Marriott Vacation Points--Value??, Resale??

[Hoo]

We own 2 Marriott timeshare weeks and enrolled them in the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations program, purchasing and additional 2,500 points for a total of 7,400 points (Executive Level) a couple of years ago. We're doing some estate planning and the lawyer wants an accounting of our assets. Is there any real number I can provide as to the worth of these 7,400 points? Realistically, can they be sold on the open market (and, if so, where or how?) or sold back to Marriott? If so, is there a price/point I can assign or expect to receive for estate planning purposes. I saw somewhere on this site that Marriott was quoting $13.10/point, but that seems highly dubious and I'm sure these are usually greatly discounted. If that was the case 7,400 points would be worth $97K. I'm sure they are really worth only a very small fraction of that. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[tschwa2]

The enrolled weeks become un-enrolled when sold. There value is the value of the underlying weeks. The 2500 points sell for around $3.50-$4.00 per point minus any commission unless you are selling them yourself.

 

[Hoo]

So the 2500 points are worth $8,750-$10,000 at $3.50-4.00 a point--a far cry from the $13.10/point value reportedly claimed by Marriott. You state the enrolled weeks become unenrolled when sold. One of our weeks (Ocean Pointe) was bought directly from Marriott and the other (Desert Springs Villas II) was bought in the aftermarket. Are both of these treated equivalently? In other words, I would have to sell each timeshare week and could not just sell the points directly. If that is the case, can anyone hazard a guess on the value of the two weeks: 2 bedroom Gold week at Desert Spring Villas II, and 2 BR (with lock off) Gold Week at Ocean Pointe (Ocean view). A google search just now led me to one site where the Ocean Pointe Gold weeks have asking prices of $4,500-8000 and the Desert Spring Villas Gold weeks are being offered for $1,900-3,000. Does that seem about right?

 

[Fasttr]

This website http://www.rofr.net will give you a pretty good idea of what the going sales prices are. Just select Marriott and Select your Resort(s) from the pull down menu's, then find your season and BR size. If it passed ROFR, then somebody actually paid that price for the week. If it failed ROFR, that means that MVC stepped in and snatched the week from the potential buyer as presumably it was priced more favorably (at least in MVC's mind).

 

[bazzap]

And in answer to your other question, yes it makes no difference whether you bought your week direct from MVC or Resale. Once you sell it, it becomes unenrolled.

 

[JIMinNC]

The $13+ per point is Marriott Vacation Club's list price for points they sell direct to buyers. In practice, they tend to discount the price into the $11-$12 range. But neither price really relates to the market value of the points, which is what your estate attorney is looking for. The lawyer wants to know how much money you could generate by selling what you own -- that is the true market value.

So, you would have to sell the Ocean Point and Desert Springs ownership as weeks, since the point value does not transfer to a resale buyer after June 2010. As Fasttr suggested, the ROFR.NET site will give you an idea of what weeks actually sold for on the open market. You will have to deduct any broker commissions you have to pay to sell the units from those prices, though. Another resource is the internal Marriott Resales site at:

https://www.marriottvacationclub.com/resales/index.shtml

If you can find your same unit size/season/view on that site, it will show you what Marriott's price is to buy that same week. Marriott takes a 40% commission on these resales, so the cash that the seller can generate by listing and selling through Marriott Resales is 60% of the listed sales price. Since Marriott charges higher prices than the third-party resales market, sometimes a seller can generate more net $$$ by listing through Marriott rather than an external broker. It just depends on the week and the relative difference between open market prices and Marriott Resales prices.

For your 2500 points, you would need to sell them on the open market for the $3.50 to $4.50 per point price (less commission). Marriott Resales only brokers resale weeks, not the standalone Trust points you also own.

 

[Bunk]

So what happens upon the sale of the 2,500 points which are not attached to a property. Once the purchaser pays the Marriott fees, are those 2,500 points treated any differently than if they were purchased directly from Marriott.

 

[Fasttr]

So what happens upon the sale of the 2,500 points which are not attached to a property. Once the purchaser pays the Marriott fees, are those 2,500 points treated any differently than if they were purchased directly from Marriott.

As long as you pay the MVC junk fees, the points are currently treated just like any other Trust points within the DC.

 

[Bunk]

Thanks. And if someone buys a Marriott week that is enrolled in the Destination program, does the buyer have the right to pay similar junk fees and continue the enrollment of that week into the Destination program.

