Lowballers

[ace2000]

Are you sayin Ride's a wannabe lowballer???

 

[BocaBum99]

I didn't read the whole thread, but...you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger pool of cheapskates than we TUGgers. And, yes, I resemble that remark.

I'd have to agree that TUG is full of cheap skates. Nothing wrong with that.

I truly admire a good negotiator. I just laugh at people who think they are smart by trying to low ball and offering a price so low so as to not get a response. The key to great negotiating is putting something on the table close to the lowest acceptable rate someone will take. That will illicit a response or counter. I admire that approach because it leads to transactions. The other way just wastes everyone's time.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I'd have to agree that TUG is full of cheap skates. Nothing wrong with that.

I truly admire a good negotiator. I just laugh at people who think they are smart by trying to low ball and offering a price so low so as to not get a response. The key to great negotiating is putting something on the table close to the lowest acceptable rate someone will take. That will illicit a response or counter. I admire that approach because it leads to transactions. The other way just wastes everyone's time.

Boca is a wise man who understands that a reading the menu while standing outside the diner is different than being inside, being seat at a table, reading the menu, asking about how things are cooked and THEN stating that price is too high as they could cook the same at home for 15 cents on the dollar then leaving the diner with offended at the waitstaff.

 

[Davidr]

Lowball offers happen all the time. If people did any research on my pricing they would know they are wasting their time. Furthermore, after a lowball offer comes in I counter with a higher than normal amount. I figure I will not make the sale anyways and if I do I may as well get more for it.

It costs me $99 to add a guest name to a reservation so I am not going to take anywhere close to that for any reservation.

I probably have more nights sit empty then most Tuggers even rent. But I am okay with that. A 100% rental rate is not the most profitable.

I don't understand why you would rather let a week go empty instead of getting any money back? If its a week or 2 before check in and no one else is interested in renting, even $20 in your pocket is better than $0 isn't it? I don't understand? How much of your time does it take to process a weeks rental?

 

[vacationhopeful]

I don't understand why you would rather let a week go empty instead of getting any money back? If its a week or 2 before check in and no one else is interested in renting, even $20 in your pocket is better than $0 isn't it? I don't understand? How much of your time does it take to process a weeks rental?

I have collect MORE money in cash at the resorts than you must ever have thought possible. One Saturday, it was over $3,500. All last minute bookings. With paypal and internet on the phone, you don't even have to be there to do this now.

I was contacted yesterday by a lady who needs a unit starting tomorrow night for 7 nights. She wanted a bigger unit and poo-pah my smaller unit (which would have fit her needs). There is nothing open and she is currently staying at that resort. She should I taken it then; because when I arrive tomorrow at 2PM, I don't sleep on the beach and I already KNOW there is nothing. If she calls me before boarding the flight, she will be wondering why the price is $225 more (parking, bridge, and plane ticket?). Plus, I will add on Paypal fees!

 

[nshugg]

I Agree

I agree completely. Butts in beds is what it's all about. Every penny offsets maintenance fees.

I'll never understand the mentality of "I'd rather lose all of my money on my week then most of it"

It seems silly, First off, the value of your rental isn't some ridiculously high number you make up in your mind, its what the market will pay for it, pricing is elastic it changes minute by minute and depends on hundreds of factors(For me its defined by my personal budget, there is NOTHING i will pay more then $100 a night for, NOTHING)...IF you are only getting what you believe are low ball offers, obviously your asking too much...You guys should feel privileged to even get offered $100 for you week...

Letting you week go to waste because you can't accept the REAL value of your week is stubborn and ignorant...It's the same thing with retail buyers and the thing we fight everyday against here on TUG

 

[BocaBum99]

I don't understand why you would rather let a week go empty instead of getting any money back? If its a week or 2 before check in and no one else is interested in renting, even $20 in your pocket is better than $0 isn't it? I don't understand? How much of your time does it take to process a weeks rental?

You have to be in the business to truly understand that 100% occupancy is NOT the profit maximizing strategy. If it were, then hotels would attempt to get it. They don't.

The profit maximizing strategy is roughly 80-90% occupancy with higher prices. When you get the higher prices, it more than makes up for the empty nights.

