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Sandcastle P'town owners -Festiva

Please be aware that as an owner at Sandcastle I would be extremely upset if the management were to pass my personal information on to any third party, including other owners, outside businesses, etc.

I have discussed this with several other owners and they feel the same way.

Management take note.

For the many new posters here on TUG, this is probably a NEVS post and possibly even Cliff himself. This "guest" has a total of one posts. To find this thread that has been running for months, read it, and as an owner feel that the only input you need to give is to tell Mgt that they would be upset if their information was passed to anyone including owners is ridiculous. Everyone see this for what it is. This is probably a shill post IMO. NEVS and/or Outfield and/or Festiva must be very nervous if they have resorted to posting fake posts like this. It looks like someone got someone's attention. :clap:
 
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Hey Tombo, my favorite conspiracy theorist!! Isn't it kind of you to attack a newbie's first post. Particularly from you who's posted almost 1,500 times on everything under the sun here on Tug. (check him out for yourselves, folks) I've noticed you only attack people who might not agree with you. What's the matter, don't you believe in free and open dialogue? Or would you rather keep trying to intimidate people who know more than you do? I think it's obvious to everyone on here that you're nothing more than some guy with nothing else to do than to try and create problems where none exist. Goodness, gracious, Tombo, you don't even own at the resort and as near as I can tell, you've never even been there. And yet, you have opinion after opinion without any actual knowledge. Hey, here's a thought. How about actually visiting a resort and finding out what's going on before you shoot your mouth off?

Cliff

P. S. I promise you I don't need anyone to speak for me. I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself and I have no need to hide behind a fake name, either.
 
Hey Tombo, my favorite conspiracy theorist!! Isn't it kind of you to attack a newbie's first post. Particularly from you who's posted almost 1,500 times on everything under the sun here on Tug. (check him out for yourselves, folks) I've noticed you only attack people who might not agree with you. What's the matter, don't you believe in free and open dialogue? Or would you rather keep trying to intimidate people who know more than you do? I think it's obvious to everyone on here that you're nothing more than some guy with nothing else to do than to try and create problems where none exist. Goodness, gracious, Tombo, you don't even own at the resort and as near as I can tell, you've never even been there. And yet, you have opinion after opinion without any actual knowledge. Hey, here's a thought. How about actually visiting a resort and finding out what's going on before you shoot your mouth off?

Cliff

P. S. I promise you I don't need anyone to speak for me. I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself and I have no need to hide behind a fake name, either.

Dear capeguitarguy, oops NEVMS, I mean Cliff. A person going by the name capeguitarguy became a member of an owners group started by Sou13. SOU13 found out it was actually you and called you on it. In post 91 you act confused about what this capeguitarguy thing is all about. In post 94 you deny that capeguitarguy is you and you say that you wouldn't have used the name capeguitarguy because it would be too obvious. Later capeguitarguy did end up to be you as was shown in post number 126. http://twitter.com/capeguitarguy/status/1691771781
How I could possibly think that you might hide behind a fake name?

Let's see. You say no problems exist, yet complaints have been filed with the AG.That usually means that there is a problem.

I started posting on this thread to warn owners about Festiva because of what has happened and what is still happening at MY RESORT since Festiva took over. Please re-read my early posts. Most of the things I warned about have occurred. I warned about the board being taken over, you have placed Outfield Mktg people as trustees. My warning was justified. I warned about forced assessments with no vote of the owners. The assessments also came as I warned. I warned that they would be told that upgrades would be required and that too has occured. I warned that many owners would be tricked into converting to Festiva points and that too has happened and is still happening. My conspiracy theories have come true and dates on posts show that I predicted these things before they happened. I am either psychic (I am not), a good guesser (possibly), or I simply assumed correctly that the actions that were taken at other resorts would also be taken at this resort unless owners could prevent it.

My opinion of Festiva hasn't changed. I still feel that Festiva is a bad company for owners since they take over resorts and leave owners with no vote as to the direction the resort takes, no vote on assessments, no input on upgrades, and no choice in having a company other than Festiva manage the resort since they eventually control the vote and the board.

