Points Credit Pool - What Happens to Cancelled Pooled Points?

[bnoble]

So, if a reservation made with pooled points is cancelled, and those (cancelled) pooled points return as Regular Use points, then (perhaps) those Regular Use points have ARP

First, as many others have noted, the return of them as Regular UY points is an error. However, based on first-hand reports here (that you can read if you read the Big Thread on pool problems): If they do get added to a UY as Regular Points, they are added unbound to any particular deed or CWA contract. Since they are not tied to any particular deed/contract, the VCs will not use them for ARP (there is no "home resort"/"home club" to which they are tied.)

the NEW policy modifies that and now says that the cancelled credit pooled points return as Regular Use points

You are mis-reading the Supplement. Others have tried to point this out, you refuse to believe them, and I'm not going to bother to try to explain it beyond: "You are wrong here."

So if I book a 2017 reservation with 2019 pooled points, and then cancel, would the points come back as 2017 regular use points? Or would they come back as regular use year points in the year the pooled points derived from, such as 2019?

Neither. They are supposed to return as Pool Credits with the expiration date they had when they were originally pooled. Sometimes they return as something else, and that is an error on Wyndham's part.

 

[wjappraise]

First, as many others have noted, the return of them as Regular UY points is an error. However, based on first-hand reports here (that you can read if you read the Big Thread on pool problems): If they do get added to a UY as Regular Points, they are added unbound to any particular deed or CWA contract. Since they are not tied to any particular deed/contract, the VCs will not use them for ARP (there is no "home resort"/"home club" to which they are tied.)


You are mis-reading the Supplement. Others have tried to point this out, you refuse to believe them, and I'm not going to bother to try to explain it beyond: "You are wrong here."


Neither. They are supposed to return as Pool Credits with the expiration date they had when they were originally pooled. Sometimes they return as something else, and that is an error on Wyndham's part.

While I agree with you, the actions of Wyndham do support dhemery's contention. All of my experiences post-policy change have been that the cancelled points, do not return to the Credit Pool, but return to the current use year. While that does not mean that is their policy, or their intention, it is the de facto reality of the action, at least from my frame of reference. I would hope you are correct, and that in time, Wyndham will correct this, but the list of items for them to fix is growing and does NOT appear to be resulting in any fixes.

 

[ecwinch]

While I agree with you, the actions of Wyndham do support dhemery's contention. All of my experiences post-policy change have been that the cancelled points, do not return to the Credit Pool, but return to the current use year. While that does not mean that is their policy, or their intention, it is the de facto reality of the action, at least from my frame of reference. I would hope you are correct, and that in time, Wyndham will correct this, but the list of items for them to fix is growing and does NOT appear to be resulting in any fixes.

All of my recent experiences is that cancelled points return to the Credit Pool (if they came from there). I did experience a period after the change where this was not true, but not in the past six months or so.

 

[bnoble]

All of my recent experiences is that cancelled points return to the Credit Pool (if they came from there).

But, even if they didn't, the OP wants to use them for ARP. That's not going to work based on everything people have reported so far.

 

[ecwinch]

But, even if they didn't, the OP wants to use them for ARP. That's not going to work based on everything people have reported so far.

Yes, as you noted in your other post, any cancellations in the months after the glitch resulted in them going into the current UY, and being "unbound".

This conversation got a little murky when we brought in what happened then. I was more responding to the post previous to mine, which would have been completely clear if I had quoted it.

 

[Ty1on]

This is the quote from the Wyndham website, which I have previously provided a link to.

The sentence is, "Beginning August 4, 2015, reservations that are cancelled in accordance with the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Cancellation Policy will now have points returned as Regular Use Year Points and will no longer be referred to as Cancelled Reservation Points."

I am a lawyer, like to think I am pretty good at interpreting contractual language, and I don't see any way that the above can be read as indicating that cancelled reservations have their points returned to the credit pool (that's just not the case). They specifically state return to credit pool was the OLD policy which is modified by the NEW policy (by the sentence above).

Not trying to be argumentative, but I don't want to further confuse other readers - It is clear that the CURRENT policy is that cancelled credit pooled points NO LONGER return to the credit pool.

