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Venturing Outside of MVC

Hobee

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Marriott’s Barony Beach, OceanWatch, SurfWatchx2 MountainSide, Aruba Ocean Club; MVC Trust Points
We are a fan of MVC and own 3 deeded weeks (2 enrolled/1 post-2010 unenrolled) and have Executive status. So far we have opted not to buy trust points. We purchased the unenrolled week for annual vacations at Hilton Head Island and to leverage MVC points from the enrolled weeks. I wonder what other timeshare/vacation systems would make a good compliment to a portfolio and would like to hear your thoughts or experiences. Things like new locations, RCI (vs II), similar system rules (short learning curve), different system rules, ease of entry/exit, cost/value, weeks vs. points, systems that are resale owner friendly, diversify timeshare portfolio, etc.
 

GregT

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Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
Hobee,

Where do you want to travel? I love Hawaii and think HGVC is a great complement to marriott because they have great properties on Oahu (Waikiki) and the Big Island. I purchased Starwood intending to want to access Caribbean with it, but find myself using it primarily for Kauai instead. Starwood also provides access for me to Cancun and Cabo although I've not used that yet.

Both of those systems can be purchased inexpensively and the quality of the properties is outstanding. Additionally, they have good reservation systems and my confidence is high that I will be able to secure the desired reservation, which is the whole point of owning timeshares.

They are good complements for me primarily because of my enthusiasm for Hawaii, and they also open doors to other locations not served by Marriott.

If you are looking for a dedicated trading property that also trades in RCI, then Worldmark is a great timeshare. I trade it mostly through II but occasionally in RCI when HGVC does a bulk deposit.

It's a very powerful trader.

So, where are you hoping to go that you can't find with Marriott?

Best,

Greg
 

GregT

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Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
All,

Thinking further about my reservations in other systems, here is the cost of making my reservation in other systems. These are the reservations that I target, and represent some of the reasons I find the ownerships useful, in addition to diversity of places to visit.

These amounts based purely on the blended cost of all the maintenance fees I pay for my weeks in that system, and ignore any reservation cost ($59 in HGVC, I think) and the cost of the membership in the system. Like Marriott DClub, which has an annual fee, there are annual fees for HGVC and Starwood.

HGVC

Hilton Hawaiian Village (Lagoon Tower)
2BR Premier (this is 9,600 points, and is ocean-front): $1,600
1BR Plus (this is 6,200 points, and is ocean-view): $989

HGVC Kings Land
2BR Standard (this is 8,400 points in Phase 2, and is golf course view): $1,375
2BR Standard (this is 10,500 points in Phase 1, and is ground floor): $1,675

HGVC Kohala Suites and Bay Club (two different properties)
2BR Standard (this is 7,000 points): $1,117
1BR Standard (this is 4,800 points): $765

Because HGVC is a true point system, with consistent point requirements across all properties, anything you see that requires 4,800/6,200/7,000/8,400/10,500 will conform my blended MF computation.

None of the Big Island properties have an Ocean View, however they have access to the amenities at the hotel, which is terrific in its own right and a major reason we like HGVC and will keep staying there even when Marriott Big Island opens

Starwood (now called Vistana)

Westin Princeville
1BR (this is 81,000 StarOptions): $1,289
2BR (this is 148,100 StarOptions): $2,356

81K and 148K StarOptions are the backbone of the Starwood point system for a 1BR and a 2BR. Some properties deviate modestly from this structure (Westin St. John) or have a premium for ocean-front rooms (Westin Kaanapali) but for the most part, 81K and 148K are the benchmarks.

These points provide access to Kauai (Princeville), Maui, Cancun, soon to be Cabo San Lucas, Nassau and St. John. I've encouraged Marriott owners interested in Maui to consider Starwood and WKORV as an easier to access option than trying to trade into my beloved MOC.

These costs also provide a comparator against the comparable Marriott units on the same island. A 2BR that requires 5,000 Marriott DC points (Waiohai Island View) has a "points-cost" of $2,500, ie you could rent 5,000 points from someone for $0.50 each (or $0.55, whatever you negotiate) and you can book a Marriott Waiohai for $2,500. That's easier than buying a Starwood and constructing the portfolio to then stay at Westin for $2,356. Unless you prefer Princeville.