I have not posted anything on this thread until today since April 27th, yet complaints about NEVMS, Outfield Mktg, and Festiva continue to be posted by many who do own there. I had left the thread to owners and read often while not contributing since my main contribution was warnings about what would happen. The owners are now dealing with what has happened and what is continuing to happen. On TUG one does not have to be an owner to particpate in discussions about a resort, I have just chosen not to join in for a while. BTW, after not posting here for over 2 months I would have expected a nicer welcome back from you Cliff. I guess we aren't tight anymore.

I said it could be your post, it could be Festiva's, it could be NEVMS's post,it could be an Outfield post, it could be capegitarguy's post, it could be an actual owner's first time post, we will never know for sure. As far as pointing out the fact that a first timers post is so slanted towards the NEVMS position of not wanting to let owners collaberate by getting each other's addresses, I had to point out the obvious. Boy did I hit a nerve. You are usually so calm and reserved in your responses.

For someone to finish their inaugural post with the statement" managment take note", geez, give me a break. It sure is nice for you to be able to say see why we won't give out owner's information and then be able to reference that post by an anonymous guest who has made a total of one posts ever here on TUG. That is awfully convenient for you. In 153 posts on this thread no one else has ever said that they didn't want management to give other owners their information, but this poster has somehow found several owners who feels the same way. Where did he find the other owners? No one is suposed to be able to get personal information from mgt, so it would be nice to know how this poster contacted the other owners that feel the same way. It obviously wasn't on this thread. Only Outfield Mktg seems to be able to access the owner's personal information, and that is purely for the financial benefit of Outfield/Festiva/NEVMS, not for the benefit of the owners.


If someone here believes that a first time poster felt compelled to post this on TUG to prevent MGT from releasing their personal info (rather than just calling the resort), and if you believe that they have also discussed it with other owners who feel the same way, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you and some valuable Festiva points to swap for your worthless summer weeks.

It is good to talk to you again Cliff. I am very surprised at how sensitive you are about a post made by someone you don't know. Maybe you are starting to become a defender of the little guy. That would be good news for all of those who were tricked into surrendering the good weeks they owned for points that are almost worthless. Now there is something for you to get indignant about.
 
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And the lies continue...

I have a piece of paper that says, "Not involved with Festiva or Outfield."

The paper is signed by Cliff Hagberg.

And yet, "anyone can look it up," in Cliff's response to the Outfield and NEVS business relationship.

Nice transparency, Cliff.
 
From Cliff's Southcape post #407:

1. It is not inappropriate for me to be in business with Outfield in any way.

2. Outfield is bringing owners up to date on what's happening at the resort and offering owners an additional vacation exchange opportunity by joining Festiva Adventure Club.

3. Tom Franks and Steve Lamantia have interests in Outfield. I do not.

4. Festiva has no relationship with anyone other than that Outfield is an agent for Festiva resorts. Outfield and I own NEVS. Franks, Lamantia and I are trustees at Southcape.
 
Hi Jack

How many times do I have to tell you. I have no ownership or interest in either Festiva or Outfield. You and I have written and spoken personally and you still refuse to believe anything I tell you. I can't help that.
 
From Cliff's Southcape post #407:

1. It is not inappropriate for me to be in business with Outfield in any way.

2. Outfield is bringing owners up to date on what's happening at the resort and offering owners an additional vacation exchange opportunity by joining Festiva Adventure Club.

3. Tom Franks and Steve Lamantia have interests in Outfield. I do not.

4. Festiva has no relationship with anyone other than that Outfield is an agent for Festiva resorts. Outfield and I own NEVS. Franks, Lamantia and I are trustees at Southcape.


IMO you thrive on semantics and half truths. You say you have no ownership. You do however do business with and profit from Outfield/Festiva in some way. How can that relationship be construed by you to mean that "you are not involved"?

