Resale - Week 52 Annual WKORV 2BR OV

Hi, I'm a newbie.

I posted a few days ago about almost buying an annual 2BR IV at WKORV for $10k (assuming it would have passed ROFR) and Tuggers saved me from what would have been a bad purchase and also made good points about when I would realistically be able to travel given my child's school schedule (not to mention our work schedules).

I know the TUG advice is to research and wait for 6 months before buying but when I'm focused on a project, waiting is not an option. Perhaps I should see someone about that .

I'm now considering buying a Week 52 Annual 2BR OV, Floating Unit at WKORV for $27.5k. I know I can get the 148,100 points for a lot less but I'm not buying for the points. I'm buying to get a guaranteed week during the holidays when we're off from work and school and can travel and that has high rental value when we can't use it. My question is whether $27.5k is a fair price? It seems like a decent price but I couldn't find any data on Week 52 resales as a point of comparison. Also, would the rental value for the week be close to $5.5k?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and insights.

-TLO

Sorry, forgot one more question. I understand for floating weeks and units that the quality of the room is based on date of reservation. The earlier you reserve, the better your room. Is this the same true for Week 52 floating units, i.e., if I call 12 months before to confirm, I should be able to get a better unit and view?

Thanks-
TLO

The rooms are all the same quality - they are all identical.

Do you mean to say the earlier you reserve, the better your VIEW will be? Since this is a fixed week, you don't actually reserve it - it is automatically reserved for you.

Yes, I meant a better view. I understand I don't have to reserve and they will hold a unit for me but I don't want to end up in a fictional OV unit. My agent (who is well-respected on TUG but who I won't name since a deal is in the works) told me that the Starwood system date stamps the reservations so that when it comes time to assign rooms, they go down the list in order and those who reserve earlier get the better rooms. My agent will be calling Starwood to ask whether the same applies to Week 52 floating units but also wanted to hear what Tuggers think.

Any thoughts on my other questions?

Hi again TLO,

I'm not sure what is passing ROFR on week 52 for WKORV OV, but I recall seeing a few selling prices of $25k in the last few months.

One word of caution about traveling week 52, is the high airfares. We have traveled several times during week 52 and airfares can be much higher and saver mileage awards are nonexistent. Rental cars are more expensive as well. It can be a more costly time to travel period. Just something else to consider.

Villa Rental rates are higher for week 52 should you rent your week out. Not as high as a few years ago but in the $4,000-$4,500 range for South OV week 52 is realistic.

I would buy an OV at North before I'd buy OV South. Better OV's at North for the most part.

Lots to consider to make a smart purchase. Buying in is the easy part, getting out can be the hard part should you change your mind or your situation changes.

We love Hawaii and we make the long & costly journey there as often as we can.

Good luck!
-Kathleen

Words from an older timeshare owner

No newbie wants to listen to good advise. They just want to do want they want to do. A lovely unit is not a good deal for $10,000. Suddenly it is perfectly ok for $27,000 provided it is Christmas. The perfectly good advise was to rent and learn first before you buy. But no newbie wants to hear that. Let's play want if. Why buy for all that money, when any Christmas at Westin Maui you can rent for $4,000-$5000. It makes sense not to spend $27,000 now. Every newbie says it is only $27,000 and I can live with a mistake if it should happen. It won't kill me. Oh yes,
every newbie always loves the first location they go to. I often go to the Westin Maui, but truth be known I prefer the Marriot Napilli down the beach both as to location and room amenities and view. How can that be, easy I purchased a Westin so I need to use it every year, so some years its Westin Maui and some years I stay at my Napilli. Oh yes, after owning in Maui since 1985 I have also come to appreciate other locations such as Hyatt Carmel, or Marriott Paris Disney World, it is hard for someone who owns an event week in Maui to find a trade for an event week in Carmel as compared to simply renting one for $ 500 over someone's maintenance fee.

I return to the good advise that "you should investigate and learn and stay at at least 6 different timeshares before you get married to your first one". Did I make that slip, I guess my age is showing.

Welcome to timesharing. I truly enjoy it as all us tuggers do. But there is no one timeshare that is perfect for you, so the more you experience the more you are likely to acquire not the first timeshare you fell in love with, but the one that really fits you and your family.

RichardL said:

Suddenly it is perfectly ok for $27,000 provided it is Christmas. The perfectly good advise was to rent and learn first before you buy. But no newbie wants to hear that. Let's play want if. Why buy for all that money, when any Christmas at Westin Maui you can rent for $4,000-$5000. It makes sense not to spend $27,000 now.

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I think the OP would be looking at 10+ years before the "buy vs. rent" decision makes sense with those numbers, by the time you factor in annual MFs...

I would say that the Avg. rent for that week would be more like $4,200 - $4,500.

I absolutely understand that it's a stress reliever to not have to worry about getting a nice villa. That is exactly why I bought a timeshare at WKORV. After staying at the Renaissance Wailea OF suite (which was sweet, but just a hotel room) and a privately owned condo at Ka'anapali Shores, we pulled the trigger on WKORV-N because we knew that it was nice and would remain nice. When inviting guests along, it was a huge relief to know that our guests would not only like the place, but would be delighted with the place. And, without exception, they have been.

