Primary Reasons for buying TS?

PeaceOfMind said:

1. My primary reason for TS ownership is a benefit which the salesman/agent explained to me about: I am not a home-owner and would not want to get a mortgage as a first-time home buyer-- nor do I want to rent as that is 100% lost money-- however if I were to own a TS first, which is far less expensive, this would somehow "erase" the first-time home buyer status and allow me to get a much lower mortgage rate on a new home. Would anyone know if this is this accurate information?
2. Of course to have fun and enjoy vacations at a reasonable price, meet new people for friendship and business contacts. To have a "get-away" from the craziness in life.
3. Factors such as flexibility, growth, and profitability.

What are some of TUG members primary reasons?

--Newbie J---

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1. In 1987, my relative & I were first time buyers. We were trying to buy a house in Southern CA. We had wrote a contract & was approved for 7.5% first time buyer financing. The deal fell through & we bought elsewhere. Market rates were over 9% so we would have saved alot if the deal went through. (the mortgage insurance wanted more down payment due to property being prefab const.) The house went way up in value--it was an inexpensive house in a very wealthy area. Oh well! Bottom line was we got better financing for being first time buyers. There are many loan programs catering to the first time buyer.

Advice: buy resale & do alot of research on TUG.

2. In the very near future, I plan to either get a points lease deal (leaning in that direction) and/or a timeshare that has low maint fees, trades well, & can buy for a low price. I have been on TUG for a long while & been doing alot of research, etc. One large reason for buying is to have nice enjoyable vacations plus what you said in your #2 & more!

3. Only in very rare cases does timeshares make profit. One reason I'm looking into the points lease (the 3 yr RTU on RCI points) is the flexibility of getting vacations, etc. With a 3 yr lease, I am not tied into a very long term committment, however the lease can be renewed for low cost. I like flexibility, however we like staying in nice places.

Note: I don't have any afflilation to the lessors--just an interested consumer.

Bottom line: I'm a rookie myself on timeshares. I take a very long time before I jump in on most larger purchases. When I am ready, I jump. My wife & I have been to several timeshare presentations. We like getting the freebies & seeing the product. We won't ever buy from the developer, just resale. It is nice seeing various resorts & checking with various threads about many aspects of timeshare. Glad you recinded & best of success in finding a great timeshare at a great price!

i wont rent longterm.

i wont own a condo longterm, because i like traveling, and plan to own a second home in the future, and therefore do not want to pay condo fees when i am not present.

im more interested in higher end properties for leisure travel.

high end TS resale prices arent that much lower than developer.

i find that destination clubs are the model (technically membership as opposed to ownership, usually) that i find most appealing and most valuable.

i do currently own a TS, but did not buy it myself, and would not spend more money on TS, even though i have gotten some fine use out of mine. any substantial money i spend on travel property would be in the form of a destination club membership.

If you do the math on Destination clubs you will not be able to make the figures work. To pay $70,000 to $80,000 for the right to use 4 weeks a year plus $6,000 or more a year in fees (plus much more than $6,000 in future years accounting for upkeep, inflation, and refurbishments) is crazy. If you are forty years old and going to vacation 4 weeks a year for 30 years, you will have invested a minimum of $250,000 ($6000 a year in fees for 30 years is $180,000 plus about $70,000 to join). If you invest $70,000 at 8% return you will have over $500,000 in the bank in 30 years. If you average renting a really nice place for $2000 a week 4 times a year for 30 years you will only spend $240,000, which is only $60,000 more than your vacation club fees would have been (minimum), while having $500,00 plus in the bank on your investment, and no risk of the vacation club going broke, the locations losing their luster,or considering the fact that in the future you might not have the time or funds to vacation 4 weeks a year. There are very few places in the world that you can't find 5 star accomodations for $300 a night which is $2100 for a week. And when you decide to go on vacation you won't be limited to locations and dates that your vacation club has available.

PeaceOfMind said:

1. My primary reason for TS ownership is a benefit which the salesman/agent explained to me about: I am not a home-owner and would not want to get a mortgage as a first-time home buyer-- nor do I want to rent as that is 100% lost money-- however if I were to own a TS first, which is far less expensive, this would somehow "erase" the first-time home buyer status and allow me to get a much lower mortgage rate on a new home. Would anyone know if this is this accurate information?
2. Of course to have fun and enjoy vacations at a reasonable price, meet new people for friendship and business contacts. To have a "get-away" from the craziness in life.
3. Factors such as flexibility, growth, and profitability.