If you and Outfield JOINTLY own NEVS (which is what you stated in your own post), then you are doing business with Outfield (something you admit is inappropriate). You and Outfield are BUSINESS PARTNERS in NEVS! You are also trustees with the Outfield owners doing all sorts of business together upgrading, renovating,hiring contractors, increasing MF's, and assessing. It is so disengenuous for you to try and say that you have no business connection to Outfield when you and Outfield are joint owners of NEVS and when you are the one who chose Outfiled to market Festiva at this resort. Choosing them to market your weeks is a BUSINESS relationship and I am sure that there is a signed contract between you/NEVS and Outfield/Festiva. I am sure there was something in it for you BUSINESS wise or else you would not have allowed Outfield/Festiva to market at this resort. You normally market yourself and make a lot of money while saving the resort from bankruptcy (singlehandedly) as you have claimed here numerous times. If you have given up the marketing rights and income to Outfield/Festiva, you are being rewarded in some way. You are too smart of a businessman to have just handed them the marketing rights while getting nothing in return.
 
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I don't care whether you have ownership interests or not

Hi Jack

How many times do I have to tell you. I have no ownership or interest in either Festiva or Outfield. You and I have written and spoken personally and you still refuse to believe anything I tell you. I can't help that.

In my opinion. the Festiva, Outfield, NEVS relationship is the devil's triumvirate for hurting individual interval owners.
 
Since neither of you are even an owner at Sandcastle, why should I even bother to respond to either of you?
 
Hi Jack

How many times do I have to tell you. I have no ownership or interest in either Festiva or Outfield. You and I have written and spoken personally and you still refuse to believe anything I tell you. I can't help that.

Public documents contradict this claim. A $2.5 million dollar loan by NEVS puts Cliff and Outfield as interested parties in paying off a mortgage on Sandcastle and Southcape. Loan payments aren't going to wait until the real estate markets picks up and Cliff can resell the "unsold inventory."

Unfortunatley, for owners at Southcape and Sandcastle, the quickest way for NEVS to repay the loan is to sell points which are nearly worthless to anyone but the people who sell them at $3000 a pop. It's hard to sell points...just look at the Wyndham points for resale on ebay....the harder it is to sell, the harder the sell.

This is the second time Cliff has acted with supposed outrage on this board that Outfield Marketing is making outrageous claims...this good cop/bad cop thing is nothing new. Festiva tried to use it to defend itself against a case with the AG in MO, trying to claim that the reps it was employing where third party. Well, let's just see who those reps were? Here's one who was visiting people's homes in MO just before the AG slapped Festiva with a fine. Hmmm...he works for Outfield Marketing!

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...tiva_Outfield_Marketing-Branson_Missouri.html

Oh, and his name is Steve Lamantia. Look at the claims Steve is making from this post. Sound familiar? Where is Steve today? Cliff saw fit to found a company with this guy from Outfield Marketing and serve with him as trustee and take out a $2.5 million dollar loan against units at your resort. No interest, indeed.
 
Ah, Mr. Fig!! Another interloper who doesn't own at the resort!


For the record, Cliff, I was interested in buying at Sandcastle. A July 4th week, non-the-less. When I called the resort, I got a recorded message about Outfield Marketing. I did some research on Outfield and that led me to Festiva. Not a good investment, I concluded with you and Steve and Tom having taken out a $2.5 million dollar mortgage at the top of the real estate bubble.

You see Cliff, I didn't want to be upgrading your investment while you and your friends paid no assessments on the units you wanted to resell. Futhermore, I didn't want to be subjected to the hard sell of Outfield Marketing...whoever they may be. I didn't want you giving my name to some Outfield sales rep who had no interest in the resort. Steve and Tom, your fellow trustees seem to have a problem with their marketing techniques not only with people who have posted here, but with state and federal governments as well...in MO just before the AG slapped Festiva with a fine for their sales claims Steve was making the same kinds of claims that you seem shocked and dismayed at with Sandcastle folks. Tom Franks, the president of Outfield has been cited by no less than the FCC for his marketing escapades.

