Marriott Issues--Interesting vis a vis Starwood

Not that I want to be a Starwood apologista, but I do find it interesting to read the Marriott board and see their owners complaining about not being able to reserve their home resort weeks:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90162

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89500

Not sure why it would be (actually, I do have a theory), but I have never heard of a Starwood owner not being able to reserve their home resort at 12 mos. out.

I'm not trying to Marriott bash--I'm just looking for the silver lining in being a Starwood owner.

Glorian

I have said it many times before, but I will say it again.

We are very happy Starwood owners!

MF's may be high, online check-in is desired but we have been happy with our use and stays.

Glorian - If I've got it right, I understand that multiple week Marriott owners can reserve before 12 mos. out, and single week owners can't. So sometimes at 12 mos. out during high season, everything is already booked.

I believe the problem with Marriott relates to the fact that you must first reserve something at your home resort in order to exchange through II even for another Marriott property. Because II uses the 'exchange value' of your deposit in order to determine what you might get in exchange, this provides an incentive for Marriott owners to reserve the best possible week at their home resort even if they don't plan on using it except to exchange for something else. I believe the Starwood internal exchange system works much better. Of course Starwood owners complain that Starwood selects the week to deposit in II for an external exchange, but at least it helps insure that the most popular weeks remain within the internal exchange network rather than going out on II.
Doug

it's refreshing to here other owners at a hotel based timeshare have complaints. tha't the reson i bought with starwood, friends of ours always complained about that problem.

Only half of the inventory is available at 13 months out. However those with two "only" weeks can be trumped by those with 3 or 4 weeks --- when all are looking for those same "prime" weeks.

In additional to that issue, the fact that the "platinum" season is so big (i.e. MANY owners with these floating weeks) and so many are trying for the same weeks in January --- how does any system handle that concentrated demand.

Sounds a little like selling a 6 month ski season at a nice ski resort -- that has 3 or 4 ski months.

DeniseM said:

Glorian - If I've got it right, I understand that multiple week Marriott owners can before 12 mos. out, and single week owners can't. So sometimes at 12 mos. out during high season, everything is already booked.

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DeniseM said:

Glorian - If I've got it right, I understand that multiple week Marriott owners can before 12 mos. out, and single week owners can't. So sometimes at 12 mos. out during high season, everything is already booked.

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Multiple week owners of the SAME season weeks can reserve at 13 months out. So if I have a Platinum Shadow Ridge (Spring) and a springtime season Orlando week at Marriott, I can call at 13 months and reserve my week at SR and my week in Orlando. But if the seasons are not the same, you can't do this little trick.

K

SDKath said:

Multiple week owners of the SAME season weeks can reserve at 13 months out. So if I have a Platinum Shadow Ridge (Spring) and a springtime season Orlando week at Marriott, I can call at 13 months and reserve my week at SR and my week in Orlando. But if the seasons are not the same, you can't do this little trick.

K

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The key being that the 13-months reservation has to be for consecutive OR concurrent reservation weeks. Not sure that the season type/name matters...

Like tomandrobin, I have also been very happy with Starwood. Last year I exchanged with a Marriott owner. They were ecstatic that they had actually been able to reserve a week at their home resort (Marriott Waiohai) during the summer at exactly 12 months out. They had no flexibility to change anything to exchange with me, though. I had no trouble finding the week they wanted (happened to be the same one) in Maui at something like 10 months out when I found out about their desire to exchange. They were unable to make any changes at their home resort and I felt I had far more flexibility.

The Starwood staff in Maui was also far superior. The Waiohai didn't have anyone to help with luggage. There were few self service carts to get your luggage to the room and they were all taken when I got there in mid morning. The front desk staff was not very helpful. They said they were a "timeshare" and they couldn't provide services like a hotel. Basically they could check you in but were not interested in trying to help with any issue with a room. The housekeeping staff barely smiled. The SVN staff at WKORV, WKORV-N, WKV and WMH has always been much friendlier to me. The resort itself was nice, but the service could not be compared with SVO. I don't know if their maintenance fees are lower, but their service should shows a difference.

Even the II exchange I did once worked out just fine. SVO didn't deposit a week in my resort (WKORV), but they did deposit a 1BR at SDO in exchange for my studio and that ended up exchanging for a 2BR elsewhere. This was on December 29 so it was my fault there was nothing better available, yet the agent tried to help as much as she could. I didn't buy to exchange through II anyhow, though it's nice to have the flexibility. Overall I would prefer the SVN system to stay as is, than to change into something like Marriott. Sure the reservation system could be updated but it works for me now. I also bought somewhere where I am happy going if an exchange doesn't materialize.

