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[Poll added - see post 1] Can resorts increase the VALUE of their product???

How much would you pay for an elite AI mega-resort being built in your favorite area?


  • Total voters
    97

Purefct

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I have personally experianced ROFR when buying just this past month. I can assure you, deveoplers are exercising ROFR. But it is most certainly not helping to maintain a floor on the resale pricing. And the owner loses out by getting hosed by spending all the money to get the unit sold, they get hammered on the price, then the Dev picks up the unit on ROFR for a song. Most buyers do not decide to offer more for another unit. They eiother don't buy because they got conned into making an offer which didn't result in a purchase, or they buy at a different resort which doesn't have ROFR.

I agree during the sales presentation owners are assured that because ROFR can be exercised, this will support the resale value of the units. but the owners are never told the reality - the Dev is the beneficiary of ROFR and not owners.
 

Purefct

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Please note that a poll on this topic has been added to the top of this thread. See post #1 for all the details.

Should have included a selection "I'm not interested - I'm tired of getting scamed by developers" and a few more like that! I don't even know what AI is, but after 7 years in timeshares I'm unlikely to ever buy direct again and I'm very selective in buying resale. It's not the "$1" deal I'm looking for, it's a timeshare program offering me units, resorts, and locations I'm interested in with flexibility and minimal punishment for being a resale buyer.

I was buying Marriott for a while but now that they have moved to the points I will probably sell all but one of my units. WVR is not good resale since the Maint has risen and points requirements at newer resorts can effectively cost way too much, and you can never be VIP as a resale buyer. Another company I'm not allowed to name presented some awesome deals for a time but we have parted ways due to ... so at the moment about the only preferred company is SVO, as long as I can buy at the resorts with mandatory star options.

So what companies do you all still like, and why? It would be good to reflect on the positive aspects of resorts and developers, compare how their direct sale pricing has held up both in relation to direct vs resale, and their resale % vs other resort resale %. (%= resale price divided by direct price)
 

DeniseM

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AI = all inclusive

I wondered why you voted both "yes" and "no" on the poll! :D
 
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mikenk

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The way the survey is written, why would anyone pay money for the top three without quantified benefits and with the realization that if they wait, that same resort can be had for very little?

Actually why would anyone even pay a buck on ebay to obtain obligatory MF's without knowing and analyzing what the same unit can be rented for on the open market and quantifying the real benefit / costs over time?

However, would someone pay XX$ for yearly dream vacations if they could pay it back within 3 or 4 years through dramatically reduced expenses that they would pay otherwise, if they didn't have obligatory MF's to mortgage the future, and if they couldn't get it elsewhere now or in the future?

I believe the question is really much more involved than your simple poll can possibly reflect.

Mike
 
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sally13

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allright... ok..

first off this silly poll is skewed from the get-go..1st..YOU CAN VOTE AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WISH???

How can THAT be scientific??

2nd ..If the goal of the poll, is to find out how many folks would want an upscale vacation, and would be willing to pay for it,why would it have any meaning, being in such a place as tug, that is mostly full of career bargain shoppers???highly skewed...

I could go on..

But one thing is for sure...Denise is dead wrong.., having stated that,(this upscale expierience,in a top tier resort, is something that you all here, 'DO NOT WANT"..end quote.)(.sooo go away sally..on the back of Jim Ricks... pack your bags.. post )

It looks like about a full 75% of responders ,would (go in ) for this type of expierience..if it were mostly, a decent m-fee, or could be attained at $1 ebayer status..

For your info I did not vote..

What does this little poll tell us..(unscientificly)..

It says most folks DO want that pampering..just do not want to pay for it,,

Hey..nobody likes my.. get LIKE travelers to travel together ,angle, to strengthen an owners ,loyalty to a particular resort??? To keep it profitable,for the good of the fiscal resorts health??
 
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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
No Problem.

YOU CAN VOTE AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WISH
In the real world, you can buy all the timeshares you want. So what's wrong with voting all you want in the TUG-BBS poll ?

My preference is luxury vacation resort accommodations at Motel 6 & Super 8 rates.

But that's just me.

Full Disclosure: I voted just once -- not that big on A-I timeshares.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

bnoble

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How much would you pay for an elite AI mega-resort being built in your favorite area?
You left out the choice I would pick: I'm not interested, because I don't want to tie myself to an AI annually. Perhaps that's the same as "the fees are too high", but usually at most AI's, the MFs are billed whether you go or not, and anyone who uses the unit is charged the AI fee.
 

