Rental Gone Bad / DO NOT USE BROKER [Merged]

[MattnTricia]

I have rented a lot of timeshares over the year both as the renter and rentee. In all my transactions I have never had an issue.

Unfortunately due to a computer glitch with a major timeshare company a reservation was cancelled that I had rented out. As an FYI it wasn't RCI or II and it is a unit I own. The customer had paid a deposit a few weeks before and I immediately refunded this deposit as soon as I realized their was an issue. In addition to this it was still 4-5 months prior to the reservation.

Unfortunately I could not replace the unit as it was a holiday week and the size of the unit made it impossible to replace.

In this instance the rentee is a 3rd party broker, which i have never used before, and now they are coming after me for a large sum for costs associated with replacing the rental that was canceled. They are threatening a lawyer and small claims court to recoup what they feel they are owed.

There was a contract stating they could do this but I did not agree to their mitigation solution.

I live in CA and this company is in Utah.

Any suggestions on how to proceed as I do not want to just cough up over $1000 while the company in question still makes a full commision on the rental for a mistake that was not my doing.

 

[CO skier]

I have rented a lot of timeshares over the year both as the renter and rentee. In all my transactions I have never had an issue.

Unfortunately due to a computer glitch with a major timeshare company a reservation was cancelled that I had rented out. As an FYI it wasn't RCI or II and it is a unit I own. The customer had paid a deposit a few weeks before and I immediately refunded this deposit as soon as I realized their was an issue. In addition to this it was still 4-5 months prior to the reservation.

Unfortunately I could not replace the unit as it was a holiday week and the size of the unit made it impossible to replace.

In this instance the rentee is a 3rd party broker, which i have never used before, and now they are coming after me for a large sum for costs associated with replacing the rental that was canceled. They are threatening a lawyer and small claims court to recoup what they feel they are owed.

There was a contract stating they could do this but I did not agree to their mitigation solution.

I live in CA and this company is in Utah.

Any suggestions on how to proceed as I do not want to just cough up over $1000 while the company in question still makes a full commision on the rental for a mistake that was not my doing.

Sorry, but this seems like a one-sided story. What does the contract stipulate?

You are obligated to perform according to the contract you signed. A "computer glitch with a major timeshare company" is no excuse on your part.

 

[Jan M.]

I have rented a lot of timeshares over the year both as the renter and rentee. In all my transactions I have never had an issue.

Unfortunately due to a computer glitch with a major timeshare company a reservation was cancelled that I had rented out. As an FYI it wasn't RCI or II and it is a unit I own. The customer had paid a deposit a few weeks before and I immediately refunded this deposit as soon as I realized their was an issue. In addition to this it was still 4-5 months prior to the reservation.

Unfortunately I could not replace the unit as it was a holiday week and the size of the unit made it impossible to replace.

In this instance the rentee is a 3rd party broker, which i have never used before, and now they are coming after me for a large sum for costs associated with replacing the rental that was canceled. They are threatening a lawyer and small claims court to recoup what they feel they are owed.

There was a contract stating they could do this but I did not agree to their mitigation solution.

I live in CA and this company is in Utah.

Any suggestions on how to proceed as I do not want to just cough up over $1000 while the company in question still makes a full commision on the rental for a mistake that was not my doing.

Did you list this week with the broker and have a contract or agreement with them or did they purchase this week from you through TUG, eBay, Redweek, Craigslist or some other site?

Apparently their renter had only paid a deposit not the full amount of the rental?

I've seen a lot of the big sellers who list on eBay put a disclaimer in their listings stating that sometimes reservations are lost and should that happen the buyers money will be refunded. Some say they will reimburse the buyer $100 over what they paid for the inconvenience.

I recently found out that many owners who rent will not accept third party rentals when they sell stays on places like eBay. Some object to a broker making money off them and others just don't want the hassle. Brokers don't want to give out the renter's email or phone number and I can understand them not wanting to potentially lose their customer but if anything should happen the owner has no way to get in contact with the renter. This happened recently to a friend of mine who had a broker buy Christmas week , December 23-30, at Wyndham Bonnet Creek that he had listed on eBay. The broker's renter decided to stay home for Christmas Day and leave the day after. The renter never called Bonnet Creek to say he would be missing the first three days of his reservation. If you fail to notify the resort they can and will cancel your reservation. We aren't sure if the renter called the broker who was away for Christmas or the broker found out by checking with the renter to make sure everything was okay with their stay. So the day after Christmas when the renter is driving from Canada to Orlando and is about 6 hours out the broker calls in a panic. My friend was able to get the resort to find the renter something for the rest of the week but it took a good two hours of time spent on the phone to get everything settled. We don't know how much the broker made off this rental but we are guessing the renter paid $1100-$1200 for the week and missed the first 3 days of the stay, arriving late on the 4th day. We are still shaking our heads over that!

