Is this a good deal?

Hi,

Mahalo to all the Tuggers out there for all your advice and viewpoints! I very much appreciate it. As a first time buyer, please tell me if this makes sense/if this is a good arrangement:

I'm considering a 2-bedroom lock-off at Grand Chateau, EOY. Price: $17,900, MF about $880. Amount of points if I were to convert every use year: 110,000. Buyer's incentive 75,000. The up-front incentive seems a little low to me. However, it's an even-year usage and I won't be able to use it until 2010. Another 110,000 points for 2008. I'll plan to use the Visa @5 points per $1 for the purchase. I thought about the EY, cost: $29,900 - A bet hefty as I'd like to "try it out" first. And I might go re-sale for another week in the future.

Converting to points is a biggie for me, as I feel the packages are a good deal. I've been seeking a low purchase price, low MF, greatest point value, and a good trade. Also, I travel to Las Vegas every few years. I considered Newport as well.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I Must Be Missing Something.

bongo said:

Price: $17,900,

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bongo said:

I've been seeking a low purchase price,

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By me $17,900 is anything but a low price.

If $17,900 is low, I can't imagine what's high.

Must be some kind of Marriott thing that's incomprehensible to us bargain hunting bottom feeders -- not that there's anything wrong with bargain hunting bottom feeders.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

bongo said:

However, it's an even-year usage and I won't be able to use it until 2010. Another 110,000 points for 2008.

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You do realize that for the 110,000 points for 2008, you'll have to pay the maintenance fees for 2008.

If a $10K plus premium for the ability to trade for points is worth it to you then its something to consider. IMO, your not getting enough incentive points to consider this purchase cost effective.

However, I do think there are more cost effective ways to get points without paying an additional $10K plus. You and a spouse can buy 100K a year for a few hundred more than your maintenance fees.

You could also consider a Marriott Manor Club EY unit which goes for around $20K and has lower maintenance fees if your set on buying from Marriott to be able to trade for points.

Lastly, your not financing this right? That would seriously affect the value of the points.

gmarine said:

You could also consider a Marriott Manor Club EY unit which goes for around $20K and has lower maintenance fees if your set on buying from Marriott to be able to trade for points.

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It looks like the OP is based in Hawaii...that being said wouldn't a Western location be more appropriate?

not bad deal just not great

If you are likely stay in Vegas a fair amount of the time and you want the ability to trade for points than it is not a bad deal. If you are not locked into a into Vegas you might consider a gold week at NVC it will trade for 100,000 points and would be little less expensive. You could buy an every year week that is split between Vegas and Newport. Ask if they will allow you to self refer yourself it would be worth another 20,000 points.
Sheldon

Remember, when you exchange for points you still have to pay your maintenance fees (which always go up year over year), PLUS a $104 "exchange-to-points" service charge (which can also go up). So you're currently close to $1,000 to get 110,000 points. To get the most value out of points, you need a Travel reward, which start at something like 235,000 (don't know the exactly amount off the top of my head) reward points. So in 4 years (2 EOY conversions), you still wouldn't have enough points to get a travel package, plus all you would get in return would be a 7 night stay in a cat 1-5 HOTEL ROOM (as opposed to your 2 bedroom timeshare) and some ff miles. Doesn't seem like a good deal to me, but to each his/her own.

David

bongo said:

Hi,

Mahalo to all the Tuggers out there for all your advice and viewpoints! I very much appreciate it. As a first time buyer, please tell me if this makes sense/if this is a good arrangement:

I'm considering a 2-bedroom lock-off at Grand Chateau, EOY. Price: $17,900, MF about $880. Amount of points if I were to convert every use year: 110,000. Buyer's incentive 75,000. The up-front incentive seems a little low to me. However, it's an even-year usage and I won't be able to use it until 2010. Another 110,000 points for 2008. I'll plan to use the Visa @5 points per $1 for the purchase. I thought about the EY, cost: $29,900 - A bet hefty as I'd like to "try it out" first. And I might go re-sale for another week in the future.

Converting to points is a biggie for me, as I feel the packages are a good deal. I've been seeking a low purchase price, low MF, greatest point value, and a good trade. Also, I travel to Las Vegas every few years. I considered Newport as well.

Thanks for your thoughts!

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I love the points for trade option but I don't think Marriott is offering you enough incentive points for the purchase. You should ask for self referral points (in my case it was 40,000 points) and more up front points.

