The New Club Wyndham Website (General Discussion)

[johnstonga]

Today is the One Month anniversary of the May 19 demise of the old reservation system, .... ie 'the good ole days'.

One would think the basic functions of new system would be working pretty smoothly.
One would be wrong.

I've spent better part of last hour trying to make a simple, no discount/upgrade reservation for September 2017.

System will not process the "auto upgrade" option regardless of which of the two I check.
Then it won't let me Exit the booking .... it goes back to unworkable auto upgrade choice menu.

Yesterday I did succeed for first time to make a res with both a Discount and and Upgrade ... but I need to change the owner name .... and I cannot do it.

There is Nothing about the New site that seems like an improvement to me.
Clearly we owners are the Beta Testers for this site.

I do sympathize for the customer service and call center people.
I've been in their situation. imagine having to deal with angry/mad/frustrated people 8 hours a day every day ... and knowing there's really nothing much you can do to solve the problems...... and all this mess created by decision makers who earn 10+ more than the folks who have to clean it up.
I haven't even bothered to call .... I won't do a 10 minute hold, much less 100 minutes.

This too shall pass ... I hope and pray.

 

[CYRUS2400]

I agree. I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account. There is the temporary inconvenience of the new website mess. But I don't think the new rules reduced the value of a non VIP ownership at all

VIP ownerships are another story altogether.

To date, I have just read TUG and learned. But, to say that rule changes did not impact value to the non-VIP (or VIP Silver) users. Well, they did. Those of us with fewer points, that valued vacation options, used the 3 year pooling process. In my case, I pooled my points EVERY year to maximize my vacation planning flexibility. The points deposit feature is a huge downgrade, a value reducer. Don't suggest that us smaller point holders aren't feeling the pain. I'm forced now to play games like creating 'phantom reservations' to ensure my deposited points get used first. And, those Phantom Reservations take RT's which are in short supply for many users. The search function sucks for all of us. Let's try not to trivialize what has been lost, we've all lost something. I'll not trivialize what the mega-renters have lost, please don't trivialize what us small point users have lost.

 

[markb53]

I agree. I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account. There is the temporary inconvenience of the new website mess. But I don't think the new rules reduced the value of a non VIP ownership at all

VIP ownerships are another story altogether.

I agree as a non VIP owner. I really like that I can now see my available ARP online and book it online. This appears to work although I have gone all the through to the Complete button since I don't want to expend 1 (or I guess 2 when I cancel) of my 3 measly RTs to test to see if I can book. I have a resort that I go to every year (Wyndham Angels Camp) in February and/or March. And to date there is no inventory in Feb, Mar. or the beginning of April. There is inventory in ARP in April. But one day disappears as ARP advances by one day at 12:00 ET each day.

 

[puppymommo]

As a non-VIP owner, I would say we are impacted less than the VIPs. But we are all affected. I agree with the person who said that the loss of the 3 year credit pool is significant to the smaller point owners. It gave us much more flexibility, although in 20 years of ownership I only used it once. The difficulty searching and making reservations impacts us all. It is just a matter of degree. As an under 300k point owner, I only make 1-3 reservations a year. A million point owner making dozens of reservations a year is going to suffer a whole other degree of magnitude with the cumbersome search and reserve process of our "upgraded" website. As CYRUS2400 put it: The search function sucks for all of us.

 

[bnoble]

I don't see that the new rules have changed the value of a non VIP account.

Overall, I think the change from pool to deposit-forward is a slight negative. If deposited points are not used before "original to that year" points, its a bit worse.

 

[markb53]

To date, I have just read TUG and learned. But, to say that rule changes did not impact value to the non-VIP (or VIP Silver) users. Well, they did. Those of us with fewer points, that valued vacation options, used the 3 year pooling process. In my case, I pooled my points EVERY year to maximize my vacation planning flexibility. The points deposit feature is a huge downgrade, a value reducer. Don't suggest that us smaller point holders aren't feeling the pain. I'm forced now to play games like creating 'phantom reservations' to ensure my deposited points get used first. And, those Phantom Reservations take RT's which are in short supply for many users. The search function sucks for all of us. Let's try not to trivialize what has been lost, we've all lost something. I'll not trivialize what the mega-renters have lost, please don't trivialize what us small point users have lost.

