Mexico Takes Action

[saabman]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-illicit-alcohol-crackdown-resorts/562385001/

 

[chemteach]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-illicit-alcohol-crackdown-resorts/562385001/

I am glad to see this posted here. I love going to Mexico, and the thread about the death of a 20 year old woman was very disturbing. The U.S. has issued a warning about tainted alcohol. It looks like the 20 year old's death was due to involuntary manslaughter. Though not proven, all the evidence suggests this is the case. The All Inclusive resort where the woman drowned - one of the Iberostar resorts, was one of 2 resorts closed down in the Cancun area due to having "tainted" alcohol. The woman's mother was quoted saying how important the finding was. Hopefully, the parents can have some peace at least having a better understanding of what happened to their daughter. My heart goes out to them.

While these reports won't prevent me from visiting Mexico again, I hope people will not "poopoo" posts that display realistic negativity toward Mexico. There are some real problems with drug cartels, and now we learn with some of the alcohol people have been drinking. The article mentions that tens of millions of gallons of "tainted" alcohol have been found in resorts by authorities since 2010. This is not a new problem; it just wasn't publicized until recently, and the U.S. has finally issued warnings about it to travelers. It is a very sad story.

Will these issues prevent me from visiting Mexico? No. But it is important that people know the risks they are facing when traveling anywhere. And it is important that governments share with the public what they know to be true. The alcohol situation is one which has been know by the Mexican government, but nothing was done until it became a risk to their tourism industry. Very sad.

 

[Phydeaux]

I am glad to see this posted here. I love going to Mexico, and the thread about the death of a 20 year old woman was very disturbing. The U.S. has issued a warning about tainted alcohol. It looks like the 20 year old's death was due to involuntary manslaughter. Though not proven, all the evidence suggests this is the case. The All Inclusive resort where the woman drowned - one of the Iberostar resorts, was one of 2 resorts closed down in the Cancun area due to having "tainted" alcohol. The woman's mother was quoted saying how important the finding was. Hopefully, the parents can have some peace at least having a better understanding of what happened to their daughter. My heart goes out to them.

While these reports won't prevent me from visiting Mexico again, I hope people will not "poopoo" posts that display realistic negativity toward Mexico. There are some real problems with drug cartels, and now we learn with some of the alcohol people have been drinking. The article mentions that tens of millions of gallons of "tainted" alcohol have been found in resorts by authorities since 2010. This is not a new problem; it just wasn't publicized until recently, and the U.S. has finally issued warnings about it to travelers. It is a very sad story.

Will these issues prevent me from visiting Mexico? No. But it is important that people know the risks they are facing when traveling anywhere. And it is important that governments share with the public what they know to be true. The alcohol situation is one which has been know by the Mexican government, but nothing was done until it became a risk to their tourism industry. Very sad.

Uh huh, like the evidence that she & her brother consumed multiple shots of liquor within a short period of time, ended up with 0.25 BAC, completed inebriated, then dove into the shallow end of a pool. That's manslaughter these days, is it? Her broken clavicle is some of the evidence of manslaughter, huh? And the golf ball sized lump on her brothers head also, right?

Good grief.

 

[x3 skier]

I'm confused. There's lots of evidence of illegal alcohol but is it all "tainted"? If it's all tainted, people should be dropping like flies at open bars but they are not. OTOH, drugging people with illegal or legal alcohol can and does happen as well as intoxication by drinking too much of any kind of liquor at an open bar.

Seems to me there's clearly a lot of bootleg liquor in Mexico, but it isn't all poison unless there's a lot of dead people or drug victims hidden someplace. Equating bootleg with "tainted" is typical for what passes for journalism these days.

BTW, I was at Iberostar Paradiso Del Mar (one of the resorts cited) for a week earlier this year and survived as well as another 5 days at Lagunamar in Cancun.

Cheers

 

[PigsDad]

I'm confused. There's lots of evidence of illegal alcohol but is it all "tainted"? If it's all tainted, people should be dropping like flies at open bars but they are not. OTOH, drugging people with illegal or legal alcohol can and does happen as well as intoxication by drinking too much of any kind of liquor at an open bar.

