[2017] Just Joined Marriott Vacation Club - Was it a good choice?

[Jason245]

About "villas". This is our villa - real one, not the "villa" in timeshare speak. With private pool etc. It's on Lombok in October 2016. Traveled there in JAL first class with my wife by using AA miles acquired for ~$0.01 each. Relaxed at the villa after climbing Rinjani. Fabulous beach and food. Paid about ~$100 per night. You cannot get it with a timeshare. If I owned a timeshare, I would never get to experience it.

View attachment 3334

A penny a point. Ouch. I try not to pay more than half a penny a point..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Saintsfanfl]

This is simply not true, unless you happen to own too many timeshare weeks or points. Just because you own something in a timeshare system doesn't prevent you from taking cruises, other trips involving hotel stays, or whatever. If you get four weeks of vacation per year and only have enough timeshare ownership for one or two weeks, you still have two other weeks you can use for other kinds of travel, staycations, etc.



I've canceled four timeshare bookings in the last three years. I've not lost anything. The points were redeposited in my account and I used 100% of them to book other trips. Some of the points were canceled and redeposited more than once.



Again, why would I never get to experience this if I owned a timeshare? I have the option to book it with cash just as you did. I bet almost everyone on TUG takes timeshare vacations and non-timeshare vacations.

If you can book two tickets on that flight for less than $500 I commend you.

 

[Marathoner]

If you can book two tickets on that flight for less than $500 I commend you.

That is the amount that he paid in taxes for two business/first class tickets that he used miles to book.

I do think that echino has a point in that many probably have narrowed their vacation destination constrained by their timeshare ownership. On the other hand, if you enjoy your destination, it doesn't really matter whether it is booked on Airbnb in Kyoto or through DC points at Lakeshore Reserve in Orlando.

 

[jme]

Ditto, ditto, ditto BocaBoy, in your response to echino 3 posts above.

...... and per those hotel stays mentioned by echino, Rewards Points gained simply by credit card use for purchases, bonuses, etc., allow my family to stay for highly reduced prices or outright FREE stays quite often, plus airfare if needed.

As for vacations at the timeshare resorts of our choice, for example, if we own two weeks, we could rent one out and use that for paying both maintenance fees (plus some left over) leaving a free week at our world-class resort. FREE. Since we own high season at a great resort, we long ago met our break-even point, and now (even if we don't rent another one out) we enjoy weeks for merely the maintenance fee (which is both a reality and a necessity), and which also happens to be less than half of what we would have to pay to stay there if renting from someone else, or instead renting at a comparable hotel or resort (I surely don't like paying THAT fee).

So contrary to echino's conclusion, THAT rack rate he prefers is the fee that "sounds like the freight train", with all due respect. Maintenance fees indeed keep rising, some feel too much too fast as I do, but the fact remains that it's still far less than what we would choose to pay anyway, because WE ARE going on a nice vacation regardless. I consider myself to have a lot of freedom in our choices, rather than being locked-in as echino says, because I have many ways to change, adjust, or tweak when and where we go. And frankly, it allows that at a lower price. There are no "bargain" prices for the places we go, apart from ownership, and I don't wish to LOCK MYSELF IN to a discount hotel or resort just to save money. We want quality. And it is an undeniable fact that we pay less for that kind of experience today than if we followed his advice "outside our chosen system".

Timeshare is merely a pre-payment for future vacations, but if done wisely, it can provide decades of fantastic trips at greatly reduced prices. After 20 years, I know. Echino, don't think for one minute that all these TUG members are financial idiots. We are not. There are plenty of bean counters and number crunchers "alive and well" on this board. And many have spent their lives in finance as a career, and a great majority loudly tout the timeshare system (particularly Marriott), and benefit from it in their own families. I know a few. Do you truly think they got fooled and still don't realize it? or that they are in denial? Not likely......if so, they would have been astute enough to abandon this timeshare thing long ago. But it simply doesn't pan out as you seem to think. Maybe YOU haven't seen the right numbers. There are different ways to do things, different strokes for different folks, but the timeshare way isn't a fool's endeavor if done the right way.