Despite all the angst about Starwood ownership I hear on TUG, I'm still very happy that I bought into this system and not one of the other hotel based programs.

i agree with you, for the most part i have been a very happy starwood owner. they have been very good to me.

dcdowden said:

I believe the problem with Marriott relates to the fact that you must first reserve something at your home resort in order to exchange through II even for another Marriott property. Because II uses the 'exchange value' of your deposit in order to determine what you might get in exchange, this provides an incentive for Marriott owners to reserve the best possible week at their home resort even if they don't plan on using it except to exchange for something else. I believe the Starwood internal exchange system works much better. Of course Starwood owners complain that Starwood selects the week to deposit in II for an external exchange, but at least it helps insure that the most popular weeks remain within the internal exchange network rather than going out on II.
Doug

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DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

This IS the problem with Marriott. It is very frustrating to here someone say they booked July 4th at Grande Ocean or February 15th at Ocean Pointe only to turn it in to II. II has made it very clear that all the weeks that have the same demand index value at their respective resorts, have the same trading value.

Please don't do it!

thinze3 said:

This IS the problem with Marriott. It is very frustrating to here someone say they booked July 4th at Grande Ocean or February 15th at Ocean Pointe only to turn it in to II. II has made it very clear that all the weeks that have the same demand index value at their respective resorts, have the same trading value.

Please don't do it!

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My resort system, Monarch Grand has a system of depositing your reserved week like the marriott system does. BUT they don't allow anyone to deposit a holiday week. If you reserve a holiday week, you must use it yourself.

Of course, if you're looking for a holiday week to exchange for, then the fact that marriott owners do that makes it a lot more likely that you'll get one...

Two different ways of doing things, each has pros and cons.

Michael

Good point. If you do not own at a particular resort and are not part of the Starwood Vacation Network you have no chance of ever getting that premium holiday week at that resort.

But, I still believe those who bought that resort are the ones who deserve the most opportunity to use it, not someone trading in. IMHO

SORRY I disagree. I own both and at least Marriott doesn't change the rules after you buy causing severe devaluation of your brand new purchase! Yes, a one week Marriott owner has to be a squeaky wheel to get their week, but it doesn't 'hit the pocketbook' quite so badly.

At Marriott Desert Springs Villas right now in a corner unit with panoramic golf and mountain views and loving it

Another problem we face is the Canadians buy 4-8 Feb/March weeks at Palm Desert and reserve the best units for that whole time. I think Marriott is thinking of a policy change where those owners have to move after 'X' weeks into another unit. How would Starwood handle that situation???

DeniseM: You are correct. At Newport Coast they have a pecking order: Multiple owners -- the more weeks, the higher priority; then one week owners, then Marriott exchangers; then other exchanges. This was related to us at an owner's enhancement meeting onsite when we were there last August.

I am not aware of an SVO policies regarding multiple weeks. If you buy 10 weeks and want to reserve them all at the same place you can (and I like it that way. I plan to spend several weeks in Maui by split my 2BR lock-offs). However the 10 week owner doesn't have preference. Weeks are assigned first come first served to owners that call in. One week owners can call in at the same time as multi-week owners for any given week.

Why shouldn't someone that owns as many weeks as they can afford not be able to use them? Exchanging might be up for debate but use them for themselves should not be controversial.

emuyshondt said:

I am not aware of an SVO policies regarding multiple weeks. If you buy 10 weeks and want to reserve them all at the same place you can (and I like it that way. I plan to spend several weeks in Maui by split my 2BR lock-offs). However the 10 week owner doesn't have preference. Weeks are assigned first come first served to owners that call in. One week owners can call in at the same time as multi-week owners for any given week.

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It is my understanding as well that no matter how many weeks a SVO owner owns, they can book their home resort/season at 12 months out and their home resort/non-season and non-home resort/any season at 8 months out. These windows open as of the ARRIVAL day of a planned reservation, and a multi-week reservation CAN be booked at that time (which is important to know for the reason set forth below).

Since multi-week owners have more weeks and/or StarOptions than single week owners, they can do the following trick to essentially beat these booking windows and thereby beat single week owners to the best inventory/villas:

1. Book a multi-week reservation that includes the actual week one wants to travel at the tail end of that multi-week reservation. The arrival date of that multi-week reservation is within the 12 month/8 month ARRIVAL DATE booking window thereby complying with the above rule.

2. When the ARRIVAL DATE of the actual week one wants to travel enters into the 12 month/8 month booking window, cancel the earlier portion of that multi-week reservation leaving the multi-week owner with only the desired week (and the best time/date stamp possible for purposes of villa assignment, etc.)

SVO may or may not charge a $29 fee to change the reservation when the earlier, place-holder, week(s) is/are canceled. Also, this trick is randomly permitted by SVO agents. Some will allow an owner to do it, while others won’t. Multi-week owners just have to keep calling SVO until they find an agent that gives the right answer.

This above “rule beater” trick is an indirect benefit of being an elite SVO owner. Shhhh don’t tell SVO or they’ll cancel this benefit too.

-nodge

grgs said:

Not that I want to be a Starwood apologista, but I do find it interesting to read the Marriott board and see their owners complaining about not being able to reserve their home resort weeks:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90162

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89500

Not sure why it would be (actually, I do have a theory), but I have never heard of a Starwood owner not being able to reserve their home resort at 12 mos. out.

I'm not trying to Marriott bash--I'm just looking for the silver lining in being a Starwood owner.