Here is the best part of that story. Wyndham actually still had the reservation and unit in the renters name but had put someone else in the unit. My friend verified this. That must have been an interesting talk with the manager. As long as they found the renter something he decided not to make an issue of it. He is a better person than I am, I would have been on the phone to owner care.

 

[DeniseM]

I'm guessing that you rented to StayPC, and that perhaps Wyndham canceled your reservation?

 

[theo]

<snip> I recently found out that many owners who rent will not accept third party rentals when they sell stays on places like eBay. Some object to a broker making money off them and others just don't want the hassle. <snip>

It's relatively rare that we rent out any of our (fixed) weeks, but I would never consider using any unnecessary "middleman" agents, brokers, or any other extraneous third party entities to handle a rental for us, irrespective of the rental advertising venue that we may have chosen.

I certainly would not mind paying a commission. My issue and concern is that I simply cannot rely upon a third party "middleman" to be both knowledgeable and readily available, if any issues should arise. Keeping control of the rental myself also insures that the tenant has clear, complete and precise advance information and instructions regarding such issues as late arrival (...call and let the resort know in advance), occupancy limits (...yes, even babies do count), one vehicle limit, where applicable (...and no trailers or RV's are allowed on the premises, per management policy) and other such relevant and potentially important details that a middleman likely just doesn't know anything at all about.

If I have to end up addressing those issues myself anyhow, I certainly don't need or want any "middleman" involved, commission or not. YMMV.

 

[DeniseM]

I agree that the owner is caught in a difficult situation here, but I don't think it's the renter's fault for using a contract.

Most of the management companies will straighten out a reservation problem if they are at fault, but Wyndham has been out of control lately, and that is why I suspect that they are the company referenced above.

It would be helpful to have more specific details about exactly how the reservation was cancelled.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

In my mind if the reservation was canceled by no fault of the owner then the refund should be all that is owed. The owner had a unit that was verified. If the management company took the unit away then the owner no longer has any ability to rent out the unit.

This statement is in all my rental agreements and should cover this situation although it may not since the unit is no longer "owned" by the owner. I may modify it to make it more broad but you never want to put that a refund is owed under any stipulation. You just make exceptions as they come up.

The Landlord is not responsible for any inconvenience or interruption of services due to repairs, improvements or for any other reason beyond the Landlord’s control.

 

[DeniseM]

In my mind if the reservation was canceled by no fault of the owner then the refund should be all that is owed.

1) The OP voluntarily signed a contract that had different terms, so it's not just a matter of opinion.

2) We don't know if the reservation was cancelled through no fault of the owner - for instance, was he trying to upgrade a Wyndham reservation and lost it in the process?

 

[djyamyam]

I ran into a similar situation a couple years ago with a Christmas week reservation at one of my home Wyndham resorts. The reservation got cancelled and I had rented it out using a rental agreement with a 3rd party broker company. I was never able to get the reservation back from Wyndham. Because we had a contract to provide accommodations for a pre-agreed price, I was obligated to provide comparable accommodations. I wound up shelling out an additional couple $Ks to rent a condo that I found on VRBO.

Did I want to? Absolutely not! Did I scream like heck to Wyndham? Absolutely! Bottom line is that I had a contract with another party. The fact that the management company that looks after my resort or that this broker earned a commission for finding a renter for my unit is irrelevant to them - as it should be. Their contract is with me and that means my obligation. Same thing applies in my mind for your situation. Sometimes, you're fortunate to get off the hook, but the obligation remains. I'm not saying you have to like it because it's a crappy situation but suck it up, it's a cost of doing business if you're in the rental game.

As an aside, I've dealt with the same Utah company a number of times and I would say they are above board, fair to deal with and have no hesitation dealing with them. I also have no doubt that they will work for for the best interest of their client and vice versa if their rentor screwed something up that adversely affected me.