You are citing an update as policy. The update gives a very high level view of the change, the policy goes into the nuts and bolts. Cancelled points go back to their pre-reservation state. If they were pooled, they go back to pool.

 

[paxsarah]

You are citing an update as policy. The update gives a very high level view of the change, the policy goes into the nuts and bolts. Cancelled points go back to their pre-reservation state. If they were pooled, they go back to pool.

He's actually misreading the update, which I think actually does correctly state the policy. The directory supplement pdf OP linked upthread states the new (8/15) cancelled reservation policy in a brief paragraph, then lists a bunch of page numbers with specific updates related to the headers on those pages (e.g. "Renting Points," "Points Credit Pool," etc.). OP was incorrectly reading these headers as old policy that was being superseded by the initial paragraph. In fact, the entirety of the PDF supplement states the new policy, including the headers that come after the initial paragraph, and the page numbers are references to where to find the old policy information in the full 2014-15 directory.

Edit: snark removal

 

[dhemery]

I have experience with post-rule change credit pool cancellations. In the first instance (before Wyndham realigned my use years), the reservation was for an early 2017 dates, and the points returned to regular use year, expiring 3/31/2017 which was very disappointing as the points were likely going to be wasted as I had no more need for reservations in that time frame. The second instance (after Wyndham realigned my use years), the reservation was for an early 2017 dates, and the points returned to regular use year, expiring 12/31/2017, which is still a bit disappointing, given the credit pool points should have expired in 2019.

I know it is a small sample size, but it appears that Credit Pool points when cancelled go into the current use year, with the earliest expiration date. And, those points are NOT eligible to placed back into the Credit Pool, nor used for Maintenance Fee payments (I tried).

Best explanation I've seen - Thank you for responding.

I'm on hold with a VC now to see what they say (the usual 'hold time is greater than 10 mins' - I held over two hours before I got through last time). I trust what I see on TUG more than what the VCs tell me, but worth a shot (on hold for 25 mins now. . .)

Thank You!

 

[wjappraise]

Best explanation I've seen - Thank you for responding.

I'm on hold with a VC now to see what they say (the usual 'hold time is greater than 10 mins' - I held over two hours before I got through last time). I trust what I see on TUG more than what the VCs tell me, but worth a shot (on hold for 25 mins now. . .)

Thank You!

Hope your call goes well. If as others claim that cancelled credit pool points should go back to credit pool bucket and the VC verifies that and moves them for you, please post the name of the VC so I can ask for that person when I call. Thanks.


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[dhemery]

Hope your call goes well. If as others claim that cancelled credit pool points should go back to credit pool bucket and the VC verifies that and moves them for you, please post the name of the VC so I can ask for that person when I call. Thanks.


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Thanks, and Will Do (if I ever get through) - 35 mins on hold and counting!

 

[dhemery]

Thanks, and Will Do (if I ever get through) - 35 mins on hold and counting!

43 mins on hold now, gotta go, but I'll

Thanks, and Will Do (if I ever get through) - 35 mins on hold and counting!

At 59 minutes they picked up.

According to a VC (sorry I didn't get name, forgot to after holding so long, was about to hang up), the summary is that: Any cancelled reservation (as long as you cancel per Wyndham rules, 15 days) sends points back to where they came from, with the same expiration date they had. (I understand, based on others' experiences, that this doesn't always happen, but at least I now know this is what should happen, and I can call to correct if it doesn't).

So, make a reservation with pooled points, then cancel it, and the points go back to the pool with their original (3-year) expiration date. Make a reservation with regular use points, then cancel it, and the points go back to the use year they came from with usual end-of-year (or quarter depending on what you own) expiration date AND THE RETURNED POINTS STILL HAVE ARP (that's a nice bonus).

Thanks to all who responded, much appreciated!!

 

[dhemery]

It looks like when you cancel a reservation that was made with pooled points that the (cancelled) pooled points go back to Regular Use Year Points (as opposed to going back to the credit pool).