That said, I get a lot of rentals on the day before check in. If I were desperate for your $20, I would not be getting lots of rentals on the day before checkin at $200-500. I get one of those, it is worth 10 or more of those lowballers who are staying home instead of in my unit.

 

[BocaBum99]

I agree completely. Butts in beds is what it's all about. Every penny offsets maintenance fees.

No it isn't. It's about return on invested capital. 100% occupancy does not maximize it.

 

[Ridewithme38]

To be fair...I've looked over my numerous previous rentals...I HAVE paid more then $100 a night for TWO of them

 

[AbsolutelyFascinatedByYou]

Smart business is perfectly understandable, but...

For those who feel it's advantageous from a financial perspective to have empty units sometimes, that might be a perfectly valid stance. However, keep in mind that the original poster started this thread by saying that lowballers are disgusting riff-raff who should be kept out of resorts.

That ain't business talking.

And I'd still like to hear who's walking away from my $20 Cezanne so as not to insult the delicate feelings of the seller.

 

[rickandcindy23]

You have to be in the business to truly understand that 100% occupancy is NOT the profit maximizing strategy. If it were, then hotels would attempt to get it. They don't.

The profit maximizing strategy is roughly 80-90% occupancy with higher prices. When you get the higher prices, it more than makes up for the empty nights.

That said, I get a lot of rentals on the day before check in. If I were desperate for your $20, I would not be getting lots of rentals on the day before checkin at $200-500. I get one of those, it is worth 10 or more of those lowballers who are staying home instead of in my unit.

Finally, the voice of reason! BB, you are the smartest timeshare wiz I know, and you are so right. This thread was making me nuts!

Owners, don't settle for less, because then people expect to get it much cheaper next time. It's neverending, and the people on eBay are playing the, "who can beat whom," game. Some rentals are better off sitting empty.

I never understand why someone posts a last-minute rental for a Marriott or Starwood. Deposit the week into II! It's worth more than $700 or your best offer to have another week for exchange.

Never keep a Wyndham < 15 days out, hoping to rent it cheap to someone. Give it back to Wyndham and move on. Some owner probably wants that week and is hoping you will let it go. It's better off with someone who really wants it.

 

[LLW]

I don't understand why you would rather let a week go empty instead of getting any money back? If its a week or 2 before check in and no one else is interested in renting, even $20 in your pocket is better than $0 isn't it? I don't understand? How much of your time does it take to process a weeks rental?

It's easy to not do what you recommend because:

1. If I rent it for $20 now, it will be harder for me to rent for $100 in the future.

2. People who want a nice condo for $20 will probably cause hassles that are not worth getting $20 for in damages and complaints (from both the renter about the resort, and the resort and neighbors about the renter).

3. Yes, my time and business risk taken are worth more than $20.


As Boca said, smart negotiators know how to keep the negotiation going. Offering $20 for a $100 asking price, even if it's the day before, is not the way to keep the negotiation alive.

 

[Ridewithme38]

As Boca said, smart negotiators know how to keep the negotiation going. Offering $20 for a $100 asking price, even if it's the day before, is not the way to keep the negotiation alive.

So what would be reasonable? Say i'm looking at a place that is for rent for two nights for $449...Would it be offensive to offer $225(Half the price) what about $200($100 a night)?? Lets here from the renters...Whats the difference in percentage between between offensive lowballing and 'smart negotiating'?

 

[Beefnot]

You have to be in the business to truly understand that 100% occupancy is NOT the profit maximizing strategy. If it were, then hotels would attempt to get it. They don't.

The profit maximizing strategy is roughly 80-90% occupancy with higher prices. When you get the higher prices, it more than makes up for the empty nights.

That said, I get a lot of rentals on the day before check in. If I were desperate for your $20, I would not be getting lots of rentals on the day before checkin at $200-500. I get one of those, it is worth 10 or more of those lowballers who are staying home instead of in my unit.

That's not entirely accurate. The profit maximizing strategy would also move otherwise unused inventory at a rate that exceeds your marginal cost. So theoretically, if you know you could make a healthy return at 80-90% occupancy at higher prices, then you could "dump" the rest of the inventory for pennies on the dollar to maximize your profitability. Now, I do understand that this can be difficult to practically accomplish without devaluing your core rentals.