Take this bottom line approach: if echino and I both go to Marriott Grande Ocean next June, echino will pay around $3000 to rent the same unit that I'll get for the exorbitant maintenance fee of $1400 (is that fee something to equate to a freight train? If so, I like trains). Not to mention I bought a couple of my weeks resale and saved a lot, so I'm pretty satisfied about that.
I'll get my money back on those 100%, AFTER years of usage.

Contrary to what many might think, we do actually travel to places other than Marriott destinations.
(News Flash: My favorite resort isn't even a Marriott!!)
We often use other resort systems and/or hotels while gladly paying their higher prices, but we also do our homework there as much as possible, but frankly THOSE places have less potential to be obtained at a discount. But those trips are much fewer in number than the timeshare "bargains" we enjoy today because of our long participation and our buying smart initially.

Echino's perception, experience, or "whatever" regarding timeshare ownership and its "inherent evil and negativity" sound like pure hyperbole at best, and even more like a lack of real personal knowledge about how things actually work based on real experience. (I said "sounds like it". Could be a total disenchantment with what he got himself into, I don't know.) But as a blanket assessment, his statements are simply not true, so I can't decide if he actually owned something or not-----or if he only heard someone else relate their bad experience. I think he should continue to do what he does, but stick around here and listen for a while. There's much to be learned. (If he's been around here since 2008 like it says, I'm at a loss.)

Not everyone here has the same needs or preferences. Read just a little and that becomes obvious.
IMHO, the advice here is not a simple "do it", but rather "this (or this or this) might be the best way to do it". Big difference.

 

[echino]

No, I have never owned a timeshare. I have been on this forum for about 10 years and still keep an open mind about timesharing and trying to learn as much as possible. I like the miles and points game and consider myself "a pro" of sorts in this, and I am looking at timeshares from the same "game the system" angle, and not seeing much opportunity here. I am considering buying a timeshare to use. A fixed holiday week at a place I know I will be traveling every year. No exchange shenanigans please. Then there is value to be had, in very limited circumstances. I have still not found one that would work for me.

I am going to Hawaii again in a couple of weeks with the whole family for the kids school spring break for two weeks. Rented a Hilton Hawaiian Village Lagoon Tower 2br from TUG marketplace, and Marriott Ko Olina 2br from eBay. Paid close to maintenance fees for both. No ongoing obligations of owning.

 

[jme]

No, I have never owned a timeshare. I have been on this forum for about 10 years and still keep an open mind about timesharing and trying to learn as much as possible. I like the miles and points game and consider myself "a pro" of sorts in this, and I am looking at timeshares from the same "game the system" angle, and not seeing much opportunity here. I am considering buying a timeshare to use. A fixed holiday week at a place I know I will be traveling every year. No exchange shenanigans please. Then there is value to be had, in very limited circumstances. I have still not found one that would work for me.

I am going to Hawaii again in a couple of weeks with the whole family for the kids school spring break for two weeks. Rented a Hilton Hawaiian Village Lagoon Tower 2br from TUG marketplace, and Marriott Ko Olina 2br from eBay. Paid close to maintenance fees for both. No ongoing obligations of owning.

I understand your points, and you've done OK on your acquisitions, but I would still argue this:
Fact remains that high season (when many prefer to go, or will only go) in a highly prized resort destination CANNOT be had "for a maintenance fee" on a consistent basis, and for us, we go consistently, so the "maybe sometimes" won't fly.

Example again, you will NEVER get an oceanfront villa at Grande Ocean Hilton Head in summer for $1400...never. So if that's what somebody wants, they must abandon that. Or try Aruba over New Year's Eve. Over $4400 a week rental, some as high as $7000 a week. Or ski weeks in Park City Utah for thousands a week, not a dime less. Might as well dismiss that thought too. So what I'm talking about is highest quality time at highest quality resort, with no compromises. Seems you might accept compromises in time or place. I don't particularly look to do that with my family because "they want what they want". Hawaii is so saturated that deals pop up somewhat more frequently than other destinations, similar to Orlando.

Speaking of ownership and advantages, I split a lock-off last year and traded a studio in Williamsburg, VA for a 1BR villa (full kitchen, LR, etc) at Marriott's Maui Ocean Club for my daughter & husband. That cost me zero fees to trade (other than the initial split fee), and my actual cost was half a maintenance fee. The remaining split-off 1BR at Williamsburg (also traded in) got me a 2BR villa at Hilton Head's Grande Ocean in August (platinum time). Benefit of ownership, otherwise not doable.

