Ideal Marriott Internal Exchange System

This is the thing [at least one of them]

I took this benefit into account when I bought my Marriott. I knew I could buy less expensive weeks/programs but I did not because I wanted the Marriott advantage. Now you are telling me that everyone else is going to have what I paid for for free.

Perry, go protest something else please.

Hugs and kisses,
Charles

My thought is that, in a Marriott internal system, one would not "deposit" their week like in II. Let's say, as a NCV owner, you already held a great summer week by reserving ahead, and then let it go for a trader. I would think that the week goes into inventory for owner or trade use then you would get credit for a "platinum" week in general, just like any other NCV plat week. I doubt Marriott will give anyone credit for a specific time frame within a season, just the season itself, even though in II a summer NCV would command a much greater value than a late November week. However, I think other factors, such as cost of your timeshare, season, and the time frame you let your inventory go for trading would also effect trade value.

Sorry, getting back to the start of the thread, what is my ideal system. I guess that is hard, because ideal would be the ability to get any trade I want, which wont happen. But if I had to create the system that best protects owners, I would:

- Give owners the ability to reserve starting 12 months out only, no matter how many weeks they have. Right now it is 13 months for two, but will they go 14 months for 4 weeks, etc? An owner is an owner.

- Allow trading 11 months out.

Trading would be:
- A trader week would be valued based on cost, location, season, time it was deposited. We would be able to deposit by either giving up your week without making a resevation or re-depositing the week you reserved. However, the longer you wait to deposit the weaker it is. (They would not consider the actual date of week you re-deposited, only the season)

- When you trade you week, it would go back into the general pool for owners to take or traders to obtain.

- You could hold a reservation and request a trade (without giving up a week) but it would be less powerful like II.

- Allow traders to request a week and wait (like II).

- Allow II-RCI deposits with inventory only chosen by Marriott. This ensures the quality weeks stay within for Marriott owners.

- Allow resale owners to participate in the trading system as is. If not, they will take their weeks away thru other systems or rent them, thereby lowering the amount of quality weeks in the internal system. Offer direct owners benefits such as cheap extra weeks, points, etc, (But grandfather all current resale owners ) Disney has the right idea with their system in this regard.

Regarding the Marriott priority, I agree with Charles. I bought Marriott (cheap weeks, resale) so I could get to those Marriott deposits with the priority. I've had amazing exchanges using Flexchange!! I've never owned anything but Marriotts, although I've considered and been tempted by others. So yes, it works for me and I'm happy with the Marriott/II exchange program just the way it is.
If Marriott & II change the Marriott priority, then I'll figure out how to get the vacations I want. I don't feel like I'm entitled to the Marriott priority, I've just been very happy to take advantage of it in the past. If the game changes, then I'll look at the options and figure out a new plan!

LAX Mom said:

Regarding the Marriott priority, I agree with Charles. I bought Marriott (cheap weeks, resale) so I could get to those Marriott deposits with the priority. I've had amazing exchanges using Flexchange!! I've never owned anything but Marriotts, although I've considered and been tempted by others. So yes, it works for me and I'm happy with the Marriott/II exchange program just the way it is.
If Marriott & II change the Marriott priority, then I'll figure out how to get the vacations I want. I don't feel like I'm entitled to the Marriott priority, I've just been very happy to take advantage of it in the past. If the game changes, then I'll look at the options and figure out a new plan!

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You've got to believe that if Marriott leaves II that II will zap any preferential treatment to Marriott owners. No 24-day window, no upgrading a Bronze Marriott week for a Platinum Plus Holiday week - all gone.

No one here expects II to lose millions of dollars and not retaliate do they? The retaliation is nothing more than putting Marriott owners on the same level playing field as everyone else.

JimIg23 said:

A trader week would be valued based on cost, location, season, time it was deposited. We would be able to deposit by either giving up your week without making a resevation or re-depositing the week you reserved. However, the longer you wait to deposit the weaker it is.

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I really think Marriott is likely to adopt some form of fixed points system very similar to what Starwood, Hyatt and Hilton have adopted, where a 2 bedroom Platinum week is more or less the same number of points no matter the location. I realize that this may cause concerns of equity between, say, a Platinum week at Ford's Colony vs a platinum week at Maui Ocean Club. But even now trading a Platinum Ford's Colony into Hawaii is not uncommon at all.

I think some new "weighted" internal trading system, no less "mysterious" than the current II system, is NOT a good selling point for selling Marriott timeshare weeks. The momentum as shown by Hilton, Hyatt and Starwood is clearly for something that shows potential owners an easy and clear path to vacations beyond the home resort. Anything else is no better than II's present system.

