structures, and of course the exchange companies all prohibit rentals of exchange reservations. I think eventually we'll see something from MVW that will negatively impact rental activity, not because they don't want owners doing it but because it will add to their bottom line.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

It's just a preemptive countermeasure to prevent someone from doing something undesirable in the future.

 

[Quilter]

Not to change the topic . . .

Went to our sales presentation and have to say we enjoyed our time. Salesman was pleasantly personable. Went through different aspects of ownership including MR points, minimum DC points and hybrid packages with favorable MF's. Informative with a 25k bonus.

 

[BocaBoy]

A "commercial activity" prohibition has always been in the Marriott governing docs but I've never known them to enforce it. Regardless, the possibility that they can is something that should be considered by anyone who's looking to offset ownership costs by renting out owned Weeks or Points.

For weeks owners, this can only be interpreted to prohibit the "business" of owning many weeks, never staying in them or depositing them for trade, etc. It cannot be interpreted to prohibit the normal "rental" activities described by all but a couple of people on TUG. Marriott even has a rental program to help you rent your weeks and it was always listed in the MVCI materials as one of four or five options for how to use your week (stay, trade, rent, or exchange for MR points, and now exchange for DC points if enrolled).

I am not sure how the language reads with respect to DC points, because that was never of particular interest to me.

 

[BocaBoy]

Not meaning any offense at all, I don't come to TUG looking for conflict, but I have friends who gladly take advantage of the MVC DC through my Chairman level. They either aren't in a position to invest in the smallest point package or they have no desire. Trust me, I know how much work I do to get their reservation and I know they didn't have to do much more than work out some details. Simplicity for them.

I don't think any of us who have questioned the value of relying on being able to rent reservations would question its desirability if it is from someone you know pretty well. I would not hesitate to rent a week from such a person, or even a "TUG friend", but that really does not work for most people who own timeshares because they do not typically have such contacts..

 

[echino]

I read about 7 pages of this thread and gave up. Here is my thought on this:

What a waste of money!

What you bought is a liability. You are now stuck.

Those who value true flexibility just book vacations where and when they want. Rent from owners. Or just book a hotel directly, or use a travel agent if averse to renting from owners. Instead, you are now tied to a system and extremely limited in your options and timing, while paying some crazy money.

Sorry for harsh words. There is no merit to your purchase whatsoever - financial or any other.

 

[BocaBoy]

Along with making and cancelling reservations I've been transferring points from Amex to spg to MR for a travel package with Southwest miles. All to get the Southwest companion pass. I consider this time all part of the MVC ownership.

While this is going on we talked to our DD who would like to take her husband on a trip to Scotland or France. Now I'd like more points just in case she wants me to reserve 3 nights at the Trump Tumberry hotel. http://www.trumpturnberry.com

Sure I could buy points at MR or spg rack rates but why do that when I can get 25K for 90 minutes (give or take)?

I'm too cheap for rack rates. Same with the flights. I'm trying to work the miles to get them there. Miles I've gotten through travel packages or UR points.

I consider all the time invested in this as part of the MVC ownership. If they do go, and they do have a lovely time. . .well worth the investment.

The effect is the same and I also spend a lot of time working the MR system, but it is interesting that I never have considered it to be part of my MVCI ownership. I consider the effort to be part of maximizing the value of my hotel loyalty program, which frankly has produced even more value and memories over the years than my timeshare ownership (which has also produced a lot). It is why I first bought at Sabal Palms, although exchanging for MR points is no longer a good option with some exceptions.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

I read about 7 pages of this thread and gave up. Here is my thought on this:

What a waste of money!

What you bought is a liability. You are now stuck.

Those who value true flexibility just book vacations where and when they want. Rent from owners. Or just book a hotel directly, or use a travel agent if averse to renting from owners. Instead, you are now tied to a system and extremely limited in your options and timing, while paying some crazy money.

Sorry for harsh words. There is no merit to your purchase whatsoever - financial or any other.

+1
Buying a TS is buying an ever increasing liability called maintenance fees. We are former owners of a platinum HHI week and we saw and heard a freight train coming called maintenance fees.. We sold to get out of the path and it hasn't slowed down yet.
I'm also really thankful we got out before this point based destination club came along. Seems like an ever bigger boondoggle. The 4000 point package described here had an upfront cost of $40,000 but the points would be insufficient to get desirable weeks at peak times. It wouldn't be enough points to get our old week at our former resort at our peak timeframe.
Then to pay a $2200 yearly maintenance every single year.
Then to deal with constantly changing rules and policies.
I cannot fathom.

My advice to newbies considering this purchase is to go directly to a financial advisor. Also run it by your parents, coworkers and friends and let them tell you what they think. Be prepared for what you will hear.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I read about 7 pages of this thread and gave up. Here is my thought on this:

What a waste of money!

What you bought is a liability. You are now stuck.

Those who value true flexibility just book vacations where and when they want. Rent from owners. Or just book a hotel directly, or use a travel agent if averse to renting from owners. Instead, you are now tied to a system and extremely limited in your options and timing, while paying some crazy money.

Sorry for harsh words. There is no merit to your purchase whatsoever - financial or any other.

Some of the concepts in this thread can be difficult to grasp. The only way you can come to your blanket conclusion is to either ignore many of the issues discussed or not understand them.

It's called the Timeshare User Group. It is not called "Timeshares have no value whatsoever and ownership should never be considered". You didn't even suggest resale as an option so this really isn't the right place for the "never timeshare" argument.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

+1
Buying a TS is buying an ever increasing liability called maintenance fees. We are former owners of a platinum HHI week and we saw and heard a freight train coming called maintenance fees.. We sold to get out of the path and it hasn't slowed down yet.
I'm also really thankful we got out before this point based destination club came along. Seems like an ever bigger boondoggle. The 4000 point package described here had an upfront cost of $40,000 but the points would be insufficient to get desirable weeks at peak times. It wouldn't be enough points to get our old week at our former resort at our peak timeframe.
Then to pay a $2200 yearly maintenance every single year.
Then to deal with constantly changing rules and policies.
I cannot fathom.

My advice to newbies considering this purchase is to go directly to a financial advisor. Also run it by your parents, coworkers and friends and let them tell you what they think. Be prepared for what you will hear.

1) while much of this thread was about debating and refining the financial aspects of TS, i think that everyone on here is on the same page that nobody should buy a TS purely for financial reasons. It's a luxury purchase like a nice car or boat or vacation home. None of those are good financial investments, and if you can't afford a boat or lake home or German car, then I'd agree that you shouldn't buy a TS.
2) the original deal you reference was rescinded and replaced with a different package with significantly better financials on both an upfront basis and on a continual MF basis.

 

[Jason245]

1) while much of this thread was about debating and refining the financial aspects of TS, i think that everyone on here is on the same page that nobody should buy a TS purely for financial reasons. It's a luxury purchase like a nice car or boat or vacation home. None of those are good financial investments, and if you can't afford a boat or lake home or German car, then I'd agree that you shouldn't buy a TS.
2) the original deal you reference was rescinded and replaced with a different package with significantly better financials on both an upfront basis and on a continual MF basis.

So what was the final deal? I missed that post.

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