I should add one more comment regarding Worldmark and Interval International. If you are satisfied with Studio accommodations, then Worldmark is a great option for you because it trades well into most Marriott Studios (except MOC) because most Marriott owners are not looking to match a Studio and let them slide through the 24 day preference. I will routinely deposit a Worldmark week with Interval International that has an MF of $420 and pay the $179 exchange fee and trade for a Marriott Studio, if I need for a couple traveling with us, as an example. For $600, I get a Studio week -- that's cheaper than renting the points and booking the Studio through DClub (but it's also less predictable). I've done this most frequently at Ko Olina, where a Studio is 2,000 points.

I hope this helps!

Best,

Greg
 
Last edited:

dioxide45

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Marriott Grande Vista
Marriott Harbour Lake
Sheraton Vistana Villages
Club Wyndham CWA
Great points Greg! We added three Vistana weeks to get us up to a total of 206,000 StarOptions for every other year and 162,000. I have found, as you mentioned to me before, that VIstana isn't really a cheap way to timeshare. At least not when using their Vistana network. The cost of each reservation is pretty close to what an actual home resort owner would pay in MFs for owning a similar unit as you reserve. There is no real way to "game the system" like I can do with our Marriott weeks in II. Our recent 6 night Westin Maui reservation is costing about $1920. However our 7 night Ko'Olina exchange was done using on of our $1300 MF Orlando weeks.

We do like the additional locations we can go to with Vistana. Specifically the Mexico options and Caribbean options. As you suggested, we are using Vistana to go to Maui. A much easier reservation than trying to score an exchange through II for the Marriott on Maui,
 

Hobee

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Marriott’s Barony Beach, OceanWatch, SurfWatchx2 MountainSide, Aruba Ocean Club; MVC Trust Points
Thank you GregT and dioxide45 for sharing your knowledge and use of other systems to compliment your Marriott ownership. I think that Presidential status with Marriott gives us the most bang for the buck and maybe out next purchase is not with Marriott but with another system. Greg T, more options in Hawaii, Sedona, Sonoma, and the Smokies are other locations that are appealing. We do not own any lockouts. So maybe a lockout in another system would be worth pursuing. A good independent with low MF's to trade in II is of interest as well.
 

JIMinNC

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Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
All,

Thinking further about my reservations in other systems, here is the cost of making my reservation in other systems. These are the reservations that I target, and represent some of the reasons I find the ownerships useful, in addition to diversity of places to visit.

These amounts based purely on the blended cost of all the maintenance fees I pay for my weeks in that system, and ignore any reservation cost ($59 in HGVC, I think) and the cost of the membership in the system. Like Marriott DClub, which has an annual fee, there are annual fees for HGVC and Starwood.

HGVC

Hilton Hawaiian Village (Lagoon Tower)
2BR Premier (this is 9,600 points, and is ocean-front): $1,600
1BR Plus (this is 6,200 points, and is ocean-view): $989

HGVC Kings Land
2BR Standard (this is 8,400 points in Phase 2, and is golf course view): $1,375
2BR Standard (this is 10,500 points in Phase 1, and is ground floor): $1,675

HGVC Kohala Suites and Bay Club (two different properties)
2BR Standard (this is 7,000 points): $1,117
1BR Standard (this is 4,800 points): $765

Because HGVC is a true point system, with consistent point requirements across all properties, anything you see that requires 4,800/6,200/7,000/8,400/10,500 will conform my blended MF computation.

None of the Big Island properties have an Ocean View, however they have access to the amenities at the hotel, which is terrific in its own right and a major reason we like HGVC and will keep staying there even when Marriott Big Island opens

Starwood (now called Vistana)

Westin Princeville
1BR (this is 81,000 StarOptions): $1,289
2BR (this is 148,100 StarOptions): $2,356

81K and 148K StarOptions are the backbone of the Starwood point system for a 1BR and a 2BR. Some properties deviate modestly from this structure (Westin St. John) or have a premium for ocean-front rooms (Westin Kaanapali) but for the most part, 81K and 148K are the benchmarks.

These points provide access to Kauai (Princeville), Maui, Cancun, soon to be Cabo San Lucas, Nassau and St. John. I've encouraged Marriott owners interested in Maui to consider Starwood and WKORV as an easier to access option than trying to trade into my beloved MOC.