What are some of TUG members primary reasons?

--Newbie J---

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My primary reason --cost, I purchased resale first two times. However, it does force me to think ahead about vacation and places to go.

I guess I'm lucky in a way, I was subjected to some real B-S artists at an early age. Of course yours was very creative indeed.

Before I became somewhat knowledgeable about timesharing, I had this experience.... My First TS Sales Experience.


.

tombo said:

If you do the math on Destination clubs you will not be able to make the figures work. To pay $70,000 to $80,000 for the right to use 4 weeks a year plus $6,000 or more a year in fees (plus much more than $6,000 in future years accounting for upkeep, inflation, and refurbishments) is crazy. If you are forty years old and going to vacation 4 weeks a year for 30 years, you will have invested a minimum of $250,000 ($6000 a year in fees for 30 years is $180,000 plus about $70,000 to join). If you invest $70,000 at 8% return you will have over $500,000 in the bank in 30 years. If you average renting a really nice place for $2000 a week 4 times a year for 30 years you will only spend $240,000, which is only $60,000 more than your vacation club fees would have been (minimum), while having $500,00 plus in the bank on your investment, and no risk of the vacation club going broke, the locations losing their luster,or considering the fact that in the future you might not have the time or funds to vacation 4 weeks a year. There are very few places in the world that you can't find 5 star accomodations for $300 a night which is $2100 for a week. And when you decide to go on vacation you won't be limited to locations and dates that your vacation club has available.

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This is YOUR OPINION and I know a dozen or more TUGer that will not agree with you.

Using your data (and I am not agreeing with you) $70,000 for 4 weeks is $17,500 per week (and this is about the average price for a timeshare) and $6,000 annual dues is $1,500 per week and this is about what a Hawaii Marriott goes for. These prices allow you to access $1m or more properties and some are 4-5 bedrooms. You are getting a substantial better property than a timeshare for about the same cost.....what is wrong with that?

For us, joining a Destination Club like High Country Club has been a fantastic bargain as compared to timeshares.

Joining High Country Club costs less than $15,000 per week and you get to stay in $1m properties that will BLOW away most any timeshare. In addition, you can trade your weeks within a closed system and don't have to pay II or RCI fees.

I own over $100k in timeshares and if I had to choose between timeshares or Destination Clubs, I would sell all my timeshares in a second and ONLY be a member of a Destination Club.

I suggest TUGers to visit our forum dedicated to Destination Clubs.

http://tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48

www.highcountryclub.com is the lowest price club out there and they just announced a 20% price increase on December 1st.

Tombo - this is your second post that has several inaccurate statements about Destination Clubs. I suggest doing some more homework before posting any more false assumptions. Try reading Heliumreport.com and sherpareport.com and the TUG DC forums.

This is my opinion, you have yours. When I go on vacation, I go to a destination I want to visit. I eat breakfast and shower and leave to sightsee or go to the beach for the day rarely spending any daylight hours in the room. I want a nice place to sleep, eat, and shower, but I would never spend 100,000's for something I don't now and will never own.

I also believe that Marriotts and DVC's are too expensive to purchase. The only reason to buy timeshares (IMHO) or weeks, or points, or vacation clubs is to be able to vacation there cheaper than you could have otherwise. If I am going to pay anywhere close per week in yearly fees to go to Hilton Head or Hawaii (etc. )for a place I own or am a member of, I will simply rent when I want, where I want, at prevailing prices. This way I am never obligated for assessments (which even vacation clubs will have to pay if Hurricanes hit your resorts) or renovation fees etc. I can go to travelocity, red week, Orbitz, and many other locations and rent anything from motels to luxury condos. I just went to Hilton Head for rent and there are 1000's of 3 and 4 bed room homes for rent from $800 a week and up.

As far as 17,000 being average for a week, $8,000 is way higher than average if you shop around. You can pay sticker price for a car if you want, but I shop around. You need to shop resale and e-bay. Marriotts can often be had for $4000 or less, and you can own on Hilton Head or the outer banks for a dollar if you leave Marriott alone. The MF's at Marriotts are too high often exceeding 1500 a week which is exactly why I wouldn't own one. If you want to justify $1500 a week per year by comparing it to the most expensive Marriotts in Hawaii, how about comparing them to the $900 a year or less that many other Marriotts charge. I can stay in Marriott Maui for $1500 or less by renting off of Red Week if I am flexible. On the other hand I can vacation for a week numerous places by paying MF's of $600 or less a year at places I own.If the MF's get close to the price I can rent a comparable place in the area for, I sell the week.

