Wyndham Purchase Help

[HeidingOut]

I'm a timeshare newbie! So, please guys kit gloves. We own at Westin Lagunamar and are thinking of purchasing Wyndham points as honestly we love Wyndham properties and travel 6-7 weeks per year at Wyndhams (on rentals). I've read lots of forums and post. I have pretty good idea as to how all of this works. But, need advice as to the type of contract to buy (obviously resale).

We are thinking min 500,000 points as I plan to supplement our points with rentals. We spend at least 3-4 weeks per year at Bonnet Creek. But, we can drive to Bonnet Creek, Clearwater, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge. We usually spend at least one week at Panama and Great Smokies. This year we did one week at Clearwater which was nice as well. Last year we did several weeks in CA at the Oceanside Resort (also fabulous). Unfortunately, as my oldest child is now in school. We are becoming more and more tied to his schedule. So, we are having to book weeks pretty much during prime (F&W at Disney in Oct, Thanksgiving Week, Christmas Week, Spring Break in March, and then lots of summer trips). We still do travel with my husband's work, but more and more we are tied to kids school schedules.

So, my question is this. Should I buy the 500,000 points at Bonnet Creek to get ARP there? And, then would I have access to the other resorts during prime weeks at 10 months? Or, should we buy CWA (which would give us ARP at 13) but does it have inventory at these resorts during prime weeks? Bonnet Creek, Clearwater, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge are the ones I'm most interested in. But, looking towards the future we'd like to schedule trips to Flagstaff, etc.

Thanks in advance for all of your words of wisdom!

 

[MaryBella7]

How many total weeks do you plan to use the points for per year? What size room do you need?

 

[HeidingOut]

Looking at the points charts I'm thinking it's only going to get us 2 weeks during prime in a 2 bedroom. There are times that I travel without my husband so we can stay in a 1 bedroom. But, definitely have times I would need a two bedroom. I know we probably need alot more points for all of our trips, but just thinking we'd get our feet wet and continue to rent the other weeks.

 

[Braindead]

Looking at the points charts I'm thinking it's only going to get us 2 weeks during prime in a 2 bedroom. There are times that I travel without my husband so we can stay in a 1 bedroom. But, definitely have times I would need a two bedroom. I know we probably need alot more points for all of our trips, but just thinking we'd get our feet wet and continue to rent the other weeks.

I would go with CWA if you want ARP at Bonnet Creek. MFs are about the same for CWA and Bonnet Greek.
Go with CWA in case you end up wanting ARP some where else in a CWA resort in the future.

 

[Baby Jane]

I'm a timeshare newbie! So, please guys kit gloves. We own at Westin Lagunamar and are thinking of purchasing Wyndham points as honestly we love Wyndham properties and travel 6-7 weeks per year at Wyndhams (on rentals). I've read lots of forums and post. I have pretty good idea as to how all of this works. But, need advice as to the type of contract to buy (obviously resale).

We are thinking min 500,000 points as I plan to supplement our points with rentals. We spend at least 3-4 weeks per year at Bonnet Creek. But, we can drive to Bonnet Creek, Clearwater, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge. We usually spend at least one week at Panama and Great Smokies. This year we did one week at Clearwater which was nice as well. Last year we did several weeks in CA at the Oceanside Resort (also fabulous). Unfortunately, as my oldest child is now in school. We are becoming more and more tied to his schedule. So, we are having to book weeks pretty much during prime (F&W at Disney in Oct, Thanksgiving Week, Christmas Week, Spring Break in March, and then lots of summer trips). We still do travel with my husband's work, but more and more we are tied to kids school schedules.

So, my question is this. Should I buy the 500,000 points at Bonnet Creek to get ARP there? And, then would I have access to the other resorts during prime weeks at 10 months? Or, should we buy CWA (which would give us ARP at 13) but does it have inventory at these resorts during prime weeks? Bonnet Creek, Clearwater, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge are the ones I'm most interested in. But, looking towards the future we'd like to schedule trips to Flagstaff, etc.

