Putting Timeshares into a Trust

[BocaBoy]

Boca, from here on out all properties and all points will be in the 4xxx account and all will proceed as usual (I hope). However, as all these changes were happening in 2016 (it takes months to get this all done), I turned some weeks in our name, not in the trust, into destination points. Before we started changing everything all points were co-mingled. I could combine points from trust and non-trust properties seamlessly.

However, once we started to make changes they ripped the 2xxx and 4xxx accounts apart, moved all properties (eventually) into 4xxx, moved some points into the 4xxx account and going forward everything will be in 4xxx.

In the ripping apart, 8000 points derived from properties in our names, not the trusts, were left behind in the 2xxx account. There seems to be an incredibly long list of rules that they read to me that govern bankability and transferability of these points that are in the now closed-down 2xxx account. Basically if you transfer you can't ever bank, and if you ever bank you can't transfer.

I will try customer Advocacy, thanks for the tip. I mostly wanted to give others the heads up as they move properties into trusts that life will be much simpler if you do not have any points associated with the properties, as they will get "left behind" and become a headache. Not an insurmountable problem, but a stupid headache.

Good luck with Customer Advocacy. They might be able to help. It seems the problem is that someone was looking at moving the points to your other account as a "transfer", which makes no sense. However, I now understand that this will not be an ongoing problem in future years, which is one big positive.

 

[BocaBoy]

For a moment reading all this I am panicking. We have 4 TS and now I am wondering what should I do in case my Dh dies or I die or we both die and my child will inherit all these 4 TS. I am sure if my child does well in life as an adult he will take them all but how about is this is not the case? We are young family so any advice, link will be appreciated it. Thanks

As Denise has said many times in various threads, no one can be forced to inherit a timeshare. Therefore, if your child does not want any or all of your timeshares and the estate cannot sell them, he can disclaim that part of his inheritance and be free of its obligations. With a Marriott timeshare, however, either the estate or the heir can probably sell it and realize some cash for it. You should probably make sure that your wills allow the executor to sell the timeshares if the heirs do not want them.

 

[DavidnRobin]

IMO - Setting up a Trust is the relatively easy part, Funding the Trust is the part that takes effort. Setting up the Trust is done by an Attorney (cost dependent on complexities of the Trust), however Funding needs to be done by Trustees. Most TS are not worthy of putting in Trust, not only because of their generally low (negative) value relative to the estate, but also the hassle involved (part of Funding the Trust). I am going to keep mine out of Trust for now (a few have value), and then possible amend Trust later (and go through Funding process which involves changing the deeds into the Trust name).

btw, Retirement accounts have their own beneficiary distributions, and are listed on the Schedule of Assets in the Trust documents, but is not part of Trust.

 

[BocaBoy]

Most TS are not worthy of putting in Trust, not only because of their generally low (negative) value relative to the estate, but also the hassle involved (part of Funding the Trust).

The relatively low value of the timeshares is generally not a reason for not doing a trust. A trust is designed to smooth the passing of assets and save a lot of hassle, such as probate in multiple states.

 

[Former Cruiser]

I'm coming into this discussion late, but did I read if you don't put a timeshare in your trust and your timeshare is in another state you'll have to go through probate in that state for that asset?

 

[joybeckerley1]

Have any TUGgers placed their timeshares into a trust? We did this a little while ago and I've noticed some odd(?) stuff.

I was recently informed that I had to fill out an External Transfer From for each of my 3 enrolled weeks (I have a full week and 2 EOY weeks) in order to change the names on the deeds from mine and my husband's, to the name of the trust, which we did. We mailed in the documents, along with our $25 fee for each week. Our enrolled weeks combined are worth 6500 club points at Executive Level.

Yesterday I received an email from Marriott informing me that I needed to accept the terms and conditions in order to confirm the enrollment of my weeks. This was something I hadn't considered - having to re-enroll my weeks. According to the email, there is no charge for this enrollment, it shows up as $0.00 (I assume because the weeks were already enrolled and our club dues have been paid already for 2017). However, they are showing me twice the number of points for my EOY weeks as before (as tho they were full weeks), so now my total points value for my 3 weeks is listed as 9275 points (still Executive Level).

After I clicked on the link in the email to approve my enrollment, I've been reading the terms and there's nothing new or strange. As you know, Marriott upped the number of points to be Executive Level from 6500 to 7000, but we were grandfathered-in and maintained our Executive Level status after they made this change. However, now it looks like they are evaluating our weeks at 9275 points. Is this a mistake? Or do you think Marriott is increasing our points value, unlikely as that may seem, so that we would maintain Executive Level? Before I call Marriott I thought I'd throw this out there to TUG and see if anyone experienced anything similar.