Did you consider Shadow Ridge? I think the purchase price for a yearly 2 br platinum season was around $28,000 with the ability to trade for 110,000 points. Maintenance fee is less than $900. I reserved some high demand dates and i've been able to pull some amazing trades if I decide to keep the unit instead of trade for points.

bongo said:

Hi,

Mahalo to all the Tuggers out there for all your advice and viewpoints! I very much appreciate it. As a first time buyer, please tell me if this makes sense/if this is a good arrangement:

I'm considering a 2-bedroom lock-off at Grand Chateau, EOY. Price: $17,900, MF about $880. Amount of points if I were to convert every use year: 110,000. Buyer's incentive 75,000. The up-front incentive seems a little low to me. However, it's an even-year usage and I won't be able to use it until 2010. Another 110,000 points for 2008. I'll plan to use the Visa @5 points per $1 for the purchase. I thought about the EY, cost: $29,900 - A bet hefty as I'd like to "try it out" first. And I might go re-sale for another week in the future.

Converting to points is a biggie for me, as I feel the packages are a good deal. I've been seeking a low purchase price, low MF, greatest point value, and a good trade. Also, I travel to Las Vegas every few years. I considered Newport as well.

Thanks for your thoughts!

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Bongo...I think you need to rethink the resale.. .There is an annual GC for sale for $12,500 posted right here on Tug. Thats every year!

Also I suggest you go spend some time on Marriotts site and look at whats available with points and how many points it takes . As another poster had pointed out it generally takes 250,000 points to get a trip to utilize the benefits of points (7 days plus flights). The large points packages can be a fair/good deal. However most everything less than 7 days is poor/average in value. It takes more if you want to fly first class or business class which some of the other point junkies love to maximize their value.

At 110,000 per every other year it will take you about 6 years (3 trades) to earn enough points for your second trip after you have used your "free" points. By the time that happens Marriott will probably have raised the point costs to even higher (yes they do that). Those three trades will probably have costs you at least $3,000 in maintenance fees plus conversion to points fees. Your point trip may not be worth more than that plus you have paid a premium on the purchase to get that. At best if you traded every other year for points and got the best point value trip possible you probably will never get back to the savings if you had purchased resale and used your savings for those trips and supplemented it with rents in the years you would have traded for points. Just something to consider.



Reconsider resale as your first purchase and pocket that savings for those big trips you want.

What's a value?

You have kind of a fair deal that depends upon how much you want to visit LV and what you want to do with your points. For example, it you can get to 540,000 points with purchase incentives, turning in your unit for points, purchasing points, getting credit card points, etc. you can probably take an two week vacation overseas for two with business class air tickets. Your cost might be around $4,000 when you consider you have to pay the MF on the units that you turn in for points and the fact that a couple can buy 100,000 points every year but it costs around $1,400.

The value of the business class two week overseas vacation for two should be at least $15,000 to $20,000 depending on where you go and the currency exchange rates at the time of your vacation. You could safely knock about ten grand off of your proposed purchase price in value received. That is, only if you were wanting to take an overseas vacation in the first place. If you just wanted to go to LV it is probably not worth buying direct from Marriott. I was also told by a Marriott person that you can take an around the world Marriott vacation for about 1,500,000 points. The only proviso is that once you start your trip you cannot double back. You must go forward and you must finish in a certain number of days. That sounds exciting. Other TUGGERS may have more details on this.

Another point to consider is that there are three bedroom units at MGC that are a rather unique product within MVCI. They are located at the end of each side of the building and they are nicer units than the two bedrooms. The lockoff trades as a one bedroom with a FULL kitchen. It gives you a lot of flexibility in the future and is also a very good trader. I believe that you can still purchase a three bedroom EOY. I have two of them. I have had a Marriott person or two tell me that they don't like EOY's. That's their problem.

The value of the business class two week overseas vacation for two should be at least $15,000 to $20,000 depending on where you go and the currency exchange rates at the time of your vacation. You could safely knock about ten grand off of your proposed purchase price in value received.

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The only problem I have with this argument (which is offered frequently and, admittedly, correct for some) is that you need to factor in what you would otherwise normally spend for a two week overseas vacation. Would you normally fly business class? Would you normally stay in $500-1000 a night accommodations? If so, then that trip knocks 15-20K, as posted, off your purchase price.