I love Hilton's point-based system and the only reason I don't own with them is because they don't have the locations I want to stay year after year.

Well... my wish is for no fees! (I'm sure I'm dreaming...)

Does PerryM even own any Marriott's? Just curious... Seems like he just gets great trades in with his WMs (which are not like for like IMHO)...

PerryM said:

You've got to believe that if Marriott leaves II that II will zap any preferential treatment to Marriott owners. No 24-day window, no upgrading a Bronze Marriott week for a Platinum Plus Holiday week - all gone.

No one here expects II to lose millions of dollars and not retaliate do they? The retaliation is nothing more than putting Marriott owners on the same level playing field as everyone else.

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You have missed a key element of Marriott's planned internal exchange system, Perry. As I have posted in the thread on the planned system, Marriott plans to continue using II resources (e.g., their computerized exchange system) and will have a contract with II that they both have presumably determined will be mutually beneficial.

Marriott has no plans to ditch II. Marriott owners will continue to have the opportunity to exchange for non-Marriott weeks through II - as they do now.

Dave M said:

You have missed a key element of Marriott's planned internal exchange system, Perry. As I have posted in the thread on the planned system, Marriott plans to continue using II resources (e.g., their computerized exchange system) and will have a contract with II that they both have presumably determined will be mutually beneficial.

Marriott has no plans to ditch II. Marriott owners will continue to have the opportunity to exchange for non-Marriott weeks through II - as they do now.

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So what's new then? They already have a 24-day internal Marriott exchange system. Do they plan to make it 365 days?

ciscogizmo1 said:

Well... my wish is for no fees! (I'm sure I'm dreaming...)

Does PerryM even own any Marriott's? Just curious... Seems like he just gets great trades in with his WMs (which are not like for like IMHO)...

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We currently own one Gold Summit Watch.

We have owned 5 Platinum Plus Marriotts in the past but found we could get to the same units much cheaper with II exchanges. Why own when you can exchange in for peanuts?

I agree that WM's aren't in the same league with Marriotts - that why I own WM! However, II values them as equals except in that 24-day Marriott only window.

I don't know what will be new, Perry. None of us does. We know that Marriott - rather than II - will be controlling the internal trading system. Beyond that, almost everything else about the details is pure conjecture at this point.

Dave M said:

I don't know what will be new, Perry. None of us does. We know that Marriott - rather than II - will be controlling the internal trading system. Beyond that, almost everything else about the details is pure conjecture at this point.

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Hell; this is no fun. We need more dirt////information.

Well then, just change the 24-day Marriott window into 365-days and II will gladly roll over.

Case solved.

The only trick then is how Marriott will change the existing right to use II and if they will try to control that gateway on resales.

Dave M said:

I don't know what will be new, Perry. None of us does. We know that Marriott - rather than II - will be controlling the internal trading system. Beyond that, almost everything else about the details is pure conjecture at this point.

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Not to get off the subject. But, the price of Marriott resales will come down. Due to the falling value of real estate, inflation, high gas prices, stock market, the way credit is being handled and people are cutting back spending. People do not want to hear the R word. We are in one. The price of Marriott resales as posted here are down. Marriott tracks all this. Who knows how all this will play out. Dave, thanks for all your hard work...

Let's not tweak the Marriott system, let's start over!

I think points are the only way to go. The points are designated by your week's demand. With your annual points you face several windows.

Earliest window is to reserve your deeded week or season at your home resort.

Second window is to reserve at your home resort.

Third window is to reserve in your home system... Marriott.

There is no window for II. They get the points deposited by Marriott into II on behalf of it's owners. Marriott then offers sufficient weeks to II to balance the points deposited into II. These weeks are the ones not likely to be wanted by Marriott owners.

You never reserve a week for trade. Instead you deposit a set number of points into II, a designation that Marriott strong-arms II into. (For example if you own oceanfront at Waiohai, like I do, you would get enough points for about 3 II weeks, each with the highest of trading power.) Marriott then accepts those points from II for Marriott's leftovers.

In the ideal Marriott system, no regard is given for none Marriott owners. We are not looking for fair... we are looking for advantage... the advantage our preferred resorts demand. We should get the best from II that we can demand. Please forget the word fair. On the other hand, fair is the most Marriott can extract from II on behalf of its owners... that is the very definition of fair... fairness of the marketplace.