 

[joybeckerley1]

I am not sure what an EOY is but as I understand it if your Marriott properties are not in a Trust then you heirs can not use the destinations points associated with the properties they may inherit.......It took me awhile to get all my deeds and the paperwork for Marriott to have everything in the same name and into the trust

 

[BocaBoy]

I am not sure what an EOY is but as I understand it if your Marriott properties are not in a Trust then your heirs can not use the destinations points associated with the properties they may inherit.......It took me awhile to get all my deeds and the paperwork for Marriott to have everything in the same name and into the trust

EOY is every other year. And if one inherits a timeshare the heir can indeed enroll the week if it was either enrolled or eligible to be enrolled before. I don't think it automatically stays enrolled, however, so another enrollment fee is likely due from the heir, which would be another advantage of having the weeks in a trust.

 

[BocaBoy]

I'm coming into this discussion late, but did I read if you don't put a timeshare in your trust and your timeshare is in another state you'll have to go through probate in that state for that asset?

Generally yes. It is often called "ancillary probate."

 

[bogey21]

Icydog, setting up a trust starts with a Trust document. That is the expensive part.

I wrote my will using LegalZoom.com. I think it cost me $35 about 15 years ago. I haven't looked but I wouldn't be surprised if you can do a Trust using them too.

George

PS I just casually looked at the LegalZoom website. It says $249 for a Trust.

 

[tjk144]

A bit off topic, but not entirely. My wife and I own a timeshare in another state that has worked out very well for us. We rent it out much more often than we use it. Over the 20+ years that we have owned it, our gross rental income has well exceeded our maintenance fees and the cumulative net income over the years has even exceeded our investment. Thus I do not mind passing it on to our children. However, as mentioned by OP and others, probate costs can be prohibitive. I was planning to add our four children to the deed WROS. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable posters in this discussion. Are there any drawbacks to adding our children to the deed rather than setting up a trust?

 

[BocaBoy]

A bit off topic, but not entirely. My wife and I own a timeshare in another state that has worked out very well for us. We rent it out much more often than we use it. Over the 20+ years that we have owned it, our gross rental income has well exceeded our maintenance fees and the cumulative net income over the years has even exceeded our investment. Thus I do not mind passing it on to our children. However, as mentioned by OP and others, probate costs can be prohibitive. I was planning to add our four children to the deed WROS. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable posters in this discussion. Are there any drawbacks to adding our children to the deed rather than setting up a trust?

That certainly works for passing it on to your children outside of probate.

 

[pwrshift]

That certainly works for passing it on to your children outside of probate.

Interesting thread.

I'm Canadian and own 6 platinum Marriotts...Chairman's level of DC points but have never used them that way. Each of 4 TSs has my name and 1 of my 4 heirs so the each own one as survivor when I die. The first two I bought (MBP and MMC) just have my name.

I haven't looked into setting up trusts and probably should, but you might have different ideas about that.

Each of my heirs say they still want ownership if I pass, but suspect the two in my name only might be sold by the executors (my heirs).

Any suggestions?

Brian

 

[BocaBoy]

Interesting thread.

I'm Canadian and own 6 platinum Marriotts...Chairman's level of DC points but have never used them that way. Each of 4 TSs has my name and 1 of my 4 heirs so the each own one as survivor when I die. The first two I bought (MBP and MMC) just have my name.

I haven't looked into setting up trusts and probably should, but you might have different ideas about that.

Each of my heirs say they still want ownership if I pass, but suspect the two in my name only might be sold by the executors (my heirs).

Any suggestions?

Brian

You should probably make sure that your will gives the executor the power to sell those two timeshares with the cash coming to the estate if the heirs do not want them. Otherwise those two weeks might have to go through probate and go to the heirs, who would then have to sell the weeks themselves. I am not a wills/trusts attorney, so I suggest you consult one. I also do not know what if any, impact your Canadian citizenship may have. You might also want to consider a trust for all of the timeshare weeks if your heirs get along well with each other, which I think could preserve your DC Chairman's Club level for your heirs.

 

[elleny76]

As Denise has said many times in various threads, no one can be forced to inherit a timeshare. Therefore, if your child does not want any or all of your timeshares and the estate cannot sell them, he can disclaim that part of his inheritance and be free of its obligations. With a Marriott timeshare, however, either the estate or the heir can probably sell it and realize some cash for it. You should probably make sure that your wills allow the executor to sell the timeshares if the heirs do not want them.