 

[bizaro86]

I can see the renter's perspective on this too. If someone had bought flights based on a confirmation, a refund when prices have gone up still leaves them with potentially material costs.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I'd also like to understand why the reservation was cancelled. Although it really doesn't matter if the contract states renter is obligated to pay for replacement. I've used a number of 3rd party brokers, including StayPC who i think are excellent, and never had a problem with any of them but I make sure they're taking all the risk, with upfront payment and I also don't sign anyone else's agreement.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

1) The OP voluntarily signed a contract that had different terms, so it's not just a matter of opinion.

2) We don't know if the reservation was cancelled through no fault of the owner - for instance, was he trying to upgrade a Wyndham reservation and lost it in the process?

I agree and I would certainly feel obligated to make it right. One thing that would make me uncomfortable in this situation is the 3rd party broker. Are they padding the replacement price with commission? It's likely but that is who the OP contracted with.

I don't allow subletting on my rentals. I want to know who I am renting to but I've never had a broker follow through. The closest I came was a tugger taking my last minute rental listing and trying to rent it out to another tugger like it was their own. That was weird.

 

[am1]

Here is the best part of that story. Wyndham actually still had the reservation and unit in the renters name but had put someone else in the unit. My friend verified this. That must have been an interesting talk with the manager. As long as they found the renter something he decided not to make an issue of it. He is a better person than I am, I would have been on the phone to owner care.

Owner care would not care. Even reservations I called the resort to inform that I would be checking in late they still did not want to honor.

 

[Jan M.]

Owner care would not care. Even reservations I called the resort to inform that I would be checking in late they still did not want to honor.

They must really have a hate on for you! I'd add lol but it really isn't funny. Did you have any overlapping reservations or some other issue?

"For late arrivals,please notify the resort so that they may provide further check-in information. For arrivals later than 48 hours after the scheduled check-in without notification, the reservation may be cancelled without notification." This is copied and pasted directly from Wyndham's confirmation letters.

 

[Quilter]

I'm trying to figure out this thread. Is this a regular problem with StayPC or Wyndham?

Just wondering because I did my first transaction with StayPC

 

[DeniseM]

I have had excellent service from StayPC. Wyndham has been a loose cannon for 6 mos.

 

[vacationhopeful]

I have had excellent service from StayPC. Wyndham has been a loose cannon for 6 mos.

Actually, I had serious problems with Wyndham very early last year. A female supervisor was getting great delight and enjoyment with the NEW issue on overlapping reservation .. she was laughing at my plight which cost me a few thousand dollars. And she was top supervisor for this "new policy" for Wyndham ... again, vaguely written rule, implemented with no warnings ... she just was giggling with glee.

I decided to consult with an appropriate Witch Doctor ... to aid her in future karma. I can ONLY hope the old adage of "What goes around, comes around" is true.

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

I'm guessing that you rented to StayPC, and that perhaps Wyndham canceled your reservation?

What makes you think it was "Wyndham"? Look at OP's ownerships as listed. It has to be a Hilton reservation.

I do rent our my weeks to third party brokers. But I do not sometimes like their aggressive tactics. Brokers are there to make money of from my ownerships, but they are not willing to listen to you in genuine cases where a "glitch" can happen. Glitch can also happen with the "View" or "dates". I rented out a 10 night reservation to a broker, but when I went to the reservation next day, it was actually for 9 nights. I was ready to reduce the rate by one night, but the broker wanted something else for "inconvenience" as now they had to book the additional night through the resort's website in retail. Broker got aggressive with me after taking many many weeks from me in the past and making money. That broker is no longer getting any of my weeks.

OP should "out" the broker. It is not just the question of "what is listed in the contract" as much as it is also about "willingness" to be "kind" to the owners who supply the inventory to these brokers and broker business model exist as a result of the owners.

 

[DeniseM]

I was just guessing that it was Wyndham, because Wyndham has been a mess lately. Hopefully, the OP will come back and give us more details.

 

[MattnTricia]

Due to the matter being unresolved I would prefer to stay vague as to the company in question and the Timeshare COmpany. I will say it is not Wyndham though.

I had a reservation for a specific size that this particular resort only has a couple of and due to their extremely rare nature once the 9 month booking window hits all availability for holidays is gone typically within days if not hours in some cases. Because it was a holiday there was no way to make up the large size of this unit in any way outside of putting them at a different resort which would not have been acceptable to me or the renter.

The company in question has had numerous computer issues recently related to their computer switch.

In this case the reservation was canceled - "via computer" according to the company at my request. Considering I did not and would not have done this even accidentally considering the week was already rented and guest certificate was issued. . As an FYI this is not the first time this has happened to me with this company. The previous time I caught it the next day and they were able to help me out. This time however it was several weeks down the road before I realized I had an issue as that was the next time I went in to the account.