DeniseM

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first off this silly poll is skewed from the get-go..1st..YOU CAN VOTE AS MANY TIMES AS YOU WISH???

You can't vote as many times as you wish - you can vote ONCE, but you can choose more than one option.

It looks like about a full 75% of responders ,would (go in ) for this type of expierience..if it were mostly, a decent m-fee, or could be attained at $1 ebayer status..

Only 2/22 people (9%) voted that they would pay more than $1 for this dream resort.

8/22 (36%) would be willing to buy it on ebay for $1 - but of course in your scenario, that wouldn't be permitted, because you would not allow resale buyers in your resort.

If the goal of the poll, is to find out how many folks would want an upscale vacation, and would be willing to pay for it,why would it have any meaning, being in such a place as tug, that is mostly full of career bargain shoppers???highly skewed...

Sally - I should have known that even when presented with a poll.... you would not accept other people's opinions - but thanks for confirming it, anyway.
 
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DeniseM

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You left out the choice I would pick: I'm not interested, because I don't want to tie myself to an AI annually. Perhaps that's the same as "the fees are too high", but usually at most AI's, the MFs are billed whether you go or not, and anyone who uses the unit is charged the AI fee.

Yes - that's the same thing as "the fees are too high."
 

dan_hoog

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I agree for unpredictable ROFR. My point was that a clear policy of ROFR above X% (or a formula buyback plan, which would be much better at any given price point) would increase resale prices above X%. Of course, it would need to be widely known, not a secret value inferred from weak information.

I also agree that ROFR is not an efficient means to do this. However, since some resort chains already have ROFR policies in place, it is a lever they could pull in a hurry if desired.

I have personally experianced ROFR when buying just this past month. I can assure you, deveoplers are exercising ROFR. But it is most certainly not helping to maintain a floor on the resale pricing. And the owner loses out by getting hosed by spending all the money to get the unit sold, they get hammered on the price, then the Dev picks up the unit on ROFR for a song. Most buyers do not decide to offer more for another unit. They eiother don't buy because they got conned into making an offer which didn't result in a purchase, or they buy at a different resort which doesn't have ROFR.

I agree during the sales presentation owners are assured that because ROFR can be exercised, this will support the resale value of the units. but the owners are never told the reality - the Dev is the beneficiary of ROFR and not owners.
 

sally13

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Denise...

sorry I misread the part about voting more then once..even so with your background,even You must see how silly this poll is ..

First again..this is not representative ,of anything other then what a bunch of BARGAIN shoppers might think...If you indeed included ,all the extremely happy timeshare owners overall,...(that would never even think of coming to a site such as this,)you would have a BETTER view,of what people think..To exclude that demographic, is like saying to a bunch of bees..(who here likes or dislikes pollen??)(and THIS would represent what all insects prefer??)

also..the poll asked ,if,people (of the bargain shopper variety) ...WOULD prefer A top tier ,A I ,mega, resort...Why would it have to be all inclusive??why would it HAVE to be Mega??


also again...I DO accept others opinions here,...it is just that OTHERS do not acccept mine,that is the problem..To this I debate ,on the differing views, one might have on the damage $1.ebay sales have on the industry..
 
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bnoble

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If the goal of the poll, is to find out how many folks would want an upscale vacation, and would be willing to pay for it,why would it have any meaning, being in such a place as tug, that is mostly full of career bargain shoppers???
For the record, I'm happy to pay for an all-inclusive sort of experience---and pay a premium for it---from time to time. We stayed at a guest ranch in the Colorado Rockies a couple summers ago and had a great time; it was an AI-style resort, including three meals/day, wine and beer, horseback riding, fly fishing, hiking, etc. etc. There are a few things that had an extra cost (whitewater rafting, silver casting) but very few. They even cleaned and prepped the trout we caught one morning for our breakfast.

It was big bucks. So far, I think it is the most expensive vacation we've ever taken, though I suspect our Alaska cruise on DCL next summer will top it when we add in all the shore excursions, etc. It was also a great vacation. I would like to do it again someday. But I don't want to be *committed* to that every year.
 
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DeniseM

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is ..

First again..this is not representative ,of anything other then what a bunch of BARGAIN shoppers might think...If you indeed included ,all the extremely happy timeshare owners overall,...(that would never even think of coming to a site such as this,)you would have a BETTER view,of what people think

This silly poll is representative of what TUGGERS THINK - I have no way to poll the whole world. However, you are posting on TUG, and it's Tuggers that you keep pounding with the same idea in multiple redundant posts.