These costs also provide a comparator against the comparable Marriott units on the same island. A 2BR that requires 5,000 Marriott DC points (Waiohai Island View) has a "points-cost" of $2,500, ie you could rent 5,000 points from someone for $0.50 each (or $0.55, whatever you negotiate) and you can book a Marriott Waiohai for $2,500. That's easier than buying a Starwood and constructing the portfolio to then stay at Westin for $2,356. Unless you prefer Princeville.

I should add one more comment regarding Worldmark and Interval International. If you are satisfied with Studio accommodations, then Worldmark is a great option for you because it trades well into most Marriott Studios (except MOC) because most Marriott owners are not looking to match a Studio and let them slide through the 24 day preference. I will routinely deposit a Worldmark week with Interval International that has an MF of $420 and pay the $179 exchange fee and trade for a Marriott Studio, if I need for a couple traveling with us, as an example. For $600, I get a Studio week -- that's cheaper than renting the points and booking the Studio through DClub (but it's also less predictable). I've done this most frequently at Ko Olina, where a Studio is 2,000 points.

I hope this helps!

Best,

Greg

Greg and others,

This discussion is very relevant to some thoughts we've been having recently. When our daughter heads to college in August and our son graduates from college in December, our travel flexibility is going to expand significantly, so we are preparing to probably add to our Marriott ownership in some fashion later this year. As Greg alluded above, we also think some of the other systems - particularly HGVC - might make a good complement to Marriott. We also just bought a Vistana $299 preview package to go to their new Westin Los Cabos, hopefully some time in first quarter 2018. That will be our first exposure to that system, but I'm less convinced that Vistana fits as well as HGVC with our needs. In either event, with either HGVC or Vistana we would only do a resale purchase.

One of our goals is to get back to EOY or so trips to Hawaii and we're going to be looking at an EOY 1BR Maui Ocean Club week and/or a few more DC Points to help achieve that, plus the ability to visit many other MVC locations. Based on Greg's numbers and similar number crunching I've done, it does look like utilizing the HGVC Waikoloa resorts for the Big Island may be more cost effective than Marriott points for the new Waikoloa Ocean Club, so that would allow us to use HGVC for most of the Big Island visits, freeing our Marriott ownership to give us access to Maui, Kauai, KoOlina, etc. There may be some other places in the HGVC network where they overlap with MVC, and where we could use similar alternative HGVC accommodations to allow our MVC weeks/points to be used for other places. I haven't looked at that in any depth yet, though. We've stayed at HGVC Kohala Suites and at some other HGVC properties through RCI exchanges from our pre-Marriott timeshare ownership, so we like their properties a lot.

My questions are:

1) Based on what I've read on the HGVC forum, there doesn't seem to be a need to own at the Waikoloa HGVC resorts, that when their 9-month Club season opens, there is usually good availability in Waikoloa. What HGVC resorts do you own to give you the MF costs you noted above? I'm thinking a 1BR Platinum at either HGVC Sea World or HGVC Tuscany Village would be the best way to get 4800 points. Since with banking and borrowing that would give us 9600 HGVC points EOY, that might be enough to meet our needs as a complement to MVC. I know the Vegas properties may have slightly lower MF/point but it seems the Orlando locations are very close. How do you use your HGVC properties to complement MVC?

2) Any thoughts on where Vistana complements Marriott best? Is it harder in their system to use their StarOptions to book other Westin/Vistana resorts (assuming you own a resale Mandatory resort)? I seem to read a lot on the Westin/Vistana forum that it can be difficult to book with StarOptions when their reservation system opens up the windows to book reservations at resorts you do not own at.
 

GregT

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Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
My questions are:

1) Based on what I've read on the HGVC forum, there doesn't seem to be a need to own at the Waikoloa HGVC resorts, that when their 9-month Club season opens, there is usually good availability in Waikoloa. What HGVC resorts do you own to give you the MF costs you noted above? I'm thinking a 1BR Platinum at either HGVC Sea World or HGVC Tuscany Village would be the best way to get 4800 points. Since with banking and borrowing that would give us 9600 HGVC points EOY, that might be enough to meet our needs as a complement to MVC. I know the Vegas properties may have slightly lower MF/point but it seems the Orlando locations are very close. How do you use your HGVC properties to complement MVC?