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2002/EB-02-TC-256.pdf

Maybe you can explain how you and Tom and Steve managed to get a $2.5 million dollar loan? Did you use the building at 135 E Hickory, Outfield's TX headquarters, as collateral which is worth a whole $1,450 dollars?

http://www.dentoncad.com/index.php?...tive=on&Year=2009&MinVal=0&MaxVal=&Results=10

Or were you forced to go to Festiva who seems to have the deepest pockets of the three of you to help with the loan and would explain why Festiva points are being pushed so hard?

In the days of the internet, it's kinda hard to run from facts. Interloper?...I always have felt welcomed here
 
So you're agreeing with me that you're not an owner! Perhaps we should start a new group for people who want to complain about resorts at which they don't own? Perhaps we could call it Figertom . . .

It would sort of be like me complaining about RCI if I weren't a member and had never tried to make an exchange. Boy, I'd have a lot of credibility if I did that, wouldn't I . . .
 
So you're agreeing with me that you're not an owner! Perhaps we should start a new group for people who want to complain about resorts at which they don't own? Perhaps we could call it Figertom . . .

It would sort of be like me complaining about RCI if I weren't a member and had never tried to make an exchange. Boy, I'd have a lot of credibility if I did that, wouldn't I . . .

Nah, you got your hands full dealing with owners who have issues with all the fun you, Outfield and Festiva are causing. And, I am not complaining...just dealing in facts, Cliff, as a number of people here do...citing public documents, governement filings, posts that have been made by you before you have pressured Tug Board members to have them erased.

You might want to try to be a little factual rather than making silly statements like you have no interest in Outfield Marketing when your investment is directly tied to the outcome of their high pressure selling if it is credibility you are seeking...just a thought.
 
Thanks Fig

I'll say it one last time and hopefully you'll be able to get it.

I do not now, nor have I ever had an ownership interest in Outfield or Festiva. That's a factual statement.

How much clearer can I get?

FYI, we have had very few complaints from owners about either Festiva or Outfield. That's a factual statement. I know, I'm here every day.

Cliff
 
For the many new posters here on TUG, this is probably a NEVS post and possibly even Cliff himself. This "guest" has a total of one posts. To find this thread that has been running for months, read it, and as an owner feel that the only input you need to give is to tell Mgt that they would be upset if their information was passed to anyone including owners is ridiculous. Everyone see this for what it is. This is probably a shill post IMO. NEVS and/or Outfield and/or Festiva must be very nervous if they have resorted to posting fake posts like this. It looks like someone got someone's attention. :clap:


As a new visitor to this site I take great exception to the fact that you have taken it upon yourself to deride my opinion purely because it does not fall in line with your own. I thought the purpose of this site was to ask questions and offer opinions - our own - not only yours - and just because you do not agree with my position does not make it any less valid than your own.

As things stand at present I have no problems with the resort, or the management. Only with your behavior.
 
Cliff-

I AM an owner at Sandcastle, and was out there last week. I along with most of the others there last week was outraged at the amount of out and out lies that where hurled our way by Outfield reps. My meeting lasted about 15 minutes before I walked out, and I honestly can't think of one thing that I was told by the reps that was truthful. Everything from the purchase price for the Sandcastle (6 Million) to the threats for huge assessments (would be waiting for me when I got home) if I didn't buy points, to the resort being dropped by RCI were all lies. Heck even the sign over the door (Ownership Services) is a lie.

Consider this a formal complaint to you from a Sandcastle owner about Outfield Marketing.

I invite all other who ARE owners at Sandcastle, and are not happy with how they were treated by Outfiled Marketing to please file a complaint here so Cliff can see just how many upset owners are out there.
 
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As a new visitor to this site I take great exception to the fact that you have taken it upon yourself to deride my opinion purely because it does not fall in line with your own. I thought the purpose of this site was to ask questions and offer opinions - our own - not only yours - and just because you do not agree with my position does not make it any less valid than your own.

As things stand at present I have no problems with the resort, or the management. Only with your behavior.

Ginny-

How is it you don't have a problem with your name and number being given to Outfield Marketing so they could repeatedly interrupt your dinner trying to sell points, but you would have a problem with concerned owners obtaining the same list? Just curious?

