Marriot Point System Conversion

I am an owner in the week program at Marriott Phuket. The sales person told me that they are converting the week program to the point program at PHuket. I have to pay US$4250 and will get 20,700 points a year. For this I can do the following:

Use it flexibly in the Marriot Asia pc points program: Bangkok, Las Vegas, Hawaii....no interval charges etc to be paid.

If I book any interval resort from 59 days to 1 Day before check in, they will only charge me a flat 10,000 points per week. That way, i could get 2 weeks per annum if I book it 59 days in advance using my 20,700 points.

Am wondering if this is a good deal...what is the chance of actually getting bookings 59 days to 1 day in advance. Since I don't have children, I am flexible about times of year I can visit.

Does anyone have any views on this conversion, and whether it makes sense.

Sonali

This thread may be helpful, since it outlines some of the details of the point system.

There is a lot of last minute Flexchange availability in II from Marriotts and different resorts as well. I assume over time as more people deposit into the point system (IF more people subscribe to it) there will be more availability, but at the outset I'd expect somewhat limited availability (of course, that's just my guess; however, most last minute deposits and hence availability is currently through II). It may be years before you can reap the benefits of last minute exchanges through this system, and if you look at the conversions in the linked post, you may find you paid a lot of money for an "upgrade" that nets you a week in a studio for your nice 2BR elsewhere.

I wouldn't do it- but that's just imho.

I don't think I would pay $4250 for the points based on the benefits of the program you describe. That is a lot of money and they would really have to offer a lot to justify that expenditure. You can already trade your unit for the places you mentioned with a fee under $200. There must be other benefits?

Amazing that any TS company would ask for that much money with a straight face.

Stick with what you've got if you're happy owning and going there, at least for now. They may sweeten the deal but I doubt they can force you to take it if your deed says otherwise. That's a big price for any kind of 'enhancement' -- and remember that over time, the value of fixed points goes down as costs go up.

Brian

sthaks said:

I am an owner in the week program at Marriott Phuket. The sales person told me that they are converting the week program to the point program at PHuket. I have to pay US$4250 and will get 20,700 points a year. For this I can do the following:

Use it flexibly in the Marriot Asia pc points program: Bangkok, Las Vegas, Hawaii....no interval charges etc to be paid.

If I book any interval resort from 59 days to 1 Day before check in, they will only charge me a flat 10,000 points per week. That way, i could get 2 weeks per annum if I book it 59 days in advance using my 20,700 points.

Am wondering if this is a good deal...what is the chance of actually getting bookings 59 days to 1 day in advance. Since I don't have children, I am flexible about times of year I can visit.

Does anyone have any views on this conversion, and whether it makes sense.

Sonali

Click to expand...

If you're asking if it's a good deal, IMHO it really stinks. They're not giving you anything you don't already have with the exception of 1/2 price leftovers (flexchange). I see no advantage to convert based upon the information you've given and the price Marriott is trying to charge. I'd stick with my weeks ownership just the way it is.

How many exchanges would you have to make to save the conversion price? That's a LOT of exchanges you'd have to make in order to make it worth the cost of admission.

Makes one wonder what if this is a precursor to a future internal trading system, with a roll out in the Asia Pacific market

m61376 said:

Makes one wonder what if this is a precursor to a future internal trading system, with a roll out in the Asia Pacific market

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If it is, I believe I'll just stick with what I have right now. There would have to be more, considerably more, to make me want to give up that sort of cash just to change to a points based reservation system.

What I would think would REALLY stink is that all new owners after the change would automatically be included in the points based system. Those of us that purchased from the developer previously would be asked to poney up even more money. IMHO, they can take that idea and stick it where the sun don't shine.

But, as of now this is all just wild speculation.

Just went to a presentation at Shadow Ridge today. The "very honest salesperson" knew she could only get me to buy based on the point system because she knew I have already purchased a resale, and she knew how little I paid.

So in addition to the old point system with exchanging a week for (now only) 5 days in a hotel and coach airline tix, she was also preaching the new Marriott point system that will be in force next year. The Asian Group is doing it now, but it is coming to everyone next year.

And she warned that those that purchased resale will not be able to join the program at any cost and may have trouble getting into a Marriott t/s as those trading in the point system within Marriott will not be making their timeshares available to II.

She then offered to have Marriott pay me the exact amount I purchased for my DSV t/s if I purchased through Marriott at Shadow Ridge. (the delux new model with a full kitchen in the 2nd lock-off is pretty impressive, by the way)

Jeff

korndoc said:

Just went to a presentation at Shadow Ridge today. The "very honest salesperson" knew she could only get me to buy based on the point system because she knew I have already purchased a resale, and she knew how little I paid.