Thanks in advance for all of your words of wisdom!

Panama City has pretty low maintenance fees. Depending on when you go Bonnet Creek should be available at 10 month window. We have CWA but honestly rarely use the 13 month window.

 

[HeidingOut]

So availability at Bonnet Creek, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge is generally not an issue with CWA? Some reason I thought I had read otherwise. But, then again, I've read so many forums trying to learn as much as I can maybe I am completely confused.

 

[paxsarah]

I think at 10 months with those you're still pretty safe. I know I've heard with Great Smokies that with summer you don't want to wait much later than 10 months, though. It's a little early yet, but for instance right now the 10-month mark is around Memorial Day and I pulled up a week at Great Smokies from 5/26-6/2 and pretty much every size unit is available. With Bonnet Creek, I've heard 10 months is fine unless you want the larger presidential units on a holiday week. I don't know what the peak times are at Panama City, but several sizes/views available right now for a week checking in the Friday before Easter, for example.

 

[vacationhopeful]

You are buying resale, right? Because there are NO discount points for points booked or unit upgrades, that you MIGHT have been getting when renting vacation stays. And also, renting via a broker (verses your relatives or a friend) might be harder and more expensive .. .due to changes in their website (and computer programs). And the Wyndham fees ... for things that previously were FREE or an all day computer site usage rules. It is so bad, that MANY mega-renters have turned back their ownerships to Wyndham ... as Wyndham starting freezing their accounts (so as to audit their point balances LAST August). Audits still not done or done via Wyndham rules.

Glad you like the resorts ... you might not want to buy either directly from Wyndham or resale points contracts. Renting gives you more options.... with less commitment to a corporation who is changing their game plans with their owners by interpreting 'rule' changes or implementing NEW rules strongly in Wyndham Corporate favor & their corporate profit line.

 

[staceyeileen]

I just booked Great Smokies Lodge at 10 months for the Memorial Day 2018 holiday. It's still available. BC availability is usually not an issue because it's such a large resort. I often book within 90 days of check in. I've got a labor day weekend reservation that I booked in June. At 10 months I would think you can get in even for peak time.

Clearwater is not a CWA resort. PCB has some of the lowest fees in Wyndham.

 

[Richelle]

So availability at Bonnet Creek, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge is generally not an issue with CWA? Some reason I thought I had read otherwise. But, then again, I've read so many forums trying to learn as much as I can maybe I am completely confused.

CWA and deeded ownership are separate inventory. At 10 months, points are points. However, if you want ARP, it's a toss up as to which has more inventory at a given resort. Bonnet may be 10% CWA inventory, 50% deeded inventory, and 40% extra holiday inventory (just throwing out numbers). If that were the case, you'd have more chances to get ARP in Bonnet then you would with CWA. In theory anyhow. If you are not competing with a lot of CWA people for the same CWA inventory, and a lot of people are competing for deeded inventory, you might have better luck with CWA. I am not sure anyone here could give you exact numbers. I would be more inclined to get deeded at Bonnet rather then CWA. CWA is still new so there is no telling how much or how little of Bonnet inventory is in the trust. Plus i prefer deeded ownership to a membership in a program. It's harder to kick someone out of property they own. Its much easier with a membership, and they can change the amount of inventory in a trust at anytime, subject to trust laws. They can change the rules more easily then change property laws. In other words, they have more control over a trust then they do someone's deed. Of course they could shutdown the entire resort and we would own nothing, but I doubt they would do that anytime in the near future with Bonnet. The choice is yours. I would talk with people who have CWA and people who own at Bonnet and have booked prime season 13 months out. They can give you an idea on what inventory is easier to get and what is harder. Even if you do not travel during prime season, knowing whats easier to get during prime, should tell you whats easier to get in low season.