Thanks so much! (and thanks to Denise)

 

[NboroGirl]

But shouldn't it (the email I received) still show that the total point value of my weeks is 6500 points, not 9275? And if they are only worth 6500, I wonder if my status level will be downgraded to Select, which would kind of suck.

Shouldn't you still grandfather in at Executive though? If not, I would be on the horn to Marriott asking why. Moving your ownership in to a trust should not impact this status.

Well, after a month and 5 phone calls to Marriott Owner Services, I am FINALLY able to log into my Owner account (sheesh) again. And what do I see at the top of the page? I am no longer Executive. I've been downgraded to Select. All because my moved my timeshares, worth 6500 points, into a trust. I put in a call to Marriott and am waiting to hear back. I hope this was a mistake and that I am still grandfathered in.

 

[NboroGirl]

Shouldn't you still grandfather in at Executive though? If not, I would be on the horn to Marriott asking why. Moving your ownership in to a trust should not impact this status.

Apparently not. I received this response from Marriott today, and they misspelled 'due':

Regarding your status level, our records show that you did a deed change and do to the deed change where you did put your ownership in a trust we cannot honor the Executive status. The grandfather Executive status was only for the previous number and deed.

Argh.

 

[Fasttr]

Apparently not. I received this response from Marriott today, and they misspelled 'due':

Regarding your status level, our records show that you did a deed change and do to the deed change where you did put your ownership in a trust we cannot honor the Executive status. The grandfather Executive status was only for the previous number and deed.

Argh.

Yikes....that hurts!!

Wonder if SueDonJ can verify that via her MVC contact....and if it is indeed so, that needs to be highlighted in bold lettering in the Points FAQ Sticky in some fashion as a cautionary tale for any grandfathered folks who may contemplate such a deeding change at any point in the future.

 

[NboroGirl]

Now I know why Marriott gave me a new Owner ID. I got a new one for me, and a new one for the trust. I can understand why the trust got a new one because it didn't exist before. But I didn't understand why I couldn't just keep my old one or why I needed to get a new one. But I guess by doing this, Marriott can claim I'm a new owner and therefore no longer can be grandfathered in the new point level system.

 

[BocaBoy]

Apparently not. I received this response from Marriott today, and they misspelled 'due':

Regarding your status level, our records show that you did a deed change and do to the deed change where you did put your ownership in a trust we cannot honor the Executive status. The grandfather Executive status was only for the previous number and deed.

Argh.

Assuming that your trust is the normal type of revocable trust, it legally is treated for every purpose I know of as your own property. It usually would even use your social security number and all tax items are yours individually. For example, such a trust does not file its own tax return and you can deduct property taxes on your personal tax return. This might all be different for someone who sets up an irrevocable trust, because those are definitely a separate entity apart from the grantor, but I do not believe that is your situation. It sounds like someone at MVCI does not understand the nature of a revocable trust such as yours. Have you talked to customer Advocacy?

As a side point, I noticed on the title insurance policies for our three timeshares that the title insurance stays in force without even having to make any change to the policy if ownership is put in such a trust.

Don't give up on this issue.

 

[SueDonJ]

Yikes....that hurts!!

Wonder if SueDonJ can verify that via her MVC contact....and if it is indeed so, that needs to be highlighted in bold lettering in the Points FAQ Sticky in some fashion as a cautionary tale for any grandfathered folks who may contemplate such a deeding change at any point in the future.

I'm really hesitant to put anything that applies to unique or irregular issues into the FAQ, especially something like this ownership-in-a-trust issue that may differ according to state laws. But I've added this blurb to the Reselling / Transferring Ownership ... section on Page 2:

"Any changes to the total number of DC Points in a Member's account will impact the Status Tier and associated usage/benefits of that account. Such changes include buying/selling of Trust Points and/or Enrolled Weeks, and placing ownership into a trust. It's strongly suggested that you contact Owner Modifications at 800-443-4391 or owner.modifications@vacationclub.com in advance if you have questions."

Nborogirl, I've closed your other thread so that you don't have to search for responses in both that one and this one. I'm glad other TUGgers who are familiar with trust-related issues are helping you as much as they can. Thanks for keeping the rest of us informed, and good luck.

 

[mas]

I'm not sure I can help you specifically, but I had a somewhat similar problem though it didn't involve dealing with trusts.