Has someone confirmed that you have to make a phantom reservation to preserve the ability to move points forward. For instance, all of my points are in the old Credit Pool. I have have no new regular use year point until January 2019. However I can make an ARP reservation in 2018 because the new system thinks points are points. I get 182k ARP in CWA and if I havn't used it I get it as long as I have points no matter where they are. Has someone tested the deposit points into next year feature. For round numbers let say I have 400k per year and I deposit the 400k into next year, during the first three months of my use year. After doing that I book a 400k reservation for next year, using half my available points. When next rolls around I have this 400k reservation and still have 400k available. Is there any way to know for sure that you wouldn't be able to move those 400k to the following year during the first 3 months of that use year. I don't think anyone could have test that year. And the VC's may not really know. It is possible that knowone knows until someone tries.

 

[CYRUS2400]

Has someone confirmed that you have to make a phantom reservation to preserve the ability to move points forward. For instance, all of my points are in the old Credit Pool. I have have no new regular use year point until January 2019. However I can make an ARP reservation in 2018 because the new system thinks points are points. I get 182k ARP in CWA and if I havn't used it I get it as long as I have points no matter where they are. Has someone tested the deposit points into next year feature. For round numbers let say I have 400k per year and I deposit the 400k into next year, during the first three months of my use year. After doing that I book a 400k reservation for next year, using half my available points. When next rolls around I have this 400k reservation and still have 400k available. Is there any way to know for sure that you wouldn't be able to move those 400k to the following year during the first 3 months of that use year. I don't think anyone could have test that year. And the VC's may not really know. It is possible that knowone knows until someone tries. [/QUOTE

Has someone confirmed that you have to make a phantom reservation to preserve the ability to move points forward. For instance, all of my points are in the old Credit Pool. I have have no new regular use year point until January 2019. However I can make an ARP reservation in 2018 because the new system thinks points are points. I get 182k ARP in CWA and if I havn't used it I get it as long as I have points no matter where they are. Has someone tested the deposit points into next year feature. For round numbers let say I have 400k per year and I deposit the 400k into next year, during the first three months of my use year. After doing that I book a 400k reservation for next year, using half my available points. When next rolls around I have this 400k reservation and still have 400k available. Is there any way to know for sure that you wouldn't be able to move those 400k to the following year during the first 3 months of that use year. I don't think anyone could have test that year. And the VC's may not really know. It is possible that knowone knows until someone tries.

When I asked a couple weeks ago, after several hours on hold/the phone and several 'hold, let me check', I was told that the deposited points are used AFTER regular use points. I'm in the process of testing it, LIVE. I made the phantom reservation for July 2018 using regular 2018 points last weekend. I plan on depositing 2017 points this week into 2018 (I'm barely Silver).....then next month I'll be booking a reservation for May 2018 that will HOPEFULLY use all remaining 2018 regular use year points, all of the deposited points and 450 points that are currently sitting in the credit pool with an expiration date of 12/27/2019. Will see what happens, but, can't report success/failure until mid July 2017.

 

[ronparise]

As a non-VIP owner, I would say we are impacted less than the VIPs. But we are all affected. I agree with the person who said that the loss of the 3 year credit pool is significant to the smaller point owners. It gave us much more flexibility, although in 20 years of ownership I only used it once. The difficulty searching and making reservations impacts us all. It is just a matter of degree. As an under 300k point owner, I only make 1-3 reservations a year. A million point owner making dozens of reservations a year is going to suffer a whole other degree of magnitude with the cumbersome search and reserve process of our "upgraded" website. As CYRUS2400 put it: The search function sucks for all of us.

I wasn't speaking to the website issues at all and I'm not saying the credit pool change isn't a big deal. And I'm not trying to minimize the impact if the new rules on anyone

I'm only speaking to loss of value. If you see value as the number of vacations you can squeeze out of your ownership, a platinum VIP owner has lost half the value of his account, a non VIP owner, not as much. If you define value as the amount of income you can generate from your ownership (as I do) the value of a VIP ownership used to be much more than the value of a non VIP ownership of the same size. Now there is very little difference.

 

[raygo123]

As far as moving points forward, if you deposit the points in November, for the following year, doesn't that make those points expire first? And will they be used first?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk

 

[CYRUS2400]

As far as moving points forward, if you deposit the points in November, for the following year, doesn't that make those points expire first? And will they be used first?