Question 1: if I pool 2019 points, make a 2017 reservation with them, and then cancel the 2017 reservation, do the (cancelled) pooled points used for the 2017 reservation go back to 2019 Regular Use points (I think so, but want to be sure they won't go to 2017 Regular Use points).

Question 2: If the cancelled pool points in the above example do go back to 2019 Regular Use points, is there still ARP re those points (I doubt it, but have no idea)?

Thank You Much for any replies, Tuggers!

My above questions are based on the below which is from the Wyndham website:


Cancelled Reservations


Beginning August 4, 2015, reservations that are cancelled in accordance with the CLUB WYNDHAM Plus Cancellation Policy will now have points returned as Regular Use Year Points and will no longer be referred to as Cancelled Reservation Points. Any reference to Cancelled Reservation Points in the CLUB

WYNDHAM Plus Member’s Directory will only apply to Cancelled Reservation Points received prior to August 4, 2015.*

This change will affect the following:

Points Credit Pool (on page 341):• If you have to cancel a reservation, the Pool Credits will be returned to the Points Credit Pool with the original expiration date.

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To save some from reading through this entire post, following is the answer I got from a Wyndham VC:

Summary: Any cancelled reservation (as long as you cancel per Wyndham rules, 15 days) sends points back to where they came from, with the same expiration date they had. (I understand, based on others' experiences, that this doesn't always happen, but at least I now know this is what should happen, and I can call to correct if it doesn't).

So, make a reservation with pooled points, then cancel it, and the points go back to the pool with their original (3-year) expiration date. Make a reservation with regular use points, then cancel it, and the points go back to the use year they came from with usual end-of-year (or quarter depending on what you own) expiration date AND THE RETURNED POINTS STILL HAVE ARP (that's a nice bonus).

Thanks to all who responded, much appreciated!!

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[Ty1on]

You are clearly an attorney, because you provided us with the answer that we had already given you and you debated.

When shall we expect your bill?

 

[dhemery]

You are clearly an attorney, because you provided us with the answer that we had already given you and you debated.

When shall we expect your bill?

You are clearly a dope - keep your money to buy some manners with, rude-boy.

 

[Ty1on]

You are clearly a dope - keep your money to buy some manners with, rude-boy.

I see you have the sense of humor of an attorney, too. Vindicates my intense dislike of attorneys as arrogant pinheads.

You can't read a simple policy WITH HELP FROM OTHERS HERE and have to call to ask, and I'm the dope.

 

[uscav8r]

The quoted language says that the OLD policy was for cancelled credit pool points to return to the credit pool, BUT the NEW policy modifies that and now says that the cancelled credit pooled points return as Regular Use points - my question is what year do they return to as Regular Use points (in my example, would the cancelled pooled points return as Regular Use points in year 2017 or in year 2019?).

Thank you for the response!

You've got it backwards.


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[uscav8r]

I would love some advice from those with actual/first-hand knowledge/experience re cancelling pooled points post-rule change.

Basic question is now (as opposed to before the rule change, which I do have experience with), when you make a reservation with pooled points, and then cancel, where do those pooled points go (the supplement states they are returned as regular use points, but does not say what year. So if I book a 2017 reservation with 2019 pooled points, and then cancel, would the points come back as 2017 regular use points? Or would they come back as regular use year points in the year the pooled points derived from, such as 2019?

Thanks Again!

You've gotten experiential advice but seem to have ignored it.

I will give you my experience.

Before the rule change, one trick to "accelerate" future year's points or pooled credits into the current year (to deposit to RCI for instance) was to make a near-term reservation and then cancel it. You would then have cancelled reservation points good until the end of the current Use Year. You could deposit them to RCI, which you can't do with pooled credits. It was a "conversion" method.

After the rule change, you could not do this method. I have cancelled pooled credits and they have returned to the pool for me to use again. If I am worried about retaining the ability to deposit to RCI in a given year, I need to be careful not to credit pool those points as there is no way to convert them back to Regular Use Year points anymore.

Last week I cancelled a booking and asked how the points came back. I was told they were pooled credits vice regular Use Year.

You may be a lawyer, but you read too much into a non-contractual directory. It is possible to have a seeming inconsistency if you don't read it in the proper context.