With that said, I have not had trouble getting what i want 10 months out. Although I cannot say I have tried Bonnet at the 10 month mark. I was able to book a two bedroom unit for Christmas, a few days after the 10 month mark. I could have gotten lucky though.

 

[Braindead]

It is so bad, that MANY mega-renters have turned back their ownerships to Wyndham ...

I'm not sure about this one. I'm not saying none have turned back their ownership.

The mega renters that signed settlement agreements didn't have a choice in handing over their ownerships

 

[rhonda]

@Richelle, Thank you for the great explanation of CWA vs Deeded. That was hugely instrumental to me, a Wyndham lookie-loo/renter (non owner). Thx!

 

[Braindead]

So availability at Bonnet Creek, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge is generally not an issue with CWA? Some reason I thought I had read otherwise. But, then again, I've read so many forums trying to learn as much as I can maybe I am completely confused.

As the economy improved more people are taking vacations. The resorts are busier than 5-7 years ago.

I'm not saying that you need ARP anywhere today. But what if do need ARP in a few years.

CWA is the safe bet. CWA is only going to add resorts to the list of resorts they own at.
I've been told Clearwater Beach is going to be in CWA by several connections. It just hasn't been formally announced yet

 

[HeidingOut]

Thanks for all the wonderful insight in all of the responses! Just to clarify I agree with everyone that Wyndham has done some funny business lately and changed the rules. That's actually one of the reasons that I'm thinking of owning since renting does seem to have changed dramatically. This was actually the first summer I wasn't able to pick up a last minute rental in late July (and, I probably have 6-7 megarenters I checked with). We had just been in late May right before our Clearwater trip so it really wasn't the end of the world. But, I'm thinking the points I will own can serve as my backup plan for when renting doesn't work out. So, yes, I understand the resell points won't be eligible for discounts or upgrades. But, now I just have to decide would it be better to own deeded or CWA. The arp at CWA for mutiple resorts is definitely interesting but I also love the idea of a deeded property especially considering all the "rule" changes that were recently handed down.

Since CWA is a membership club and not deeded property, could Wyndham ever decide it's only available to owners who bought developer points? I don't want to spark a battle here. I'm just really interested in whether or not this is a possibility? I guess there is no guarantee that Wyndham has to even deposit Bonnet Creek points into CWA? Kind of like Disney did with RCI. You used to be able to book DVC with RCI and now it's really limited inventory only at Saratoga Springs. I'm just thinking of problems that I should forsee for the future.

 

[whitewater]

I would go with CWA if you want ARP at Bonnet Creek. MFs are about the same for CWA and Bonnet Greek.
Go with CWA in case you end up wanting ARP some where else in a CWA resort in the future.

x2 - cwa has always gotten us rooms at BCR during prime season.

 

[Roger830]

I wonder if it matters what time of the year you book with cwa using arp.

It seems to me that if cwa owns a specific number of points, if those points are used by say, July, then there won't be any arp for the rest of the year.
With a huge number of cwa members, that seems likely for popular resorts.

 

[whitewater]

I wonder if it matters what time of the year you book with cwa using arp.

It seems to me that if cwa owns a specific number of points, if those points are used by say, July, then there won't be any arp for the rest of the year.
With a huge number of cwa members, that seems likely for popular resorts.

never experienced that. I book 13 months in advance and have ALWAYS had rooms at resorts during prime season.

some examples:
Reunion Christmas
BCR Spring Break
BCR Memorial Day Week
Reunion Next week
BCR Labor Day weekend
Reunion Thanksgiving Week
BCR Christmas Week
San Antonio Spring Break
Myrtle Beach Memorial Day Week
Ozarks Summer

all are 3 BR and booked using CWA.

plan ahead and I've been able to go anywhere that CWA has APR. Those with limited inventory (destin) I've not checked.