However, if you are like many others who would, obviously, prefer to go first class but could very happily travel to Europe in less style and still have a fabulous vacation, then the savings is much less. For example several years ago (and, yes, I know prices have gone up in the past few years) 6 of us took a fabulous Eastern Mediterranean cruise (outside cabins, not the cheapest on the ship) and then spent 3 nights in Barcelona staying at the Hotel de Artes (a Ritz Carlton, certainly up there on the posh scale). We flew AA non-stop (so didn't have multiple connecting flights to save even more $$'s), but coach. And, while I don't remember the exact cost, the total was in the 10-12K range. Yes, I shopped around and managed to get some great deals at the time (but, trading for points and getting FF and points reservations requires some work too) and, admittedly, I didn't get to enjoy business class for the 7 hours or so each way of flying time, but the rest of the trip was pretty classy. We were actually on the inaugural season that RCCL offered this itinerary.

My point is, even accounting for inflation, 2 people can travel very nicely to Europe for a lot less money if you are willing to cut things back just a little. We have done it several times and, trust me, we don't stay in dives. While I would love the luxury of business class travel, for me, at least, it just isn't worth the $$'s.

Now, if a good pre-construction deal came along like, perhaps, the deal offered for the Grande Lakes resort, at a locale that I'd be interested in visiting, I might feel that buying direct was worthwhile....

Thats the point. With a direct purchase, you get the option to travel in a way that you would not normally travel because it's too expensive. This is a very attractive perk to owning a timeshare and why most people purchase direct. This perk only comes with a direct purchase.

The best part, this perk costs very little because the initial price difference between resale vs direct is made up from the first trip (if you go first class) or in 2 years (if you travel coach) because of the large number of incentive points you get with the direct purchase. After the first or second year, this perk (the ability to travel 1st class) only costs you the $104 points exchange fee since everyone pays the same amount for maintenance fees.

Latravel said:

Thats the point. With a direct purchase, you get the option to travel in a way that you would not normally travel because it's too expensive. This is a very attractive perk to owning a timeshare and why most people purchase direct. This perk only comes with a direct purchase.

The best part, this perk costs very little because the initial price difference between resale vs direct is made up from the first trip (if you go first class) or in 2 years (if you travel coach) because of the large number of incentive points you get with the direct purchase. After the first or second year, this perk (the ability to travel 1st class) only costs you the $104 points exchange fee since everyone pays the same amount for maintenance fees.

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In this case there are very few incentive points, 75K, which make this deal much more expensive than purchases that have a few hundred thousand incentive points.
Without a huge amount of incentive points the OP is better off buying 100K points a year from Marriott for $1300 instead of paying an extra 15K or so for the ability to pay roughly $1000 for 110K points every other year.

I'd have to say a big no to the OP's question. I simply can't see any set of circumstances that make this even vaguely a good idea. As has been pointed out MGC 2 beds (annual...not EOY) are going for $11k-$12k on the resale market so (by applying similar discounts) the EOY will be worth approximately $7k as soon as you take ownership. When you can buy 100k points for $1,300 why would you burden yourself with an immediate $10k capital loss, ongoing maintenance fees (which will go up by the way), potential special assessments later on down the line, and additional costs just for the privilege of converting the unit into points?

Another thought occurs to me as well, aside from everything else won't this unit be in tower 3 or 4? If this is the case you won't even get a view of the strip for your $17k.

I am slightly jet-lagged at the moment so perhaps I'm being a bit slow, but I really can't see any redeeming features of this deal. Run from it as fast as you can, would be my suggestion......but I have been known to be wrong.

Thank You!

Wow, thanks for your valuable feedback! You know, I've been on TUG for just a couple of weeks and have learned so much - I'm amazed. There seems to be an art to timeshare usage - the more I learn, the more I realize I have yet to learn. I'm really having fun I don't know where to begin with a re-sale...do I need a realtor? I'll contine with my "due deligence" and I also appreciate any tips you could send my way...thanks again, everyone!

No Realtor Needed.

bongo said:

I don't know where to begin with a re-sale...do I need a realtor?

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After you've made your deal -- you know, buyer makes offer & seller accepts -- it's helpful to employ the professional services of a timeshare closing services agency.

A timeshare closing services agency is pretty much like a regular real estate closing services agency except that it specializes in timeshare sales transactions.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

AwayWeGo;599030it's helpful to employ the professional services of a timeshare closing services agency. [RIGHT said:

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.[/RIGHT]

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You definitely want to do this if you buy resale! I wish you lots of luck on your endeavor and so glad you found TUG first!

Janna

bongo said:

Wow, thanks for your valuable feedback! You know, I've been on TUG for just a couple of weeks and have learned so much - I'm amazed. There seems to be an art to timeshare usage - the more I learn, the more I realize I have yet to learn. I'm really having fun I don't know where to begin with a re-sale...do I need a realtor? I'll contine with my "due deligence" and I also appreciate any tips you could send my way...thanks again, everyone!