My situation was as follows: My online account was fine, it listed all my weeks and trust points, however my wife's account did not list one of the weeks we own and consequently was at a lower status level than me. I mentioned this to a sales person while we were at Beach Place and she told me to call owner services and ask for 'owner modification'. I did this and spent about 20 minutes with a CSR who checked our account and could see that we were indeed both listed on the deeds to all our weeks but for some reason my wife's account was missing one. He spent a few minutes supposedly 'linking' the missing week to her account. After I hung up I logged on to her account and was disappointed to find that the week was still missing. I gave it a week to see if maybe the situation would correct itself--it didn't.

I called again and asked for the the owner modification CSR and informed the new CSR of my problem and attempts at solving it. He put me on hold, talked to a supervisor and came back and informed me that they would fix the problem but that it would take a couple of days to a week for me to see the change. Well this time, I guess, twice is the charm. After two days, the problem appears fixed and now both accounts read the same with all weeks and points showing up in my and my wife's account.

 

[NboroGirl]

GOOD NEWS I hope! (fingers crossed)

I called the Directors of Customer Advocacy at MVCI Headquarters, as was suggested in my other post (that's since been locked) and explained my two problems. They weren't much help. All they did was give me the phone number for Owner Services.

The person I spoke with at OS was very very helpful, or seemed to be. I will probably not know for sure until tomorrow, but...

He talked to IT to get my user account problems resolved (I am skeptical because I keep getting told by IT that the problem is fixed, yet I still can't log in, so time will tell if they ever figure out the problem.)

Regarding the Trust and my Owner Benefit Level being downgraded, the OS rep said it didn't sound right. We've been owners since 2003 and we enrolled our weeks at the very beginning, and the whole reason for grandfathering owners with 6500-6999 points at Executive was to not punish these owners when Marriott changed the rules. I wholeheartedly agreed. I told him I was given a new Owner ID and wondered if that was the point of issuing new owner IDs instead of letting me keep my old one, so that I could be downgraded and he said no, he doubted that. (I must be getting cynical in my old age.) He told me he just spoke to a customer earlier today who was also downgraded when she asked to have her owner ID be the primary one on the account since her husband died - her owner ID hadn't changed but she still got downgraded. Anyway, he put me on hold, talked to his supervisor who talked to her supervisor and they saw that I purchased the properties in 2003 and 2004 and are working with Business Support to restore my status.

I haven't officially declared victory, but I am feeling hopeful that these problems will be resolved soon. I'll post an update when I find out for sure.

 

[BocaBoy]

GOOD NEWS I hope! (fingers crossed)

I called the Directors of Customer Advocacy at MVCI Headquarters, as was suggested in my other post (that's since been locked) and explained my two problems. They weren't much help. All they did was give me the phone number for Owner Services.

The person I spoke with at OS was very very helpful, or seemed to be. I will probably not know for sure until tomorrow, but...

He talked to IT to get my user account problems resolved (I am skeptical because I keep getting told by IT that the problem is fixed, yet I still can't log in, so time will tell if they ever figure out the problem.)

Regarding the Trust and my Owner Benefit Level being downgraded, the OS rep said it didn't sound right. We've been owners since 2003 and we enrolled our weeks at the very beginning, and the whole reason for grandfathering owners with 6500-6999 points at Executive was to not punish these owners when Marriott changed the rules. I wholeheartedly agreed. I told him I was given a new Owner ID and wondered if that was the point of issuing new owner IDs instead of letting me keep my old one, so that I could be downgraded and he said no, he doubted that. (I must be getting cynical in my old age.) He told me he just spoke to a customer earlier today who was also downgraded when she asked to have her owner ID be the primary one on the account since her husband died - her owner ID hadn't changed but she still got downgraded. Anyway, he put me on hold, talked to his supervisor who talked to her supervisor and they saw that I purchased the properties in 2003 and 2004 and are working with Business Support to restore my status.

I haven't officially declared victory, but I am feeling hopeful that these problems will be resolved soon. I'll post an update when I find out for sure.

I am very disappointed that Customer Advocacy did not help you. My experience with them has always been good and I thought they would understand your issue. Glad to hear, however, that your status may be restored soon, as it should be. I will be very interested to hear the outcome.

 

[NboroGirl]

I guess I was wrong to be optimistic that my problem would be resolved. It's been a week and nothing. I called a few days ago and spoke to the owner's rep I was dealing with last week, and he had no news. Meanwhile, I STILL can't log into my owner's account and my status still has not been changed back from Select to Executive.

It's like this: