Senior MVCI sources have told me that ALL VC points are equal!

SueDonJ said:

I agree - cool stuff! Now I'm wishing I had DC Points available to play with this thing! We're about a month out from figuring out what to do in 2013; maybe then I'll be in the playground.

This latest you found still counts the points per night and won't let you combine the two types for a single night. And we still don't know the origin of the inventory. Unless, do you have more than the 1,000 Legacy Points available to play with? Do you have the 2,000 that this stay costs? Because if you do they're not letting you use 2,000 total Legacy points to book it, which leads me to think one of the nights must be Trust inventory. (But if you don't have the 2,000 Legacy points that thought goes out the window. )

Click to expand...

Right now, I don't see how the website will be able to show this. If it sees you have enough points, it will take them but it doesn't tell you where they are from.

It has to do this on a per night basis becuase the valuation is on a per night basis and changes based upon property, season, and day of week.

The origin of the 2013 inventory for this experiment is 1150 Legacy + 1000 Trust. I do have lots more legacy points but they are in the 2012 bucket at the moment.

The problem is that the website still doesn't show the source of the inventory. It could either all be in the Exchange Company or one night in the exchange company and the rest in the trust. My bet is however that both nights are in the exchange company and it is pushing you to use the legacy points first to pull inventory from the exchange company. It then has you using another 1K to get the desired reservation.

I never really understood early on why some people had reported a limitation trying to make a single night reservation with both types of points. Of course we don't know where the inventory was sitting at that time. If it was all in the exchange company, the combination of points shouldn't matter. They should be able to be combined to get the reservation. If it was in the trust, then I could understand why they couldn't get the reservation since it required 100% trust points and the legacy points couldn't pull from the trust.

I think the original post is all about somantics. The reference to Destinations Club quoted by th OP could easily be replaced with "internal exchange company" or any other term and it would agree with the prevailing opinion on this board.

I made a post back in Nov/Dec describing my experience of Ko Olina trust inventory present that I was unable to access after Jan 2nd 2013 despite securing the more coveted previous holidays. A month or 2 later I was able to get that inventory with my legacy points. This was not with just 1 VOA, I spoke to at least 3 different people.

dioxide45 said:

The problem is that the website still doesn't show the source of the inventory. It could either all be in the Exchange Company or one night in the exchange company and the rest in the trust. My bet is however that both nights are in the exchange company and it is pushing you to use the legacy points first to pull inventory from the exchange company. It then has you using another 1K to get the desired reservation.

I never really understood early on why some people had reported a limitation trying to make a single night reservation with both types of points. Of course we don't know where the inventory was sitting at that time. If it was all in the exchange company, the combination of points shouldn't matter. They should be able to be combined to get the reservation. If it was in the trust, then I could understand why they couldn't get the reservation since it required 100% trust points and the legacy points couldn't pull from the trust.

Click to expand...

I don't think its pushing me to pick anything first. On the contrary, its letting me choose from where to deduct the points from. I can take them all from the trust or just combine them. Its my choice, thats cool!

I don't think they will ever have the website show the actual source of the inventory. Why? I bet because the customer really doesn't care! They just want a confirmed vactation.

For the record, I never experienced any limitation in making reservations for any number of nights but I understand others have.

I think Sue's right- the real test is two-fold:
-can legacy and trust points be combined for a single night's reservation?
-can trust points "see' the same things as legacy points? For any single night of a reservation, can the reservation be made with either trust or legacy points? Early on, many reported this was not the case. Has that changed?

m61376 said:

I think Sue's right- the real test is two-fold:
-can legacy and trust points be combined for a single night's reservation?
-can trust points "see' the same things as legacy points? For any single night of a reservation, can the reservation be made with either trust or legacy points? Early on, many reported this was not the case. Has that changed?

Click to expand...

A way to test this would be for FractionalTraveler (or anyone with trust and legacy points) to do searches and see if they can find anything where only trust points are provided as an option to make a reservation. If that type of scenario is returned, it would indicate that it is trust inventory and not in the exchange company.

Ok dioxide, Here it is:

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...5R0x559XWnw/Reservation Experiment.png?psid=1

I can assure you this is combining both legacy and trust inventory for the 1-day. I currently have 1150 legacy + 1000 trust points allocated for 2013.

So it definitely is combing the 2 to get me the reservation.

