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[Poll added - see post 1] Can resorts increase the VALUE of their product???

How much would you pay for an elite AI mega-resort being built in your favorite area?


  • Total voters
    97

mikenk

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The sales team can offer something newer and better to each group of successive purchasers, but the only way they can restrict the rights of resale buyers is by writing it into the original sales contract. And when they do that, they are reduciing the value of what they are selling. One of the big selling points of a timeshare is the ability to pass it along to your heirs or to sell it when you no longer wish to use it.

I think you are exactly right, the developer can and should offer things better that the customer wants; he should also restrict the rights of resale by writing that into the contract. However, that does not mean that you can not pass it to your heirs or transfer it on a personal basis; it depends on the way the contract is written.

If I was a developer, there is no way I would allow the fickle resale market in this struggling and panicking industry dictate the price and value I bring to my customer. I would ensure my contract protects my investment and the value of my customer.
 

dan_hoog

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Okay, so you read the fine print. You find that a key portion of your 'deed' is non sellable or highly restricted. This reduces resales and also spook new purchasers who will even less believe the asset and investment talk (mostly junk). However, the resell able bit IS a key part of the value proposition.

IMO, the answer is simple. Address systemic and mitigate market issues (rofr) to stop downward spiral of resale prices. Reverse, not exaggerate, the problem. Clearly rofr can support the market as sellers won't list below what they think rofr would be. Even a 10% rofr policy would get the 1$ units off the market. Alternatively, at least accept easy deed backs for a small fee - with a resale support program. This would keep many pcc like units off the market.

All my opinion.


I think you are exactly right, the developer can and should offer things better that the customer wants; he should also restrict the rights of resale by writing that into the contract. However, that does not mean that you can not pass it to your heirs or transfer it on a personal basis; it depends on the way the contract is written.

If I was a developer, there is no way I would allow the fickle resale market in this struggling and panicking industry dictate the price and value I bring to my customer. I would ensure my contract protects my investment and the value of my customer.
 
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mikenk

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Okay, so you read the fine print. You find that a key portion of your 'deed' is non sellable or highly restricted. This reduces resales and also spook new purchasers who will even less believe the asset and investment talk (mostly junk). However, the resell able bit IS a key part of the value proposition.

But what if the fine print really doesn't say that. What the owner really wants is flexibility of transferring the ownership of their value as they wish. There is an assumption that can only be done through a brokered sale. Is that really true? A little creativity can go a long way in writing contracts to protect both the developer and the owner from the fickleness of the general resale market - a goal both should want.
 

dan_hoog

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Mike,

My point isn't a recommendation. The more you try to restrict transfers, the lower resales will likely get. This makes the developer problem easier and harder at the same time, in roughly equal measure, I'd guess. If a buyer doesn't know about resale it's moot. If they do, devaluing resales isn't a good thing for the developer in the long run.
 

mikenk

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Mike,

My point isn't a recommendation. The more you try to restrict transfers, the lower resales will likely get. This makes the developer problem easier and harder at the same time, in roughly equal measure, I'd guess. If a buyer doesn't know about resale it's moot. If they do, devaluing resales isn't a good thing for the developer in the long run.

Dan,
I am afraid we are talking past each other. Realistically, as a developer or a timeshare owner of a specific property, neither of us really care about the general resale market. We care about the value and retaining the value of what we own. As such, we wouldn't want to restrict transfers at all, but we would want to restrict public sales if our values were eroded by the overall industry. As the developer or timeshare owner, I would never want my property showing up as a firesale on ebay.

i think we need a couple of glasses of wine and a chalkboard for exploring possibilities.

Mike
 
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sally13

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In deep thoughts..

I have come to think...I will not stop sharing,because Jim Ricks tells me to go away!!..Or because the big....' D' tells us that nobody wants an upscale expierience,on there vacation!!

I believe..that many folks of ALL price entry points would like more bang for thier buck!..

What Mike said about creativity is KEY!...

Imagine..A( specialized),future,where like minded vacationers can connect...

If your (bag) is to go on tequila factory tours and get ripped,with people who ,(quite frankly),enjoy getting ripped ,in A foreign country,and touring,.and this is ones ideal vacation goal...by all means buy into a resort that sponsors this often!!

You buy a resort that is known for having a great following of like individuals....

.This is more then just a club thing..You have A resort that is known for, GREAT offerings ,and THIS is the marketing tape that defines a resort(more or less).

OR..If your thing is Touring castles..Or if you like beach combing and shell collecting,Or if Adrenalan junky things are your fancy.


You see.. THESE are the reinvention spokes of the future timeshare wheel!!

Timeshare MUST bring NEW angles to the table!!

How about Golf resorts that attract golfers,and wine conesuer , preferred resorts!..in wine country!!(spelling..my bad),or spiritual site ,like vacationers....

Resorts MUST push and market ,(better) thier unique qualities!!

THIS is my Ideal future of the timeshare industry..

There presently are swinger ..:eek: ...type resorts that do extremely well.because they are known for this type of thing!!(not my sort of thing ,but to each thier own)

Like people,should vacation with LIKE people!

Even a resort that brings together $1 ebayers!(of course..you would not have to deal with sally there!!)

Heck...the specialization of resorts is just one angle that can be marketed to the public,to maintain loyal ownership.....
 
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DeniseM

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Sally - You just keep saying the same things over, and over, and over. This is no longer a conversation - it's a monologue. Good luck with that.
 

sally13

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Denise',,,

Like plenty here... do not keep saying the same crap over and over??

