PLEASE READ - Sheraton Desert Oasis Owners (POLL ADDED!)

I have no intention of visiting SDO in the near future. And why visit where I own? I bought this unit for trade, which is a completely acceptable use of the week.

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Ken, ... Sorry you don't like my posting style. I tell it like I see it.

Trading out is an acceptable use of the week. So is staying at the resort for the week. But, owner/users and owner/traders may have differing points of view about the extent, quality and timing of renovations.

Someone who buys only for the low MF with no intention to stay at the resort - but only to trade somewhere else that has higher MFs - might not be as interested in the state of repair of the place he will not stay at. If all a person does is trade out, not doing a full renovation, not spending money to make the place nicer and not renovating as often would be mighty tempting. If an owner/trader can get 1-3 more years without a renovation, why not trade for 1-3 more years and then dump the timeshare?

The owner/user might prefer to have 1-3 years use at a fully-renovated timeshare.

Different types of owners. Hopefully the same types of priorities for the long-term future of the resort. But, human nature can be funny. Salty

DeniseM said:

I'd be happy to give you an example: Even though there are many weighty issues before the board right now, one board member's greatest concern is getting the rest of the board members to give him a special dispensation to rent a full-size car, at the SDO owner's expense, when he attends board meetings. On all other issues, he adamantly supports Starwood's recommendations, and refuses to consider any independent suggestions from the board.

That's not my idea of an independent thinker, and that's not the guy I want voting on a special assessment.

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I requested and received the minutes for the last year's worth of SDO meetings. I didn't see anything in them discussing the situation you mentioned above. The minutes are really very sparse, and don't provide the level of detail as you give above. Did I request the wrong docs?

Thanks,

Glorian

Hi Glorian - This request was made at the most recent meeting, and I have been told that the minutes are not available yet. What is the most recent date that you have?

I did a little more research:

My sources also stated that a FORMAL motion was not made, so it may or may not be in the minutes - we won't know until they come out.

I also found out that the request for a full-sized car was informally made during the meeting, the board did not approve it, and the board member was directed to make their request before the next board meeting.

grgs said:

I requested and received the minutes for the last year's worth of SDO meetings. I didn't see anything in them discussing the situation you mentioned above. The minutes are really very sparse, and don't provide the level of detail as you give above. Did I request the wrong docs?

Thanks,

Glorian

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I had no doubt that the allegations, despite the original's poster's assurances, would not be found in any minutes. The information did not come from any minutes anyone could read. The allegation could only come from someone who was there. I doubt the poster who made the allegations has ever been to SDO (although there is a claim of ownership). What candidate is local and says he goes to the meetings?

Even if a formal motion was made at the last meeting, if that motion died because of a lack of a second, it would never come to a vote and the vote would never show in the minutes of the meeting.

There is no evidence of any need to set SDO FREE. It's not now in chains. Thanks for the information. Salty

DeniseM said:

Hi Glorian - This request was made at the most recent meeting, and I have been told that the minutes are not available yet. What is the most recent date that you have?

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The last minutes I received are date 7/12/12. It is a pity that the minutes are not more detailed. Also, they reference reports that have been made, but do not attach them, or at least provide a synopsis.

Glorian

Denise, your signature/footer of "FREE the Sheraton Desert Oasis - Vote for Charles and Jody and elect an OWNER controlled board!" Free SDO from Starwood and join Villas of Cave Creek? The strong Starwood trader will immediately become a piece of worthless timeshare that one cannot get rid of. Be careful with what you wish for.

grgs said:

The last minutes I received are date 7/12/12. It is a pity that the minutes are not more detailed. Also, they reference reports that have been made, but do not attach them, or at least provide a synopsis.

Glorian

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That's why they are called minutes and not seconds. lol!

Minutes list serious issues discussed and formal actions taken by the board. Minutes are supposed to be pretty terse. They are not verbatim transcripts of what happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutes

Minutes are always at least a meeting behind (usually board meetings are held once a month). Once the meeting is held, the skeletal minutes are written up by the board secretary (usually), distributed and approved by formal vote at the following meeting. Only after formal approval are the minutes an official record of what happened at the earlier meeting and available to everyone. Salty

sptung - you misunderstand me. I am absolutely not trying to oust Starwood from management at SDO. My goal is simply to help elect independent thinkers to the board at SDO, where Starwood works for us, and not the other way around.

Trust me - Starwood wants to stay as well - they have an exclusive on reselling all the foreclosed inventory.