FractionalTraveler said:

Ok dioxide, Here it is:

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...5R0x559XWnw/Reservation Experiment.png?psid=1

I can assure you this is combining both legacy and trust inventory for the 1-day. I currently have 1150 legacy + 1000 trust points allocated for 2013.

So it definitely is combing the 2 to get me the reservation.

Click to expand...

Good to see. Though it could still be inventory that is in the exchange company. I would hope to see that one can combine two types of points for anything in the exchange company despite what was the experiences of others in the past. There is really no way to know though where this inventory comes from. You are right, that in the end it really doesn't matter, all that matters is can someone get the reservation they desire.

Almost need to try for a 1000 point reservation that can only be pulled using your 1000 trust points and not also the 1000 legacy points. Would be interesting to see if that scenario exists. As that would show a distinction between trust inventory and exchange company inventory. If it can't be found, then it would seem that they have found a way for legacy points to pull trust inventory.

I have not been able to find that scenario yet, but I did find another interesting variation. Looks like I can break up a full weeks stay at Hilton Head 13 months out and select exactly how I want the points divided from each pool (trust or legacy) in 50 & 100 point increments. See link below.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...o72Q43IaYjcxmQ/Reservation Variant.png?psid=1

This seems really flexible.

Fractional Traveler,

This is really good news if an individual day is mixing the two buckets. I can't read the file on blackberry, can you describe the reservation?

I've seen situations where Mon/Tues/Wed were trust points and the other days were legacy points. But do I understand that you're having success booking Monday (as an example) combining the two types of points?

That would be a new (and good) development.

Thanks!

Greg

GregT said:

Fractional Traveler,

This is really good news if an individual day is mixing the two buckets. I can't read the file on blackberry, can you describe the reservation?

I've seen situations where Mon/Tues/Wed were trust points and the other days were legacy points. But do I understand that you're having success booking Monday (as an example) combining the two types of points?

That would be a new (and good) development.

Thanks!

Greg

Click to expand...

Greg,

Yes, I have already demonstrated in this thread that both buckets of points are mixing well for a 1-day reservation.

My latest experimental reservation was for Saturday check-in 3/30/2013. That's exactly 13 months out. Quite frankly I have checked this out on any day of the week prior to 3/30/2013 (including Monday 3/25/2013) and found the result to be the same.

On the website you can check the little "Date Flexible" box and you will see all the days that are available for your request.

I can't see where the inventory is coming from but I can elect from what bucket to take the points from to complete the reservation.

FractionalTraveler said:

Greg,

Yes, I have already demonstrated in this thread that both buckets of points are mixing well for a 1-day reservation.

My latest experimental reservation was for Saturday check-in 3/30/2013. That's exactly 13 months out. Quite frankly I have checked this out on any day of the week prior to 3/30/2013 (including Monday 3/25/2013) and found the result to be the same.

On the website you can check the little "Date Flexible" box and you will see all the days that are available for your request.

I can't see where the inventory is coming from but I can elect from what bucket to take the points from to complete the reservation.

Click to expand...

Fractional Traveler,

Thank you - I'll look at your examples when I am back online. I do know the reservation system well, and will be happy to see this development.

If you (or any Trust Point owner) have any extra trust points (25 pts?) for 2013, I'd love to repeat your success and can transfer you 25 legacy points in trade?

Best,

Greg

FractionalTraveler said:

I have not been able to find that scenario yet, but I did find another interesting variation. Looks like I can break up a full weeks stay at Hilton Head 13 months out and select exactly how I want the points divided from each pool (trust or legacy) in 50 & 100 point increments. See link below.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...o72Q43IaYjcxmQ/Reservation Variant.png?psid=1

This seems really flexible.

Click to expand...

I notice in this scenario that they are "recommending" 1000 trust points, but in the others, it seemed they recommended legacy points first? Or did you change the selection?

GregT said:

Fractional Traveler,

Thank you - I'll look at your examples when I am back online. I do know the reservation system well, and will be happy to see this development.

If you (or any Trust Point owner) have any extra trust points (25 pts?) for 2013, I'd love to repeat your success and can transfer you 25 legacy points in trade?

Best,

Greg

Click to expand...