 

[1Kflyerguy]

Thanks. And if someone buys a Marriott week that is enrolled in the Destination program, does the buyer have the right to pay similar junk fees and continue the enrollment of that week into the Destination program.

It not that easy. The buy would basically be starting from scratch, and would have to go through whatever the then current enrollment process is.

 

[tschwa2]

Thanks. And if someone buys a Marriott week that is enrolled in the Destination program, does the buyer have the right to pay similar junk fees and continue the enrollment of that week into the Destination program.

There are no junk fees and no procedures to enroll a post 2010 resale. Marriott offers promotions that allow enrollment but they involve a retail purchase of points based on the number of weeks to be enrolled. It is not a standing offer and it is subject to change.

This was the offer from earlier this summer. Remember the points required are purchased at retail prices. There may be some discounts and bonuses but expect to pay at least $11 per point.

All,

It's back again (June 1, 2017)....just got this email.....

--------------------------------

Just announced this morning that we can “enroll” post-2010 externally purchased weeks from today through September 30th. From our internal announcement – “this is a limited time, special offer to celebrate our growth of new resorts, culinary tours, resort credits and more.”

3000 Points purchase enrolls 1 week (or 2 EOYs)
4000 Points purchase enrolls 2 weeks (or up to 4 EOYs)
5500 Points purchase enrolls 3-7 weeks (or up to 14 EOYs)

• Does not apply to Ritz Carlton or Grand Residence Club ownership
• US residents/ownership only

 

[JIMinNC]

It not that easy. The buy would basically be starting from scratch, and would have to go through whatever the then current enrollment process is.

As tschwa2 noted, it's not even that easy. In most cases, resale weeks bought after June 2010 are not even eligible to be enrolled at all. The only exceptions are 1.) resale weeks bought through Marriott Resales, which can be enrolled only if the buyer also buys a bundle of Trust points from Marriot equal to the week's point value; and 2.) on occasion when Marriott offers one of their limited time promotions where third-party purchased post-2010 resale weeks can be Enrolled with the purchase of at least 3000 Trust points from Marriott.

 

[StevenTing]

The proper way for valuation is to use current market value as seen on many of the for sale sights. As mentioned by others, ROFR.net is another great resource. I'm currently going through estate planning right now and am doing the same thing. Overall, the value of timeshares will go down. It's a depreciating asset so make sure you set your expectations accordingly. For example, I've paid a total of $148k for all of my weeks and points. For estate planning purposes, I have them valued around $88k. The bulk of that value comes from my Maui Fixed weeks since I bought those on the resale market. If I factor those out, I paid a total of $80k, and the "value" of those weeks and points is $20k based on current resale pricing.

 

[StevenTing]

So the 2500 points are worth $8,750-$10,000 at $3.50-4.00 a point--a far cry from the $13.10/point value reportedly claimed by Marriott. You state the enrolled weeks become unenrolled when sold. One of our weeks (Ocean Pointe) was bought directly from Marriott and the other (Desert Springs Villas II) was bought in the aftermarket. Are both of these treated equivalently? In other words, I would have to sell each timeshare week and could not just sell the points directly. If that is the case, can anyone hazard a guess on the value of the two weeks: 2 bedroom Gold week at Desert Spring Villas II, and 2 BR (with lock off) Gold Week at Ocean Pointe (Ocean view). A google search just now led me to one site where the Ocean Pointe Gold weeks have asking prices of $4,500-8000 and the Desert Spring Villas Gold weeks are being offered for $1,900-3,000. Does that seem about right?

You're on the right track.

For your Ocean Point week, I'd guess the value is around $2500. ROFR shows sale prices between $2000 and $3000. Redweek.com has listing prices as low as $1500 for a "medium" week. I'm making the assumption that Medium = Gold and that High = Platinum.

For your DSV2 week, I'd guess $1000. My valuation comes from RedWeek.com as ROFR.net doesn't have enough current data points for me to evaluate.

Your Points I think you could safely value at $3.00 so that gets you to $7500. I tend to go lower on points prices and if happens to go for more, that's always a bonus.

So in summary, I'd say you're portfolio could be estimated to be $11k+ for estate planning purposes.

 

[Tony Carrozza]

Do as your lawyers suggest. They have the accurate knowledge about the market value. My aunt also faced this problem and have done the same. Lawyers and their extra resources are very helpful in making some tough decision in our life like selling and purchasing a property.