If this system sounds familiar, it is probably because you are familiar with the Hilton system and Hilton's relationship with RCI. You can trade a 2 bedroom oceanfront Hilton for 3 RCI weeks in a one bedroom or 2 weeks in two bedroom, each of those deposits having premium trading power in RCI.

I don't really know the internal workings of the Hilton system, but I do know the practical result. With my Hilton points, right now I can reserve a week in a Hawaii Hilton in any month of 2008... right now... even in January, just days away! I defy any other non-Hilton RCI resort owner to find a week in Hawaii at the best Hilton resorts at any time in 2008. It might happen, but I have never heard of it. I have high trading power non-Hilton RCI weeks with ongoing searches for Hawaii and have never gotten any hits at a Hawaii Hilton, except at Hilton's Bay Club, a Hilton affiliate. Why? Because Hilton gives RCI points that can only be used for Hilton weeks that Hilton owners are not likely to use (This is presumption based on my experience and my deductive reasoning and not known fact.).

Even if Marriott were to attempt to set up an internal trade program, why would anyone use it? Interval gives bonus certificates to many Marriott Owners. Marriott would not have the inventory to do that. Interval will let people trade for Marriott or other properties. Marriott would only allow Marriott trades. They would both charge fees. Do you really think Interval will roll over and play dead? Currently, Worldmark owners have the choice of II or RCI; as a result, they both fight for the business. They often offer 2 for 1 annual fees. If Marriott is foolish enough to attempt an internal trade program, I see Interval making it MORE favorable to deposit with them, not less favorable. We should be getting tremendous incentives from both II and Marriott. New condo docs would have to be developed. The boards of all the resorts would have to vote on it. There was talks of resale owners not be included. This is illegal in some states. How would this be addressed? Do they really want to alienate many of their owners? If it is to be rolled out Jan 2009, and people usually book their weeks 1 year in advance, this should be public knowledge in about 2 weeks. We should all get letters asking us to bank our weeks with Marriott. If anyone gets such a letter, please scan it on the BBS, as I would love to see the details.

mtnpilot said:

I really think Marriott is likely to adopt some form of fixed points system very similar to what Starwood, Hyatt and Hilton have adopted, where a 2 bedroom Platinum week is more or less the same number of points no matter the location. I realize that this may cause concerns of equity between, say, a Platinum week at Ford's Colony vs a platinum week at Maui Ocean Club. But even now trading a Platinum Ford's Colony into Hawaii is not uncommon at all.

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Interesting, I know I read that before. But I never understood it. If that is the case, why would people spend the vastly greater amount of money on Hawaii or Marco Island? They may be able to get first time buyer not to realize it, but once people are in, they will realize this. Wouldn't this hurt Marriott's ability to sell 100k timeshares? This new system is all about making more money for Marriott, not helping anyone else. If that is what may happen, is it better to dump the expensive weeks and buy the lowest price possible weeks.

Also, if they are using II's framework, won't it be a fair assumption to think they are using trade power as opposed to point systems?

My ideal Marriott internal exchange system...

Ok, since this is an exercise in describing our versions of an ideal Marriott internal exchange system here goes:

A Point Based Exchange System would give Marriott the ability to handle whatever twists and turns come about in the next 25+ years.


Point based systems are currency based – not the dollars you have in your wallet but a currency that the exchange company creates out of thin air. RCI has their Point which is a loony number which makes no sense what so ever. The idea is to create a Point currency that is rooted in reality and is based upon published external values.

Marriott rents out every timeshare they sell – every type of unit (2BR) every week (Christmas week) at every Marriott. They set the rental rates based upon what a renter will actually pay to rent it. This is the foundation of a currency system – an independent way that accounts for supply and demand, old versus new, hot location versus bad location. There is NO better way to determine what a unit for exchange is worth.

If Marriott rents week 52 at MountainSide for $4,900 then replace the "$" with “Coins” and that week is worth 4,900 Marriott Coins to both the owner of the unit and the person who wants to exchange into the unit.

With the currency defined Marriott simply needs an account for each Marriott owner and the owner can instantly find the value of their unit for deposit. If you own a Week 52 2BR at MountainSide you can deposit it into the Marriott Point System and get 4,900 Marriott Coins.

If you additionally own a Gold Summit Watch for the 4th of July week it rents from Marriott for $1,400 and if you deposit that week you get 1,400 Marriott Coins.