2) Any thoughts on where Vistana complements Marriott best? Is it harder in their system to use their StarOptions to book other Westin/Vistana resorts (assuming you own a resale Mandatory resort)? I seem to read a lot on the Westin/Vistana forum that it can be difficult to book with StarOptions when their reservation system opens up the windows to book reservations at resorts you do not own at.

Jim, congratulations on the upcoming changes, they sound exciting (and certainly open new opportunities for you!)

With respect to your questions:

1) You are correct that the Waikoloa resorts are widely available year-round, including summer. I've not checked over holidays, but it is very easy to book space in Waikoloa, which is an area that I love. With respect to my HGVC's, I own Flamingo 2BR, Sea World 1BR and Tuscany Village 1BR. The Flamingo and the Sea World are the lowest MF properties, Tuscany Village is ~$100 higher and is not as cost-effective as the others. All are platinums. My first purchase was the Sea World 1BR and it alone could meet your needs (but that Flamingo 2BR is dynamite). HHV on Oahu is much trickier to book than Waikoloa, but it is still accessible. Since you have off-season travel available to you, you would not have a problem booking HHV. I use HGVC to either extend a family trip to Maui in June, or as a destination in its own right in Fall or Spring. HHV is restful and has access to tremendous restaurants and shopping, and Waikoloa is a great base camp for seeing the Big Island, so two very different vacation.

2) StarOptions are very easy to use and with you having off-season available to you, I think you would find many properties (including WKORV) to be very accessible. The Starwoods that I own are at SVV Bella (which is mandatory), and I own four 1BR units that are worth 44K or 37K StarOptions. These are basically free to acquire but the MFs are higher than the best MF/StarOption property (Westin Kierland). I used to have a Westin Kierland but sold it to buy something else (I don't even remember what I bought).

You probably benefit less from Starwood than a non-enrolled Marriott owner does. That non-enrolled Marriott member has to work a little bit to get to Maui, whereas you can just rent points and reserve easily. If you weren't enrolled, then WKORV-N is a noteworthy alternative to MOC (but of course I will always take MOC). For you, the complements are more Westin St. John, Cancun and future Cabo. Harborside is there for you too, but I don't know if your family profile will be seeking out Harborside. We visited once and had a great time, but probably will not return.

I do want to put in another plug for Worldmark. For those people who can travel off-season and who can travel with short notice, the Flex Trades available to Worldmark are fantastic, and Worldmark only charges 4,000 credits (~$280 in MFs) plus a housekeeping junk fee ($70) and exchange fee (~$179). I know all that adds up -- but you can rent Worldmark credits easily, just like you can rent Marriott points (there's where I got the idea). You can make a trade in II -- and then go rent the credits before II pulls them out. It's a good deal.

I hope that helps? Happy to keep talking about all of these, I love the different timeshares and I definitely prefer the mini-systems to the vagaries of exchange trading.

Best,

Greg
 

JIMinNC

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Marriott:
Maui Ocean Club
Waiohai Beach Club
Barony Beach Club
Abound ClubPoints
HGVC:
HGVC at Sea World
Jim, congratulations on the upcoming changes, they sound exciting (and certainly open new opportunities for you!)

With respect to your questions:

1) You are correct that the Waikoloa resorts are widely available year-round, including summer. I've not checked over holidays, but it is very easy to book space in Waikoloa, which is an area that I love. With respect to my HGVC's, I own Flamingo 2BR, Sea World 1BR and Tuscany Village 1BR. The Flamingo and the Sea World are the lowest MF properties, Tuscany Village is ~$100 higher and is not as cost-effective as the others. All are platinums. My first purchase was the Sea World 1BR and it alone could meet your needs (but that Flamingo 2BR is dynamite). HHV on Oahu is much trickier to book than Waikoloa, but it is still accessible. Since you have off-season travel available to you, you would not have a problem booking HHV. I use HGVC to either extend a family trip to Maui in June, or as a destination in its own right in Fall or Spring. HHV is restful and has access to tremendous restaurants and shopping, and Waikoloa is a great base camp for seeing the Big Island, so two very different vacation.