 

[cayman01]

never experienced that. I book 13 months in advance and have ALWAYS had rooms at resorts during prime season.

some examples:
Reunion Christmas
BCR Spring Break
BCR Memorial Day Week
Reunion Next week
BCR Labor Day weekend
Reunion Thanksgiving Week
BCR Christmas Week
San Antonio Spring Break
Myrtle Beach Memorial Day Week
Ozarks Summer

all are 3 BR and booked using CWA.

plan ahead and I've been able to go anywhere that CWA has APR. Those with limited inventory (destin) I've not checked.

LOL, I will go the other way and say I NEVER book 13 months out and I have pretty much gotten what I want except Orlando next week during the owners meeting, and I could have gotten it yesterday but wanted something other than Star Island.

BCR Christmas AND New Year"s booked in May before the Debacle.
Smokey Mtns. and Sapphire Valley for July, booked in April
Flagstaff, Angel Fire and Pagosa Springs for August, booked in February
Margaritaville Pigeon Forge for January, booked in May
BCR in June, booked three weeks before.

The rooms are there to be had if you are diligent enough. Booking 13 months out will get you what you want when you want but I don't know what we are doing next month nevermind next year. Plans always change. Spring Break in PCB? That's one you probably need to book way ahead. BCR is BIG. There is plenty of inventory there at 10 months no matter what time of year. Margaritaville PF is tiny. Only SIX rooms, 2 1BR's and 4 Studios. That's one you grab if you see it ( and only if your ownership is eligible). Glacier Canyon and Smokies Lodge are huge summer destinations and do need to be booked ahead, but only for summer time. Same for Myrtle Beach. And i must say that after having been to Smoky Mountains I think I prefer staying there as the Lodge is a ways from the action (traffic wise) of Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg.

 

[cayman01]

So, my question is this. Should I buy the 500,000 points at Bonnet Creek to get ARP there? And, then would I have access to the other resorts during prime weeks at 10 months? Or, should we buy CWA (which would give us ARP at 13) but does it have inventory at these resorts during prime weeks? Bonnet Creek, Clearwater, Panama City, and the Great Smokies Lodge are the ones I'm most interested in. But, looking towards the future we'd like to schedule trips to Flagstaff, etc.

If you were to buy one of these it should be PCB. Much lower maintenance fees than the others ( although Clearwater MF's are STILL unknown !!) which will save you a bunch of $$ each year. Not too many contracts out there so you will pay a little more for it, but you will recoup those $$ in the lower MF's. PCB is $4.67/1000 pts., BCR is $6.18 and The Lodge is $5.17. So if you bought PCB you would be saving anywhere from $250-750/yr in maintenance fees. CWA is somewhere around $6.25/1000 I believe. As for Clearwater, it is so new that there are no contracts that have even hit the resale market yet.

You could always buy two different resorts to have ARP at each. I would probably recommend the Lodge and PCB as they have fewer units available than BCR.

 

[ronparise]

I wonder if it matters what time of the year you book with cwa using arp.

It seems to me that if cwa owns a specific number of points, if those points are used by say, July, then there won't be any arp for the rest of the year.
With a huge number of cwa members, that seems likely for popular resorts.

I don't think it works that way.

Points are symbolic of ownership so if CWA owns 25% of a resort, in a hypothetical 100 unit resort, CWA owns 25% of the units.

My favorite example is Mardi Gras. La Belle Maison has 140 units and all of them are reserved for Mardi Gras within a few minutes 13 months in advance. As near as I can tell CWA owns 25%. So 25% of the units go to CWA owners and 75% go to UDI owners

Once CWA's 25% are reserved, that's it. The next CWA owner that tries to reserve a unit will be told that there is nothing left.

So there will be 25% of La Belle Maison available to CWA owners for Mardi Gras (February) and 25% available to CWA for Jazz Fest (April/May); 25% for Essence Fest (July); 25% for Voodoo (October) and there will still be 25% available to CWA owners for New Year's Eve and the Sugar Bowl (December)

 

[Roger830]

I don't think it works that way.

