• Welcome to the FREE TUGBBS forums! The absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 32 years!

    Join Tens of Thousands of other owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
  • TUG started 32 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!

    Read about our 32nd anniversary: Happy 32nd Birthday TUG!
  • TUG has a YouTube Channel to produce weekly short informative videos on popular Timeshare topics!

    All subscribers auto-entered to win all free TUG membership giveaways!

    Visit TUG on Youtube!
  • TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $24,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!

    Read more here: TUG saves owners more than $24 Million dollars
  • Sign up to get the TUG Newsletter for free!

    Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
  • Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!

    All T-shirt options here!
  • A few of the most common links here on the forums for newbies and guests!

Purchasing points

F

FrostyKev

TUG Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2010
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
Lone Tree, CO
What are the resale restrictions on points for the new system? Considering the discount for existing owners is less than 50c a point, wouldn't it be wise for us tuggers to wait for the recent purchasers to get buyers remorse in a few years? Say in 2-5 years do you think we'll be seeing points on ebay? I would think there will be a ROFR but it wouldn't be at 9.20 a point but (pure speculation) somewhere in the 5-6$ range? :shrug: Thinking that it would be nice to own points, but I don't need em now!
 
FrostyKev said:
What are the resale restrictions on points for the new system? Considering the discount for existing owners is less than 50c a point, wouldn't it be wise for us tuggers to wait for the recent purchasers to get buyers remorse in a few years? Say in 2-5 years do you think we'll be seeing points on ebay? I would think there will be a ROFR but it wouldn't be at 9.20 a point but (pure speculation) somewhere in the 5-6$ range? :shrug: Thinking that it would be nice to own points, but I don't need em now!
Click to expand...



As far as I know, at this point in time, there is no vehicle set up in which you can re-sell your points.

However, you can "rent" points by the year, and have seen these available on ebay auctions. The landlords (owner of the points) obviously have more points than they can use for a particular year and offer them up for others to use.



.
 
FrostyKev said:
What are the resale restrictions on points for the new system? Considering the discount for existing owners is less than 50c a point, wouldn't it be wise for us tuggers to wait for the recent purchasers to get buyers remorse in a few years? Say in 2-5 years do you think we'll be seeing points on ebay? I would think there will be a ROFR but it wouldn't be at 9.20 a point but (pure speculation) somewhere in the 5-6$ range? :shrug: Thinking that it would be nice to own points, but I don't need em now!
Click to expand...

I think you have is a good plan. Points can be very attractive, but not at the current Marriott price. I am sure they will start selling privately in the next year or two.
 
TheTimeTraveler said:
However, you can "rent" points by the year, and have seen these available on ebay auctions. The landlords (owner of the points) obviously have more points than they can use for a particular year and offer them up for others to use.
Click to expand...

So do you know if an owner could rent some points from person A , some more from person B and then combine them for use in staying somewhere?
 
Clark said:
So do you know if an owner could rent some points from person A , some more from person B and then combine them for use in staying somewhere?
Click to expand...



As far as I know, yes. However, the person renting the points MUST have an established DC account (either from buying points, or converting Legacy weeks) in order for this to work. Person A and B work with Owner Services in order to get the points into your account.

This is all new to everyone, so I have no idea how smooth the transfers are going.

Maybe someone who has actually done this can comment ?????



.
 
I transferred points from my account to another person's account and it was very simple -- we did it via email with my VOA, and the transferree received an email confirmation from Marriott.

The transferred points have to be used in the designated usage year (I transferred 2012 usage year points) and they can not be banked/borrowed into a different year (and they can not be transferred out to another person).

I think the ability to transfer points between owners is very powerful and I believe a vibrant points rental market will develop over time, as it has with other systems (DVC, Worldmark).

With Worldmark, there is no reason to own large quantities of points because you can rent them cheaply and easily.

I believe the same will occur with Marriott. As rental point prices remain relatively high (I rented mine out at $0.65/point) I will rent points out. I think point prices will decline the closer to expiration you get, and I know of an eBay auction right now (I'm not a participant) for 2011 usage year points at $0.55 per point.

Best,

Greg
 
So nothing set up to sell them yet. Eventually there will have to be, considering the never ending MF's and no way to sell. Those that fail to cancel, eventually will sell on the open market.