Another thing that would be good to know is, are transferred trust points treated as trust points? Though it may not really even matter with the commingling of inventory in the exchange company.

dioxide45 said:

I notice in this scenario that they are "recommending" 1000 trust points, but in the others, it seemed they recommended legacy points first? Or did you change the selection?

Click to expand...

No that was just me clicking on that particular one for example. The website templete always displays Trust inventory in the first column and then the legacy points election in the next column.

I have checked all my saved scenarios and they all have defaulted to the first option row for selection.

Obviously you can click on any of the radio buttons and change the default selection.

Good catch. Made me go back and re-verify.

GregT said:

Fractional Traveler,

Thank you - I'll look at your examples when I am back online. I do know the reservation system well, and will be happy to see this development.

If you (or any Trust Point owner) have any extra trust points (25 pts?) for 2013, I'd love to repeat your success and can transfer you 25 legacy points in trade?

Best,

Greg

Click to expand...

Greg,

Send me a PM tomorrow and I'll send you the points.

FractionalTraveler said:

Ok dioxide, Here it is:

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...5R0x559XWnw/Reservation Experiment.png?psid=1

I can assure you this is combining both legacy and trust inventory for the 1-day. I currently have 1150 legacy + 1000 trust points allocated for 2013.

So it definitely is combing the 2 to get me the reservation.

Click to expand...

I wonder why the system didn't break the types of points out in this scenario. There is no table below that shows the Trust Points/Legacy Points . I would have expected options like, 1000 legacy and 1150 trust or 1150 legacy and 50 trust. Wonder if you booked this, where the points would actually come from.

dioxide45 said:

I wonder why the system didn't break the types of points out in this scenario. There is no table below that shows the Trust Points/Legacy Points . I would have expected options like, 1000 legacy and 1150 trust or 1150 legacy and 50 trust. Wonder if you booked this, where the points would actually come from.

Click to expand...

Dioxide, good question.

In this scenario its clear that I don't have enough points in either bucket to make the reservation. I don't know why it didn't give me the option to elect how to perform the breakage.

Maybe, thats a third bucket the OP eluded to in his original post?

Ok, I was able to answer my own question and what Dioxide was eluding to.

Yes, I can confirm now that when the website does not give you the option for the breakage, all the points are coming from the trust in this scenario.

How did I find out? Easy, I placed the reservation in HOLD status and it showed me immediately that all the points were coming from the trust.

See link below.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...2ReWpIf_579z0fK5Q/Hold Reservation.png?psid=1

Maybe other can chime in and see if they agree? I'm certainly no expert at this and I know a lot of other folks on this board are more experienced.

FractionalTraveler said:

Greg,

Send me a PM tomorrow and I'll send you the points.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much -- I just sent you a PM.

Best,

Greg

FractionalTraveler said:

Ok dioxide, Here it is:

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...5R0x559XWnw/Reservation Experiment.png?psid=1

I can assure you this is combining both legacy and trust inventory for the 1-day. I currently have 1150 legacy + 1000 trust points allocated for 2013.

So it definitely is combing the 2 to get me the reservation.

Click to expand...

FractionalTraveler said:

Ok, I was able to answer my own question and what Dioxide was eluding to.

Yes, I can confirm now that when the website does not give you the option for the breakage, all the points are coming from the trust in this scenario.

How did I find out? Easy, I placed the reservation in HOLD status and it showed me immediately that all the points were coming from the trust.

See link below.

https://public.bay.livefilestore.co...2ReWpIf_579z0fK5Q/Hold Reservation.png?psid=1

Maybe other can chime in and see if they agree? I'm certainly no expert at this and I know a lot of other folks on this board are more experienced.

Click to expand...

So then we are back to square one wrt whether trust and legacy points can be combined for a single night. I know you had assumed that it was because you didn't have enough in either bucket to make the reservation, but since it is showing as all being from trust points it is possible that you are seeing availability but perhaps couldn't actually complete the reservation. Thoughts??

m61376 said:

So then we are back to square one wrt whether trust and legacy points can be combined for a single night. I know you had assumed that it was because you didn't have enough in either bucket to make the reservation, but since it is showing as all being from trust points it is possible that you are seeing availability but perhaps couldn't actually complete the reservation. Thoughts??

Click to expand...

No, I think it would not have let me put the reservation on hold and take the inventory unless it was a valid request. On HOLD status is just 1-click away from an actual confirmation number. So I think the scenario is still VALID.