 

[Dean]

Do as your lawyers suggest. They have the accurate knowledge about the market value. My aunt also faced this problem and have done the same. Lawyers and their extra resources are very helpful in making some tough decision in our life like selling and purchasing a property.

While I think providing the info requested is best, we're talking about a true evaluation of in the range of $12-15K here, no more than many cars and likely depreciating about as much. I would disagree with one thing, as a rule lawyers are completely uninformed about timeshares unless they're in the business or integrated other ways. Sometimes the same is true of tax professionals as well.

 

[chris5]

While I think providing the info requested is best, we're talking about a true evaluation of in the range of $12-15K here, no more than many cars and likely depreciating about as much. I would disagree with one thing, as a rule lawyers are completely uninformed about timeshares unless they're in the business or integrated other ways. Sometimes the same is true of tax professionals as well.

We used a very reputable estate planning lawyer and both myself and my wife are lawyers. The GST exemption for a married couple is nearly $11 million. It's possible for my wife and I to be at that level in 10 years, if the bull market continues, but I can't see the relevance of any estate planning lawyer asking us for a valuation of timeshares. And if one has a high valued estate, why would timeshares (or other luxury consumption items) be a subject of inquiry for estate planning. (I can see the relevance of that inquiry if one had fractional ownership valued above $250K and you were tripping over the GST exemption level.) In our case, we have not figured whether to drop the timeshares into our living trusts or have a transfer of death deed for them -- but this is not on the radar screen for our estate planning lawyer -- it's something we can handle ourselves.

 

[Dean]

We used a very reputable estate planning lawyer and both myself and my wife are lawyers. The GST exemption for a married couple is nearly $11 million. It's possible for my wife and I to be at that level in 10 years, if the bull market continues, but I can't see the relevance of any estate planning lawyer asking us for a valuation of timeshares. And if one has a high valued estate, why would timeshares (or other luxury consumption items) be a subject of inquiry for estate planning. (I can see the relevance of that inquiry if one had fractional ownership valued above $250K and you were tripping over the GST exemption level.) In our case, we have figured yet whether to drop the timeshares into our living trusts or have a transfer of death deed for them -- but this is not on the radar screen for our estate planning lawyer -- it's something we can handle ourselves.

I suspect they're just trying to be thorough and are likely under the false sense that the timeshares are worth significantly more than they are. One advantage of transferring them to a trust is you can largely avoid the transitional time and aggravation by those less knowledgeable about the asset and method than the current owner. But a trust is a pain and has expenses of it's own. We have not gone that route but wanted to gather more information about using a trust OR adding adult children directly. At this point we're likely just going to pass along detailed notes and information to simplify the options when the need arises.

 

[chris5]

I think we're going to do transfer on death deeds to our children for our weeks based timeshares -- this way the kids can disclaim the timeshares if they don't want them and if disclaimed, they'll probably be sold by the estate (or trust as our pour-over wills transfer everything to testamentary trusts, anyway). As we also have MVC points, we'll probably transfer those directly while living to any child that also enrolls in the program -- failing that, we'll leave it to the estate (or trust) to be sold. I would not add adult children directly as joints owners -- too many complications while living for that.

Can someone remind me of the rules on Marriott Reward Points regarding portability or transfers? I thought in recent years Marriott made it more flexible to transfer MRPs to other MRP account holders, while living, but doesn't recognize joint ownership or transfers of points at death.

 

[Dean]

Can someone remind me of the rules on Marriott Reward Points regarding portability or transfers? I thought in recent years Marriott made it more flexible to transfer MRPs to other MRP account holders, while living, but doesn't recognize joint ownership or transfers of points at death.

My understanding is they transfer to a spouse ONLY.

 

[bazzap]

My understanding is they transfer to a spouse ONLY.

From their Ts & Cs
"Accrued Points and Miles do not constitute property of the Member. Points accrued by a Rewards Program Member are for the Member's benefit only and may not be transferred to anyone except as provided below. Points are transferable to a legal spouse or domestic partner in the case of documented death of the Member. In addition, there is a limited exception for the transfer of Points to the accounts of friends or family. See “Earn Points – Transferring Points from One Account to Another.” Points are not transferable to another person for any other reason, including divorce or inheritance. Points cannot be bartered or sold for cash or other consideration. Any Points which Marriott Rewards deems in its sole discretion to have been transferred in violation of Rewards Program Terms and Conditions may be confiscated."