I agree with most that I prefer to use my own contract and do not like to use brokers. I provide fair pricing typically much less than other on the rental site and have never had an issue the time or 2 I have used a broker.

There is no question I don't like the situation and have an interest in being fair. However, the rate they got the same unit to mine at "per their negotiation" which I was uninvolved with was well north of $1000 more expensive for the same week and an absolute gouge. I did reach out to the broker to state that their contract states that I would be liable for comparable accommodations except in cases of an "act of god". The term act of god is not spelled out and I explained to them that i have acted in good faith, that the rental was canceled due to no fault of my own, and that I refunded the deposit and communicated the issue a full 4+ months before the rental and well before the final payment was made.

I have also told them that if they really care about being fair they would waive their commision due to the circumstance and that we could discuss what is probably $500 or so they are out of pocket.

My questions at this point are:

1)Anyone have any experience with UTAH based companies suing out of state renters to recoup funds? i have read about their small claims laws and it looks like it would be a massive PITA for them and they would end up being out way more than what they say I owe them just to get a lawyer involved. I am assuming the threat is based more on scaring me to just cave.

2)Is there anything else I should do at this point. I am considering replying back to the broker with a promise that if they follow through that I will use every means in my power to "share my experience" to warn others who rent weeks not to utilize their service.

 

[sjuhawk_jd]

OP,
Based on the info given here, Sorry to see that HGVC cancelled your 3-bedroom reservation at the Lagoon tower (this is my best guess).

Your second step will get you the desired results.

 

[DeniseM]

mattnday - You have been placed in a totally unfair position, but I think your beef is with HGVC, not the company that you sold the rental to.

Remember, that they also have a contractual obligation to their renter, so they are also in a bad position because of HGVC's mistake, and refusal to make it good. Good luck to you!

This situation is typical of the growing disdainful attitude of the timeshare management companies - the management companies are dropping any pretense that they WORK for timeshare owners.

 

[SmithOp]

Without comment, from the HGVC rules:

"Members deemed to be violating the prohibition on using the Club for commercial purposes may have Guest Confirmation requests denied or limited."

"Commercial Use. Accommodations available through the Club are for the personal use and enjoyment of Members, the Members’ immediate family, and guests personally known and acquainted with Members. The Club strictly forbids the use of the Club for commercial purposes of Members or their guests including the use of a confirmed reservation in an Affiliated Resort for any rental, resale or other commercial use (other than an owner’s Home Week). Failure to abide by this restriction may result in cancellation of the applicable reservation(s) (without refund or credit), suspension of Club or Open Season reservation availability, or denial of access to any products or services offered through the Club. Any lease or rental agreement for a Home Week shall be deemed to contain a provision requiring that any sums due to the Club as annual Club Dues or due to the Association as assessments must be deducted from the gross rentals and paid directly to the party for which such sums are owed."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[tschwa2]

So I wonder if this was really a glitch or the start of Hilton enforcing restriction of rentals outside of owners home week if that is the case? You would think if that was the case they would have told the OP what happened and why.

 

[Roydi]

It's relatively rare that we rent out any of our (fixed) weeks, but I would never consider using any unnecessary "middleman" agents, brokers, or any other extraneous third party entities to handle a rental for us, irrespective of the rental advertising venue that we may have chosen.

I certainly would not mind paying a commission. My issue and concern is that I simply cannot rely upon a third party "middleman" to be both knowledgeable and readily available, if any issues should arise. Keeping control of the rental myself also insures that the tenant has clear, complete and precise advance information and instructions regarding such issues as late arrival (...call and let the resort know in advance), occupancy limits (...yes, even babies do count), one vehicle limit, where applicable (...and no trailers or RV's are allowed on the premises, per management policy) and other such relevant and potentially important details that a middleman likely just doesn't know anything at all about.

If I have to end up addressing those issues myself anyhow, I certainly don't need or want any "middleman" involved, commission or not. YMMV.

Hi Theo, I'm looking to lease out my timeshare with Marriott for a Christmas week, and it's the first time doing so. I was considering using a broker to handle all the paperwork. After reading your quote, and some of the other problems mentioned in this forum, I think I've changed my mine, and will attempt to handle this myself. It sounds like you've had a lot experience with this. Can you direct me to a source whereby I might find some templates of a contracts that I might be able to plagiarize. Thanks Roy