Delta cancels flight - big schedule change question

3kids4me · Nov 3, 2006

Hi,

We were booked on a flight leaving New York at noon, going to LAX (Christmas week). This morning I noticed that the flight had been cancelled and we were now on a flight leaving at 8:30 in the morning.

Since this would be a difficult flight for us to do, what are my options? Delta at first told me that could put us on another airline that leaves at the same time the original tickets were for, but then they changed their minds and said they could not do that for a "schedule change". Of course they would be happy to refund my money (and probably resell the ticket for twice as much) but that doesn't help me at all either.

What's really annoying is that the flight we are on now was cheaper; I chose the later flight because of the time and paid more for it....

Thanks for any advice,

Sharon

charford · Nov 3, 2006

Hi Sharon

I've had to deal with this quite a few times lately with Northwest and United.

Tell them that the schedule change that THEY made to the tickets YOU purchased is not acceptable. Tell them what you want. Insist that they give you tickets on a flight that is leaving at a time convenient for you. If you can only leave between noon and 4 p.m., for example, let them know. Don't ask. Tell. Be firm, but not angry. They should be able to accomodate you. While you're at it, get seats.

I don't know when your dates are, but looking on Orbitz for that week, there are tickets on Delta flights leaving out of JFK direct to LAX at 7 a.m., 11:55 a.m., 4:35 p.m. and 6:10 p.m. on Dec. 26. Sometimes airline people can be a little dense and not offer you an 11:55 a.m. flight when you are asking for a noon flight. :wall:

Good luck. Stand firm.

3kids4me · Nov 3, 2006

Hi and thanks.

That day, there are only two non-stop Delta flights from JFK (or even LGA), at 8:30 a.m. and 4:30 p.m. (December 23rd). Do you see something different?

Thanks,

Sharon

Bill4728 · Nov 3, 2006

There is an 11:30 JFK to Long beach on Jet blue for $400, so you could ask delta for them to book you or get a refund and do it yourself.

We love flying into LB. It is a tiny airport and therefore not at all buzy.

Steamboat Bill · Nov 3, 2006

Thats funny...my flight from Fort Lauderdale to Monterey in 2 weeks via SLC got cancelled and they gave me a new flight with a connection leaving earlier than I arrive! When I called, it took over 30 minutes to fix and the times are no where as convienant as the original flights. This is beginning to suck.

camachinist · Nov 3, 2006

Code:

21	Delta	1841	B757-200	JFK/11:55a	LAX/03:18p

Is this the cancelled flight we're talking about?

Code:

11	Delta	1459	B757-200	JFK/08:35a	LAX/12:09p

Is this the prospective replacement?

Knowing dates would be helpful.

Pat

Hoc · Nov 3, 2006

You fall under Rule 80 of the Contract of Carriage on Delta. Here is the complete contract. Unfortunately, airlines have given fewer and fewer rights to passengers since deregulation, and you are in one of the grey areas. The contract calls it a "schedule irregularity" where a flight is cancelled within 24 hours of departure. It calls it a "change of schedule" where there is a cancelled flight and no alternative flight within 90 minutes.

In either case, you have the right to be flown on another carrier if the change results in a delay in your arrival. But the rules are not clear where it would result in an earlier departure. You can read the actual Rule 80 so that you can understand your rights, and being forearmed with those rights, see whether you can come up with something that will work for you.

Edit: Regardless, you do have a right to a refund without charges in this case.

Hoc · Nov 3, 2006

Bill4728 said:
There is an 11:30 JFK to Long beach on Jet blue for $400, so you could ask delta for them to book you or get a refund and do it yourself.

We love flying into LB. It is a tiny airport and therefore not at all buzy.

Sharon--

Where is your final destination? Long Beach is more convenient to Orange County (including Newport Beach) or San Diego County, anyway, and it's a much easier airport to negotiate. Only if you are planning to go to the Malibu or Central or Northern California areas will Long Beach be less convenient. Also, with JetBlue, at least you and the kids will be able to watch satellite TV on the flight.

camachinist · Nov 3, 2006

Hoc, I think DL is also within their rights to refund without recourse if the customer doesn't agree to the changes. IOW, the customer can't "force" Delta to put them on another flight if theirs is cancelled.

I've found, with knowledge of alternatives and finding the proper agent, usually resolution is quite painless. Without knowing the OP's full situation, it's hard to give specific advice. I've found, when dealing with such agents, one often has to walk them through the process, or, alternatively, call back as often as necessary to find a competent one.