What should also be kept in mind is that for those who do not run rental businesses, but instead rent one or two units here and there, what you describe may be an entirely impractical approach. In these cases, there is simply a choice between 100% occupancy or 0% occupancy. The profit maximizing approach in that case is to ensure the unit gets rented for a rate that exceeds the cost.

 

[Talent312]

Whats the difference in percentage between between offensive lowballing and 'smart negotiating'?

10%?... Its also a question of phrasing.
There are people who, if they worked for the State Department, would have us at war in no time, and others who are so sincere, they could sell a TS for full-freight to Ahmadinejad.

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

I actually have problems with lowballers who come to TUG for the sole purpose of lowballing, usually have posts less than 10, and they have done nothing over the years to learn about timesharing or how rentals work. Usually they are not even going to take the rental, they just want to see how low somebody can go.

I would rather give away for free my last minute empty condo to a well established Tugger than to a less than 10 posts (lowball only guest).

 

[Royal Flush]

TUG is a joke

In my limmited experience, TUG is about the worst place to rent or adverstise your timeshare. If you are looking to buy, the asking price is usually dramatically more than market price and as a buyer, I have no desire to contact people who are so out of touch with reality.

As a renter, I have been even more disapointed with tug. I when I tried to rent my OceanWatch unit on TUG, I got no responses and my price was very fair. Then, when I posted a rental wanted add, all I get are offers for other resorts, that don't even come close to what I want to rent, other than they are in the same city.

Since adverstising on TUG is free, I will probably still do it, but I have quickly learned not to expect much of anything. Places like Redweek and Ebay are much better options. Sorry, TUG. No big complaints from me, it's nice to have someplace free to advertise, but somehow the tug marketplace has become somewhat useless.

YUP you are so right. Why be on TUG when all this offers is a race to the bottom! TUG advertised $ 1 timeshares on eBay to all their users. It is like having a used car lot to sell used cars (or rent them) while at the same time telling all the customers, go here to get a FREE car!! How insane is this?????? This hole effort on TUG makes NO SENSE and only adds more terrible evil to the very sick timeshare business. Imagine. all these BEAUTIFUL resorts in your neighbourhood going empty because of TUG and all the greedy timeshare developers. NO SENSE.
I had a long discussion with someone at TUG and they just cannot be responsible for their part in this timeshare nightmare, what is wrong with people?!
:annoyed:

 

[timeos2]

YUP you are so right. Why be on TUG when all this offers is a race to the bottom! TUG advertised $ 1 timeshares on eBay to all their users. It is like having a used car lot to sell used cars (or rent them) while at the same time telling all the customers, go here to get a FREE car!! How insane is this?????? This hole effort on TUG makes NO SENSE and only adds more terrible evil to the very sick timeshare business. Imagine. all these BEAUTIFUL resorts in your neighbourhood going empty because of TUG and all the greedy timeshare developers. NO SENSE.
I had a long discussion with someone at TUG and they just cannot be responsible for their part in this timeshare nightmare, what is wrong with people?!
:annoyed:

You give too much credit to our relatively small TUG nation. We are not capable of setting the market prices - if we could & create a vibrant market for ts resales we would! - but our offers merely reflect the way things are. Its bad right now bit TUG didn't cause it.

 

[DeniseM]

YUP you are so right. Why be on TUG when all this offers is a race to the bottom! TUG advertised $ 1 timeshares on eBay to all their users. It is like having a used car lot to sell used cars (or rent them) while at the same time telling all the customers, go here to get a FREE car!! How insane is this?????? This hole effort on TUG makes NO SENSE and only adds more terrible evil to the very sick timeshare business. Imagine. all these BEAUTIFUL resorts in your neighbourhood going empty because of TUG and all the greedy timeshare developers. NO SENSE.
I had a long discussion with someone at TUG and they just cannot be responsible for their part in this timeshare nightmare, what is wrong with people?!
:annoyed:

So it's TUG's fault, that YOU bought a timeshare from the developer, and now it has no resale value? Seriously?

Here is the painful truth -
YOU made a bad financial decision.
YOU made an impulse purchase without doing your due diligence.

Lots of people here have bought from the developer and regretted it later, but blaming TUG for YOUR poor decision making is absolutely ludicrous, and it makes it perfectly clear that you still don't understand the timeshare market...