Sent from my RCT6873W42 using Tapatalk

I have 2017 points that I plan on depositing into a future year later this month. I've taken the deposit 'exchange' process through to payment. The deposit options are for use year Jan-2018 to Dec-2018 or use year Jan-2019 to Dec-2019. Unlike with the Credit Pool Process where the date was 3 years from the date I pooled the points, once I make the deposit, those points are ONLY available for reservations in the use year I choose, not before, and they can't be rolled again. I plan on putting the points into 2018. And that means, I must use them for reservations in 2018. I can't use them for a Dec 2017 reservation, they can only be used in 2018. This part has been discussed in other threads and was confirmed in my conversation with a VC. I've asked about which points are used first, Regular Use Year Points or Deposited Points and the VC told me that Deposited use points would be used AFTER Regular Use Year Points were exhausted. This is a REAL negative. But, this is what I was told. So, taking advise of other TUG members, I created a Phantom reservation for some of my 2018 regular use year points so as to force the deposited points be used first when I make a real reservation for May 2018 next month. I'm taking no chances as I plan on losing no points with the new deposit process. And, yes, I do believe that Wyndham is expecting people to lose points in this deposit process due to lack of information.

 

[BellaWyn]

The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.

Remember those Jack-in-box popup toys when you would wind and wind to the music in gleeful anticipation of that moment when the catch would pop, lid would lift wide open, and the goofy clown would jump out? Then, over time the catch would pop and the lid would barely crack open and you had to manually pull open the lid to let the clown come out. Then eventually the clown wouldn't come out at all and you had to dig it out to get it to pop up?

The toy still worked, just "not as well as it should." In the case of the aging toy, our expectations lowered because the toy was aging. But if we went to the store to get a replacement, and the marketing information on the box said "new and enhanced" we would expect the toy to work as well, or better than, the first time we bought one. If it didn't, it would be returned to the merchant who would then return it to the manufacturer. The old, semi-functional toy either got thrown in a corner and went unused, donated to charity or sold in the next yard sale for a penny.

This is a posturing of suggesting we lower our expectations to be satisfied with the semi-functional toy because it still "works" just "not as well as it should" and yet we are still paying full retail for the broken toy. It also infers one represents the perspective of "most owners" when the only current experience is as a non-owner looking through a single owner set of lenses.

My question is: Why is it that we keep getting this repeating suggestion that, because our only current option is to lower expectations, one must adapt to being satisfied with only a sem-functional toy?

Price for the toy has not changed to offset the loss of function. Only the suggestion that our expectations change to adapt and use the broken toy we are now "lucky" to have been given.

What is the underlying motivation that continues to push you to encourage owners to be satisfied with a less functional toy? Surely it goes beyond the posture of "it's their thing." Not enough substance in that to justify the repeating pattern.

 

[khampster]

trying to book out 13 months @ ocean boulevard and have no luck.

it says insufficient CWA governor balance... ?

anyone experiencing the same issues?

 

[Bigrob]

trying to book out 13 months @ ocean boulevard and have no luck.

it says insufficient CWA governor balance... ?

anyone experiencing the same issues?

You probably don't have enough ARP points available to make the full reservation. Try a shorter stay and if it lets you book (don't have to complete it, just trying to check if this is the issue) then that is probably the issue. If you think you should have enough points, there may be some issue with the way the points have "stacked up".

 

[ronparise]

Remember those Jack-in-box popup toys when you would wind and wind to the music in gleeful anticipation of that moment when the catch would pop, lid would lift wide open, and the goofy clown would jump out? Then, over time the catch would pop and the lid would barely crack open and you had to manually pull open the lid to let the clown come out. Then eventually the clown wouldn't come out at all and you had to dig it out to get it to pop up?

The toy still worked, just "not as well as it should." In the case of the aging toy, our expectations lowered because the toy was aging. But if we went to the store to get a replacement, and the marketing information on the box said "new and enhanced" we would expect the toy to work as well, or better than, the first time we bought one. If it didn't, it would be returned to the merchant who would then return it to the manufacturer. The old, semi-functional toy either got thrown in a corner and went unused, donated to charity or sold in the next yard sale for a penny.

This is a posturing of suggesting we lower our expectations to be satisfied with the semi-functional toy because it still "works" just "not as well as it should" and yet we are still paying full retail for the broken toy. It also infers one represents the perspective of "most owners" when the only current experience is as a non-owner looking through a single owner set of lenses.

My question is: Why is it that we keep getting this repeating suggestion that, because our only current option is to lower expectations, one must adapt to being satisfied with only a sem-functional toy?

Price for the toy has not changed to offset the loss of function. Only the suggestion that our expectations change to adapt and use the broken toy we are now "lucky" to have been given.