Personally, I doubt Delta will interline/endorse, with the exception being if they cancelled the flight on short notice, like a few hours.

Pat

3kids4me · Nov 3, 2006

Thank you both.

Our final destination is Anaheim, so Long Beach would be great. However, our tickets cost about $375 per person at the time, so this is what they would be refunding if I were to ask for a refund...perhaps they would split it in two if I were to ask for a refund of the outbound portion only. So, booking Jet Blue flight for $400 one way would not be practical. In fact, there is probably nothing at this late date that isn't way higher than the price we originally paid.

Pat...the date is December 23rd, and yes, that is the flight "change" that you pulled up in your post.

Thanks again...it certainly does sound like all I would have a right to is a refund of some indeterminate amount, but likely nothing that I could turn around and use on another, more convenient flight.

I did ask Delta to put us on an American flight that leaves around noon that day, but they would not. They also have no Delta direct flights that leave near the original time into any other airport in that area, from any other airport in my area.

It's amazing that an airline can make such a dramatic change and get away with it, especially since the noon flight originally cost a lot more money!

Sharon

Icarus · Nov 4, 2006

Delta sucks. Because of your cheap fare, you're stuck on the earlier flight. You can get a refund if you don't want to go, but I seriously doubt they will convert it to a one way just for the return portion and refund a portion of your ticket. They would probably refare it as a one-way ticket and it would cost much more than the round trip you have currently.

I tried pricing JFK - Long Beach r/t on Jetblue, guessing at 12/30 for the return date. I can't believe how expensive they are for those dates. I also looked on expedia, and the lowest fare for a non-stop flight was around $621+ on Delta, of course. There were cheaper options with 1 or 2 stops, but I'm sure that's not an option for you.

I guess you have to decide if you can make the earlier times work for your kids or not.

-David

calgal · Nov 4, 2006

I think you should consider taking the 4:30PM nonstop. It will help you adjust to West coast time, no morning stress getting to the airport from Conn to JFK by 7AM, and really would make the departure day much less stressful.
You would probably arrive in LAX at 7:30 or so, be in your timeshare by 9PM, and the kids would go to sleep on CA time. Also, they could nap in the car from airport-timeshare if they are exhausted. I would prefer that to the early morning rushing and stress.

3kids4me · Nov 4, 2006

Delta does suck. David, thanks for checking options!

Calgal, while it does sound appealing not to have to rush to the airport really early, there are other concerns, such as delays due to weather and getting to the timeshare really late...we're not staying at the nicest timeshare and my understanding is that getting there late might mean a really undesirable unit. There is also the car rental issue...I got a great deal on a rental, and when I tried to change the time once they wanted to re-price. I can chance coming in a few hours early and hoping they just give me a car for the same price, but coming in really late at night might be a whole other story....

Delta offered me a flight for the day before, but that means pulling this kids out of school and also finding a place to stay in Anaheim for one night....

Not sure what to do yet at this point, but I don't think I'll be flying Delta again in the near future!

Sharon

Hoc · Nov 4, 2006

Sharon--

How about sending one of you (Hubby comes to mind) on the earlier flight, so that s/he can get a better room, and the rest of you go on the later flight? Or is getting to the airport an issue?

3kids4me · Nov 4, 2006

Hoc,

Not sure if husband is going with us yet, but an idea worth considering! (Actually, I also have a cousin in Anaheim that I could send, although she may not really know what to look for in a timeshare unit....)

Sharon

MikeM132 · Nov 4, 2006

Something like this just happened to me on AA for next March. I was looking at getting one more ticket (son's new fiancee) and found out the whole flight thing was totally different (going from Newark to Fla via Chicago now with long layovers). AA was great about it and offered to change me to pretty much anything available that would be more convenient. Now I am booked (unless they change it again) out of Philly, which was more money. Maybe Delta will do the same thing for you?

3kids4me · Nov 5, 2006

Thanks Mike. Yes, I think Delta would move us to another flight that would be more convenient; the problem is that there are none on Delta, only on other airlines. Delta simply no longer has a direct flight out of a nearby airport that leaves in the middle of the day. It's a bummer.