Now you have 4,900 + 1,400 = 6,300 Marriott Coins that you can use many ways:

1) 4th of July 1BR at the Maui Ocean Club is available for 3,000 Coins and you have 3,300 left

2) 3 weeks in a studio at Orlando in May cost 1,400 each or 4,200 Coins and you have 2,100 coins left

3) Use 2,400 Coins to stay at a 2BR in Branson and roll 1,000 Coins forward to next year and have 2,900 Coins for another get away this year

4) You rent 1,000 Coins to another Marriott owner for $1.25 each and get $1,250 cash back

5) You want to spend Christmas and New Years week in Maui and each cost 4,000 Coins. You only have 6,300 Coins and borrow 1,700 Coins from next year’s usage

The important point is that YOU decide what to deposit, what to exchange into, and how to bank, borrow, and rent.. Marriott is simply the banker in this game.

You pay NO fee to deposit your unit and a $99 fee to do each transaction. A yearly $99 membership fee keeps your account current.

Marriott would let you place on-going searches that, if found, instantly remove the Coins from your account and deposit the exchange.


From what Dave has just said the above is just a Christmas wish but I hope we don't get a lump of coal instead.

P.S.
If you want to see this system up and running check this link. R2R is a Point Based exchange company based upon rental rates and allows IntraWest owners (Actually Playground owners) to deposit our weeks into the system, get points based upon rental rates and exchange into other IntraWest properties.

Seth Nock said:

If it is to be rolled out Jan 2009, and people usually book their weeks 1 year in advance, this should be public knowledge in about 2 weeks.

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There are many inaccurate statements in your post that includes this quote. Most of those inaccuracies are addressed in the long current thread regarding the new system. So I'll address only this statement.

As far as I know, no one has claimed that the new internal trading system will be effective for exchanges that would involve occupancy as early as January 2009. I chose my words very carefully when I posted in bold print in the first post in that thread, "My latest information indicates that the new system will be implemented by January 1, 2009."

If my information is accurate and the new system is implemented then, that would mean that would be the first time anyone could request an exchange under the new system. Thus, I see no reason for anyone to get a letter announcing the change for almost another year.

Seth Nock said:

Even if Marriott were to attempt to set up an internal trade program, why would anyone use it? Interval gives bonus certificates to many Marriott Owners. Marriott would not have the inventory to do that. Interval will let people trade for Marriott or other properties. Marriott would only allow Marriott trades. They would both charge fees. Do you really think Interval will roll over and play dead? Currently, Worldmark owners have the choice of II or RCI; as a result, they both fight for the business. They often offer 2 for 1 annual fees. If Marriott is foolish enough to attempt an internal trade program, I see Interval making it MORE favorable to deposit with them, not less favorable. We should be getting tremendous incentives from both II and Marriott. New condo docs would have to be developed. The boards of all the resorts would have to vote on it. There was talks of resale owners not be included. This is illegal in some states. How would this be addressed? Do they really want to alienate many of their owners? If it is to be rolled out Jan 2009, and people usually book their weeks 1 year in advance, this should be public knowledge in about 2 weeks. We should all get letters asking us to bank our weeks with Marriott. If anyone gets such a letter, please scan it on the BBS, as I would love to see the details.

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Seth, I love you as my broker but I think you are off base on an internal Marriott exchange system – at least an ideal one. True, Marriott could have raided the RCI Point brainpower trust fund and create RCI Points part II and it would be a total disaster.

Marriott is a sales organization and everything must boost timeshare sales. Marriott could take a super simple approach of just changing the 24day Marriott Only window to 365-days and they instantly have an internal exchange company.

Keep the old 24-day for every Marriott owner and offer the 365-day version to those who buy from Marriott or pay an upgrade fee to belong and a new sales tools is now available and resales won’t be impacted at all.

I for one look forward to an Internal Exchange system and as more rumors pop up that I believe are better than 50/50 I will probably buy more Marriotts from you and get them grandfathered in.

Everyone wins as far as I can see.

We are playing here!

Let's not get bogged down in the reported pending plan. That is for the other thread. This thread is meant to formulate our ideas for the IDEAL internal exchange program. Since the plan that is in the works now hasn't been implemented, maybe our ideas will be incorporated into this new plan. Let's not discuss how the plan is, but how it ideally could be.

For those concerned that a points plan will effect the value of the prime resorts, keep in mind that there would still be an incentive to own in Hawaii, for example. A points sytem could have a window where only Mauai owners could book in Mauai as I said in an earlier post. Also, this fear has not been realized in other points systems. Hilton Hawaii resorts cost far more on the resale market than Hilton Las Vegas resorts, for example.

alanraycole said:

Let's not get bogged down in the reported pending plan. That is for the other thread. This thread is meant to formulate our ideas for the IDEAL internal exchange program. Since the plan that is in the works now hasn't been implemented, maybe our ideas will be incorporated into this new plan. Let's not discuss how the plan is, but how it ideally could be.