The clause to which you keeping referring refers specifically to "cancelled reservation points." This was a distinction that existed prior to the change, but is now an obsolete term. Also, the underlying assumption of that clause is that the booking was made with regular Use Year points.

After much confusion in the early days after this change went into effect, Wyndham had to add clarifying language to the pooled credits section that you now see. They obviously did not make a corresponding clarification to the other clause.

If anything, Wyndham should remove all reference to the change (which occurred almost 15 months ago) and the obsolete term since they are obviously causing confusion.

Oh, and your cancelled reservation, by policy, "should" result in credits returning to the pool with a 2019 expiration. If they do not, it is due to ongoing IT issues that others who have experienced this situation have already mentioned.

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[bnoble]

You are clearly a dope - keep your money to buy some manners with, rude-boy.

As others put it: we tried to help you, and we're the dopes?

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Richelle]

As others put it: we tried to help you, and we're the dopes?

Welcome to my ignore list.

I did not know there was an ignore list. Thank you for making my week.


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[wjappraise]

I did not know there was an ignore list. Thank you for making my week.


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For many the ignore list is really "I can dish it out but can't take it" list. Petulant posters like to "punish" others when they lose a battle of wits.


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[Richelle]

For many the ignore list is really "I can dish it out but can't take it" list. Petulant posters like to "punish" others when they lose a battle of wits.


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It was a joke. I really haven't run across anyone that annoys me enough to block them. I like that I can use it for people who get off on being disrespectful or rude. Or ones who like to start drama. Aka, the trolls. Usually I find if I don't "dish it out" I don't have to take it. Simple as that. For the most part, you give respect, you get it. For the others, as he put it, welcome to my ignore list. Thankfully, I have not needed to use it.


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[schiff1997]

I credit pooled 400,000 points on Jan 3, made 300,000 worth of reservations, cancelled them Jan 6, all points are now returned again to the credit pool with the same 2020 expire date, as well as HK credits so there was no need for me to call

 

[wjappraise]

It was a joke. I really haven't run across anyone that annoys me enough to block them. I like that I can use it for people who get off on being disrespectful or rude. Or ones who like to start drama. Aka, the trolls. Usually I find if I don't "dish it out" I don't have to take it. Simple as that. For the most part, you give respect, you get it. For the others, as he put it, welcome to my ignore list. Thankfully, I have not needed to use it.


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Well said.


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[Sandi Bo]

I credit pooled 400,000 points on Jan 3, made 300,000 worth of reservations, cancelled them Jan 6, all points are now returned again to the credit pool with the same 2020 expire date, as well as HK credits so there was no need for me to call

Good that people are keeping a close eye on this.

It usually works as it should (that's my overall take on this). But it doesn't always. Makes it harder for an (already struggling) IT team to figure out the issues. I suspect it has to do with VC's not correctly credit pooling points when you first credit pool (and thus the additional red tape we're seeing these days when people want to credit pool). I credit pooled in early December, booked and cancelled, and the points came back to my current use year as regular use year points. I'm also seeing it work correctly other times (as you have noted, as well). I do think (much) more often than not that it is working.

As a side note - the process today to credit pool does not seem to be implemented consistently. Depends on who answers the phone. Imagine that? Wyndham not being consistent?

You have to be able to duplicate an issue before you can fix it. This is where Wyndham seems to fall short. Bandaids rarely work. In my 35+ years of IT experience wishful thinking just doesn't seem to work out - ever.

 

[uscav8r]

...
As a side note - the process today to credit pool does not seem to be implemented consistently. Depends on who answers the phone. Imagine that? Wyndham not being consistent?

You have to be able to duplicate an issue before you can fix it. This is where Wyndham seems to fall short. Bandaids rarely work. In my 35+ years of IT experience wishful thinking just doesn't seem to work out - ever.

How do you mean credit pooling (I assume you mean the initial "deposit" action) is implemented inconsistently?

Every time I have done it, I call and request X amount of next year's points be pooled. They charge my credit card and we are done.

Is there something different or inconsistent for those Gold/Platinum VIPs who can pool current Year points?



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