 

[GaryDouglas]

They could buy it resale on eBay or Craigslist though and save lots of money. Just like timeshares.

If they want all the latest technology (Large OLED Television, all UHD/4K devices in the delivery chain, such as the streaming devices, home theater receiver, media server and UHD Bluray player) then you'll have to wait a year or two for them to start to appear on the secondary market or be very lucky at an estate sale.

After my heart attack, I had a different take on waiting...

 

[echino]

Ritz-Carlton Clubs don't meet your definition of luxury?

I looked it up, so am I reading it wrong, or is it just five locations?
http://www.ritzcarltonclub.com/explore-destinations/ritz-carlton-club.shtml

There is also RC Residences, is it the same thing, can you book it with your points? For example, I am going to Oahu in March with the family, and I needed to book accommodations about a month before travel. I rented with no problem. If I had purchased the same package as you, what could I book on Oahu for one or two weeks in March? Please look at real availability, not theoretical. I would guess nothing is available one month before travel, but who knows. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[echino]

Echino, can you break down the location? Is this Westin Kaanapali? I once walked that resort to see where a friend stayed, owner rental. We stayed once at the Westin hotel and once at Sheraton Kaanapali, both with Pleasant Hawaiian Holiday packages. This travel company has unbeatable pricing, sometimes lodging and a car for not much more than airfare.
We've had great owner rentals in Hawaii on several islands, Marriott and non Marriott. Especially wonderful options on Kauai.

This is Westin Kaanapali Ocean Resort Villas North. It is in different location from Westin Hotel. We went with a large family and needed space, so a timeshare was a good match for us. It was a New Year week. Rented from owner on craigslist for $2,500, which I think was less than maintenance fees.

I know I cannot consistently and reliably rent holiday weeks close to maintenance fees, but I don't need to. There are other options than just staying at a timeshare.

 

[davidvel]

But, I believe the docs give MVC, as program manager, the right to rent and otherwise use intervals not occupied by owners, and to do that for profit (while still preventing owners from doing the same). So since MVC is the manager of the DC Trust and related entities, why would there be an issue with the Trust violating the no commercial activity prohibition?

Quick post here, as I'm sidetracked on a busy business commitment, but I don't think the DC trust qualifies as the developer/declrant which he exemptions apply to. But I will follow up.

 

[BocaBoy]

Marriott is not in the same league as true luxury accommodations, like Aman, MO, or even FS. I would say Marriott is about 4* on average. They may call themselves luxury, sure, but they are not. It's about the same when they call their timeshare units "villas".

Regarding increased flexibility when you own a timeshare. In real life most people have limited vacation time. If you own a timeshare, you will plan your vacation around your timeshare ownership. You are paying maintenance fees for it. So in practice owning a timeshare eliminates any vacations not involving your timeshare. You get tied to it, and lose out on a huge world that is outside of the system.

Most people would not so severely limit the definition of luxury in the way you do. More importantly, you do not seem to understand how timeshares can add great FLEXIBILITY to your vacations, nor do you want to hear how many of us have found that to be true. Although you have never owned a timeshare, your posts indicate a belief that you know more about how a timeshare can (or cannot) be used than some very experienced owners here. If you don't like the facts, just make up your own I guess.

 

[bazzap]

I am finding it increasingly difficult to understand why those who have never owned a timeshare, have no desire to own a timeshare and see absolutely no merit in owning a timeshare spend so much time posting these views on this Timeshare "User" Group forum.
It is not as if the many owners and regulars in the group are not very open and honest in sharing both the negative and positive aspects of timeshare ownership to the benefit of those potentially seeking to buy to help them make informed judgements.
So what is the objective?

 

[Saintsfanfl]

To me it's a combination of trolling and "my way is the only way".

I will add that echino doesn't want to plan ahead and looks for deals with shorter notice. Since he doesn't want to exchange, a fixed week is his only viable option. Timesharing is clearly not for him.

So you have someone at one extreme, no planning 1 year out, willing to rent from an owner (but not an exchange), thinking their methods must apply to everyone. The OP is potentially on the other end of the spectrum. Why should the OP be forced to play the last minute discount game and rent from owners? Many of us have absolutely no interest in that but we respect that it might be a good fit for someone like echino.