JudyH · Nov 5, 2006

What if you get to NY Fri night and stay at a close airport hotel with a shuttle? Sometimes we do that for very early flights. Sometimes they have a good room/park the car deal.

arlene22 · Nov 5, 2006

Been there... feel your pain

I ran into this problem with Delta last year. I bought a cheap direct flight to the Bahamas 330 days in advance. A couple of months before travel, they started the monkey business. They cancelled the flight and put me on a flight with connections. Like you, this was unacceptable to me, but a refund didn't help as all other flights were more expensive at that point. They had us over a barrel. A few days later, they added a nonstop flight and started selling it. I asked to be put on that and they did it. Then when that flight was full, they cancelled that one and put everyone on a flight with stops. (This time, they gave us a seat assignment in a row that didn't actually exist on that aircraft.) A few days later, they added another nonstop flight and started selling it. I called and asked to be switched to it and they did. So in the end, we did get on a nonstop flight, but it was a LOT of trouble and I will never choose Delta again.

So my advice would be to keep checking the schedule to see if they add another direct flight and ask to be moved to that one. Also (and this one is hard), above all, do not lose your temper with the person on the phone. No matter how ticked off you are. They will notate in your file that you are a jerk (even if they are ones who are jerks) and you won't get anything from them. Make them think you are the nicest person they've ever talked to on the phone and they will find a way to make you happy.

Good luck!

irish · Nov 5, 2006

this is why i no longer book delta flights.

camachinist · Nov 6, 2006

3kids4me said:
Thanks Mike. Yes, I think Delta would move us to another flight that would be more convenient; the problem is that there are none on Delta, only on other airlines. Delta simply no longer has a direct flight out of a nearby airport that leaves in the middle of the day. It's a bummer.

IMO, the moral here (yes, I know, water under the bridge):

1. Know your options before talking to the airline

2. Be flexible

3. Always post the most complete travel profile possible when asking for advice

I just checked Seatcounter and Delta is a sea of red for 12/23. If I had known the dates when the OP was first posted I would have said take the DL1459 change and figure out the other parameters, like rental car. See, in my mind, a rental car holds many people for one money, whereas airline is many people and many moneys

Right now all I'm seeing is Y/B on DL1845 and Y on DL1025 and zippety doo-da on DL1459, which was the replacement offered, I'm assuming.

You can get DL1841 right now for 12/22- seeing M/H buckets at 9's

5 Delta 1841 B757-200 JFK/11:40a LAX/03:03p 4 9 5 9 0 0 9 0 0 0 9

Whatever you decide, I'd do it soon...

Good luck!

Pat

3kids4me · Nov 6, 2006

camachinist said:
IMO, the moral here (yes, I know, water under the bridge):

1. Know your options before talking to the airline

2. Be flexible

3. Always post the most complete travel profile possible when asking for advice

I just checked Seatcounter and Delta is a sea of red for 12/23. If I had known the dates when the OP was first posted I would have said take the DL1459 change and figure out the other parameters, like rental car. See, in my mind, a rental car holds many people for one money, whereas airline is many people and many moneys

Right now all I'm seeing is Y/B on DL1845 and Y on DL1025 and zippety doo-da on DL1459, which was the replacement offered, I'm assuming.

You can get DL1841 right now for 12/22- seeing M/H buckets at 9's

Whatever you decide, I'd do it soon...

Good luck!

Pat

Don't worry Pat, we are on the 1459 already, with seats assigned. I just wanted to know what my rights were regarding trying to be placed on another airline. (I did call back and try for the rule 80 exception, and of course the folks don't even know what I'm talking about, and I'm sure don't care much. We are already flagged for traveling with someone who has special needs.)

Option right now I guess is to bite the bullet, hope they reinstitute a noonish flight (which one Delta rep told me has happened...it is awfully weird that they have them the day before and after), or cancel the trip.

Next time, no Delta, and I travel on Sundays only which seems to always have a lot more options.