DeniseM said:

sptung - you misunderstand me. I am absolutely not trying to oust Starwood from management at SDO. My goal is simply to help elect independent thinkers to the board at SDO, where Starwood works for us, and not the other way around.

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[Deleted at sptung's request - DeniseM Moderator]

sptung said:

Denise, your signature/footer of "FREE the Sheraton Desert Oasis - Vote for Charles and Jody and elect an OWNER controlled board!" Free SDO from Starwood and join Villas of Cave Creek? The strong Starwood trader will immediately become a piece of worthless timeshare that one cannot get rid of. Be careful with what you wish for.

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Unfortunately, its already close to being worthless. And if fees go up 30% I assure you that you wont be able to give it away just like Sheraton Broadway Plantation.

sptung said:

You repeatedly use the phrase independent thinkers. None of the candidates are Starwood employees.

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sptung - did you read my original post? - I gave very specific details about how the current board interacts with Starwood. They rubber stamp whatever Starwood puts in front of them. I know that you have publicly stated that you believe that's how it should be - but I respectfully disagree with you.

Starwood works for the owners as represented by the BOD - we don't work for them.

DeniseM said:

sptung - did you read my original post? - I gave very specific details about how the current board interacts with Starwood. They rubber stamp whatever Starwood puts in front of them. I know that you have publicly stated that you believe that's how it should be - but I respectfully disagree with you.

Starwood works for the owners as represented by the BOD - we don't work for them.

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I read your original post. I asked for evidence of the board rubber stamping whatever Starwood puts in front of them. Your only example was the request for a rental car that was supposedly seen by you in the minutes. You made it seem that the board took the request seriously.

Now we find out it isn't in the minutes and you admit it was not even anything the SDO board cared enough about to vote on.

(Surely, you know who that board member is. I don't know. Could he be the current board member who is not seeking retention this election? If so, how will he be voting on any matters affecting the renovation after the upcoming election?)

You can like or dislike Starwood or individual board members. You can announce who you think will be the better board members. And, I guess you can even post political slogans as your signature/footer. BTW, I think the new signature/footer pretty much sums up your Moses-like position. (Set my people FREE!)

But, you should be able to point to something verifiable to support an accusation that Starwood and not the SDO board runs SDO when the facts are SDO has the lowest MF per StarOption ratio in the SVO and no SDO board member works for or has now or had at any other time any apparent additional relationship with Starwood. Salty

My question is how much is in the reserve for SDO? If the renovations are estimated at $17 million but $15-16 million is already in the reserve then the board is doing a good job operating the resort and their shouldn't be a problem coming up with a plan for the remaining amount. On the other hand if there is $3-5 million and the resort is looking to come up with another $12-15 million there is a big problem. That problem would be with Starwood if that is the case. If Starwood resort after resort has problems budgeting for normal refurbs plus a little extra for ADA modifications which most larger resorts are also dealing with, then something needs to change. It is not as though the MF's have been significantly lower than similarly located Marriott resorts but you don't hear about drastic increases when it comes time for the 10-12 year refurbs in one Hilton, Hyatt, or Marriott after another.

Hi tschwa2 - I have the budget in front of me, and I believe that the reserves are $8,774,631, if I'm reading it right. Can anyone else confirm that?

Scratch that - I don't think I'm reading it right - sorry.

I will find out and get back to you.

gmarine said:

Unfortunately, its already close to being worthless. And if fees go up 30% I assure you that you wont be able to give it away just like Sheraton Broadway Plantation.

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But it will still be a really cheap trader to trade into other Westin resorts - Maui, Kaui, HRA where their maintenance fees are still much higher than 1.3x current SDO MFs.

sptung said:

But it will still be a really cheap trader to trade into other Westin resorts - Maui, Kaui, HRA where their maintenance fees are still much higher than 1.3x current SDO MFs.

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Unfortunately you cant count on that either. The last few years Starwood and II have made changes that negatively affected the trading power of SDO and I'm afraid that wont be the last time it happens. Starwood and RCI also made changes that severely diminished the trading power of SDO.

gmarine said:

Unfortunately you cant count on that either. The last few years Starwood and II have made changes that negatively affected the trading power of SDO and I'm afraid that wont be the last time it happens. Starwood and RCI also made changes that severely diminished the trading power of SDO.

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Are you serious? Currently a 1BR SDO consistently pulls a 2BR Westin Maui and Kaui. I am not sure what more you can ask for. Continuing to keep SDO in good condition and up to par with the rest of Starwood resort standard is what will keep the trading power up.