 

[GoldenVIKE]

We will book most of our trips around a year in advance because we'll be traveling with 2 kids and likely bring another family or a set of the kids' grandparents along, and we'll probably be going peak season or even ultra-peak times a good amount of time. We're consciously and happily paying a premium in order to have the ability to do that, and understand it'll take some planning; but also appreciate that once it's booked, we don't have to worry about anything going wrong because we booked it direct and can even cancel or change it if we absolutely need to.

Echino, everyone agrees that you can save all kinds of money being flexible and renting from other owners, snatching up last minute deals, etc, as you describe. That's covered pretty thoroughly here, but just doesn't fit what we're looking for. If it was just the two of us traveling then we wouldn't be buying TS. We've done Home Away etc and know enough about that process that we don't want to deal with that when traveling with a group of 6-8 people.

Forgive me, but the summary of your contribution on here seems to be, "You're all idiots for owning TS, look at how good I am at this, my resorts are nicer than your resorts, and BTW i don't own a timeshare but am considering buying one." Whaat?

 

[GregT]

What's more, it also makes no sense from non-financial standpoint.

Yes it does -- it makes perfect sense, most especially from a non-financial standpoint. You may not like the arcane rules, but the OP bought a package that lets him maximize the arcane rules at a large and growing portfolio of high quality timeshare properties.

He has a growing family and is well positioned to choose beach/ski/golf/urban vacation options for years to come and I believe he will have priceless family memories from this ownership. I would bet that over the next 10 years, he further increases his timeshare holdings and has no regrets, versus viewing it as a mistake and being bitter about the decision. I'll bet you an all-expense paid trip to Maui in 2027 (staying in a timeshare of course) .

I had the utter freedom you described in an earlier post until I purchased my first timeshare in 2005, and my vacation experience since that 2005 purchase is far superior, with timeshares being a major part of that improvement. I've taken 78 vacations since 2005, 60 in timeshares. The 18 non-timeshares were Disney cruises, Tuscan villas, and various VRBO homes in great locations and were terrific too -- there is a role for everything, but timeshares have been the key to my vacation experience.

The vast majority of my timeshare vacations were personally owned properties/systems at great locations -- Maui, Oahu, Kauai, Big Island, Bahamas, St. Thomas, Aruba, Hilton Head, Big Bear, Las Vegas, Orlando, and Palm Desert. Many return trips to these locations too -- and I know I will be going back to my favorite places.

So my system is working for me -- and your system is working for you. Good for both of us. But I think you swing too wide in not recognizing the incredible value that can come from timeshare ownership.

Best,

Greg

 

[AlmostRetired]

This is an interesting thread with some twists and turns along the way. In terms of loss of freedom I disagree, I do not believe you have any if you vacation the way you want. To analysis this financially you need a crystal ball and if I had one I would not waste it on my timeshare. Also, you should only be spending discretionary money.

In 1993 I stayed at a hotel on the beach in Palmetto Dunes and it cost me about 1000. I remember this because the following year I rented a unit at the Monarch and paid 1200. The 200 difference for a 2 bedroom that my kids could be in another room.... a dream come true. In 1995 I purchased a Monarch resale from Marriott for 12,000. The reasons, I enjoyed HHI, 2 bedroom instead of hotel room, the option of getting 130,000 MRP every year, trading into the II system to go elsewhere and finally it forced me to think about family vacations every year. This was the extent of my analysis. If someone told me in 1995 that my MF would increase from 420 to 1420 in 2017, trading for MR points would become nearly a valueless benefit, II exchanges would become more difficult, the resale value of my timeshare might go to zero and occasionally life will get in the way, I would never have purchased. I am glad no one did because it would have been the wrong decision. The one benefit I didn't account for (family memories aside) so maybe it was dumb luck, was the ability to rent my unit. This provided a constant link from the changing landscape of timeshares to the world outside of timeshares.