I would reiterate the caution about airfare. It's a big consideration. We couldn't find anyone to join us on our summer 2010 trip because airfare (coach!) was $1100 pp. That priced many families out. Also I reiterate KSharpe's advice to know going in that during holiday weeks everything from the airfare to the rental cars to the lodging are higher.

With all this in mind, IF you have the disposable income for such a luxury purchase, and it will make you happy, then $27.5k is a fair price for week 52 given current market price for that resort and week. Economically, it's not the best deal out there, but sometimes you want to take the hot girl to prom, even if you know that the love isn't mutual.

Good luck in your decision.

P.S. If I were going with OV, I'd definitely go with the north property, if it's available for the same price. But if you're going to be organized and call at 9am EDT 365 days out to book it (which, as you know, will be in the middle of the night in Hawaii), then you should get a decent villa.

DeniseM said:

The rooms are all the same quality - they are all identical.

Do you mean to say the earlier you reserve, the better your VIEW will be? Since this is a fixed week, you don't actually reserve it - it is automatically reserved for you.

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I believe I have this right.
A "fixed week" must be reserved by the owner at WKORV.
A fixed week provides for an "exclusive right to reserve". Time/date stamp still applies.

"auto book" is an ULTRA Premium ownership. Don't have to call.

Fredm said:

I believe I have this right.
A "fixed week" must be reserved by the owner at WKORV.
A fixed week provides for an "exclusive right to reserve". Time/date stamp still applies.

"auto book" is an ULTRA Premium ownership. Don't have to call.

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Thank you Fred - I had an owner tell me that their week was automatically reserved for them, and I was going by that.

TLO,

I can understand loving WKORV and wanting to reserve and travel when you want. That's why we purchased there instead of trading in.

If you are willing to pay $27,500 for OV South week 52, I recommend you consider buying one of the following which may provide a better fit for your family's travel needs.

1. South-OF Deluxe-(if you can handle the higher MF's-$800 yr)-$30k
2. South-OF Center-$30-$34k
3. North-OF- $22-$25k
4. North-OV-$15k

OF South will always have the best rental value.

There is even on EOY North OF on Redweek for $10,900 right now. Don't know what will pass ROFR. Fredm or Syed would have best info on that.

Maybe an EOY would be a good way to get your feet wet so to speak. Then you could add another EOY at a later date.

You are getting lots of great advise from the other Tuggers. You can't go wrong by stepping in slowly.

-Kathleen

P.S. After traveling again this year over week 52, we will not travel again during that time. Just too expensive, too crowded, too crazy. We have travelled to Kauai, Maui, Grand Cayman, Palm Springs & Miami Beach during week 52 in the past. All trips were more difficult & costly than a non week 52 trip to the same place.

DeniseM said:

Thank you Fred - I had an owner tell me that their week was automatically reserved for them, and I was going by that.

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I have both a fixed week and an event week at WKORV-N and both are reserved for me automatically well in advance of 12 months (more like 18 months).

I don't see how a fixed week would have any value if it wasn't reserved for you in advance. If you didn't call at 365 days at 9AM and the resort sold out, then you wouldn't really have a fixed week, right?

pathways25 said:

I have both a fixed week and an event week at WKORV-N and both are reserved for me automatically well in advance of 12 months (more like 18 months).

I don't see how a fixed week would have any value if it wasn't reserved for you in advance. If you didn't call at 365 days at 9AM and the resort sold out, then you wouldn't really have a fixed week, right?

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This is my understanding, too.

Weeks 51 & 52 are fixed event weeks and are reserved automatically by the resort. No phone call is needed or is beneficial to the owner. I own a week 51 & 52(OV) and even at that, you are not given any priority as to which units you will be in.

undrpar64 said:

Weeks 51 & 52 are fixed event weeks and are reserved automatically by the resort. No phone call is needed or is beneficial to the owner. I own a week 51 & 52(OV) and even at that, you are not given any priority as to which units you will be in.

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Will they allow you to put in a request - like a building and a high or low floor?

undrpar64 said:

Weeks 51 & 52 are fixed event weeks and are reserved automatically by the resort. No phone call is needed or is beneficial to the owner. I own a week 51 & 52(OV) and even at that, you are not given any priority as to which units you will be in.

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My bad. Christmas and New Years are Event Weeks.
No reservation required.

"Fixed" vacation period requires a reservation.

undrpar64 said:

Weeks 51 & 52 are fixed event weeks and are reserved automatically by the resort. No phone call is needed or is beneficial to the owner. I own a week 51 & 52(OV) and even at that, you are not given any priority as to which units you will be in.

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I know it costs an additional premium to fix the specific villa in addition to fixing the week. But if you don't pay for a fixed unit (and I don't think they'll even let a resale owner do this), any idea how they assign which unit you will be in? I'd assume they'd start with 5* elites and move down from there, but I wonder how they'd assign priority to single week owners?