2) StarOptions are very easy to use and with you having off-season available to you, I think you would find many properties (including WKORV) to be very accessible. The Starwoods that I own are at SVV Bella (which is mandatory), and I own four 1BR units that are worth 44K or 37K StarOptions. These are basically free to acquire but the MFs are higher than the best MF/StarOption property (Westin Kierland). I used to have a Westin Kierland but sold it to buy something else (I don't even remember what I bought).

You probably benefit less from Starwood than a non-enrolled Marriott owner does. That non-enrolled Marriott member has to work a little bit to get to Maui, whereas you can just rent points and reserve easily. If you weren't enrolled, then WKORV-N is a noteworthy alternative to MOC (but of course I will always take MOC). For you, the complements are more Westin St. John, Cancun and future Cabo. Harborside is there for you too, but I don't know if your family profile will be seeking out Harborside. We visited once and had a great time, but probably will not return.

I do want to put in another plug for Worldmark. For those people who can travel off-season and who can travel with short notice, the Flex Trades available to Worldmark are fantastic, and Worldmark only charges 4,000 credits (~$280 in MFs) plus a housekeeping junk fee ($70) and exchange fee (~$179). I know all that adds up -- but you can rent Worldmark credits easily, just like you can rent Marriott points (there's where I got the idea). You can make a trade in II -- and then go rent the credits before II pulls them out. It's a good deal.

I hope that helps? Happy to keep talking about all of these, I love the different timeshares and I definitely prefer the mini-systems to the vagaries of exchange trading.

Best,

Greg


Thanks Greg. Very helpful.

I think I have a pretty good handle on how HGVC works and the point values/pricing/MF, but I'm still a little fuzzy on Vistana/Starwood. I found a StarOptions point chart link in the Vistana TUG board (seems to not be as straightforward as HGVC, but simpler than MVC DC Points), but their maintenance fee information is not as complete on that forum as the info here on the Marriott board or on the HGVC board. What are the maintenance fees of your 1BR SVV (Bella) units? How do their fees compare to the 1BR HGVC units at Sea World and Tuscany Village? You are correct that their locations seem less complementary than HGVC, and St John and maybe Cabo are indeed the most appealing of their locations. Harborside would maybe be a one time thing just to see Atlantis, and maybe Princeville if we wanted to try out Kauai north shore sometime instead of Poipu or Lihue.

It does look like that with HGVC, 4800 points from a 1BR platinum can get you into another 1BR most anywhere in HGVC every year (except maybe Phase 1 at Kings Land and a couple others) and even a 2BR EOY - with banking/borrowing. But it looks like in Vistana/Starwood it takes a lot more points than you get from an SVV to get even 1BR units in places like Hawaii and the Caribbean.

I haven't looked much at Worldmark, as so many of their locations appear to be focused on the west coast. But I could see where with all of the western locations though, that the short notice benefits you mentioned could be very attractive for you.
 

dioxide45

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Marriott Harbour Lake
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I think I have a pretty good handle on how HGVC works and the point values/pricing/MF, but I'm still a little fuzzy on Vistana/Starwood. I found a StarOptions point chart link in the Vistana TUG board (seems to not be as straightforward as HGVC, but simpler than MVC DC Points), but their maintenance fee information is not as complete on that forum as the info here on the Marriott board or on the HGVC board. What are the maintenance fees of your 1BR SVV (Bella) units? How do their fees compare to the 1BR HGVC units at Sea World and Tuscany Village? You are correct that their locations seem less complementary than HGVC, and St John and maybe Cabo are indeed the most appealing of their locations. Harborside would maybe be a one time thing just to see Atlantis, and maybe Princeville if we wanted to try out Kauai north shore sometime instead of Poipu or Lihue
I can only talk to Vistana as we don't own HGVC, though Greg has suggested we buy one of those too :). For StarOption generators, there are two main options that most consider. THere is the two mandatory phases at SVV (Bella and Key West) and Westin Kierland Villas. Here is a breakdown of the pros and cons for each.

Sheraton Vistana Villages - Bella and Key West. The pros of this are the fact that you can buy them super cheap on the resale market. The 1BR Prime (Platinum) season usually sell for a few hundred dollars. The 2BR Prime season usually sell for about $1000-$1200. For the best MF to StarOption ratio, you want to buy Prime (Platinum) season. Just like with Marriott (and I suspect Hilton), you pay the same annual MF for more points. So the High (Gold Plus) season is not as good of a value.

