Lowballers

[DeniseM]

I think you missed the "Unintentional by the owner" Part...I read alot of threads on here about mistakes made by the resorts themselves...I AGREE WITH YOU...the odds that you are going to find an Owner who will be intentionally ripping people off are slim to none...BUT if you include the unintentional and the 'no refund policies'...which IS the risk, the odds go up quite a bit....About as high as a renter screwing the owners over...

Ride - it's not even close. I get 2 dozen emails from scam renters every day - renter scams are a dime a dozen. Owner scams are EXTREMELY rare, because they are impossible to get away with, because the resort has all the owner's info.

Even unintentional mistakes are easy to detect - all the renter has to do is to VERIFY the reservation with the resort and use some common sense. I remember another thread where you stated that you showed up for a rental without verifying it with the resort - that is not the way to protect yourself.

I'd like to point out that you have VERY LITTLE experience with rentals, and when you cry wolf like this, you are doing everyone a dis-service.

 

[brucecz]

Ride - it's not even close. I get 2 dozen emails from scam renters every day - renter scams are a dime a dozen. Owner scams are EXTREMELY rare, because they are impossible to get away with, because the resort has all the owner's info.

Even unintentional mistakes are easy to detect - all the renter has to do is to VERIFY the reservation with the resort and use some common sense. I remember another thread where you stated that you showed up for a rental without verifying it with the resort - that is not the way to protect yourself.

I'd like to point out that you have VERY LITTLE experience with rentals, and when you cry wolf like this, you are doing everyone a dis-service.

Especially off of Craigs List for scammers.

Bruce

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - it's not even close. I get 2 dozen emails from scam renters every day - renter scams are a dime a dozen.

I'm sorry but those aren't renters....If you followed up with even 1/2 of those Spam emails you'd find you won't get a reply...and when you do, they will have no idea what they are replying too

If i post a "Rental wanted" on Craigslist i'd get the same types of emails...Its just silly to consider automated spam a 'risk'

Even unintentional mistakes are easy to detect - all the renter has to do is to VERIFY the reservation with the resort and use some common sense. .

I'm sorry but, having to call to a resort and verify a reservation, that you have recieved a confirmation for from the owner, doesn't exactly imply that there is no risk to the the renter....If we have to call to verify it means that there is a 'risk' the confirmation is wrong...This is only a SMALL part of the bigger risk of renting privately....and why the rates SHOULD be so low

 

[DeniseM]

I'm sorry but those aren't renters....If you followed up with even 1/2 of those Spam emails you'd find you won't get a reply...and when you do, they will have no idea what they are replying too

If i post a "Rental wanted" on Craigslist i'd get the same types of emails...Its just silly to consider automated spam a 'risk'



I'm sorry but, having to call to a resort and verify a reservation, that you have recieved a confirmation for from the owner, doesn't exactly imply that there is no risk to the the renter....If we have to call to verify it means that there is a 'risk' the confirmation is wrong...This is only a SMALL part of the bigger risk of renting privately....and why the rates SHOULD be so low

A savvy consumer calls and verifies all confirmations - it's simply good common sense to do so. If you verify your confirmation with the resort, why would they turn you away at check-in? Have you ever heard of someone who verified their confirmation and was turned away at check-in? Of course not - you are just making it up as you go along... as usual....

Actually, we hear of a LOT more mistakes made by exchange companies, than with private rentals. Do you consider exchange company trades to be risky? Do you warn exchangers that they may not be allowed to check in?

 

[Beefnot]

A savvy consumer calls and verifies all confirmations - it's simply good common sense to do so. If you verify your confirmation with the resort, why would they turn you away at check-in? Have you ever heard of someone who verified their confirmation and was turned away at check-in? Of course not - you are just making it up as you go along... as usual....

Actually, we hear of a LOT more mistakes made by exchange companies, than with private rentals. Do you consider exchange company trades to be risky? Do you warn exchangers that they may not be allowed to check in?

Although with exchange companies, I would imagine there is more straightforward recourse.

 

[ace2000]

Renting timeshares are flat out risky, and as a result, renters need a significant discount over a risk free rental.

Sure, there is a certain degree of risk. There is a very real risk of not getting exactly what was stated in the advertisement. For example, I've seen numerous ads where the picture in the ad shows a Presidential unit or some other unit that there is no way that the rentee will be able to get. Or a 1BR studio advertised like a deluxe. Or some other detail that is conveniently left out. I know, it's up to the renter to verify everything, right?

 

[Ridewithme38]

Actually, we hear of a LOT more mistakes made by exchange companies, than with private rentals. Do you consider exchange company trades to be risky?