So, are there any provisions to prevent buying into the DC via resale? I'm taking the view of the DC as a "new" resort, initially you can't buy anything resale since there is no inventory, then buyers remorse sets in:eek: , or divorce:eek: , or death:bawl: , or financial trouble:wall: , and they need to dump it, those prices stay high. More and more come along and we have a marketplace for points like DVC!?!?! :whoopie:

I'm just wondering the details on ROFR for points, how long it takes for a market like that to form, what kindof fees will be involved for the new points account (like the 1495 fee for resale conversion weeks), and what other holes I haven't thought of yet. . .
 
FrostyKev said:
So nothing set up to sell them yet. Eventually there will have to be, considering the never ending MF's and no way to sell. Those that fail to cancel, eventually will sell on the open market.

So, are there any provisions to prevent buying into the DC via resale? I'm taking the view of the DC as a "new" resort, initially you can't buy anything resale since there is no inventory, then buyers remorse sets in:eek: , or divorce:eek: , or death:bawl: , or financial trouble:wall: , and they need to dump it, those prices stay high. More and more come along and we have a marketplace for points like DVC!?!?! :whoopie:

I'm just wondering the details on ROFR for points, how long it takes for a market like that to form, what kindof fees will be involved for the new points account (like the 1495 fee for resale conversion weeks), and what other holes I haven't thought of yet. . .
Click to expand...

It isn't pretty. It seems people buying points who are new members would need to pay a $200 per interest (per 250 points) initiation fee to join the exchange program with a $2000 minimum. Though current enrollees may not have to pay this. There is also a ROFR fee that Marriott can charge that is not to exceed $1 per point. So for a 2000 point purchase, a new member would need to pay $4000 ($2000 for the initiation fee and $2000 for the ROFR fee). A current enrollee may only need to pay $2000 for the ROFR fee. No word on what the ownership transfer fee would be if any.

BTW-Post #5000.
 
dioxide45 said:
It isn't pretty. It seems people buying points who are new members would need to pay a $200 per interest (per 250 points) initiation fee to join the exchange program with a $2000 minimum. Though current enrollees may not have to pay this. There is also a ROFR fee that Marriott can charge that is not to exceed $1 per point. So for a 2000 point purchase, a new member would need to pay $4000 ($2000 for the initiation fee and $2000 for the ROFR fee). A current enrollee may only need to pay $2000 for the ROFR fee. No word on what the ownership transfer fee would be if any.

BTW-Post #5000.
Click to expand...

Congrats on post #5,000

People who buy points become points owners. They do not become 'members' of anything by buying points.

Section IV subsection H of the MVCI DC Exchange Procedures document is quoted as follows:

H. Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, and Special Benefits.

Exchange Company may offer Special Benefits through the Program to certain Members, from time to time. Such Special Benefits may vary, are not part of the Affiliate Program (or its reservation system), and are provided solely as part of the Program at the sole and absolute discretion of Exchange Company.

Exchange Company has the right to establish such rules and regulations as it deems necessary to adequately govern Member access to such Special Benefits, which may include certain fees.

In addition, Exchange Company has the right to restrict use of any Base Plus Exchange Benefits and Special Benefits offered by Exchange Company to certain Members, including, without limitation, only to those Members who (i) purchase an Interest from or through an “Approved Broker” which includes: (a) the developer of the Member’s Affiliate Program or Component; or (b) such other entity approved by Exchange Company, from time to time; (ii) acquire the Interest by virtue of being a Family Member by gift, will, divorce decree, testamentary disposition, intestate succession or trust from a Member; or (iii) is otherwise granted Membership by Exchange Company, upon the terms and conditions then determined by Exchange Company in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion.

If a Member (note - an existing member and I assume either trust or exchange) does not purchase the Member’s Interest from an Approved Broker, such Member may be limited to only Base Exchange Benefits, or upon payment of the initiation fee, if permitted in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion, Base Plus Exchange Benefits. Any offered Special Benefits are subject to separate terms and conditions, which may be changed, substituted, or eliminated without prior notice. Some Special Benefits may be provided by independent third parties and Exchange Company expressly disclaims responsibility for the acts or omissions of any persons or entities providing such Special Benefits. Special Benefits are only available to Guests that are accompanied by a Member or a Family Member of the Member.
Click to expand...


This states that if you are already a member (trust or exchange) of DClub, you get Base Exch Bens, and MAY be permitted Base+Exch Bens if you pay the I-fee.