Points are symbolic of ownership so if CWA owns 25% of a resort, in a hypothetical 100 unit resort, CWA owns 25% of the units.

My favorite example is Mardi Gras. La Belle Maison has 140 units and all of them are reserved for Mardi Gras within a few minutes 13 months in advance. As near as I can tell CWA owns 25%. So 25% of the units go to CWA owners and 75% go to UDI owners

Once CWA's 25% are reserved, that's it. The next CWA owner that tries to reserve a unit will be told that there is nothing left.

So there will be 25% of La Belle Maison available to CWA owners for Mardi Gras (February) and 25% available to CWA for Jazz Fest (April/May); 25% for Essence Fest (July); 25% for Voodoo (October) and there will still be 25% available to CWA owners for New Year's Eve and the Sugar Bowl (December)

What you're saying makes sense for a new resort where they could own a block of units for a full year, but for older resorts they accumulate contracts of points that are absorbed into cwa.

An example is Royal Vista where it's my understanding that they recently started acquiring contracts. If they only own a few million points, then those points could be booked in January, thus leaving no arp for future months.
I don't know, just questioning.

Four winter Florida fixed weeks are best for us and enough low mf points for about another two weeks gets us what we want at 10 months.

 

[cayman01]

What you're saying makes sense for a new resort where they could own a block of units for a full year, but for older resorts they accumulate contracts of points that are absorbed into cwa.

An example is Royal Vista where it's my understanding that they recently started acquiring contracts. If they only own a few million points, then those points could be booked in January, thus leaving no arp for future months.
I don't know, just questioning.

Four winter Florida fixed weeks are best for us and enough low mf points for about another two weeks gets us what we want at 10 months.

Not really, because if they are buying converted weeks contracts they only get ARP for the underlying week. So you cannot ARP a January stay with a June week. What you are saying will work with UDI contracts only. I bet that is why some contracts are not being taken by Ovation.

 

[Roger830]

Not really, because if they are buying converted weeks contracts they only get ARP for the underlying week. So you cannot ARP a January stay with a June week. What you are saying will work with UDI contracts only. I bet that is why some contracts are not being taken by Ovation.

Royal Vista is all udi.

I agree that cwa arp for converted fixed weeks such as Sea Gardens would only be for the weeks that they own.

 

[ronparise]

What you're saying makes sense for a new resort where they could own a block of units for a full year, but for older resorts they accumulate contracts of points that are absorbed into cwa.

An example is Royal Vista where it's my understanding that they recently started acquiring contracts. If they only own a few million points, then those points could be booked in January, thus leaving no arp for future months.
I don't know, just questioning.

Four winter Florida fixed weeks are best for us and enough low mf points for about another two weeks gets us what we want at 10 months.

If you don't know and are just questioning then my best guess could be right too


Let's assume that CWA has 2% of the points from a 100 unit resort. That's the equivalent of 2 units every week of the year or all 100 units for one week

I'm suggesting that the way Wyndham handles this is the former

to go back to my La Belle Maison example: I used to own a couple of million La Belle Maison Points and a couple of million CWA. And I tried to use them all for Mardi Gras reservations (February)

When I made those reservations we always came to the point where there was no more availability for my CWA points but there was still availability for my UDI points.

If you were right than the place could fill up with nearly all CWA owners. That dosent happen so I think I'm right

But who really knows?

 

[whitewater]

@ronparise makes a good point. if you have to get to a specific place I'd buy UDI at that resort. See above for La Belle Maison example.

Comes down to how much of the in-demand places to you want to go.

my experience is CWA works for us even post website horrors but I by no means have as much experience as Ron or others so factor their advice into where your wanting to go.

if you have not read this great advice articles then do so. They are priceless and take all advice both present and past into a one stop place.
http://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?threads/sticky-wyndham-information-and-advice-articles.128302/