I have not seen a single report that verified "tainted" alcohol at Mexican resorts. It would be so simple to prove that as well -- take a sample and have it tested. But instead, we get these stupid sensationalized reports that people take for gospel without applying any kind of logical thinking.

Seems to me there's clearly a lot of bootleg liquor in Mexico, but it isn't all poison unless there's a lot of dead people or drug victims hidden someplace. Equating bootleg with "tainted" is typical for what passes for journalism these days.

Exactly! Bootleg liquor ≠ tainted liquor!

BTW, I was at Iberostar Paradiso Del Mar (one of the resorts cited) for a week earlier this year and survived as well as another 5 days at Lagunamar in Cancun.

Wow! If I blindly believed all of the sensationalized "journalism" out there, you are an extremely lucky person to make it out of there alive!

Kurt

 

[PigsDad]

Uh huh, like the evidence that she & her brother consumed multiple shots of liquor within a short period of time, ended up with 0.25 BAC, completed inebriated, then dove into the shallow end of a pool. That's manslaughter these days, is it? Her broken clavicle is some of the evidence of manslaughter, huh? And the golf ball sized lump on her brothers head also, right?

But Mommy and Daddy are trying to deflect the fact that they are bad parents by providing no parental guidance and cut their kids loose at an all-you-can-drink bar, so there must be some nefarious conspiracy!

Good grief.

Agreed.

Kurt

 

[RX8]

I think "tainted" is their definition of alcohol that has simply bypassed the taxation process.

 

[geist1223]

I agree about the issues and differences between "illicit" alcohol and "tainted" alcohol. The News Agencies that tend towards sensationalism use the word "tainted" without any Laboratory Testing. The more responsible News Agencies use the word "illicit" alcohol which normally means shipped out the back door without taxes being paid. I was surprised that GMA was highlighting the word "tainted" without any evidence. If the brother and sister were drinking "tainted" alcohol how come 20 or 30 people did not end up in the Hospital that night. Maybe because they were not slamming shots and diving into the shallow end of the pool?

 

[easyrider]

I am very wary about what I drink or eat anywhere. That is one reason I do not participate in AI at the resorts. I will occasionally eat or have some drinks but I know what I am consuming. Often times, Crown Royal tastes like rum or tequila at busy night clubs anywhere because of all the drinks being served.

I wonder if all those tequila distilleries near PV have a government stamp. All of it is very tasty, imo.

Bill

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

I think "tainted" is their definition of alcohol that has simply bypassed the taxation process.

I will quote TUG member T_R_Oglodyte - July 27 - in the since closed thread on this topic .

" An alternative is to consume only raicilla -
then you know with certainty that you are consuming hooch "

*******

- Thanks Steve

 

[Phydeaux]

What if USA establishments began selling "champagne", but it was actually sparkling wine.

You do know the difference, right? Champagne must come from the region of Champagne, France. Anything else, albeit produced, distilled, bottled and honestly better quality outside of France must be called sparkling wine. So, would these establishments be selling 'tainted' alcohol? After all, it's not champagne, it's sparkling wine, right?

Horrors!!!!!

Well, tequila, to be called tequila can only be produced in the state of Jalisco and limited municipalities in the states of Guanajuato, Michoacán, Nayarit, and Tamaulipas. So, could it be that there are some Mexicans producing tequila, oops, that stuff that is grown, distilled, bottled, and produced precisely like tequila, but outside of these regions, is being served??

Horrors upon horrors!!!!

Finally, if someone is "tainting" the alcohol, what are they using? Water?

If not water, what then? Cheaper, bootleg or home made alcohol? Why?? So the 19 & 20 y/o kids get really, really, really, really drunk doing shots? Then what? Steal their AI wristband?

 

[Phydeaux]

But Mommy and Daddy are trying to deflect the fact that they are bad parents by providing no parental guidance and cut their kids loose at an all-you-can-drink bar, so there must be some nefarious conspiracy!

Agreed.

Kurt

Sure looks, sounds, feels and smells a lot like deflection, and misplaced guilt. And, they're seeking $$$$ from the AI. As if the sensationalism wasn't enough.