Ken555 said:

Jim,

I am constantly amazed at your lack of tact, consideration, simple understanding, and jump to conclusions.

I have posted numerous times this year that I bought SDO recently. I haven't even had a use year yet, though I have no intention of visiting SDO in the near future. And why visit where I own? I bought this unit for trade, which is a completely acceptable use of the week. Your assumption that I, or that other, owners would want to visit where we own is not applicable to all. It may be good for you, and you may even think it's a requirement for ownership...but it's not.

I asked a reasonable question, and you responded by insulting me with your insinuation that I should know more about the resort where I own. If I, or others, are made to feel attacked by asking reasonable questions, all you accomplish is prevent those (who don't want to engage you at all by responding, as I am doing now against my better judgment) from speaking up and asking questions in the first place. You really need to think before you write and try to comprehend how your post may be interpreted. There are any number of ways you could have written a polite, considerate response - especially since you've been to this resort and have first hand knowledge of the status of its upkeep.

Next time, be aware of what you write and how best you want it considered. Hopefully, you will not respond to this because if you do, I'm sure in the next ~10 resulting posts this thread will be locked.

Ken

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C'mon ken, I am a serial trader with no intentions of ever staying at a resort I own, but I can appreciate sarcastic humor. Even had the comment been directed at me, I would have gotten a hearty chuckle out of his post.

jarta said:

Ken, ... Sorry you don't like my posting style. I tell it like I see it.

Trading out is an acceptable use of the week. So is staying at the resort for the week. But, owner/users and owner/traders may have differing points of view about the extent, quality and timing of renovations.

Someone who buys only for the low MF with no intention to stay at the resort - but only to trade somewhere else that has higher MFs - might not be as interested in the state of repair of the place he will not stay at. If all a person does is trade out, not doing a full renovation, not spending money to make the place nicer and not renovating as often would be mighty tempting. If an owner/trader can get 1-3 more years without a renovation, why not trade for 1-3 more years and then dump the timeshare?

The owner/user might prefer to have 1-3 years use at a fully-renovated timeshare.

Different types of owners. Hopefully the same types of priorities for the long-term future of the resort. But, human nature can be funny. Salty

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I am one of those types of owners you indict, but you make very poignant points indeed. I would give deference to those owners who occupy rather than trade, because on the surface I would presume them to care more about the resort than the trading power, whose interests do not necessarily coincide.

jarta said:

I read your original post. I asked for evidence of the board rubber stamping whatever Starwood puts in front of them. Your only example was the request for a rental car that was supposedly seen by you in the minutes. You made it seem that the board took the request seriously.

Now we find out it isn't in the minutes and you admit it was not even anything the SDO board cared enough about to vote on.

(Surely, you know who that board member is. I don't know. Could he be the current board member who is not seeking retention this election? If so, how will he be voting on any matters affecting the renovation after the upcoming election?)

You can like or dislike Starwood or individual board members. You can announce who you think will be the better board members. And, I guess you can even post political slogans as your signature/footer. BTW, I think the new signature/footer pretty much sums up your Moses-like position. (Set my people FREE!)

But, you should be able to point to something verifiable to support an accusation that Starwood and not the SDO board runs SDO when the facts are SDO has the lowest MF per StarOption ratio in the SVO and no SDO board member works for or has now or had at any other time any apparent additional relationship with Starwood. Salty

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You are like the Starwood Jesus today. Turning over the moneychanger's tables and preaching the truth, but being dissed and dismissed by the self-professed elders and sages nonetheless. A prophet is not without honor accept in his own hometown among his own people. Preach brother.

Beefnot said:

C'mon ken, I am a serial trader with no intentions of ever staying at a resort I own, but I can appreciate sarcastic humor. Even had the comment been directed at me, I would have gotten a hearty chuckle out of his post.

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If it was sarcastic, I'd be with you. Unfortunately, I don't think you interpreted it correctly. I wish you were right.

Sheraton Desert Oasis, Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Association

I would like to provide some clarity on topics related to the SDO board, which is actually called Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Association.