I have put in requests before asking for highest floor and and nearest ocean and I can not see that it makes any difference. You would think that by buying say unit 2624 2 bdr that you would get that unit since it is the only one sold for that event week. Not so. I have never stayed in the unit purchased yet. Oh well. Just being on Maui during that time(even though it is busy) is something I cherish and look forward to every year. Both of my children and their wife and husband are bound by school schedules.

Here is a run down of the various types of Special Vacation Period ownerships (other than floating) at WKORV:

Fixed Vacation Period - Owner must reserve the fixed use-week by the deadline stated in the Reservation rules. Otherwise, reverts to floating reservation rights, based on availability.

ULTRA Vacation Period - Plan Operator automatically reserves the fixed use-week. Owner must contact the Plan Operator at least 30 days prior to check-in date to confirm reservation. Otherwise, Plan Operator may cancel the automatic reservation. If it does, owner may reserve a floating week, subject to availability.

ULTRA Premium Vacation Period - Plan Operator automatically reserves the fixed use-week. No confirmation required.

Event Vacation Period - Plan Operator automatically reserves for the owner. No confirmation required.

The following are defined as Event Weeks at WKORV:

New Years Week (the last use-week of the year)

Christmas Week ( the next to last use-week of the year).

Golden Week (the week it is recognized in Japan as a national holiday). April 29, and May 3, 4, & 5. The week that includes the most number of these dates will be deemed to be Golden Week at the resort.

Obon Week (the week that includes August 15, a religious holiday in Japan).

Temporary Floating Use -Owners of Fixed, ULTRA, ULTRA Premium, and Event Vacation Periods may give up their special use rights in any use-year, and instead be treated like a floating use owner for that use-year.

Fixed Unit Use Rights - Fixed, ULTRA/Premium, and Event Vacation Period owners may also have a Fixed Unit Use Right.
An owner automatically gives up the fixed unit right if:
A Fixed Vacation Period owner does not make a reservation by the deadline specified in the Reservation Rules.
A Ultra Vacation Period owner does not confirm the reservation at least 30 days before check-in date.
Ultra Premium and Event Vacation Period owners do not have a reservation/confirmation requirement. Fixed Unit Use rights cannot be cancelled unless they elect Temporary Floating Use Rights.

Finally,

Here is what the WKORV Governing Documets say about
"LIMITS on NUMBER of SPECIAL VACATION PERIODS:
No more than fifty percent (50%) of the Vacation Ownership Interests in any Vacation Unit may have a Fixed Vacation Period, an Event Vacation Period, an Ultra Vacation Period, or an Ultra Premium Vacation Period. To be clear, at least fifty percent (50%) of the Vacation Ownership Interests in each Vacation Unit must have a Floating Vacation Period."

The way this is written (or how I read it), at least 50% of Chrismas and New Year weeks must remain for floating use owners. If this has been amended, I can't find it.

Fred,

As a non-event, floating week owner, I have never been allowed to reserve or waitlist for the weeks of Christmas or New Year at WKORV/WKORVN. Those weeks are not available to reserve to non-event week owners. Thus 50% of them are not set aside for that purpose. When I have called to ask, the service reps clearly state that they cannot take reservations for those weeks, unless I am the owner of one of those weeks.

The sales people explained this at the time I bought. I was OK with that when I bought my VOIs. I may want to go some year, but usually airfare is also difficult and expensive to find. Thus, I go when it is less busy and don't mind the restriction.

I think the confusion is with what a 'unit' is. My understanding is that the unit refers to whatever apartment number appears on the title, and doesn't refer to the week. In my case I own a 1/52 interest of unit 263031. It is possible for SVN to sell all of weeks 1-17, 51 and 52 for my unit as fixed and they will still be within the 50% limit since 33 weeks are still floating. There is nothing that I can see that puts a limit on how the fixed weeks line up across units. In the extreme SVN could sell 26 weeks at the resort entirely as fixed and 26 weeks as entirely floating, making two seasons.

emuyshondt said:

Fred,

As a non-event, floating week owner, I have never been allowed to reserve or waitlist for the weeks of Christmas or New Year at WKORV/WKORVN. Those weeks are not available to reserve to non-event week owners. Thus 50% of them are not set aside for that purpose. When I have called to ask, the service reps clearly state that they cannot take reservations for those weeks, unless I am the owner of one of those weeks.

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Yep, I know that.
What I wrote is a verbatum quote from the WKORV Governing Documents.
I found it very interesting. It does appear to be at varience with how it is being administered.

Like I said, if it has been amended I can't find it.

maph said:

I think the confusion is with what a 'unit' is. My understanding is that the unit refers to whatever apartment number appears on the title, and doesn't refer to the week. In my case I own a 1/52 interest of unit 263031. It is possible for SVN to sell all of weeks 1-17, 51 and 52 for my unit as fixed and they will still be within the 50% limit since 33 weeks are still floating. There is nothing that I can see that puts a limit on how the fixed weeks line up across units. In the extreme SVN could sell 26 weeks at the resort entirely as fixed and 26 weeks as entirely floating, making two seasons.

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Scratch my prior intepretation. You are absolutely right. Funny how the mind works sometimes

Thanks to everyone who responded with helpful information. I appreciate it.