Just because YOU think others ,,,Quote..(.do NOT want a better vacation expierience)..does not make it so ...How do YOU know what others want??

plenty of lurckers out there.. that may disagree!!
 

DeniseM

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Actually Sally, you accidentally posted the same thing twice, so I deleted the duplicate, and then you apparently deleted the remaining duplicate. I would be happy to restore it for you. Wouldn't want anyone to miss your "thought provoking post."
 

Purefct

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Well, I guess if Sally wants to buy direct for $20,000-100,000 and prevent people from buying resale and having the same privileges as her, and she's perfectly happy when the day comes where she gets $1 or even has to pay a few thousand to stop owning, then she's going to be very happy when she sells.

Me personaly, I prefer to retain value as much as possible and since this is real estate and not a car I prefer programs where we don't get screwed by developers. If that means people buying resale get the same use as I do when buying direct then I'm all for it, especially when that means I get to sell what I bought rather than Sally's preference to lose what she bought.
 

mikenk

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Personally, while it think the topic of this thread is important and interesting, I have not had the fortitude to read much of it. It is too full of misunderstandings of intent and content. Why it has stayed open this long is surprising.

One thing I have learned in my business career is when people start discussing things while firmly entrenched in different paradigms of thinking, the discussions generally go nowhere and easily get personal. I clearly see that on this thread.

Hopefully, for those of you that choose to continue with it, it will get better and more focused. Hope so.

Mike
 

dan_hoog

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Mike,

I mostly agree. I suggest you prevent firesales by keeping up resale values and providing rental pool, formula buybacks (ROFR minimum), etc. This could be done without restricting how sellers and buyers meet.

Regards


Dan,
I am afraid we are talking past each other. Realistically, as a developer or a timeshare owner of a specific property, neither of us really care about the general resale market. We care about the value and retaining the value of what we own. As such, we wouldn't want to restrict transfers at all, but we would want to restrict public sales if our values were eroded by the overall industry. As the developer or timeshare owner, I would never want my property showing up as a firesale on ebay.

i think we need a couple of glasses of wine and a chalkboard for exploring possibilities.

Mike
 

timeos2

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Mike,

I mostly agree. I suggest you prevent firesales by keeping up resale values and providing rental pool, formula buybacks (ROFR minimum), etc. This could be done without restricting how sellers and buyers meet.

Regards

ROFR does nothing to support resale price - min fact it tends to lower it more. But a guaranteed Buy Back price sets a true floor and can be used to support resale values. Few if any Developers have that but if they - or the resorts - were serious about holding up prices then they would offer a guaranteed buy back. ROFR is n0o answer at all and cannot be forced on owners post sale in any case. Buy back can be offered at anytime and would do what you want.
 

Purefct

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I agree ROFR is not as beneficial to owners as it is to developers. I have seen, in the pre recessionary market, where values for unis subject to ROFR held better value. But the developers get all the benefit of ROFR whereas owners still incur expense and fraud risks to advertise, and in this market the ROFR trigger points are far above market price and I suspect nearly every unit subject to ROFR goes back to the developer. Thus, resale buyers don't offer more for the next unit. They just don't buy that resort because they can't get it at market price. This is now a win for the developer and a lose for the owner.
 

Purefct

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I can understand why guaranteed buy back might not work for the developer. In the current market, conditions exist where the developer or HOA could be locked into a price higher than direct sale market value or at least the profit margin is not high enough.

This is why I think guaranteed representation for resale is a much better fit. The developer makes a (proposed) 40% commission, everyone knows there's a market with a floor price, and the developer doesn't carry the inventory nor the maintenance cost while offering the owner units for sale.
 

e.bram

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So far no one has factored in the effect of the seasonal nature of most Tses on their value. Using points to obfuscate this is failing.
 

dan_hoog

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Consistent rofr at a percentage of current retail would raise resale prices. Sporadic bottom fishing probably has no effect, as you suggest.

I was advocating the former. A planned buyback option would probably have a better effect though - as an option.


ROFR does nothing to support resale price - min fact it tends to lower it more. But a guaranteed Buy Back price sets a true floor and can be used to support resale values. Few if any Developers have that but if they - or the resorts - were serious about holding up prices then they would offer a guaranteed buy back. ROFR is n0o answer at all and cannot be forced on owners post sale in any case. Buy back can be offered at anytime and would do what you want.
 

am1

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A percentage of current sales or a dollar amount buyback would not work as it would show the potential retail buyer what they are buying is actually worth. The sales people want the buyers to think it is as an investment that will appreciate in value. A ROFR can be spinned that the developer may pay for the timeshare in the future than what they are currently selling it for.

Any discussion of this needs to include how the developer sees it. As long as people are buying the non transferable perks that is how they will do business even if it eans resale is $0.
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
R. O. F. R. = R. O. F. L.

ROFR can be spinned that the developer may pay for the timeshare in the future than what they are currently selling it for.
The full-freight timeshare sellers like to spin ROFR by telling sales prospects its purpose is to make sure that resale prices won't go "too low."

What the sellers don't bother to mention is that when resale prices do go low -- as in sinking most of the way to zero, as they have done recently -- then the timeshare companies with ROFR no longer buy back any timeshares, period.

So much for the claim that ROFR's purpose is to keep resale prices from going "too low."

ROFR = ROFL. Always has. Always will.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

DeniseM

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Please note that a poll on this topic has been added to the top of this thread. See post #1 for all the details.
 
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