It seems to be silent on the question of benefits if you are not already a DClub member (either trust or exchange) , and don't buy from an approved broker,

But then see Section VI - 1 miscellaneous provisions of the program disclosure guide.

1. Base Exchange Benefits, Base Plus Exchange Benefits, and Exchange Benefits. Exchange Company may offer Exchange Benefits other than Base Exchange Benefits and Base Plus Exchange Benefits to certain Members, from time to time. Exchange Company reserves the right to establish such rules and regulations as it deems necessary to adequately govern Member access to Exchange Benefits which may include certain fees. In addition, Exchange Company reserves the right to restrict the offering or use of any Base Plus Exchange Benefits and Exchange Benefits to certain Members, including, without limitation, allowing use of such Exchange Benefits only to those Members who purchase their Interests from an Approved Broker. The Exchange Benefits are subject to separate terms and conditions, which may be changed, substituted, or eliminated without prior notice. Some Exchange Benefits may be provided by independent third parties and Exchange Company expressly disclaims responsibility for the acts or omissions of any persons or entities providing Exchange Benefits.
Click to expand...

Then see the next subsection., quoted below which specifically applies to Trust Members

a. Trust Members. Upon the sale (by whom to whom?) of an Interest, Exchange Company may require the payment of an initiation fee. (The current initiation fee is $200 per Interest with a $2,000 minimum initiation fee; however, Exchange Company reserves the right to adjust the amount of the initiation fee from time to time and to waive the initiation fee on a case-by-case basis in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion.) Until payment of any required initiation fee is received (or waived by Exchange Company), the owner of such Interest(s) will not be entitled to Base Plus Exchange Benefits or Exchange Benefits; however, payment of the initiation fee will allow access to the Base Plus Exchange Benefits. If the purchase of an Interest is not made from an Approved Broker, then the owner of such Interest(s) may not be entitled to Exchange Benefits in Exchange Company’s sole and absolute discretion, even if the initiation fee is paid. Additional payments may be required to access the Exchange Benefits.
Click to expand...

This section states that existing Trust members may not get even X benefits (even if the init fee is paid) if you didn't buy from an Approved Broker.

These sections contradict one another.

Be very careful when reading the docs for antecedent references to Members, Trust Members and Exchange Members.

The documents refer to 1. the rights of members (collectively) , 2. the rights of trust members and 3. the rights of exchange members.

New points purchasers are points owners - nothing more. They are not members or trust members or exchange members.
 
windje2000 said:
People who buy points become points owners. They do not become 'members' of anything by buying points.

New points purchasers are points owners - nothing more. They are not members or trust members or exchange members.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to get a handle on what it is exactly that you would own.

Say you want to vacation at a resort requiring 4000 points a week. You can buy 4000 points, but nothing stops Marriott from later raising the points needed for that week to 5000.

I can't really think of any similar purchase arrangement.
 
alchook said:
I'm trying to get a handle on what it is exactly that you would own.

Say you want to vacation at a resort requiring 4000 points a week. You can buy 4000 points, but nothing stops Marriott from later raising the points needed for that week to 5000.

I can't really think of any similar purchase arrangement.
Click to expand...

You would own the right to reserve occupancy no more than 60 days before the check in date.
 
windje2000 said:
You would own the right to reserve occupancy no more than 60 days before the check in date.
Click to expand...

This may only apply to trying to obtain inventory from the exchange company. The procedure guide that you have referenced appears that it may only apply to reserving through the exchange company. What about actual trust inventory? All of the documents including the trust seem to be void of any information about this.
 
dioxide45 said:
This may only apply to trying to obtain inventory from the exchange company. The procedure guide that you have referenced appears that it may only apply to reserving through the exchange company. What about actual trust inventory? All of the documents including the trust seem to be void of any information about this.
Click to expand...

It's probably the same as when a member stops paying dues.

I forget the exact wording for the 60 day out classification and don't have access to the docs, but its something like 'holding'.
 
Is it just me or do those seem like some pretty scary terms in there, exchanges with only 60 day notice? That devalues your ability to use the DC, makes weeks resale limitations look heavenly!
 
dioxide45 said:
This may only apply to trying to obtain inventory from the exchange company. The procedure guide that you have referenced appears that it may only apply to reserving through the exchange company. What about actual trust inventory? All of the documents including the trust seem to be void of any information about this.
Click to expand...

Good question - I had always assumed that the Exchange Company managed points based occupancy in Trust owned property on behalf of the Trust.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top