A look at the numbers
My MF's over my 23 years of ownership were about 19,000 or about 825 per year. This is still less than I paid for the hotel room in 1993. If you spread the 12,000 over 23 years that has you at 1350 per year. Still a bargain to me and not much more than I paid in rent in 1994. In 1995, the rental was 1200 through an agent so lets assume the agent got 25% so the owners got 900. I own an ocean front unit that i rented for 2700 in 2017. This has almost kept pace with my MF increase. The 2700 will get me 4 weeks at Airbnb's in various cities in Italy (I am looking at this for the summer) or a week at a 4 star inclusive hotel in Punta Cana (looking at for April).

In 2001, I used MR for a travel package of 4 round trip tickets anywhere in the world, 2 weeks at a hotel and a 1 week car rental. We did a three week vacation visiting London, Paris, Madrid and Malaga mostly funded by timeshare MR points. Last year I traded for a 7 days package when AA was giving the 25% bonus. It got me to 2 Rt tickets nonstop to Barcelona and 7 nights at the Cotton House. This year I did the Travel Package for Southwest miles with a Companion Ticket. Some of this was from my last trade for MR points in 2005, some of it was from gong to timeshare presentations (just got 50K for a local LI presentation) and some of it was from my relationship formed with Marriott since 1995. BTW, If we go to Punta Cana I will be using Southwest. We have done cruises to Alaska, Bermuda and the Caribbean all funded in part by the rental of my unit. I can't speak for anyone else, but the benefits I got from owning a timeshare was worth it on many fronts, including financially. I do not believe I lost any freedom from owning a timeshare.


For anyone that thinks the money might have been better served invested elsewhere.... I had investments in both MCI and Lehman Brothers both solid companies and safe investment when I invested so maybe or maybe not. Good and bad decisions are only determined over time and looking backwards.

 

[BocaBoy]

Echino,.......Forgive me, but the summary of your contribution on here seems to be, "You're all idiots for owning TS, look at how good I am at this, my resorts are nicer than your resorts, and BTW i don't own a timeshare but am considering buying one." Whaat?

This is one of the best lines in this whole thread. Perfectly said and it does really capture Echino's whole argument in one sentence.

 

[echino]

No guys, you are not idiots, you are using your timeshares to get fantastic vacations which you probably would not get otherwise. However, the problem is that do the analysis from a standpoint of someone who already owns a timeshare. Rescission period is over (if you bought from developer), and the deal is already done, the money you paid is water under the bridge. Now you learn how to get the best out of what you own. People don't like to admit their mistakes. People hate when someone tells them they got a bad deal. They get defensive. Sorry guys, but the OP got a terrible deal. That's a very unpleasant truth to accept, so he is not likely accept it, and continue to be in denial. It's too late now to get out, so he has to learn how to make the most out of it. And no doubt about it - OP will get fantastic vacations from his new ownership.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Echino I don't think you know enough about what the deal means in order to conclude that it's terrible. You saw the cash outlay and you jumped to the end and started posting your opinions. You admitted you couldn't get through the thread. You are not a timeshare expert and certainly not remotely knowledgeable on the merits of the Marriott system. How would you know a good deal from a bad one? You seem to think they are all bad deals.

I was fortunate to be directed to Redweek before my first timeshare purchase and then I found tug shortly after. I have bought a humorous number of timeshares on the resale market, 2/3 of them are Marriott. I certainly don't regret buying them (bought four this morning). I think the OP got a pretty good deal.

Points aren't for me only because I cannot afford them. I stick to bargain deals that are usually shoulder season and driving distance. Sometimes I get lucky with exchanges. I make enough on rentals and resales on the side to pay for everything. My vacations cost me zero. I am a big MVCI fan so if I could afford it I would do something similar to the OP and forget all the stuff I do to get free shoulder season vacations.

 

[bazzap]

No guys, you are not idiots, you are using your timeshares to get fantastic vacations which you probably would not get otherwise. However, the problem is that do the analysis from a standpoint of someone who already owns a timeshare. Rescission period is over (if you bought from developer), and the deal is already done, the money you paid is water under the bridge. Now you learn how to get the best out of what you own. People don't like to admit their mistakes. People hate when someone tells them they got a bad deal. They get defensive. Sorry guys, but the OP got a terrible deal. That's a very unpleasant truth to accept, so he is not likely accept it, and continue to be in denial. It's too late now to get out, so he has to learn how to make the most out of it. And no doubt about it - OP will get fantastic vacations from his new ownership.