2BR regular units will get you 81,000 StarOptions in Prime season. We now own two of these. THe annual fee last year was $1189 plus the $140 VSN annual fee. YOu pay this fee every year, even if you have EOY ownership. To compare, we have always broken down the MF to the ratio of 1000 StarOptions. The 2BR Prime has a ratio of about $16.40 per 1000 SOs. This is actually somewhat high, but you have the benefit of little upfront commitment when compared to Kierland. Another con is that you really can't rent out SVV weeks with there being so many options in Orlando. Also, certainly don't buy SVV to go to SVV since you can get there in many other ways much cheaper.

Westin Kierland Villas - The big con here is the large upfront commitment. A Platinum Plus 2BR-Lock Off will run you about $14,000. However, it does get you 148,100 StarOptions and the MFs are were last reported at $1,504 . So the MF per 1000 SOs here is only $11.10. So you can see why this is considered a better deal in the long run. Though some have suggested that perhaps you can break even if you buy SVV and put the difference in purchase price to work for you and make up the difference in opportunity costs. However, another big plus of WKV is that you can rent it for big bucks (some reported as high as $4000 for a week during Spring Training season. So if you have no use for the week, it is easy to rent for a great return on investment.

Using the VSN network during the 8-0 month network float period is pretty easy. However, you really can't easy use the network during these times during super peak times to prime properties. Christmas and Summer in Hawaii are not as easy. Vistana works a little differently than Marriott. They don't hold anything back for network reservations. Owners can book up all of the availability during specific weeks if they call in between the 12 and 8 month mark. So available reservations can often be unavailable even before the network float period starts at 8 months. However, reserving most locations much of the other times of the year is pretty easy in Vistana. We were able to easily book 13 nights in Cancun (where I am typing from now) and also 6 nights in December in Maui.
 

GregT

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Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
It does look like that with HGVC, 4800 points from a 1BR platinum can get you into another 1BR most anywhere in HGVC every year (except maybe Phase 1 at Kings Land and a couple others) and even a 2BR EOY - with banking/borrowing. But it looks like in Vistana/Starwood it takes a lot more points than you get from an SVV to get even 1BR units in places like Hawaii and the Caribbean.

I haven't looked much at Worldmark, as so many of their locations appear to be focused on the west coast. But I could see where with all of the western locations though, that the short notice benefits you mentioned could be very attractive for you.

Jim,

Yes, 4,800 points will get you a 1BR EY or 2BR EOY in most places, and that Sea World unit that bought was a terrific unit. Tuscany Village's MFs make it less desirable. But I would think very hard about going with the 7,000 Flamingo 2BR. The MFs aren't that much higher (I think $950?) versus $750 and you get comparatively alot more points to work with. Flamingo also doesn't have ROFR and right now HGVC has been relatively active to exercising. I think newer HGVC properties will have higher point requirements and you may be happy to have the extra points.

With respect to Worldmark, I'm advocating it more for its value as an II trader than its locations. It has a ton of locations and is a reliable system, however the quality is a step or two down from Marriott/Hilton/Starwood.

Best,

Greg
 

JIMinNC

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Thanks for the info guys.

One question that wasn't answered was what is the MF cost for Greg's 1BR SVV Bella units? I haven't been able to find that to compare to the HGVC 1BR MFs and the 2BR SVV MFs.

However, since the 1BR SVV Bella units are only worth 37-44K SOs, it looks like it would take two of those to be able to book a 1BR most other places in the VSN system, or be content to only book a 1BR every other year. It would also take two 1BR SVV units to book a 2BR every other year in VSN. Unless the 1BR MFs are very low, around $500 or so, the 81K for a 2BR SVV Bella might offer more value. The WKV @ 148,100 SOs and only a $1500 MF does seem to be the best all around deal, but I'm not sure the Vistana system offers us enough value as a MVC complement to justify $14K up front.

