The Westin Nanea Ocean Villas

[DeniseM]

It will be really interesting to find out how Starwood managed to comply with Maui's requirement that the resort be completely self-sufficient, OR, if Maui changed the requirement.

The was the big sticking point with going forward with this resort, so I'm really curious.

 

[JudyS]

...Guess they will have to tackle the 'smell'

So, I looked at the map Denise posted years back, and it looks like there is a sewage treatment plant right next to the resort. Is that correct? Just how bad *is* "the smell"?

 

[DeniseM]

So, I looked at the map Denise posted years back, and it looks like there is a sewage treatment plant right next to the resort. Is that correct? Just how bad *is* "the smell"?

WKORV and WKORV-N are lots 1 & 2, the new phase is Lot 3, and Honua Kai is on lot 4, so the sewage plant is actually across the highway, and up the road a bit.

The short answer is that it depends on the wind, the weather, and what cycle the sewage plant is in. But most of the time there is no smell.

 

[alotofgolf]

We will see what they do -- timeshare developers don't seem to care that much on the impact to the existing owner...


and that is =the basis of my earlier post

not saying I oppose the development of the property BUT how they treat current owners could be the thing that inspires sales for all their resorts -or- casts a negative light so brightly that it impedes sales at the new place(s)

 

[DeniseM]

Here is a satellite photo. The footprint for phase 3 is right in the middle of the picture, below Honua Kai. Note the green belt below that - it should provide something of a buffer during construction, and that green belt can't be built upon.

 

[DeniseM]

We will see what they do -- timeshare developers don't seem to care that much on the impact to the existing owner...


and that is =the basis of my earlier post

not saying I oppose the development of the property BUT how they treat current owners could be the thing that inspires sales for all their resorts -or- casts a negative light so brightly that it impedes sales at the new place(s)

Of course they don't care - Starwood is all about the bottom line. I went to the annual board meeting at WKORV, when WKROV-N was announced and there were a lot of questions about the impact of the new phase on WKORV owners. Starwood completely brushed it off. When questions were directed to the current mgr. at WKORV, he basically shrugged and said, "not my problem."

Most developer sales will be via the fresh meat that they churn through the sales presentations at the resort. How current owners feel about phase 3 will have zero impact on sales.

 

[alotofgolf]

understand what you are saying Denise but I think this may be different

they are a stand alone company with 6 (5 original announcement and now Maui) new places to sell...existing owners are the first "rich" pool of customers to tap and negative press can impact sales at all the new places

call me naïve, but I think they'll be sensitive to this

ie: new coke, turbo tax, etc....all had big installed bases and they had to backtrack and do right to the current customers

 

[DeniseM]

understand what you are saying Denise but I think this may be different

they are a stand alone company with 6 (5 original announcement and now Maui) new places to sell...existing owners are the first "rich" pool of customers to tap and negative press can impact sales at all the new places

call me naïve, but I think they'll be sensitive to this

ie: new coke, turbo tax, etc....all had big installed bases and they had to backtrack and do right to the current customers

What negative press? A few rumblings from WKORV/WKORVN owners who don't want the expansion? Starwood will pacify them by spinning it as a great new opportunity, and that will be the end of it. It won't make any difference at all.

 

[SMHarman]

It will be really interesting to find out how Starwood managed to comply with Maui's requirement that the resort be completely self-sufficient, OR, if Maui changed the requirement.

The was the big sticking point with going forward with this resort, so I'm really curious.

Reminds me of the part in H2G2 with the fragile planet.
Weighed on entry and exit to eensure planet remained in balance.
My guess would be other projects to contribute to balance.

Link to explain this random thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Places_in_The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy

*

Bethselamin[edit]

Bethselamin is a fabulously beautiful planet which attracts billions of tourists each year. Unsurprisingly, cumulative erosion is a serious concern of the local authorities. Their solution is to calculate the net imbalance between the amount of matter eaten and the amount subsequently excreted by each visitor, and remove the weight difference through amputative surgery. Thus it is vitally important to get a receipt after every trip to the lavatory while on the planet.

 

[PamMo]

The issue with the water treatment plant isn't just the smell. It also discharges 3-5 million gallons of treated water into injection wells every day, which leak from submarine springs under the coral reef off Kahekili Beach Park (among other sites - but dye studies have shown highest concentration of nitrogen, phosphorus, and bacteria in front of WKORV/WKORVN http://mauinow.com/2013/07/24/wastewater-from-injection-well-traced-to-kahekili-beach/ or full study here http://earthjustice.org/sites/default/files/Lahaina-Tracer-Dye-Study.pdf).