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There are great deals to be had on EBAY. Just make sure the seller has good feedback and uses a closing/escrow company. When in doubt you can always ask on TUG is anyone has bought from a seller.

In your original post, you wrote that converting to points is a big deal to you. If you buy resale, you won't be able to convert to points since the unit is marked in the Marriott system as restricted from converting to points.

That price seems pretty steep to me for a GC EOY......you can pick these up on E-Bay for around $10K.

I would think the $7 K you would save could buy quite a few plane tickets to Vegas?

bongo said:

I also appreciate any tips you could send my way...thanks again, everyone!

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Here are a few tips:

• Keep reading, reading, reading this board
• Find the names of reputable timeshare agents on this site. You will find a few names if you search
• Search on your own. Look at the tug classifieds, redweek, and there are others
• Get familar with what recent asking prices are, remember they are only asking prices
• Look at dioxides website that has recent sale prices
• Find the names of reputable timeshare closing companies that specialize in timeshares. You can find them on this board if you search
• Figure out how much you want to spend, and make an offer. Remember you are in the driver's seat. You can always increase your offer.

You can also go rent a week to see if timeshares is what your looking for.

Steel5Rings said:

That price seems pretty steep to me for a GC EOY......you can pick these up on E-Bay for around $10K.

I would think the $7 K you would save could buy quite a few plane tickets to Vegas?

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Own several timeshares but not Marriott. Just went to presentaion at Aruba Surf Club and was told that Mattiott absolutely has Right of First Refusal and will commit to 60% of FMV? If so, wouldn't they make low-ball offer to ebay seller to buy for $11,000. Ebay seller gets $1,000 more than asking price and Marriott prevents prospective buyer from getting a great deal (which would infuriate recent buyers who paid $17,500 FMV Marriott price). What am I missing?

freddy said:

Own several timeshares but not Marriott. Just went to presentaion at Aruba Surf Club and was told that Mattiott absolutely has Right of First Refusal and will commit to 60% of FMV? If so, wouldn't they make low-ball offer to ebay seller to buy for $11,000. Ebay seller gets $1,000 more than asking price and Marriott prevents prospective buyer from getting a great deal (which would infuriate recent buyers who paid $17,500 FMV Marriott price). What am I missing?

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No matter what you were told at the Surf Club, Marriott doesn't have a fixed set of rules dictating the price at which they will invoke ROFR.
MGC is a good example as Marriott has almost two towers of it's own invetory to still sell so they're not as keen to pick up 'extra' weeks via ROFR (although they will if the price is right). Hence they are far more likely to let units pass for lower % of Marriott Selling Price than at a resort like Aruba Surf or Aruba Ocean where they have little or no inventory of their own.

p.s Marriott doesn't really care about 'infuriated recent buyers', they only use ROFR to make easy cash...buy low sell high...a true classic

A compromise

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the great feedback...it came from every which way and from every direction it seems...perfect!

I'm still somewhat undecided between the two - direct or resale, as there are benefits for both. So...I decided on a compromise of sorts. Seeing as there are some great re-sale prices available out there on EY and EOY 1-bedrooms especially, I thought I'd start there and try out the system. I can always grow it from there and consider buying direct if I still feel I could benefit from the points. Being able to purchase points is also a nice option to complement the re-sale purchase. I'm not quite sure why I've been in such a hurry to buy...I'll just take my time.

I understand there are enhancements in the works with regard to internal trading, etc. so those are some things I'll look forward to if it means buying direct.

Thank you!

Keep an eye on these 4

According to a recent Marriott owners presentation that I attended they listed the top ten traders within the MVCI. The top two traders were in HI. (Maui and Ko Olina) They are expensive ts to purchase.

After that there are four on the mainland that that are less expensive (re-sale or direct) that may be good purchases if you are looking for trade value. Number 3 best trader was suprisingly (to me), Park City. Four was Timber Lodge. Five and six were Grand Chateau and Newport Beach. Kaua'i and Waiohai were 8 and 9 respectively.

As you can see the four best traders on the mainland are not the most expensive units in the MVCI universe. (If you can believe what is said in these owners meetings.) Also, the seasonal designation is important in any trading.

You might also want to consider a two bedroom rather than a one bedroom. A two bedroom lockoff will give you more trade value for your money. Of course the most important decision in purchasing a ts is where you think you will be spending the most vacation time. Trading is secondary.