I'm not sure its ALOT more mistakes by exchange companies then it is with private rentals, but don't forget, the exchange companies do everything they can to make up for those mistakes, the private renters say 'too bad, my contract said NO REFUNDS'

But, Yes, this is why when renting through RCI i make sure it is lower then any rental price available privately....Even though the risk of renting Privately is alot higher

 

[Ridewithme38]

Sure, there is a certain degree of risk. There is a very real risk of not getting exactly what was stated in the advertisement. For example, I've seen numerous ads where the picture in the ad shows a Presidential unit or some other unit that there is no way that the rentee will be able to get. Or a 1BR studio advertised like a deluxe. Or some other detail that is conveniently left out. I know, it's up to the renter to verify everything, right?

And because of that, we have to use MORE of our time when renting privately then not....Our time is worth money just like the owners....This is part of the discounted rate that should be available to private renters

 

[brucecz]

Although with exchange companies, I would imagine there is more straightforward recourse.

Wrong as most exchange companies do not permitt their exchanges to be rented out.

Bruce

 

[DeniseM]

I'm not sure its ALOT more mistakes by exchange companies then it is with private rentals,

Since I have 8 more years on TUG than you do, I can assure you that this is accurate.

but don't forget, the exchange companies do everything they can to make up for those mistakes, the private renters say 'too bad, my contract said NO REFUNDS'

Again - please give me one example of a post on TUG where a renter tried to check into a private rental, was turned away, and the owner said "too bad, my contract said NO REFUNDS."

Obviously, you can't - so that means you are just making it up... again...

 

[Beefnot]

Since I have 8 more years on TUG than you do, I can assure you that this is accurate.

Again - please give me one example of a post on TUG where a renter tried to check into a private rental, was turned away, and the owner said "too bad, my contract said NO REFUNDS."

Obviously, you can't - so that means you are just making it up... again...

You're probably right, but I would say that there is perceived risk that if something goes sideways, it will be more of a hassle to pursue recourse. Of course, I would be more comfortable renting from a long-standing TUG member because I know I could take an issue to the streets of TUG if something went wrong. Just some random owner on another site, eh, not as comfortable.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Bruce, Beef... I hate seeing you guys disagree...How about you two agree to disagree and Me and DeniseM agree to disagree...I'm afraid this thread is on the edge of a cliff

DeniseM this is one of those cultural divide subjects, i'm afraid that no matter how much both of us believe we are right on this subject, we will never convince the other....I'd like to request that we 'agree to disagree' and let this die down....

 

[DeniseM]

You're probably right, but I would say that there is perceived risk that if something goes sideways, it will be more of a hassle to pursue recourse. Of course, I would be more comfortable renting from a long-standing TUG member because I know I could take an issue to the streets of TUG if something went wrong. Just some random owner on another site, eh, not as comfortable.

I agree - the preceived risk of a private rental is really far greater than the actual risk. It would be quite difficult for a scammer to deceive an informed consumer who does their due diligence.

 

[DeniseM]

DeniseM this is one of those cultural divide subjects, i'm afraid that no matter how much both of us believe we are right on this subject, we will never convince the other....I'd like to request that we 'agree to disagree' and let this die down....

Ride - you are posting factually incorrect info., just to stir the pot, when in fact you have very little experience with rentals, and can't back up any of your claims.

This is not helpful to people who come to TUG for ACCURATE information...

 

[markel]

Wrong about WHAT? I actually didn't disagree with much of what you and timeos2 wrote, it was just that you were beating a dead horse in a Marriott forum with a lot of venom. Perhaps I'm wrong that I called you out for hijacking that thread you referenced? I was RIGHT about that, just like you decided to hijack this thread.

Bruce, how about you start a thread entitled "Why beefnot is wrong and a Marriott apologist", then provide your evidence. Once it becomes painfully clear that you have misdirected anger at me for apparently no good reason, then maybe the rest of us in this thread talking about lowballing can go back to enjoying the discussion.

I like that idea.

 

[Beefnot]

I agree - the preceived risk of a private rental is really far greater than the actual risk. It would be quite difficult for a scammer to deceive an informed consumer who does their due diligence.

I would concur, and defer to the insights from long-time TUGgers on this subject as far as actual risk is concerned. Still, if I ever decide to rent, it will be at a substantial discount from retail.

 

[Ridewithme38]

I agree - the preceived risk of a private rental is really far greater than the actual risk. It would be quite difficult for a scammer to deceive an informed consumer who does their due diligence.