Wrong - for me anyway and quite possibly for many of us here.
We purchased with discretionary spend many years ago.
We have never regretted our purchases.
If we were to turn back time, we would purchase again.
We take plenty of other, very diverse holiday trips too so we don't feel constrained by our ownership.
Would we rather pay lower Maintenance fees? Yes of course we would.
Do we still value what we get with our ownership compared to other options? Absolutely, more than you could possibly imagine.

 

[BocaBoy]

Given the OP's goals, I think he got a very good deal and I doubt that he will ever regret it. And I for one look forward to his participation here on TUG long into the future.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

Echino I looked back at your posts. I didn't realize that you tried hard to buy a timeshare. You even placed ebay bids. It appears you were bent on getting much lower than market price and then some. Over two years inquiring and trying but no purchase. Did you eventually get frustrated and give up or did you realize that renting from owners is more your cup of tea?

 

[echino]

Echino I looked back at your posts. I didn't realize that you tried hard to buy a timeshare. You even placed ebay bids. It appears you were bent on getting much lower than market price and then some. Over two years inquiring and trying but no purchase. Did you eventually get frustrated and give up or did you realize that renting from owners is more your cup of tea?

I had very good experience with renting from owners.

I have not been looking actively to buy a timeshare for several years, maybe I should take a closer look at what is available now. I am looking for a 2br fixed week 52 in Whistler since I know I would use it every year and no flights are involved. The couple I have seen for sale were so expensive up front, and with so high maintenance fees, that it was consistently cheaper to rent. I may also consider a spring break fixed week there, but also only if the price and MF is right. I have not found what I am looking for. Anything else that is available does not make financial sense to me.

When analyzing a financial aspect of buying a timeshare, I do not compare prices on marriott.com etc to what it would cost me all in if I buy a timeshare. Why? Because I do not usually go to marriott.com and pay those prices to book vacations. Therefore I cannot say that I can "save" anything compared to those prices if I buy a timeshare. Saving for me means I used to pay a high price for something, and then started paying less for the same thing. Which is not happening here. Instead, I compare the price I actually pay for vacations (by renting from owners, airbnb, hotels, OTAs, etc) with the all-in price I would pay for a comparable accommodation if I buy a timeshare. The comparison has never worked in favor of timeshare ownership in my situation.

 

[Hi I'm new here]

I'm still hoping the OP is really not a buyer. In any event it is a terrible deal. I'm on the other side of the TS debate having previously owned one. I truly feel my experience gives me perspective.
I understand current owners defending the product because I was once in their shoes.
Anyone contemplating a purchase should go beyond reading a message board. Please consult a financial advisor and discuss with trusted family and friends before you commit.

 

[JIMinNC]

When analyzing a financial aspect of buying a timeshare, I do not compare prices on marriott.com etc to what it would cost me all in if I buy a timeshare. Why? Because I do not usually go to marriott.com and pay those prices to book vacations. Therefore I cannot say that I can "save" anything compared to those prices if I buy a timeshare. Saving for me means I used to pay a high price for something, and then started paying less for the same thing. Which is not happening here. Instead, I compare the price I actually pay for vacations (by renting from owners, airbnb, hotels, OTAs, etc) with the all-in price I would pay for a comparable accommodation if I buy a timeshare. The comparison has never worked in favor of timeshare ownership in my situation.

You've just made a great case for why you should rent from owners instead of buying. You are comparing ownership with the way you book vacations, and since you rent from owners, timeshare doesn't look very attractive. Every time I've done a similar comparison, I come to the same conclusion.

On the other hand, some of the rest of us DON'T rent from owners, and probably never will. For us, online sites like marriott.com are the way we book. So for us, it actually does make sense to compare against that metric for the same reason it doesn't make sense for you. We are comparing timeshares to the way we book vacations. While in actual practice, we probably wouldn't pay $500/night to book a Marriott Vacation Club timeshare on marriott.com, we would probably book a hotel of some kind for a cheaper rate. But timeshare allows us to have larger better accommodations without paying the high prices it takes to rent an MVC timeshare on somewhere like marriott.com.

I have no issue with someone saying what you said in the quote above that timeshare doesn't make sense for them because of a reason like you gave. What I do have an issue with is blanket statements that say "Timeshares are a bad deal. Period" without regard for the fact that for some people it does make sense.