You have invested a lot of money and you have a different opinion. That is your option. I did not attack you or anyone else, I simply stated my opinion. Feel free to disagree with me, but to tell me that the average resale price is $17,500 means you need to do a lot more research. It is rare to see a resale week sell that high no matter what resort chain or location. I like to buy as cheap as possible, and I always search for deals. I have resold many weeks for more than I paid for them. Try to make a profit on selling a vacation club membership. Some people like to brag about the bargains they purchase, some like to brag about how expensive something they own is. I seek vacation bargains for personal use and an occasional profit.

tombo said:

Feel free to disagree with me, but to tell me that the average resale price is $17,500 means you need to do a lot more research.

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Tombo

I criticized (not attacked) you because of the many false statements you have made in your last three posts I have read. When you mix personal opinions and statements like they are facts, I have to object. This is a Buying and Selling thread that is read by many timeshare newbies.

If you want to post your opinion that you would rather rent than own, that is fine. When you make blanket statements about destination clubs and timeshares like DVC and Marriot as a matter of fact, and I know they are false, I have to call attention to your post.

I own a Marriott platinum week, multiple DVC contracts, Westgate ski week, and High Country Club. I state this not to brag, but to demonstrate that my opinions are based upon personal experience.

I don’t have the desire to make a line by line critique of your last few posts as it would probably take me an hour just to disprove the things you stated. I just want you to back up your opinions with facts.

So let me post one simple fact to disprove your statement on the price of timeshares:

According to the ARDA (the timeshare authority) http://www.ardafoundation.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=October_16_2007
The weighted average price of a timeshare interval, or week, sold during 2006 was $17,620.

It appears that you are the one that needs to do a lot more research…not me.

Opinions Are Like Eyelids -- Everybody's Got'M.

Steamboat Bill said:

When you mix personal opinions and statements like they are facts, I have to object.

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Shux, I usually put my personal opinions out there in the form of straight-ahead statements, same as factual statements.

In the old, old days when I was a (sometimes) speechwriter for senior civil servants & minor public officials, I fell into the habit of using phrases like, "in my opinion," & "as I see it," & "in my view," etc. Then an old timer in the business said I could improve my work by not using those phrases. "Sure, you're putting words in other people's mouths," he said. "But it's the same as if you were making statements on your own, or if I were making statements on my own. If I put some opinion out there, you might respond by saying, 'That's your opinion.' Well, of course it's my opinion. I wouldn't be saying it if it weren't. What I'm doing up there is saying what I think -- my opinion -- & why I think it. Same for the people I'm writing speeches for, & the same for the people you're writing speeches for."

I've always remembered that & because of that I have always tried to express my own opinions that way. I just say what I think & why, & there we are. I mean, just because it's my opinion, that doesn't mean it's wrong. It might even be right. If it isn't, somebody's bound to come along & set matters straight before long. And in the process, we might all learn a little something.

Meanwhile, there's no need to dilute the impact by adding phrases to my opinions that do no more than say they're my opinions. Of course they're my opinions. Otherwise I wouldn't bother laying'm out here on TUG-BBS.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

tombo said:

If you do the math on Destination clubs you will not be able to make the figures work.

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that is a ridiculous opinion stated as a fact.

i thought my initial post in this thread was pretty clear on being about me and my opinions, without repeating "IMHO" etc. actually, its NOT my "humble opinion" in this case, im just talking about myself, not saying anything about anyone or anything else.

Thanks Alan. I was threatened with removal of my posts from a moderator for my opinions not having enough facts. Opinions now have to be backed up by hard facts on TUGG? I didn't get the memo.

The statement I made saying that the average RESALE is way lower than $17,500 is correct. I would bet money it is below $10,000 (taking into account all of the weeks that sell for as low as one dollar).To refute it with the ARDA weighted average of retail developer's sale prices is irrelevant to my original statement saying RESALE prices. The far majority of TUGGERs say never buy from a developer, buy resale, and I say buy resale 100%. This is why the site is here. I will agree that the weighted average sale from the developers is $17,600, and if the average resale is below $10,000 what more reason could you need for purchasing resale?

Ihave purchased over 20 weeks, all resale and I still own 17 of them. I am obviously not against timesharing, but I feel it has to save you money somewhere down the road or it is not worth purchasing. The more you pay the longer it takes to reach a break even point versus just vacationing at current rental rates.