A federal court just ruled against Maui County again, for the second time in less than a year, for violating the Clean Water Act and penalties have now exceeded $100 million. Mayor Arakawa has stated the county won't have to pay the fines, because they have permits to inject the treated wastewater into the wells. County officials want resorts to use it for irrigation which would mitigate the fines, but laying pipes is expensive. The money will have to come from somewhere, and county coffers aren't exactly overflowing with excess funds. With the treatment plant so close to Nanea, maybe part of the sustainability requirements will be met by using the water to keep the landscape lush?

 

[SMHarman]

Well, if they went with a points like I suggested, where only Nanea changes, then you could still trade into WKORV or WKORV-N.

And HGVC did this to their HHV owners when they developed KingsLand. With my 9,600 points, I was below the lowest pointed 2BR at KL.

We will see what they do -- timeshare developers don't seem to care that much on the impact to the existing owner...

Best,

Greg

Additionally I believe this will be one two and three beds. No lock off so
81k 129,800 and 196,900 on current math.

 

[JudyS]

Thanks for all the info, Denise.

Unfortunately, I think you are correct that Starwood won't care about the impact on current owners.

 

[Ken555]

Additionally I believe this will be one two and three beds. No lock off so
81k 129,800 and 196,900 on current math.

I hope you're correct, and this is what I also think is reasonable. Even so, I could see them charging 148,100 for a dedicated 2-bed so that all 2-bed units in Hawaii are the same value (which is what they charge for the dedicated 2-bed at Sheraton Steamboat).


Sent from my iPad

 

[Henry M.]

I agree with Ken. I don't see why the number of Staroptions for WNOV should be different than for a similar size unit at WKORV/WKORV-N. At those properties a 1BR is 81,000 Staroptions and a 2BR 148,100.

Henry

 

[DavidnRobin]

+1 on what PamMo posted - Jarta was all over this.
There is a lot to learn from the historic posts on these topics.

That 'green belt' is for water drainage - and where the sewage runs during/after big storms.
For anyone that has snorkled the reef in front of WKORV/N it dies at the north border of WKORVN - this is from the runoff that flows in the natural drainage of the green belt. The reef stops, and then nothing to see UW anywhere north of there until Napili - both HL and WKORVNN have nothing cool to snorkel in front of their resorts (but better surfing and wind surfing north of there) - of course great sunset views.

Beach closed after big storm

As to the 'smell' - perhaps just bad luck on my part, but when we have strolled north - at north part of WKORVN - more times than not there is a noticeable sewage odor (beta-mercap)

Caveat Emptor
YMMV

 

[LisaRex]

^ which leaves HRA somewhat stuck still paying $3k MF for 148k points and unable to trade into the like Unit in HI just like that cannot I to WSJ now.

Also a mismatch between HI islands. Though demand can be argued for that.

I would certainly support HRA's points being adjusted upward. For what that's worth, which is about 25 SOs.

WPORV is the odd duck here. While its MFs are some of the highest in the timeshare industry, the demand is relatively low. So I think it would suffer even more if they raised the SOs. Once again, I think that implementing seasons ex post facto might be a solution, even though I hate muddying the waters.

 

[Henry M.]

Maui truly is a high season almost year round. The weather certainly cooperates. There's no Hurricane season, or colder weather at certain times. Demand during Christmas and early in the year is pretty high, as is the summer. There is some decline in the fall, and between Easter and June. However, from a "season" (weather) perspective, there is no time of the year you can't go, or where you would risk having significant bad weather.

WPORV is a little different, since there is a little more change between summer and winter, but still, it is mostly accessible year round.

 

[SMHarman]

I would certainly support HRA's points being adjusted upward. For what that's worth, which is about 25 SOs.

WPORV is the odd duck here. While its MFs are some of the highest in the timeshare industry, the demand is relatively low. So I think it would suffer even more if they raised the SOs. Once again, I think that implementing seasons ex post facto might be a solution, even though I hate muddying the waters.

Season's ex post is pretty impossible without the required HOA votes.

 

[Ken555]

Season's ex post is pretty impossible without the required HOA votes.

Yeah, it's a really far fetched notion to change season definitions. I'd also be surprised to find lots of StarOptions value changes beyond what has already been announced at other resorts, which was primarily done (from what I understand) to make them more in line with the rest of the "club".


Sent from my iPad

 

[dsmrp]

Perhaps, as YYJMSP briefly alluded to in another thread, Starwood vacation spinoff company will create a Westin brand trust after Sheraton trust gets going. Maybe put the non-mandatory Westin resorts in trust, e.g. WMH Mission Hills, WDW Desert Willow, future Los Cabos and Cancun conversions, WPORV ...maybe Nanea too?? Unless of course Starwood thinks they could sell Nanea individually for a lot more.

btw, I believe getting TO Lahaina from Wailuku/Kahului & other points south & east, could still be a bottle-neck around that mtn(volcano slope) just after Maalaea. I guess not much Maui country transportation dept can do about that...