BTW - the current poll results show that 2/27 (7.4%) would pay more than $1 for your resort.

:deadhorse:
 
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sally13

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I would think 7.4% ..

of bargain shoppers is a pretty good number,when the folks in this forum ,most likely account for about 5 to 10% of all timeshare using folks in the float.....I did not take part in your poll, because I believe it has mixed meanings to many people,and there for is useless in telling us anything..

anyhow.. I thought my lively debate style was welcomed here??

I did not think that posters to this thread felt ...(pounded on??) I thought they enjoy ,having NEW ideas to debate??If not so... why the almost 10,000 views??was it because they LOVE to be (pounded on??)...

Should I post somewhere else??

I surely do not want to ruin someones day
 

DeniseM

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I said "pounded" because you have a tendency to post the same thing over and over, rather than moving on to new topics. Frankly, it gets old and you aren't making any headway.

There are a multitude of other topics on TUG that you might enjoy getting involved in.
 
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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
I Resemble That Remark.

I said "pounded" because you have a tendancy to post the same thing over and over, rather than moving on to new topics.
Shux, I say the same things over & over -- even when I do move on to new topics.

You know . . .

Buy Timeshares Resale

All Timeshares Are Used-Used-Used

ROFR = ROFL

Nothing That The Timeshare Companies Sell At Full Freight Is Worth The Money

Rescinda-Sinda-Sinda


Etc.​

I don't have a new thought or an original idea in my head.

So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

Passepartout

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Sally13's continual posts remind me of a timeshare presentation that while promised to last 90 minutes, goes on for hours and hours while a parade of liars makes unrealistic arguments trying to wear you down until you give in and sign, just to be allowed to leave.

Problem is, she didn't even offer breakfast, a meal coupon, greens fees or anything to put up with her abuse.

I also would have liked a 'no AI' choice on the poll, but the 'too high fees' was a viable substitute.

Back under my rock.... Jim
 

sally13

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heck..

I have brought more NEW ideas to the threads I have posted on, then most..I feel that this particular thread, has born more ways of looking at things then any other thread that exist on tug...

Indeed, I see YOU and a few others are more interested in shooing the unpopular viewpoint ,down the hall,so to say..

If I am to move on...then the nice folks should stop asking,for my opinion....but until then,I shall defend my viewpoint..and that is this ,(in the long run..$1. ebay resales are TOXIC to the whole timeshare industry..).I am sorry if you can not see it!

There are things in life that are wrong, that are not good for the system itself in many ways...

I enjoy some of these things,such as being able to buy a dodad that if not from china (child slave labor) model,would cost 10 times the fee..

Do I wish these gifts never existed??no..I just view them as a fleeting opportunity,that will most likely be corrected in the future (
one way or another)

I view the present resale market in the same light..

I also look down the road and realize,the industry will not tolerate the bloodletting..

I come here to point out this fact.

What I get is..go away..this is the way it is now..we like it!..

I beg to differ..It is a farmer eating his seed corn..It is NOT a brand new cold fusion form of energy discovery!
 

sally13

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Nice Jim..

Yet one more senseless,,negative,NON thought provoking,unfunny,baseless,information lacking,insulting,infantile,what are you trying to accomplish??? post..

Thanks for that one too...Jim..:)
 

AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
Shux Upon "The Industry."

I view the present resale market in the same light..

I also look down the road and realize,the industry will not tolerate the bloodletting.
The timeshare "industry" -- i.e., the companies in business to build timeshare resorts & sell'm at full freight for big bux -- has nothing to say about the resale market, nor is there anything they can do about it.

Not only that, the timeshare companies created the resale market.

I can still hear the soothing words of the silver-tongued full-freight timeshare sellers echoing in my mind --

Your Timeshare Is Valuable Deeded Real Estate.
You Can Use It Yourself, Or Exchange It, Or Rent It Out For Cash.
Plus, You Can Bequeath It To Your Children Or Grandchildren.
Or You Can Sell It.

I rest my case.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

DeniseM

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I have brought more NEW ideas to the threads I have posted on, then most..I feel that this particular thread, has born more ways of looking at things then any other thread that exist on tug...

Indeed, I see YOU and a few others are more interested in shooing the unpopular viewpoint ,down the hall,so to say..

If I am to move on...then the nice folks should stop asking,for my opinion....but until then,I shall defend my viewpoint..and that is this ,(in the long run..$1. ebay resales are TOXIC to the whole timeshare industry..).I am sorry if you can not see it!

There are things in life that are wrong, that are not good for the system itself in many ways...