The simple fact is this, I will never convince a high end owner that it isn't worth the extra expense to purchase and keep a high end week any more than they will ever get me to pay over $10,000 for a timeshare week, or points, or vacation club. The reasons these discussions are so good is so that new TUG members can hear the pro's and con's of all sorts of timeshare options to make up their own minds before they purchase. I hope that TUG doesn't allow these type of discussions to ever be censored by moderators.

Steamboat Bill said:

$17,500 per week (and this is about the average price for a timeshare)

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tombo said:

to tell me that the average resale price is $17,500 means you need to do a lot more research.

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your words, not his. this time its not just a ridiculous opinion, but a flat out lie, being stated as a fact. and then you make the "you need to do a lot more research" comment, which was completely unnecessary, and of a personal nature...

i also presume the post you were "threatened with removal of" was the one in the non-traditional forum. kind of makes a difference IMHO.

tombo said:

Opinions now have to be backed up by hard facts on TUGG?

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another thing bill never said, or even suggested.

tombo said:

The simple fact is this, I will never convince

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no idea what to make of that one.

I put hard figures (actually used low figures like $6000 a year in fees whereas most are closer to $8000) in that post right below the quote you quoted as ridiculous. Those are legitimate reasons that I feel renting 4 weeks a year at prevailing rates and investing $60,000 to $70,000 over the next 20 years would be a better move. Feel free to show me figures that show me how I will save money investing in a vacation club. I was intrigued with the concept and read many posts on the other site. I was excited until I started researching the prices and annual fees that is.

My parents and 5 other couples bought a 3 bed room oceanfront condo 20 years ago. They get every 6th week and that translates into them getting 8 or 9 weeks a year there. They currently pay $2400 a year (200 a month) for their 6th of the condo fees, insurance, electricity,cable,phone,water, etc. $2400 a year for 8 to 9 weeks a year is a deal. It will cost me $100,000 to $150,000 to buy in if someone ever wants out as these units are selling for $900,000. However my parents bought in 20 years ago for $30,000. A summer week here rents for $2800 and winter weeks are about $1500 a week to rent. My parents stay here 8 times a year for $300 a week.

Staying 8 weeks for 300 a week is a saving that came from purchasing,and it is what I was hoping fractional or vacation club would resemble. However the developers stay on charging huge upkeep and Mgt fees so you never see the vacation savings. I guess this is why my thinking is so skewed. If they are charging $1500 a week, that is $78,000 (52 weeks times $1500) to pay insurance ,electricity,cable,reserves, etc per home. Does it cost you $78000 to run your home a year? Insurance $4000, electricity $6000, cable $1000, water $600,phone $1200, DSL $600,landscaping and maintenance $7000, taxes $4000, all done for less than $25000 a year. Please tell me what I left out. Reserves for upgrades $12000 a year. That totals $37000 a year. Where is the rest of the $78,000 going? If they would run each resort for $40,000 a year you could vacation for about $750 a week, and that is a deal worth investing in. I am not against the concept at all, I am just against the high costs currently associated with purchase and ongoing expenses.

And to Kage: I was first told by Bill to "do more research before making false statements", I simply responded in kind because it was kind of a personal statement, like you saying "flat out lie" which is real personal. I hope the moderator chastised you for that personal attack! You do not know what I was told by Bill in his private message but I can post it since you want to say "never said or suggested" as I assure it was and I can prove it with his PM since facts are required by you too. You state that high end timeshare developers prices aren't much higher than resale. I assure you that they are much higher than what a resale week actually sells for. Please tell me where you are looking for a high end week and I will find you one at a much lower price than you can buy it from a developer at no charge.

Steamboat Bill said:

Tombo - this is your second post that has several inaccurate statements about Destination Clubs. I suggest doing some more homework before posting any more false assumptions. Try reading Heliumreport.com and sherpareport.com and the TUG DC forums.

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he clearly "suggested" researching DCs, not TS, as you seem to be claiming.

as for your other comment, the first that seem to come to mind are some of SVO's SVN mandatory resorts. its possible you and i define "that much lower" (phrase i used) differently. and its also possible that im wrong, and the 1 thing i stated as a fact in my original post is not factually accurate. if that is the case, i would simply acknowledge that i made a mistake.

Me, I'd rather ride in a Bentley...