1. In October, the board approved a revised reserves plan to accelerate refurbishment of kitchens and baths to 2013 and 2014. This work will be combined with the work required to bring us into compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. The current estimate is $17 million. We have $10 million in reserves. To cover the additional cost, maintenance fees were increased about 7% in 2012 and will increase over the next 2 years as follows: 12% (2013), 8% (2014). Then in 2015, there will be a 12% reduction in maintenance fees. At this stage, we are obtaining competitive bids for review at our next board meeting October 17. The project includes all new furniture, upgrade the lock-offs from queen to king beds, replace the 2-person Jacuzzis (we are told its hard to find parts) with standard 1-person Jacuzzis, replace the outdated Space Capsule tub/showers with modern tub/showers, replace the small refrigerators with standard size refrigerators, and much more. I have asked for bids to include options that we can select/deselect regarding the various upgrades to determine the cost impact. I am also concerned that we are asking current owners to foot the bill for future owners. This economy caused our delinquency rate to skyrocket and we have about 2,000 association-owned intervals to sell over the next year or two. It might be better to postpone the project until we have more owners to share in the cost. Our existing owners have been carrying the load of higher maintenance fees caused by delinquencies and it seems unfair to ask them to carry this $17 million load also. Unfortunately, my fellow board members are happy to move forward with Starwood’s recommendation for this $17 million project right now, with little or no additional discussion.

2. The demographic profile of the current board is not in alignment with our owner population. More than half of our owners are local to the Phoenix area, but all board members live out-of-state. All board members are well-to-do and over 50 with no kids at home, I am concerned that we have nobody representing the interests of our younger members with kids seeking economical vacations and economical timeshare ownership.

3. Late last year, Starwood offered us $400,000 for exclusive rights to our Associations inventory for the next 3 years. Also, Starwood offered $800 for each interval that the developer (Starwood) picks. Unfortunately, the association must use that $800 toward the foreclosure costs. The association must continue to pay the maintenance fees until one year after the intervals are sold. This represents lost revenue of over $5 million over the duration of the contract. Starwood is NOT obligated to buy any intervals for the 3 year period and has NOTHING at risk. This inventory represents about 2,000 intervals, and at current Starwood retail prices, exceeds $30 million. Starwood has the option to get $30 million inventory for only $2 million ($400,000+$800*2,000). When I suggested we seek alternative proposals, my fellow board members told me not to upset Starwood by seeking competitive proposals because they might withdraw their offer.

4. At our last board meeting on Thursday, July 12, it was suggested that rental cars be limited to a maximum of a mid-size/intermediate vehicle. Board member, John Cummins, complained that this was too restrictive for him and he needed to have a full-size car. Starwood told him the policy was only a guide and he could request an exception.

I hope this provides the background and details needed to gain a better understanding of some issues mentioned in this thread regarding SDO and the Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Association.

Regards,
Keith Terry, PMP
President, Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Association

http://www.linkedin.com/in/keithterry Salty

I have asked for bids to include options that we can select/deselect regarding the various upgrades to determine the cost impact. I am also concerned that we are asking current owners to foot the bill for future owners.

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If you are concerned the SDO board is is asking current owners to pay for improvements that will be used by future owners, has the board (or you) explored the possibility of a loan to be used to fund the portion of the improvements not covered by current reserves? Such a loan might be structured to be repaid over the term of the loan and secured by a promise to pay the loan out of future assessments. The resort/borrower would have to promise to balance the budget and establish a separate account for monthly payments of a portion of the assessments at the lender's institution.

Or, is the deinquency situation so bad that no bank would approve such an SDO loan because of the MF deficiency rate?

If no bank would approve the loan and the board refuses to halt or delay the renovation, what are the projected or added financial costs to the resort from down-sizing or delaying the renovation?

Has Starwood demanded a renovation as the price of SDO remaining in the SVN? If so, what is your position on going forward with the renovation? Is the board position a different position?

The terms of the Starwood offer to purchase the foreclosed inventory which is the board's responsibility (and a further economic drain) are indeed steep. Has the board considered voluntarily leaving the Starwood SVN system and joining another timeshare system or going it alone?

The economy has given SDO (and many other timeshare resorts) a punch in the solar plexus. You and the rest of the SDO board have some very difficult decisions to make about which way to go for the resort you own. GLTY. Salty

holoholo said:

I hope this provides the background and details needed to gain a better understanding of some issues mentioned in this thread regarding SDO and the Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Association.

Regards,
Keith Terry, PMP
President, Scottsdale Pinnacle Owners Association

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Thanks for contributing! The background and details of the decisions confronting the HOA and the manner in which decisions are being made is very helpful at understanding the issues confronting the board. I shouldn't be surprised, but am, at the 'deal' Starwood is demanding of the board - as an owner, I see absolutely no reason to agree to it and encourage you to keep up the good fight. Starwood needs to assume some risk or be left out of the deal. And should the board decide it's best for owners to leave Starwood, I wouldn't oppose it (and I bought simply for trading purposes...but it makes no sense to be taken advantage of in such an extreme manner as Starwood is requesting).