Glorian

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Sounds like you are marriott bashing to me :0)

But honestly, you need to compare apples to apples. I don't even think Marriott and Starwood are even in the same playing field. For one Marriott has WAY more members than Starwood. Starwood hasn't experience a lot of the growing pains as Marriott has. It is definitely a smaller group. I own at both and there are pluses and minuses to both. I do like Marriott better for reserving outside your home resort. For example, I was able to trade my 2 bedroom Shadow Ridge week for a 2 bedroom at Ko'Olina during Thanksgiving. And, before you say oh but the economy is down so, of course that is an easy trade. This is my 2nd time doing this trade. I was also able to do this trade at 12 months out. This allowed me to use my frequent flyer miles to go. When I did the same trade within Starwood, I had to wait until 8 months out. I wanted to trade my 2 bedroom at WKORV for a 2 bedroom at WPORV. I was only able to secure a 1 bedroom. Also, I had to bank on that I would get that trade at 8 months.

Anyways... I've owned Marriotts for 6 years now and I've never had a problem booking my week. I call at 12 months and I book only on school holidays. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.

I also own both marriott and starwood - hawaiian weeks
Never had trouble reserving either
But I do very much appreciate the online reservation system at Marriott
Go online and you can see the weeks available to you and reserve online for u your view even if it is past the 8 month date if its available you get your view and having an online chart allows you to see the range of dates available

ciscogizmo1 said:

Sounds like you are marriott bashing to me :0)

But honestly, you need to compare apples to apples. I don't even think Marriott and Starwood are even in the same playing field. For one Marriott has WAY more members than Starwood. Starwood hasn't experience a lot of the growing pains as Marriott has. It is definitely a smaller group. I own at both and there are pluses and minuses to both.

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Truly, my intent was (and is not) to Marriott bash. While I don't own any Marriott weeks, I have stayed at their resorts and think they're quite nice. Obviously, they've got Starwood beat in the number of different locations hands down. In addition, it does sound like their online reservation system is much better.

Rather, my intent was to point out that for all the criticisms Starwood owners voice, this is one complaint I haven't heard before. I agree that the two systems are quite different, but I think in this one regard it is an apples to apples to comparison: the size of the entire system doesn't really come into play when considering whether owners at their home resort can easily book at 12 mos. out. Whatever the reasons, this seems to be an issue with Marriott, but not Starwood.

At some point, I may consider a Marriott week, so it's good to hear that some of you have never had a problem reserving a popular week at 12 mos. out.

Glorian

I only own Marriotts now and since buying Marriott BeachPlace Towers pre-construction I have never had a booking problem 13 months ahead of check in day for 4 weeks in a row starting President's week. Not once have I missed getting those weeks...and they were for two 2-bdrm suites split into four parts so I get 4 weeks on the beach in a row for $150 extra admin fee ($75x2). Same thing for booking Marriott Manor Club over the July 4 weeks - never missed. But, I'm on the phone as the phones open for all of them. 12 month booking for single resorts are more of a struggle for prime weeks.

If a resort has 200 suites and 10,000 owners there is going to be demand for prime weeks ... and once the first 200 are gone, that's it...and half of them are gone 13+ MONTHS ahead. Surprisingly, because owners hear the nonsense about better trading power owners book those weeks without planning on using them and deposit with II -- giving traders another chance to grab a top week on exchange. Nice...for some. I use my weeks - nothing else appeals to me so I don't do a lot of trading unless II provides AC's -- I've often traded a prime week to get the same week at the same resort and get an AC. If II doesn't give AC's they don't get my trade. II isn't anywhere near as reliable or 'Marriott' oriented as they were in the past ... so we're all waiting for the expected launch of Marriott's new exchange system.

Brian

I have been a single week owner at Marriott Canyon Villas since 2002. For the past two years, I tried to reserve the spring break weeks and it's always an ordeal. Quite a few times, I called at 6am sharp only to be told none were available. Then I wait for another week to go through the same routine. I did manage to get spring break weeks (may not be the best week or best check-in date but still within spring training nonetheless) for both 2008 and 2009 and I will be trying again for 2010. It's just a big hassle.

I also managed to rent both weeks out at more than double my M/F. Even for 2009, I had no problem getting multiple offers when the economy is in such a dire state. So in the end it is worth it to me after getting up at 6am several times in order to reserve a March week. With my limited knowledge of SVO, I think I would still prefer Marriott over Starwood. One advantage is I can split my week and deposit with II. I always get a bonus week AC so it effectively makes one Marriott week worth three weeks of vacation. Besides, all three deposits get 21 days exclusivity for Marriott trading and I get very good exchanges for other Marriott properties because of that. I don't believe Starwood owners get bonus week when depositing with II but I could be wrong.

Not yet!!!

Cathyb said:

SORRY I disagree. I own both and at least Marriott doesn't change the rules after you buy causing severe devaluation of your brand new purchase!

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Not yet, but if Marriott dumps II and moves to a point based internal trading system (like Starwood) there will be a lot of unhappy owners. The prices of low trading weeks or resorts will plummet.

Also, it Marriott prohibits resale buyers from the internal trading program (like Starwood) resale prices at all resorts will be severly devalued. If you don't believe me just check the resale prices of Westin Mission Hills compared to Westin Kierland Villas.

-TJ