 

[ampaholic]

YUP you are so right. Why be on TUG when all this offers is a race to the bottom! TUG advertised $ 1 timeshares on eBay to all their users. It is like having a used car lot to sell used cars (or rent them) while at the same time telling all the customers, go here to get a FREE car!! How insane is this?????? This hole effort on TUG makes NO SENSE and only adds more terrible evil to the very sick timeshare business. Imagine. all these BEAUTIFUL resorts in your neighbourhood going empty because of TUG and all the greedy timeshare developers. NO SENSE.
I had a long discussion with someone at TUG and they just cannot be responsible for their part in this timeshare nightmare, what is wrong with people?!
:annoyed:

No matter how much you try to sharpen that ax here it won't bite. TUGERS have some small influence on the market prices on eBay but certainly no control over it.

I don't think there are three timeshares on eBay that are advertised by TUGERS, let alone ALL of them.

Please have another cup of coffee before you rant next time.

 

[LLW]

So what would be reasonable? Say i'm looking at a place that is for rent for two nights for $449...Would it be offensive to offer $225(Half the price) what about $200($100 a night)?? Lets here from the renters...Whats the difference in percentage between between offensive lowballing and 'smart negotiating'?

We could tell you, but then we would have to kill you. Why train somebody to be a smart negotiator?

 

[Royal Flush]

Boca is a wise man who understands that a reading the menu while standing outside the diner is different than being inside, being seat at a table, reading the menu, asking about how things are cooked and THEN stating that price is too high as they could cook the same at home for 15 cents on the dollar then leaving the diner with offended at the waitstaff.

Yes, well said. I think people forget that others are paying for this week or this timeshare and that when they lowball they are disrespecting this.

 

[Royal Flush]

So it's TUG's fault, that YOU bought a timeshare from the developer, and now it has no resale value? Seriously?

Here is the painful truth -
YOU made a bad financial decision.
YOU made an impulse purchase without doing your due diligence.

Lots of people here have bought from the developer and regretted it later, but blaming TUG for YOUR poor decision making is absolutely ludicrous, and it makes it perfectly clear that you still don't understand the timeshare market...

NOT blaming TUG. Nope.
TUG is not the cause, but is contributing in a big way, as I explained.
Why have a marketplace and gloat about free timeshares? Where do you think this timeshares are coming from? Someone is being CRUNCHED in this transaction, and sometimes it is to the tune of many thousands of $$.
Why not organize instead and help people deal with the situation they are caught in ? People could be forcing timeshares to:
1. take back units
2. dissolve the timeshare and sell the units for housing (we found out this is happening in Myrtle Beach, people own units at the timeshare and LIVE there year round)
3. force timeshares to rent units
4. to be accountable and responsible to the owners (ie I know that Carriage Hills in Ontario rents out large blocks of rooms to sports teams, etc. I have Never seen the income from this on the annual reports and NO ONE is answering our questions)

 

[rickandcindy23]

Why not organize instead and help people deal with the situation they are caught in ?

As people already said, TUG did not create the problem, nor are we contributing to the problem. The economy, timeshare developers, salespeople who lie, increasing fees, people defaulting, PCC's, and upfront fee companies share the blame (there are more, too).

TUG members sound the alarm, yes, but we didn't cause any of the timeshare devaluations. We are victims like anyone else. We bought retail three times (once with our eyes wide open), and twice when we were too young to know better.

The economy is really the biggest culprit. Stop blaming the people who press the fire alarm button.

 

[Royal Flush]

That's not entirely accurate. The profit maximizing strategy would also move otherwise unused inventory at a rate that exceeds your marginal cost. So theoretically, if you know you could make a healthy return at 80-90% occupancy at higher prices, then you could "dump" the rest of the inventory for pennies on the dollar to maximize your profitability. Now, I do understand that this can be difficult to practically accomplish without devaluing your core rentals.

What should also be kept in mind is that for those who do not run rental businesses, but instead rent one or two units here and there, what you describe may be an entirely impractical approach. In these cases, there is simply a choice between 100% occupancy or 0% occupancy. The profit maximizing approach in that case is to ensure the unit gets rented for a rate that exceeds the cost.

Expedia does this with their unpublished rates.