The more I look at it, Vistana just doesn't look like it's as good of a complement for us to MVC as HGVC would be. I think we would love the St John location and would probably love to try Harbourside at Atlantis at least once. But everything I've read on the Vistana board seems to say that St John is very hard to book outside of the fall hurricane season. The Hawaii locations on Maui and Kauai might also offer a nice change of pace from time to time vis-a-vis MVC if we could book them during the January-March time frame. Never been to Cancun or Cabo, so not sure if they would have appeal. We did buy a 4-night preview package for Westin Los Cabos to try to use in early 2018, so that will be our intro to Mexico.

Given the high SO requirements, Vistana doesn't look like it's as good of a value unless you pony up for the high upfront cost for Westin Kierland Villas.
 

GregT

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Marriott: Maui Ocean Club Lahaina Villas (3BRx5), Ko Olina, Shadow Ridge II, Willow Ridge, Aruba Ocean Club, DC Points HGVC: Flamingo, Sea World, I-Drive, Starwood Bella (x4), SDO, TradeWinds, Worldmark
Thanks for the info guys.

One question that wasn't answered was what is the MF cost for Greg's 1BR SVV Bella units? I haven't been able to find that to compare to the HGVC 1BR MFs and the 2BR SVV MFs.

However, since the 1BR SVV Bella units are only worth 37-44K SOs, it looks like it would take two of those to be able to book a 1BR most other places in the VSN system, or be content to only book a 1BR every other year. It would also take two 1BR SVV units to book a 2BR every other year in VSN. Unless the 1BR MFs are very low, around $500 or so, the 81K for a 2BR SVV Bella might offer more value. The WKV @ 148,100 SOs and only a $1500 MF does seem to be the best all around deal, but I'm not sure the Vistana system offers us enough value as a MVC complement to justify $14K up front.

The more I look at it, Vistana just doesn't look like it's as good of a complement for us to MVC as HGVC would be. I think we would love the St John location and would probably love to try Harbourside at Atlantis at least once. But everything I've read on the Vistana board seems to say that St John is very hard to book outside of the fall hurricane season. The Hawaii locations on Maui and Kauai might also offer a nice change of pace from time to time vis-a-vis MVC if we could book them during the January-March time frame. Never been to Cancun or Cabo, so not sure if they would have appeal. We did buy a 4-night preview package for Westin Los Cabos to try to use in early 2018, so that will be our intro to Mexico.

Given the high SO requirements, Vistana doesn't look like it's as good of a value unless you pony up for the high upfront cost for Westin Kierland Villas.

Jim, you are correct, the cost of the reservations through Vistana is less attractive than equivalent through HGVC. I pay $560 for each of the 1BR units allocation of StarOptions, so a 44K and a 37K together give the 81K needed for a 1BR -- and that's $1,120 for the room in MFs. If I was using only 37K units (which are free on eBay), then the cost is higher as per my computation above ($1,289). Not as attractive as the HGVC costs.

I hope that helps!

Best,

Greg
 

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Jim, you are correct, the cost of the reservations through Vistana is less attractive than equivalent through HGVC. I pay $560 for each of the 1BR units allocation of StarOptions, so a 44K and a 37K together give the 81K needed for a 1BR -- and that's $1,120 for the room in MFs. If I was using only 37K units (which are free on eBay), then the cost is higher as per my computation above ($1,289). Not as attractive as the HGVC costs.

I hope that helps!

Best,

Greg

Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, it sounds like your four 1BR SVVs would total about $2200 in annual maintenance fees for somewhere around 160,000 SOs annually. What have you been able to get for that? How do you usually use them? Is it mainly for Princeville as you mentioned in post #3? Have you ever been able to use them for St John, and if so in what season? Just trying to get a sense for what is doable in VSN.

I think HGVC will be our first thing to pursue outside of Marriott, but I'm open to learning more about whether Vistana might have a fit somewhere down the road.
 

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Thanks.

Just out of curiosity, it sounds like your four 1BR SVVs would total about $2200 in annual maintenance fees for somewhere around 160,000 SOs annually. What have you been able to get for that?

I've been able to sight most things and have made reservations (but not always kept because I tend to over-reserve):

1) Studio for 7 days at WSJ in Feb
2) 10 day 1BR at WKORV N in June
3) 13 day 2BR at HRA in June
4) 12 day 1BR at WPORV in June

2BRs at WKORV and HRA are tough to sight and WSJ has been toughest, but now that is is converting to 100% timeshare, the belief is it will get easier.