 

[geist1223]

Actually there are three producers of sparkling wine in the USA that as a result of the Treaty of Versailles legally authorized to call their product Champagne. The only one I remember off the top of my elderly head is Kobel.

 

[davidvel]

Uh huh, like the evidence that she & her brother consumed multiple shots of liquor within a short period of time, ended up with 0.25 BAC, completed inebriated, then dove into the shallow end of a pool. That's manslaughter these days, is it? Her broken clavicle is some of the evidence of manslaughter, huh? And the golf ball sized lump on her brothers head also, right?

Good grief.

Where exactly did you find evidence that "she & her brother ... dove into the shallow end of a pool"?

[hashtag removed. we don't use them here.]

 

[Phydeaux]

Where exactly did you find evidence that "she & her brother ... dove into the shallow end of a pool"?

It's called common sense and abductive reasoning.

 

[pedro47]

It is better to stop the practice of the selling of illegal liquor than to lose their tourist business.
Good move Mexico.

 

[Maple_Leaf]

It's the Feds doing the crackdown. They raided the lobby bar at the Iberostar Paraiso Maya on the Riviera Maya and the infamous Fat Tuesday bar in Cancun, seizing 334 litres of illegal liquor. They traced the illegal liquor back to a local manufacturer and seized 40,000 litres there, citing "bad manufacturing practices." Interestingly, they didn't mention anything about not paying taxes, but the raid was conducted by Cofepris, so it was a Ministry of Health and not a revenue raid.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/cancun-playa-bars-shut-after-inspections/

 

[mikenk]

It is certainly good that Mexican authorities are cracking down on bars and resorts that use "bootleg" alcohol. I would like them to publish the names of the establishments that do that; while I am quite sure little (but some) of the "bootleg" booze is tainted, I am also quite confident that most tainted liquor would be bootleg - so I would just as soon not frequent those places.

It would also seem logical that most of the potential culprits will be AI resorts and bars with very liberal happy hour policies as that could dramatically affect their bottom line. While I won't ever do AI (too expensive / lower food quality / inflexibility), I must admit I have been drawn into some of the cheap bars while women shop; so far so good - but might rethink that a bit. With that said, I can't imagine anyone assuming or implying that the majority of Mexican resorts are guilty by implication; unfortunately, that is what our journalists love to do.

Mike

 

[PStreet1]

After years and years of owning property in and living in Mexico, I've finally gotten it through my head that, as one of our attorneys said, "In Mexico, corruption is everywhere, top to bottom; you must understand that. Americans have difficulty dealing with that fact and simply do not know what is necessary/required to be done."

He is correct: we learn (it seems like every year at least) some new area we had no idea about. That doesn't mean I don't love Mexico, nor does it mean I'm never going back. It does mean that something like illegal alcohol probably is quite widespread, and is probably totally beyond the government's ability to control--and if they do try control it, there will be bribes paid, and some will continue to serve illegal alcohol; some won't be allowed to, and some will suffer harsh "control efforts."

Americans will continue to be disappointed if they believe that American ideas of what should be legal will apply or that American ideas of how enforcement should be accomplished will apply. The Mexican government certainly doesn't want people dropping dead in the bars, and neither do the owners of the bars--and that isn't happening. As others have said, looking at this case logically makes it pretty clear that illegal alcohol wasn't the cause of death.

 

[davidvel]

It's called common sense and abductive reasoning.

Sounds more like a guess. Common sense and abductive reasoning are not evidence of anything. The fact that it could have happened does not mean that it did. Reasoning does not ignore the multiple, independent reports by travelers of being intoxicated to the state of incapacitation after only 1 or 2 drinks.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

It is certainly good that Mexican authorities are cracking down on bars and resorts that use "bootleg" alcohol. I would like them to publish the names of the establishments that do that; while I am quite sure little (but some) of the "bootleg" booze is tainted, I am also quite confident that most tainted liquor would be bootleg - so I would just as soon not frequent those places.