Sharon

camachinist · Nov 6, 2006

Considering the high load factors, it is odd that they'd cancel the mid-day, but the vagaries of Delta (or any airline for that matter) are a mystery to me. Glad to see that your instincts were good. Knowing DL and how things often go at JFK, your earlier flight may become the noon flight

In case they have difficulties the day of flight and will accomodate you, here's some options, of course subject to change

Airline Flt Aircraft Depart Arrive Availability by Booking Class (by class)
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W Y Z
1 American 3 B767 JFK/12:00p LAX/03:05p 0 7 1 3 0 5 1 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7
2 US Airways 6619(1) B757-200 JFK/01:55p LAX/05:06p 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4
3 United 27 B757-200 JFK/01:55p LAX/05:06p 6 9 9 8 0 9 0 0 0 0 9 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 8
4 Alaska 1747(3) B767 JFK/12:00p LAX/03:05p 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 7
5 Qantas 3094(3) B767 JFK/12:00p LAX/03:05p 0 9 0 0 9 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
6 United 25 B757-200 JFK/11:30a LAX/02:41p 2 9 9 9 8 7 0 0 0 0 9 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 9 9
7 US Airways 6617(1) B757-200 JFK/11:30a LAX/02:41p 4 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4
8 Air New Zealand 9149(1) B757-200 JFK/01:55p LAX/05:06p 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 2
9 Alaska 1817(3) B767 JFK/02:25p LAX/05:30p 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 7 7 0 0 7

Available Seats by Booking Class
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W Y Z
10 Qantas 3184(3) B767 JFK/04:00p LAX/07:10p 0 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 0 0 0 9 0 0 9
11 Alaska 6086(2) B757-200 JFK/08:20a LAX/11:54a 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 American 133 B767 JFK/04:00p LAX/07:10p 0 7 7 7 0 7 7 7 7 6 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 7
13 Alaska 1822(3) B767 JFK/04:00p LAX/07:10p 7 7 0 0 0 0 7 0 7 0 0 7
14 American 117 B767 JFK/02:25p LAX/05:30p 0 7 7 7 0 7 7 7 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7
15 Qantas 3030(3) B767 JFK/02:25p LAX/05:30p 0 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
16 Air New Zealand 9147(1) B757-200 JFK/11:30a LAX/02:41p 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 2
17 American 245 B767 JFK/10:00a LAX/01:10p 0 5 0 7 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6
18 American 33 B767 JFK/07:35a LAX/10:55a 0 7 7 0 0 7 7 7 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7

Available Seats by Booking Class
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W Y Z
19 Alaska 1797(3) B767 JFK/07:35a LAX/10:55a 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 7
20 Qantas 3096(3) B767 JFK/07:35a LAX/10:55a 0 9 9 9 0 9 9 9 9 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 9
21 Delta 1025 B757-200 JFK/07:00a LAX/10:22a 9 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
22 Alaska 6079(2) B757-200 JFK/07:00a LAX/10:22a 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
23 US Airways 6609(1) B757-200 JFK/07:00a LAX/10:21a 4 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4
24 Air New Zealand 9141(1) B757-200 JFK/07:00a LAX/10:21a 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 2
25 Delta 1459 B757-200 JFK/08:20a LAX/11:54a 2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3
26 Air New Zealand 9143(1) B757-200 JFK/08:30a LAX/11:51a 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 2
27 Alaska 1201(3) B767 JFK/10:00a LAX/01:10p 0 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 7

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W Y Z
28 Qantas 3110(3) B767 JFK/10:00a LAX/01:10p 0 9 0 0 9 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
29 Qantas 3100(3) B767 JFK/09:00a LAX/12:10p 0 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
30 American 1 B767 JFK/09:00a LAX/12:10p 0 7 7 7 0 7 7 7 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7
31 US Airways 6611(1) B757-200 JFK/08:30a LAX/11:51a 4 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4
32 Alaska 1979(3) B767 JFK/09:00a LAX/12:10p 7 7 0 0 0 0 0 0 7 0 0 7
33 United 891 B757-200 JFK/07:00a LAX/10:21a 0 8 9 9 6 5 0 0 2 0 8 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 9 9

(1) Operated by United
(2) Operated by Delta
(3) Operated by American

If anything changes between now and the flight, bump up the thread and let us know...

Pat

3kids4me · Nov 6, 2006

To add insult to injury, I just found out that the seats we have on the new flight do not recline (the only ones like that on the aircraft as they are in front of the exit row). I really am thinking of cancelling at this point! How likely is it to be able to get new seats at the airport?

Sharon

Emily · Nov 6, 2006

After seeing how flakey Delta has been in the past, I would be really surprised if they didn't add back your afternoon flight. Since its only early November, if you hold on for a few weeks without taking a financial hit before choosing to cancel, I would wait.

Many people that want to fly in December haven't even thought about making reservations yet.

Things may change for the good at some point . . . just a thought.

Delta cancels flight - big schedule change question

Steamboat Bill

TUG Review Crew: Veteran