$17,620 seems, to me, to be way too cheap a price for a timeshare developer sale – but I have no other source but the ARDA figures. My guess would be at least $20k. I’m guessing that the average MF is $650 per week.

Assume at least a 50% discount for resale and the average resale timeshare week would then be $8,810 which seems to me to be about right.

Bill is correct with HCC; that $70k membership fee works out to be the average price for a timeshare that ARDA reports of $17k but the HCC MF is $9,600 or $2,400 per week (4 weeks). So although the cost to “buy in” to HCC is the same as 4 average timeshares the MFs are 3.7 times as much.

I’ve been in a HCC unit and it is definitely a giant leap ahead in quality and a more secluded style of vacationing versus a timeshare. While at the HCC unit I kept looking for the grape juice stains on the rugs - couldn't find any.

Although I am not a proponent of DCs I don’t knock the folks who do decide to spend the money. It’s their money and a DC is definitely the next step above a timeshare with many of the same benefits and abilities of a timeshare.

A good friend of mine is going to buy a brand new Bentley for about $250k. That’s 10 times as much as my Toyota and my Toyota has a steering wheel just like his Bentley. I can’t wait to take a ride in his new Bentley and watch folks gawking – I’m going to just act cool; maybe I’ll buy a Variety magazine and hold it up and pretend I’m a movie guy.


I must have missed the threat to remove an inaccurate posting - I'll keep looking.

funny, my next car will probably be a used lexus IS. (and i dont see the need to spend more on my personal car)

but i dont really have a limit to what i would spend on a DC. just depends on what they offer. (and of course what i can afford at time of purchase)



indeed, different things are worth different amounts to different people.

Makes me plan ahead!!!

I also dont see anything in the thread where anyone has threatened to remove your post?

Nor do I see anything in your posts that would warrant editing or removal by moderators or admins either.

(although on a side note I do see lots of "post last edited by...." messages...so I cannot speak for what MIGHT have been posted originally.

tombo said:

You do not know what I was told by Bill in his private message

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i cant imagine bill said "you have to back up opinions with facts" instead of "you have to differentiate opinions and facts" but i guess theres no way of knowing, and it was my mistake to make reference to tombo's statements on that issue, even though i dont think he was entirely clear (that any/all such comments from bill/whoever were in a PM) in the post where he made the statements, and he had already made other statements that were ridiculous / mischaracterizations / etc.

tombo said:

I also believe that Marriotts and DVC's are too expensive to purchase. The only reason to buy timeshares (IMHO) or weeks, or points, or vacation clubs is to be able to vacation there cheaper than you could have otherwise. If I am going to pay anywhere close per week in yearly fees to go to Hilton Head or Hawaii (etc. )for a place I own or am a member of, I will simply rent when I want, where I want, at prevailing prices. This way I am never obligated for assessments (which even vacation clubs will have to pay if Hurricanes hit your resorts) or renovation fees etc. I can go to travelocity, red week, Orbitz, and many other locations and rent anything from motels to luxury condos. I just went to Hilton Head for rent and there are 1000's of 3 and 4 bed room homes for rent from $800 a week and up.

As far as 17,000 being average for a week, $8,000 is way higher than average if you shop around. You can pay sticker price for a car if you want, but I shop around. You need to shop resale and e-bay. Marriotts can often be had for $4000 or less, and you can own on Hilton Head or the outer banks for a dollar if you leave Marriott alone. The MF's at Marriotts are too high often exceeding 1500 a week which is exactly why I wouldn't own one. If you want to justify $1500 a week per year by comparing it to the most expensive Marriotts in Hawaii, how about comparing them to the $900 a year or less that many other Marriotts charge. I can stay in Marriott Maui for $1500 or less by renting off of Red Week if I am flexible. On the other hand I can vacation for a week numerous places by paying MF's of $600 or less a year at places I own.If the MF's get close to the price I can rent a comparable place in the area for, I sell the week.

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You're right that the average resale TS price is way below $17,000. But the average, super high end TS ( like a Marriott or Starwood in Hawaii) is much higher than $17K. I think that when Steamboat compares TS to fractionals, he tries to compare "like for like" and you'd have to compare fractionals to the super highend TSs.

Bill4728 said:

You're right that the average resale TS price is way below $17,000. But the average, super high end TS ( like a Marriott or Starwood in Hawaii) is much higher than $17K. I think that when Steamboat compares TS to fractionals, he tries to compare "like for like" and you'd have to compare fractionals to the super highend TSs.