It would also seem logical that most of the potential culprits will be AI resorts and bars with very liberal happy hour policies as that could dramatically affect their bottom line. While I won't ever do AI (too expensive / lower food quality / inflexibility), I must admit I have been drawn into some of the cheap bars while women shop; so far so good - but might rethink that a bit. With that said, I can't imagine anyone assuming or implying that the majority of Mexican resorts are guilty by implication; unfortunately, that is what our journalists love to do.

Mike

Mike - I appreciate the well thought out logic in your post .
Thank you

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

After years and years of owning property in and living in Mexico, I've finally gotten it through my head that, as one of our attorneys said, "In Mexico, corruption is everywhere, top to bottom; you must understand that. Americans have difficulty dealing with that fact and simply do not know what is necessary/required to be done."

He is correct: we learn (it seems like every year at least) some new area we had no idea about. That doesn't mean I don't love Mexico, nor does it mean I'm never going back. It does mean that something like illegal alcohol probably is quite widespread, and is probably totally beyond the government's ability to control--and if they do try control it, there will be bribes paid, and some will continue to serve illegal alcohol; some won't be allowed to, and some will suffer harsh "control efforts."

Americans will continue to be disappointed if they believe that American ideas of what should be legal will apply or that American ideas of how enforcement should be accomplished will apply. The Mexican government certainly doesn't want people dropping dead in the bars, and neither do the owners of the bars--and that isn't happening. As others have said, looking at this case logically makes it pretty clear that illegal alcohol wasn't the cause of death.

Thank you PStreet! - for the insight of someone who spends much of the year LIVING in Mexico
( from what I understand from this & prior posts . )

*******

A few years ago I saw a Documentary on President Plutarco Calle (1877-1945) president 1924-1928
his (bloody )battle was with the church - the other power structure in that period of Mexican history
the doc. done by his great grandaughter .

In it - his predecessor - President Alvaro Obregon - a general in the revolution - was quoted as saying
" the people love me because they know I only have one arm - and they know I can steal less because of this "

*******
Assuming everyplace you travel to is like home - is a mistake .
Staying home out of fear - is a mistake .

******
In Mexico & elsewhere I choose to eat "street food " and so do most Mexicans .
You trust what you see - as I am sure it is not inspected or taxed .

 

[VacationForever]

Sounds more like a guess. Common sense and abductive reasoning are not evidence of anything. The fact that it could have happened does not mean that it did. Reasoning does not ignore the multiple, independent reports by travelers of being intoxicated to the state of incapacitation after only 1 or 2 drinks.

If you are referring to the sister-brother incident, the brother admitted doing many shots and lost count of how many.

 

[PigsDad]

Sounds more like a guess. Common sense and abductive reasoning are not evidence of anything. The fact that it could have happened does not mean that it did.

I agree, but after reading about what happened at that resort, logic tends to favor the "dive into the shallow end" hypothesis. The injuries, number of drinks the brother admitted/remembered them drinking (it was more than 2 when they started doing multiple shots!), amount of alcohol in the kids' systems, other guests accounts, etc.

Reasoning does not ignore the multiple, independent reports by travelers of being intoxicated to the state of incapacitation after only 1 or 2 drinks.

You mean all those "reports" that seemingly magically came out immediately after the incident where the girl died?

And again, there has not been a single verified report of "tainted" or "poisoned" alcohol that I have seen in all of these "reports". You would think that if this was really going on, it would be simple to sample and test the alcohol in question to prove it was tainted -- but that has never happened!

Kurt

 

[Phydeaux]

Sounds more like a guess. Common sense and abductive reasoning are not evidence of anything. The fact that it could have happened does not mean that it did. Reasoning does not ignore the multiple, independent reports by travelers of being intoxicated to the state of incapacitation after only 1 or 2 drinks.

Seriously? Are you joking, or do honestly live your life as you're writing?

The brother recalls having "at least 6 shots". Their BAC was 0.25. That's not drunk, it's inebriated.

You're implying something nefarious or sinister happened other than the simple point that these two youngsters drank themselves to the point of inebriated, and dove into the shallow end. Since you're so convinced of otherwise, what's your theory? While you're at it, please provide your theory on how the brother acquired a golf ball sized bump in the middle of his forehead, and how the deceased broke her clavicle. It may help to tell us how many fractured clavicles you've treated thus far, and their causes.