Personally I had no problem adding my information to the owners list being compiled, but was getting really upset with the repeated calls from Outfield Marketing this spring.
 
Thank you, Rambler!

I too heard about a complaint about sales last week and I will tell you what happened. There was a new sales rep who started the previous Saturday. On Tuesday, I received a complaint from an owner who had just received a presentation. I drove to the Sandcastle and met with the owner to hear what had happened. I then looked at the rep's appointment schedule to find someone else he had spoken with. I contacted that owner (who hadn't complained) and spoke with them about what happened.

When I heard the same story from both owners, I contacted Outfield Marketing and explained the situation to them on Wednesday. Outfield sent a memo to the sales staff explaining that, if there were further complaints, the sales rep would be terminated. On Thursday, I was concerned enough to discuss the situation at length with Outfield and on Friday the sales rep was terminated and is no longer associated with the Sandcastle.

On Monday of this week, Outfield sent a senior manager to the resort to retrain the sales reps and to remain on site for the rest of the summer to assure me that no more problems like this would develop. That retraining is going on as I write this.

I have to take a minute to speak about complaints. Every week, I get complaints about front desk staff, maintenance people, office people, even the maid staff. When I can verify that a complaint is legitimate, immediate action is taken no matter who is involved.

Owners and even non-owners who post on TUG have to understand that I can't deal with problems I don't know about. Nor can I deal with problems where owners won't discuss it with me. I had an owner last week demanding that I fire a woman who worked the front desk because the owner claimed that she was rude and abusive. Upon investigation, I was informed by another owner that it was the first owner who was screaming and swearing in the lobby. Our front desk staff refused to deal with her anymore unless she calmed down and stopped swearing at them. The owner then got my number, called me and wanted at least one person fired.

Not all complaints are legitimate but all are investigated and action taken where appropriate. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. I will keep an eye on things to make sure that what you experienced doesn't happen again. You have my sincere apologies.

Cliff
 
Thank you, Rambler!

When I heard the same story from both owners, I contacted Outfield Marketing and explained the situation to them on Wednesday. Outfield sent a memo to the sales staff explaining that, if there were further complaints, the sales rep would be terminated. On Thursday, I was concerned enough to discuss the situation at length with Outfield and on Friday the sales rep was terminated and is no longer associated with the Sandcastle.

On Monday of this week, Outfield sent a senior manager to the resort to retrain the sales reps and to remain on site for the rest of the summer to assure me that no more problems like this would develop. That retraining is going on as I write this.
Cliff

For those of you trying to sort through the veracity of Cliff's post, I offer the following:

Where are these memos, training and senior managers emanating from? Some corporate tower in TX? You want to see the office? Here is 135 Hickory Street, Denton, TX. Hit the "A," hit the button called "street view" to scroll to the left and that little white tool shed valued at $1,450 with the little white truck out front is what Outfield Marketing claims as its sales office.


http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=UTF-...&split=1&gl=us&cid=3790481915987078867&li=lmd

Now who might Cliff be calling at this shed who is quickly drafting memos and sending out senior management?

Can't be the President, Tom Franks, he works as a real estate agent in VA.

Cliff seems to be positing that there was a poorly trained rep that was all to blame...plausible, except for the fact that this appears to be the ONLY way these reps are trained. Here is Cliff responding to similar claims at Southcape in April...


http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?p=704153#post704153

July and as Yogi Berra might say, it's deja vu all over again.


And, as noted in my post above, Steve Lamantia, your trustee was thrown out of a house in MO for making claims that Cliff appears to be shocked, just shocked over now.

You know, you think I might be able to find a post, just a little tidbit where Outfield Marketing got even a passing review...all I find is outrage. This resort in NC felt the need to post on its homepage that Outfield Marketing was lying to its membership.