For those concerned that a points plan will effect the value of the prime resorts, keep in mind that there would still be an incentive to own in Hawaii, for example. A points sytem could have a window where only Mauai owners could book in Mauai as I said in an earlier post. Also, this fear has not been realized in other points systems. Hilton Hawaii resorts cost far more on the resale market than Hilton Las Vegas resorts, for example.

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Whow there.

The existing method of calling or clicking and locking in your week for a reservation will not change – even though it too could use a good Roto-Rootering.

You lock in a reservation at your resort and use it OR deposit it into the new Marriott Internal Exchange System If you deposit it a week 52 Maui Ocean Club will command a higher priority than a mud week at Summit Watch. The kicker is how to determine who will get that New Year’s week at Maui.

II is a barter system – most Americans don’t use a barter system and when we go car shopping we get a taste of bartering and loath it. (not me, I love it).

The ideal new exchange system would do away with bartering and allow the 3 Marriotts you own to combine forces and get a once in a lifetime vacation. That could be 2 weeks in Maui over Christmas and New years or a month in mud season in Park City. The choice should be yours and NOT Marriotts or II.

Speaking of resale value...

If the plan that I suggested was adopted, resales would go up. When people who bought non-Marriott resorts just to be able to trade into Marriott realize that all they will be able to reserve are the weeks that Marriott owners are not likely to use, they will have to buy a Marriott to get into any of the prime weeks or locations. The system I proposed will put a much bigger premium on owning Marriott than currently exists.

Nope! We are starting fron scratch here... the IDEAL system...

PerryM said:

Whow there.

The existing method of calling or clicking and locking in your week for a reservation will not change – even though it too could use a good Roto-Rootering.

You lock in a reservation at your resort and use it OR deposit it into the new Marriott Internal Exchange System If you deposit it a week 52 Maui Ocean Club will command a higher priority than a mud week at Summit Watch. The kicker is how to determine who will get that New Year’s week at Maui.

II is a barter system – most Americans don’t use a barter system and when we go car shopping we get a taste of bartering and loath it. (not me, I love it).

The ideal new exchange system would do away with bartering and allow the 3 Marriotts you own to combine forces and get a once in a lifetime vacation. That could be 2 weeks in Maui over Christmas and New years or a month in mud season in Park City. The choice should be yours and NOT Marriotts or II.

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I doubt you have read my earlier posts. To respond to this, I would have to repeat myself, so I instead refer to my earlier posts. Suffice it to say, we are far apart in our thinking.

Total dump or just a 10 minute patch?

alanraycole said:

I doubt you have read my earlier posts. To respond to this, I would have to repeat myself, so I instead refer to my earlier posts. Suffice it to say, we are far apart in our thinking.

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Ok I read your post #39 and you are dumping both the existing Marriott reservation system AND the II existing exchange system. There is no way that Marriott will become a WM or Hilton, their existing way of selling timeshares is just fine. The trick is to give the salesreps a new sales tool.

I am only describing an “Ideal Marriott Internal Exchange System” as this thread calls for.

I like the existing way Marriott sells and how Marriott owners can make reservations, especially with buying a Branson week and getting the reservation they want year after year while other Marriott owners cry in their beer.

It’s the exchanging part that needs to be totally dumped but Marriott really doesn’t need to do but a simple addition of a 365-day Marriott Only II Window and they are just fine. That simple change would take, what, 10 minutes of II’s time and Marriott has an awesome new sales tool.

The reservation system at each resort remains the same.

The change comes when they want to go somewhere other than their deeded week, regardless of how the week is defined. Their week then becomes part of the new exchange system with all the limitations and opportunities it affords. This is not that different from the Hilton system. If I want to stay in the week I own, I reserve it within the window. If I don't reserve my deeded week, then the internal exchange program takes over.

Perry, the system you propose has a major shortfall that I consider vital to fix in a new system. If I don't want to stay at my home resort, the Waiohai, I loath depositing it for exchange in the current system as I would in your system. I feel I would get ripped off with a week for a week exchange (The AC doesn't count in my book because of its low power.). I instead would choose rental. I am sure others in my situation feel the same, probably most. So, for an owner of a week in an average resort to get the best chance possible of reserving a prime location it is in their interest to allow a better incentive to the owners in prime resorts to deposit them in any exchange system. A points system is the easiest way to accomplish this.