It's funny that within 40+ years the west sides of Maui, Big Island & Oahu even have become very desirable tourist areas. A few hundred years ago the ancient Hawaiians considered these dry, warm western sides a kind of 'no-man's land', especially Kona. When I was growing up in Honolulu, these were sleepy, country small town areas, except maybe Lahaina.

In my grandparents' & parents' days, the cash crops on Maui, Kauai and Lanai were sugar cane and pineapple. Now it's tourism. These islands don't have government, military or higher education revenue sources to bring in tax dollars.

 

[LisaRex]

Season's ex post is pretty impossible without the required HOA votes.

In another thread, "gold select" season owners at SVV/R reported that they were notified from Starwood that their week had been permanently upgraded to platinum season, and the entire gold select season has been done away with. So it is apparently possible to change seasons without HOA votes, at least for upgrades.

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222385

However, I'm not actually suggesting that Starwood would try to change seasons for OWNERS of WKORV/WPORV now. Since the entire year is platinum plus, that'd be a pointless exercise anyway. No, I'm suggesting that they might overlay seasons into the SO chart for folks exchanging IN, IOW charging exchangers 176,700 SOs for Jan/Feb/Mar exchanges and 148,100 for Oct/Nov/early Dec exchanges. (Owners exchanging OUT would all have to be given 176,700 SOs, of course.)

The only reason I'd even suggest overlaying seasons now is because I'm convinced that an increase in SOs for WKORV is extremely likely now that they are going ahead with Nanea. (Feel free to disagree with me.) And IF they do this, they risk a huge backlash from other SVNers, the vast majority of whom bought under the 67,100/81,000/148,100 SO chart.

It's one thing to increase SOs to 176,700 in platinum + season at a resort like WSJ, which has 3 seasons, because an exchange is still attainable for most owners, albeit in shoulder/low season. It'd be quite another to do this at a resort that has 1 season year round, and you've just priced the most popular resort out of range for a huge percentage of your owners. And note I wouldn't have dreamt that they'd increase the SOs to 176,700 at WKORV absent the WSJ increase. I never thought I'd see a 2 bdrm in platinum season be priced above 148,100. Now I believe that 176,700 is going to be the new norm for the upper tier resorts, and the others (WKV, WMH, WLR) will be left at the lower rate. It's a roundabout way of resetting the SO chart to be more in line with supply/demand.

Anywho, that is my latest stream of consciousness. I actually look forward to seeing what they're going to do. If they leave it at 148,100 SOs, that works for me, but it would leave me even more confused as to why they singled out WSJ.

 

[VacationForever]

I think SVN will count on folks banking their SOs to be able to book at increased SOs at the premium resorts.

 

[YYJMSP]

Perhaps, as YYJMSP briefly alluded to in another thread, Starwood vacation spinoff company will create a Westin brand trust after Sheraton trust gets going.

Pure speculation on my part -- but it would make sense to me for SVO to make a Sheraton trust and a Westin trust.

 

[YYJMSP]

In another thread, "gold select" season owners at SVV/R reported that they were notified from Starwood that their week had been permanently upgraded to platinum season, and the entire gold select season has been done away with. So it is apparently possible to change seasons without HOA votes, at least for upgrades.

There is no "gold select season owner" at SVR -- you owned Platinum or Gold Plus.

Gold Select refers to the single internal blended redemption rate for SVR owners booking at SVR with SO's. Non-SVR owners booking at SVR with SO's used the Platinum or Gold Plus redemption rates.

Did it actually say the season had been changed, or just that the SO's associated with their existing season had been changed?

The email I got just said I was getting more SO's, nothing about a change in seasons. But my units were already Platinum season, so perhaps I got a different email than those owning Gold Plus season...

 

[okwiater]

There is no "gold select season owner" at SVR -- you owned Platinum or Gold Plus.

Gold Select refers to the single internal blended redemption rate for SVR owners booking at SVR with SO's. Non-SVR owners booking at SVR with SO's used the Platinum or Gold Plus redemption rates.

Did it actually say the season had been changed, or just that the SO's associated with their existing season had been changed?

The email I got just said I was getting more SO's, nothing about a change in seasons. But my units were already Platinum season, so perhaps I got a different email than those owning Gold Plus season...

^^ This is correct. Starwood can change points values assigned to your ownership, because that's governed by the SVN rules, not your deed. People's ownerships and usage rights didn't change at all with the announcements. Only the odd "Gold Select" designation was done away with.