"some of our owners have been approached while visiting other resorts or at home by members of the sales staff of Outfield Marketing who have made some false statements about Peppertree Maggie Valley during the sales presentation. Two of the statements being made are that “Peppertree Maggie Valley is not in good financial condition” and that “Peppertree Maggie Valley is going to go out of business” if the owners do not convert their week to the Festiva Adventure Club. These statements simply are not true."

http://www.peppertreemv.com/owner.htm
 
Gee Fig, you've got it wrong again. I've been to Outfield's offices and that ain't it!!

Second mistake - Tom Franks does not work as a real estate agent in virginia or anywhere else.

As for my response, you've verified exactly what I've been saying that, when I hear of a problem, I make certain it gets fixed. Thanks for helping me out here.
 
Gee Fig, you've got it wrong again. I've been to Outfield's offices and that ain't it!!

Second mistake - Tom Franks does not work as a real estate agent in virginia or anywhere else.

As for my response, you've verified exactly what I've been saying that, when I hear of a problem, I make certain it gets fixed. Thanks for helping me out here.

Hey, it's the registered legal address for your outfield trustees cut and pasted from your own public statement with the Secretary of the Commonwealth:

DIRECTOR STEVEN
LAMANTIA 135 HICKORY RD.
DENTON, TX 76201 USA


DIRECTOR MARK MONROE 135 HICKDRY RD.
DENTON, TX 76201 USA ( I assume you meant St, since there is no road and it is divided into an East West)

Here's the deed for the office...not to underscore the obvious, but it does say sales office:

http://www.dentoncad.com/index.php?...tive=on&Year=2009&MinVal=0&MaxVal=&Results=10

So your own legal documents...any web serch and the deed for the property all say the sales office is that building in TX...introduce another address and we'll consider it...until then, the record stands.

As for Tom...please find it in your heart to forgive me....I put him in VA, should have been MD. As your own legal document says:


DIRECTOR THOMAS FRANKS 3058 NEMON RD
ANNAPOLIS, MD 21403 USA

Trouble is, there appears to be no Nemon Rd in Annapolis.

However, there is a Thomas C. Franks in the exact same city who IS a real estate agent with the exact same spelling of his name including the middle intitial...imagine?

http://www.incredibleagents.com/rea...ealty-07-Main-St/1921067/Thomas-C-Franks.html

No harm done...I seem to have associated him with an "incredible" agent...you too Cliff, are pretty darned incredible from what I am reading.

Happy to be of service!
 
Hide behind a fake name?

Hey Tombo, my favorite conspiracy theorist!! Isn't it kind of you to attack a newbie's first post. Particularly from you who's posted almost 1,500 times on everything under the sun here on Tug. (check him out for yourselves, folks) I've noticed you only attack people who might not agree with you. What's the matter, don't you believe in free and open dialogue? Or would you rather keep trying to intimidate people who know more than you do? I think it's obvious to everyone on here that you're nothing more than some guy with nothing else to do than to try and create problems where none exist. Goodness, gracious, Tombo, you don't even own at the resort and as near as I can tell, you've never even been there. And yet, you have opinion after opinion without any actual knowledge. Hey, here's a thought. How about actually visiting a resort and finding out what's going on before you shoot your mouth off?

Cliff

P. S. I promise you I don't need anyone to speak for me. I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself and I have no need to hide behind a fake name, either.

Like you hide behind, "if it's a legal issue, I won't answer it." Because you are that close to the edge?
 
Owners Being Coerced

So I was right about one thing, that Festiva has contracted with Outfield Marketing to coerce us into converting to Festiva points!

It appears the owners have the option to decline any offer to convert to points.

When the rep calls, they can just say no to an appointment. Or for that matter just hang up.
 
I don't respond to legal issues because I'm not an attorney. What could be simpler than that. I see people offering legal opinions on here all the time and opening themselves up for all kinds of legal problems. I'm not going to to that.

London, you're absolutely correct. All they have to do is say no and that's that. Thousands of owners have been contacted and a handful claim to have had a problem.

I have a problem right now with Sears. Hey Tombo, Fig, et al, want to help me with that? Maybe we should report them to the attorney general or organize a boycott and disrupt their entire business. What do you think? Ever thought of just saying no?
 
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