It's a shame that because of the ACTUAL risk, the consumer HAS to do so much Diligence...Maybe if the owners would actually do the work they are WAY over charging for....i rented a week to a friend recently...because i wanted everything to work out perfectly...i called the resort EVERY OTHER DAY for a MONTH, to make sure that the reservation would be perfect...and because it was rented to a friend....I made NOT A SINGLE DOLLAR in profit!

The fact is, as long as a RENTER has to take time out of his busy schedule to do the OWNERS job, to lower the risk....That risk is still there and because of that risk...Prices should be discounted to reflect it

 

[ace2000]

Help me out... I really don't feel like reading through 3 pages of posts. What are we all agreeing to disagree about? And when did we start judging who's right or wrong with how long you've been a TUG member or how many posts you have?

:hysterical:

 

[Ridewithme38]

Help me out... I really don't feel like reading through 3 pages of posts. What are we all agreeing to disagree about? And when did we start judging who's right or wrong with how long you've been a TUG member or how many posts you have?

:hysterical:

I can't BELIEVE you would post that in this thread when you ONLY have 1,812 posts! How dare you question members like ME with 1,894 posts! For shame!

 

[Beefnot]

I can't BELIEVE you would post that in this thread when you ONLY have 1,812 posts! How dare you question members like ME with 1,894 posts! For shame!

All he needs is to fend off one nonsensical tirade from brucecz and he'll close that gap in no time.

 

[DeniseM]

It's a shame that because of the ACTUAL risk, the consumer HAS to do so much Diligence...Maybe if the owners would actually do the work they are WAY over charging for....i rented a week to a friend recently...because i wanted everything to work out perfectly...i called the resort EVERY OTHER DAY for a MONTH, to make sure that the reservation would be perfect...and because it was rented to a friend....I made NOT A SINGLE DOLLAR in profit!

The fact is, as long as a RENTER has to take time out of his busy schedule to do the OWNERS job, to lower the risk....That risk is still there and because of that risk...Prices should be discounted to reflect it

Ride - You've fallen off the Troll bridge and into the river with this post.

Come back when you have some FACTS to prove how risky renting is...

 

[Beefnot]

It's a shame that because of the ACTUAL risk, the consumer HAS to do so much Diligence...Maybe if the owners would actually do the work they are WAY over charging for....i rented a week to a friend recently...because i wanted everything to work out perfectly...i called the resort EVERY OTHER DAY for a MONTH, to make sure that the reservation would be perfect...and because it was rented to a friend....I made NOT A SINGLE DOLLAR in profit!

The fact is, as long as a RENTER has to take time out of his busy schedule to do the OWNERS job, to lower the risk....That risk is still there and because of that risk...Prices should be discounted to reflect it

Yes, the actual risk is there, but the perception of the likelihood that this actual risk will materialize is likely greater than the stats would prove out. However, that is opaque to the renter, so the market rate for private rentals will typically be less than for retail rentals. I would imagine that you and DeniseM do agree that there is an understandable discount, although you disagree about the magnitude of actual risk. And DeniseM's perspective on that is probably closer to the truth than yours. Either way, we should be free to lowball away and let the market decide what offers get considered and accepted.

 

[Ridewithme38]

Ride - You've fallen off the Troll bridge and into the river with this post.

Come back when you have some FACTS to prove how risky renting is...

I'm kinda surprised that your stance is that the owner has no responsibility to validate that the product they selling is actually available and usable...Just the fact the the renter HAS to validate what they are renting is a scam upon itself...and to think that YOU should make ANY profit when the renter is doing all the work is unthinkable

 

[DeniseM]

I'm kinda surprised that your stance is that the owner has no responsibility to validate that the product they selling is actually available and usable...Just the fact the the renter HAS to validate what they are renting is a scam upon itself...and to think that YOU should make ANY profit when the renter is doing all the work is unthinkable

:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Here is some advice - when you are diggin' a hole - QUIT DIGGING!

 

[bizaro86]

The fact that recommendations on this thread are to call the resort demonstrates (imo) that renting privately is more risky than renting "direct."

I've made hundreds of hotel reservations online, and I never call the hotel to follow up. I show up, and they give me a room.

Renting a TS from someone you found on the internet is comparatively much more risky. I don't have to do any due diligence on expedia when I book, I just do it. There are going to be less people willing to take the time/due diligence to reduce that risk, so prices are less.

An actual owner wouldn't be able to run a scam, but someone who has one confirmation from somewhere and photoshop could. They'd be able to collect money from people who don't call/follow up.