I enjoy some of these things,such as being able to buy a dodad that if not from china (child slave labor) model,would cost 10 times the fee..

Do I wish these gifts never existed??no..I just view them as a fleeting opportunity,that will most likely be corrected in the future (
one way or another)

I view the present resale market in the same light..

I also look down the road and realize,the industry will not tolerate the bloodletting..

I come here to point out this fact.

What I get is..go away..this is the way it is now..we like it!..

I beg to differ..It is a farmer eating his seed corn..It is NOT a brand new cold fusion form of energy discovery!

BUT - You have already said everything in this post a dozen times - why do you feel compelled to post the same thing over and over? You're like a broken record!

No matter how strongly YOU feel about something, repeating yourself isn't likely to win people over - on the contrary, it gets tiresome.
 
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AwayWeGo

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[triennial - points]
I Resemble That Remark.

You're like a broken record!
Whoa !

That hits close to home.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 

sally13

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Denise..

Many must still want to listen to the record...or me defending it..anyhow..

I do bring new ideas to the table...seems nobody wants to debate these..they just would like to debate the original premise of the thread..

I have been patient ,as I am sure most of you have ,as well..(well almost most)

I really can not see why some ,just come to poke at sally ,any way that can get one in..

I guess it goes with the territory of having a contrairion viewpoint.. around here,it is onesided thinking,and that is ok..

If you seek the record to stop playing,stop challenging it ,and admit to yourself,that I have a right to my opinion..If you think the world is flat,this is ok with me..
Time will tell in the end,(if the resale contract owner loses) ,,It will not happen overnight.

I could be wrong..but I would not bet against me..

As the small changes add up ,I will surely pop in to point them out..for you all..It will be a tiny payment for all the abuse that tug has dished my way...:)

each time someone paraphraises a Sally post,and asks why..I am compelled to answer..................to not try and explain ,would be rude,and I am not here to be that.
 
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glypnirsgirl

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I am absolutely fascinated by this thread.

It seems to me that the problem is one of perspective rather than of reality. When doing voir dire, I usually make this analogy. There is a big red ball - it is 12 inches in diameter. It is being dropped from a 12 story window. The person dropping the ball sees it and says, "the ball got smaller after it was dropped." The person on the ground says, "the ball got bigger after it was dropped." Neither is correct, what is correct is that the ball stayed the same size, but each is telling the truth from their own perspective.

So, to weigh in to the fray. There are several truths out there, "all timeshares are used after they have been stayed in one time" "someone had to pay retail in order for there to be a resale."

In my mind, there are some people who will look to rescind their purchase after buying at full retail and discovering that they really cannot afford the purchase. For that small percentage of people, the retail seller is competing with ebay. For everyone else, the retail seller is competing with the other retail sellers. Wyndham vs. Marriott vs. DVC vs. Silverleaf, etc.

Ebay has little influence over the retail sales price of the same units because the market is not perfect. Not everyone that finds a timeshare seller is going to look on ebay. And of those that know of the existence of ebay, some are going to believe that there is value in the retail price.

I recently sent one of my employees to Hawaii to stay at the Westin. I booked a two bedroom and he brought another couple with him. The other couple found and booked an appointment for a Wyndham sales presentation. My employee told him to talk to me before doing anything. He didn't call before the presentation. He bought at full retail. I asked Richard to tell John to call me so that he could rescind. He didn't call then either. He is perfectly happy with his full retail purchase.

I liken it to some people wanting to have a Gucci purse, some are happy with Coach, some will buy at Target. Some will buy the used Gucci purse at the consignment shop, used. They are all purses. Some have more perceived value than others.

But the thing that I think that is being missed by a small minority here is, "resale would not exist if all retail purchasers were happy with their purchase." The resale market is just that, it is the market for USED timeshares. As Alan points out, all timeshares are used. So the person that is paying retail is still paying for a used timeshare. And there is the rub. Even the person purchasing full retail is purchasing a used timeshare.

And if everyone were happy, they would not sell their used timeshare.

I agree that it is silly to think that devaluing the resale price will prop up the value of the retail price. I know when I am purchasing a car, one of the criteria that I use in my purchase decision is retention of value.

elaine
 

DeniseM

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Many must still want to listen to the record...or me defending it..anyhow..

Really? Looking back over the last two pages of this thread, it looks like the thread has gone in a different direction.

I do bring new ideas to the table...seems nobody wants to debate these..they just would like to debate the original premise of the thread..

That's a good point - you can't make people discuss or think about ideas that don't interest them - no matter how many times you repeat them.
 
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