What is the underlying motivation that continues to push you to encourage owners to be satisfied with a less functional toy? Surely it goes beyond the posture of "it's their thing." Not enough substance in that to justify the repeating pattern.

Agree completely. The website dosent work well or at all for some owners and you shouldn't lower your expectations to accept a less than satisfactory website

 

[Bigrob]

The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!

What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)

No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.

So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.

Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?

 

[vacationhopeful]

<snip>
Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?

Charitable donation to a non-profit ... like for homeless former Wyndham timeshare sales staff?

Actually, the more I think about this "Professional and well tested, 6 years in design & development" reservation system ... it is doing exactly what is expected. Elimination of the private rental market by the owners.... large points owners. Wyndham was in the timeshare "build and sell" business before ... now Wyndham seems to be transitioning MORE into the "Rental" market.

Why spend the corporate profits when you just need to change the reservation rules .... and get BILLIONS of Wyndham points dumped back for FREE into the Wyndham inventory for Extra Holidays rentals?

And I still don't believe the US economy is back to the "hay days" of decade ago.

PS Wyndham: remember, refurbishing resorts costs LOTS of money ... aka Special Assessments would not be paid by YOUR renters. And YOUR rentals will be much harder on resorts than almost any owner... with shorter stays, more guests per unit, more disputed charges and more lawsuits.

 

[ronparise]

The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!

What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)

No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.

So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.

Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?

Call me naive but I believe the website mess to temporary. And of no lasting impact

Wyndham moved from an emphasis on new customer sales to upgrades during the Great Recession. Now they are moving back to a greater emphasis on new customers.

The hook for new sales can still be the discounts. I don't know what they are going to pitch to existing owners unless they do what they do when selling Worldmark. Push the use of points for all your vacation needs, airfare, car rentals etc. You know what they say over there. Spend points and they renew every year, spend cash and it's gone forever.

 

[55plus]

Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?

I don't believe there will be a completely new hook. Sales weasels will continue to lie like they have been since the beginning of timeshares. They'll still talk about renting to pay maintenance fee, cancel & rebook, etc. Wyndham will go after new marks (customers). Like today, most of those who buy don't know about resell. The same goes for the piece of crap website. By the time they realize it's an abortion and very time consuming it'll be too late to rescind.

 

[Sandi Bo]

Anybody with an IT background thing this website mess is temporary?

There are too many significant issues. They took an awfully long time to deliver this mess. I see no evidence they have the skills to fix it.

 

[Sandy VDH]

Temporary yes, in the fact they HAVE to fix it, it is not working consistently and business rules should be enforced and working. for example, well upgrades are a business rules, yet that is not working very well.

Problem is how long is Temporary.

If it took them 7 years to produce this, how long is it going to be to fix it. Honestly I do not know the history of the 7 year development, but I can't image that they just now produced something they have been working on that long. I just think this is the latest version, a version that wasn't abandoned.

 

[happyhopian]

The old Ron was criticized on the WMowners website for being a little too pro wyndham.
I dont think I ever was too critical of the company or the way they managed the club, except for their sales practices.

and the point you make regarding their obligation to manage the trust for OUR benefit, not theirs, Is the point Ive been trying to make here. Whether its true or not I think wyndham can make the case that they have managed the club for the benefit of the owners. At least you will have a difficult task to prove otherwise.

Right now I am working with a non VIP owner to try to extract some value from their ownership under the new rules. Except for difficult searches and the missing inventory at some resorts, I have been able to use the new website.. Points totals are accurate, we paid mf online, and made reservations and added guests... The thing works for me and I think most owners. Not as well as it should, but it works.

I disagree with you on all three points. You are acting different and others have also said the same. Wyndham's failure to perform is in the failure of the new system and their obligations, not anything to do with the rules at this point. Losing points, shutting out owners, using excess inventory for THEIR profit while others have no access and failing to make available inventory available to dues paying members (I have confirmed at two resorts where inventory is available but not in the system. In fact I did a walk up reservation with discount at one resort this past weekend). Finally I too have made well since the conversion. I don't do rentals much but there is one resort I have done a few. two weeks after the conversion I found tons of inventory on line. I booked 12 weeks of inventory. Then I rented 8 weeks of 1 br upgrades to 3br units and as of this week I have rented out all but 1 for a profit of $16,455.