Cancun and WPORV are very easy to book. I have stayed at WPORV twice (actually next month is my second trip) and each time I booked a longer reservation and then shortened it to fit final travel plans.

Inventory releases right at 9pm PT/12am ET 8 months out and either your space is there or it is not.

Best,

Greg
 
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We have 162,000 SOs in the odd year and 206,000 in the even years. Our MFs work out to about $2800 a year. We have only made two reservations so far.

6 nights in a 2BR in Maui for December
13 nights in a 1BR in Cancun for May

THis left us with effectively what would be about 8000 StarOptions to bank from 2017 in to 2018 out of the 206,000 that we had in 2017.

My searching tends to show that smaller units (studio and 1BR) tend to be harder to find at WSJ where 2BR are a little easier to come by. WSJ may also become easier because as Greg mentioned, they are converting the rest of the hotel property to timeshare and the new $25 occupancy tax may put a dent in some of the demand. The only problem is that if you want to conserve the SOs, you probably don't want to book the larger units that may be easier to see.

I haven't tried searching for Harborside yet. Really for us the only ares of interest that they have properties, is Mexico, WSJ, Maui and Bahamas. Most other areas there is already overlap with Marriott. While there is also overlap in Maui, we went for the much easier reservation in Vistana at WKORVN instead of trying to score an exchange in to MOC with II using a Marriott week.
 
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Thanks again guys.

I think HGVC will be our first target to complement our Marriott ownership. I'm probably leaning toward a platinum 1BR at Sea World, although the mf/point of the LV Flamingo that Greg mentioned is appealing. But the listings I've seen for those are at least twice the cost of a 1BR Sea World and I'm not yet convinced we need more than 4800 HGVC points/year. That would still get us a 1BR at The Bay Club EOY with 4800 points the other other year to use elsewhere in HGVC. Alternatively, it could get us a 2BR Premier at Kohala Suites EOY or a 1BR Plus at Kingsland EOY. If we could get a 1BR platinum at Sea World for $1/point or less, I think that might be a good fit. Of course if I stumbled on a 7000 point Flamingo for somewhere in the same $1/point range, that would be a better alternative since there is no ROFR, but I don't think I'd pay a large up front premium over Sea World for the extra points unless we were sure we needed them. I need to add to our Marriott ownership as well, so I don't want to overspend on HGVC.

The main thing I need to work through now is timing. Our travel calendar is fairly full for the next 12 months, so I need to figure out whether we might have a use for 4800 HGVC points in the second half of 2018 (in which case we should probably move fairly quickly) or if that need won't be there until early 2019 when we are thinking about Hawaii (in which case I probably wouldn't want to buy HGVC this year and be obligated for the 2018 MF).

I'm still intrigued by Vistana, but I'm not sure there's enough location synergy for us there at this point to make that our first move outside of Marriott.

Thanks again for taking the time to help educate me. Now I gotta figure out what we need with Marriott - an EOY MOC week, more points, or both.
 

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Of course if I stumbled on a 7000 point Flamingo for somewhere in the same $1/point range, that would be a better alternative since there is no ROFR

I bought my Flamingo by telling a broker that I was willing to pay $6,500 (including closing costs) and to go find a seller for me. I've done this a couple of times, and it works well -- I bought the Ko Olina the same way. He came quickly (less than a week) with a seller for me and I paid exactly $6,500. So there are opportunities out there and I think you could get that Flamingo for ~$1/point.

Best,

Greg
 

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We were in Orlando last week with family and stayed at Star Island. We did a Wyndham presentation. Found out that Wyndham only owns a few of the buildings at Star Island. We learned very little of the mechanics of the Wyndham system as it definitely was a marketing presentation. Funny...knowing that we were owners, they spent about 50 minutes of the 90 minute presentation convincing us why timeshare stays are better than hotels. Aside from Worldmark, I find it interesting that other tuggers have not commented on Wyndham ownership. Ebay has a lot of Wyndham contracts for little $ and closing/transfer costs pre-paid. All of the prior comments have been helpful, and I think I will take a closer look at HGVC. The system appears to function a lot like an enrolled Marriott week after paying HGVC a modest activation fee. I have noticed other systems have various credits and/or fees for reservations, cleaning, banking and booking which is different than MVC.
 
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