I am assuming that is the way the website business logic has been designed but I could be wrong.

There is no doubt that this scenario exists and can lead to a confirmation.

What still remains as a key question, is how the back-end processing is occuring (i.e. HOW the inventory is being mixed-up not IF).

How were the business rules implemented so that we can validate or in-validate these scenarios?

As a Sr. Software Engineer, I can tell you that there are basically two ways of learning this.

1. Review the Website Source code.
2. Reverse Engineer the business rules by performing these types of experimental scenarios and back-into the logic through trial and error.

Number 1 will never happen unless you have access to the code, so this one is out. I would also never try to do this as it will definitely infringe on some illegal activity.

Number two is what we have been testing in this thread. I guess others with similar capabilities can also perform their own tests and report back their own experiences as well.

The website also can have bugs which may distort our preception of reality when executing these tests so nothing is 100% in stone.

If others can find success in testing these scenarios over time then we can gain some level of confidence in our ability to understand whats happening.

good morning...

After 3 days at the Beach at Oceana Palms ( a stunning resort). I realized that I have been contemplating the wrong question. I(like the rest of us) have been contemplating Trust v. legacy points. However, the true question is much simpler!!!!

At this time i own 4 deeded weeks that come with 13,866 enrolled points. My vacation 401K is full. IOW.. I am not in the market for more weeks, Legacy points Or Trust points. A few years ago, I drank the Kool Aid and purchased tomorrows vacations at today's prices. I have done extremely well.

My 13,866 cannot be morphed into Trust points and I am not purchasing more, so the comparison is moot, except for an a academic exercise!!

The only question for me is "Has the DC rollout enhanced or hurt my timeshare portfolio???

To me the answer is an unequivocal enhancement!!!!! I spent $695 to enroll...Used the 800 pts to more than recoup the $695...
I have made great DC point ressies, cancelled a gazillion times for no charge,, I have used the "Puck trick" twice to save 20%. I have still used II to get some great snags on Flexchange with GV studios... I still have great home weeks and my cash drains are guaranteed Hawaii honeymoons and in 15 years I plan to have the grand kids down for Pres weeks at GV in my 3 bedroom!!!

My rep asked me If I had a choice between 13,866 Trust points vs. My 4 deeds and 13,866 Enrolled which would i choose. The answer was keeping what I have!!!!

Not to contradict windje in the "got the call" thread, but I believe that I am the big cheese in the new world (a direct purchaser with enuf legacy points to be Premier Plus)....I get so many benefits including the %45 discount which gets me Trust inventory (Oceana Palms) for cheaper than the MF's on Trust points...

I love MVCD!!!!!!

p.s today I get to meet Greg for Berns steak house and Lightning hockey!!!!

I think one of the reasons we got into this whole discussion is because of the TUGger whose points were manipulated by a rep without the TUGger's knowledge or permission. It was for one night of Trust inventory and when the rep couldn't cover it with a combination of Trust and Legacy points, s/he used a combination of the remaining Trust points in the TUGger's current Use Year and then borrowed the rest of the required Trust points from the next Use Year. Except s/he didn't tell the TUGger about any of the manipulations including the borrowing!

I can't find the thread - does anyone else remember that?

I still go back to, it may be possible for Marriott to mingle the points and inventory among the buckets - even at the time of booking - so as to make it appear that DC Points are equal in all ways. But in order to satisfy the required inventory controls and audits they must be able to match "points in" with "intervals out" at certain checkpoints, and I just can't see how they can do that if the points and intervals are not tracked and manipulated according to origin. At this early stage with so much unsold inventory sitting in the Trust it should be relatively easy to do these manipulations, but as time goes on and more Trust points are sold that may not be the case.

But I still think that until/unless Marriott conveys something to the Trust and prohibits its use by any non-Trust Members, we Exchange Members should have relatively little problems using our Legacy Points to book pretty much anything through the DC Exchange Company. Certain intervals might not be available at the minute our Reservation Window opens, but eventually we'll gain access to them.

FractionalTraveler, just a note here to say thanks for spending so much time in your account for purposes of this thread. It's so helpful to be able to look at what's happening despite the fact that some of us don't have points to play with right now.

But please, be careful that you don't click on something that you didn't want to click! The last thing we want is for you to end up with a reservation in East Timbuktu during Monsoon Season.