Even though I have found an upside, I am still of the legal opinion that Wyndham is not serving the trust as much as they are intending to serve themselves and their future sales and I feel very confident that if they do not get this resolved, they will find themselves in legal trouble. When acting in a trust capacity the courts expect you to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of the trust. I do not think ANYONE can argue an example where Wyndham has done that. They are not and should not be considered a trust manager but rather a program manager, paid in a for profit environment. The problem for them is that this is NOT the role the have been ascribed.

But hey - that's why Baskin Robbins has so many flavors of ice cream, you don't have to agree and yet I can still be right, as can you.

 

[ilya]

The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!

What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)

No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.

So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.

Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?

Not to mention the ability to have a instant upgrade when there is one available , or for that matter, being able to complete a reservation. I am sure if you bought a $100,000 car and it was not reliable I would say your value was diminished. Anyone who suggest otherwise has a different agenda..

 

[famy27]

The value of all ownerships has been reduced, at least temporarily, by the inability to book reservations using the system (or even by calling in to the VC's, who are hamstrung by the same system.) Let's fact it, not being able to book the reservations you want right now for 2017 stays at National Harbor is ludicrous. It's been over a month since the launch! The inventory should have been readied and testing in the new system multiple times before the site ever went live!

What is the rationale for asserting the value hasn't changed for all owners when:
1. All owners have lost the flexibility to modify a reservation (add a night or subtract a night) - you want to make a change you'll likely lose the reservation.
2. All owners have lost the flexibility of the credit pool
3. Non-VIP owners have seen an increase in costs associated with Reservation Transactions.
4. All owners are stuck with a system that, if possible at all, takes anywhere from 1.5X to 10X to even 100X or more time than the prior system to complete desired transactions
5. All owners are stuck with a VC line where the wait time and ASA (Average Speed to Answer) is measured in hours rather than minutes.
6. All owners are stuck with a system that is so unstable that no one can truly be confident of a) reservations showing in the account being honored; b) points in the account being correct c) ability to transact (add guest name, cancel reservation, etc.) may or may not be available d) availability being shown is accurate (if you can ever find it at all)

No, I am quite certain the value for all owners has diminished. This may not impact the Wyndham sales machine for new marks, but I do believe it will make for a tougher sale to existing owners, which has been a significant portion of sales historically.

So what compensation should be offered to owners as a result of not being able to make reservations due to the failed website rollout? Rhetorical question, as we already know the answer. The issues aren't even being acknowledged. But owners are losing opportunities to make their desired reservations due to the botched system rollout; this cannot reasonably be denied. Obviously if you lose the opportunity to make the reservation you want, and your points expire worthless as a result, this is a real impact to the value of your points.

Since the value of all VIP membership levels has clearly plummeted, what is the new "hook" for sales to try to justify the developer price?

100% on #6. I made a reservation for Thanksgiving weekend at Glacier Canyon the day after the new system went live. I am not the least bit confident of it being honored. I check here every few days to see if anyone has had reservations cancelled on them. All of the stories of revoked upgrades fill me with dread. This is not the normal way that booking a vacation reservation should work. When I make my DVC reservations, I have no concern that they won't be honored. I know that I'll get what's been promised to me. The same cannot be said for Wyndham, and that definitely devalues my ownership.

 

[chapjim]

Call me naive but I believe the website mess to temporary. And of no lasting impact

Wyndham moved from an emphasis on new customer sales to upgrades during the Great Recession. Now they are moving back to a greater emphasis on new customers.

The hook for new sales can still be the discounts. I don't know what they are going to pitch to existing owners unless they do what they do when selling Worldmark. Push the use of points for all your vacation needs, airfare, car rentals etc. You know what they say over there. Spend points and they renew every year, spend cash and it's gone forever.

You mean cash, as in maintenance fees, that allow the points to renew every year? WM sales really uses that nonsense? And gets away with it?

 

[markb53]

Spend points and they renew every year, spend cash and it's gone forever.

I've heard that one plenty of times at a Wyndham "owner updates" I just laugh in their face. I mean I've paid real money that's gone forever for those point. Right I'm going to spend $1500.00 worth of points to a fight to New York. Oh, but they will renew again next year. Not if I don't pay for them they won't. Just too funny. I spent a good part of my life traveling to Renaissance fairs, selling a product that for sure nobody needed for lots of money. You are selling a life style not the specs of what you are selling. I really believe that Wyndham could sell the product without lying about it. I've done probably about 15 owner update since I've been a Wyndham owner. I've had 2 sales people that were being straight with me.