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If that's the case then $35k is more like it - a super resort and a high demand week. 50% of that would be $17,500 resale - that makes sense to me. MF's are probably closer to $1,000 per year.

If that's the case then HCC is just 2.4 times the MF of a high end timeshare. Given that the average HCC unit is worth at least 2 times the high end timeshare there isn't much of a difference to me.

A reason why I'm a timeshare owner and not a DC owner. However, I get a kick out of maximizing our usage of timeshares. I don't think I'd get that same "Thrill of the chase" with a DC.

But, someday we will find some DC that causes us to buy - just haven't found it yet.

Primary reason for my purchases have been to force me to go to paradise yearly.

I pay the ever increasing maintenance fee yearly and by golly I'm not going to loose that money by not going to Hawaii.

Made that decision 25 years ago and really have never regretted it.

Sterling

PerryM said:

If that's the case then $35k is more like it - a super resort and a high demand week. 50% of that would be $17,500 resale - that makes sense to me. MF's are probably closer to $1,000 per year.

If that's the case then HCC is just 2.4 times the MF of a high end timeshare. Given that the average HCC unit is worth at least 2 times the high end timeshare there isn't much of a difference to me.

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I am not going to post the contents of the PM I sent “tombo”, but I like all TUGers to separate an opinion from a statement of fact, especially when a post may contain errors.

I have not edited or deleted anyone’s post in a while, but I don’t like to read false statements in regards to joining a Destination Club or buying a Timeshare that could avoided if the author took a little more time to proof-read or research their post better.

If your opinion is to only buy resale timeshares on ebay for $100 per week….that is fine. However, if someone makes a blanket statement that the math on DCs don’t work or confuses the prices between buying from a developer vs buying resale or confuses the type of week (platinum vs bronze) then those posts should be corrected.

I agree with PerryM that the cost of a “nice” timeshare is more than what ARDA reports. Marriott is now selling beachfront units in the new Marco Island property for $70,000 per week and ski weeks are in the $50,000 or more range. Joining DVC costs about $30,000 to buy 300 points to stay in a 2 bedroom unit for a week during the summer. Yes, you can buy a much cheaper timeshare and many people do, but the quality and experience is NOT the same.

Here is a fact about a destination club:
High Country Club’s Affiliate Membership costs $40,000 to join for 25 nights and has an annual fee of $5,400. This costs $11,200 per week (7 nights) to join and $1,512 per week (7 nights) in annual dues. For this you get to stay in $1m luxury properties (some have 5 bedrooms) that will blow away 99% of all timeshares. Thus, joining HCC is CHEAPER than buying an average timeshare, but the annual dues is slightly higher (but about the same for a Hawaii Marriott and much less than a Four Seasons timeshare). Thus, the membership fee and annual dues of HCC is well in line with most high end timeshares.

Steamboat Bill said:

However, if someone makes a blanket statement that the math on DCs don’t work or confuses the prices between buying from a developer vs buying resale or confuses the type of week (platinum vs bronze) then those posts should be corrected.

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I'm not sure if you really meant that such posts should be edited to "be corrected" or whether you intended to mean that alternative views should be presented in other posts.

The purpose of these forums is to generate discussion - for all of us. It's natural that views on almost any topic will vary. There's nothing wrong with that. No matter how far out one person's views might seem, we all have a responsibility to respond politely or not at all. However, TUG doesn't censor what someone says as long as they say it politely and are not advertising for a business or for a timeshare or other asset they are trying to rent or sell.

* * * *

I'll go out on a limb by agreeing with tombo that "the math on DCs doesn’t work". The math doesn't work for me and I agree with tombo that the numbers seem crazy. As shouldn't be necessary to state, that's my own opinion and is based on my personal circumstances. Others are free to espouse other viewpoints on these forums as long as they do so courteously!

tombo didnt say "the math on DCs doesn't work."

he said "you will not be able to make the figures work."

I like your way of reasoning KK. You got a 17 year or so TS jump on me, but I have been and will continue to go to nice places.

As the kids get older and move along (I'll be down to one next year), am I still going to need 2BR & 3BR units, or do they continiue to tag along with their own families making the 2BR units crowded??

Kauai Kid said:

Primary reason for my purchases have been to force me to go to paradise yearly.

I pay the ever increasing maintenance fee yearly and by golly I'm not going to loose that money by not going to Hawaii.

Made that decision 25 years ago and really have never regretted it.

Sterling

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