So in addition to the old point system with exchanging a week for (now only) 5 days in a hotel and coach airline tix, she was also preaching the new Marriott point system that will be in force next year. The Asian Group is doing it now, but it is coming to everyone next year.

And she warned that those that purchased resale will not be able to join the program at any cost and may have trouble getting into a Marriott t/s as those trading in the point system within Marriott will not be making their timeshares available to II.

She then offered to have Marriott pay me the exact amount I purchased for my DSV t/s if I purchased through Marriott at Shadow Ridge. (the delux new model with a full kitchen in the 2nd lock-off is pretty impressive, by the way)

Jeff

Click to expand...

But why pay now and then have to pay again a few months down the road. Marriott is really shooting itself in the foot with how they are handling this "new" system if they require owners who have already paid for their timeshare to turn around and pay them again. This is taking a page right out of the Sunterra/DRI playbook and, if this is how it goes, will make me VERY happy that I bought my weeks to use. If they start telling me I need pay more cash to convert or I won't be able to make a reservation using my timeshare as it was originally sold, I'll go from loving Marriott as a company to a rather strong dislike for how they manage things.

Granted this is all rumor and wild speculation fueled by hungry sales people but, it makes me nervous for the future of our Marriott timeshares and makes me glad that I only own two and did not purchase the additional weeks I had thought about in the past.

IMHO, if they want to go to a points based internal reservation system similar to Hilton Grand Vacation Club and offer those that have purchased at retail pricing the option to join or opt out.......without additional fee's........that would be fine. If they attempt to scare those who paid big bucks to buy direct from Marriott into paying a few thousand more to join some points scheme, then Marriott just took itself down to the level of every other timeshare in the industry.

Why sell something that doesn't exist?

Marriott has gone totally insane with the Marriott salesrep rumored internal Points exchange system. Somehow the salesreps think they are using the rumor helps their sales efforts – nothing could be further from the truth.

We all know that to convert a deeded week into Points is going to cost money up front and an additional yearly fee – this is in addition to a fee to lock-off the unit. More than likely lock-offs won’t be able to be split in order to deposit into the Point system. Then there is the matter of not being able to use II to exchange. You probably will have to pledge deposits years in advance when you sign up for the Points system thus you lose the ability to deposit in II.

New sales might have the conversion cost forgiven - why buy now then? Wait and find out.

Then the entire focus of buying a Marriott week will shift to one of the biggest bang for the Point. Which Marriott will generate the most Points for the least money and MFs. This is a radical departure from going back to the same Marriott year after year.

If the focus is to change from home resort usage to Point conversion then why buy now? Wait and find out which Marriott is the best buy.

But Marriott management feels that grasping for straws is worth it. This is NOT a good sign folks - it is a sign of desperation - selling something that doesn't exist. Marriott could stop this rumor tomorrow with a simple eMail to all salesreps - but it has decided not to.

And of course the last insult will be the fact that when you sell your Marriott week on eBay the Point system will NOT go with it - result is lower resale prices. How is this good for Marriott owners?

If resale prices will be adversely affected - why by now? Wait and find out.

Like I said Marriott has gone totally insane with this rumor it keeps spreading thousands of times a day - it makes no sense at all.

Last week we took a sales tour at OceanWatch and our salesrep couldn't wait to talk about the new Points exchange system - I brought up how stupid the rumor was and he sheepishly agreed that many times it backfired but that management wanted the rumor spread so he spread it around like cow manure....

The ONLY purpose of an internal Points system is to boost sales - the rumor depresses sales; this is insanity Marriott.

I agree Perry. The sales reps only bring up this rumor to stiffle resale purchases, but it really doesn't help their developer sales either. Why would I buy in to something and pay top dollar for an unknown system?

D- on this project...

I like Marriott as a timeshare developer – our Marriotts have greatly benefited our family.

Less than 10% of all timeshares sold in a year are from resales of one owner selling their unit on the free market. Why Marriott seems to be fixated on this is beyond me – resales are the reason Marriott has such a stellar reputation. Wyndham, on the other hand, only has resales worth 5% of the sales price – Wyndham thinks that their owners are their worst competition.

But for whatever reason Marriott is screwing up the idea of an internal exchange system – they could just instruct II to extend the “Marriott only window” from 24 days to 6 months and they would then have their system – takes just one simple eMail and could be done by tomorrow. But noooooo.

If Marriott had their head on straight they would integrate a timeshare Points system with their Destination Club, the Ritz-Carlton Destination Club, and entice high end Marriott owners into that program. Doubt they will do that. The RC-DC is a 100% Points system from inception and not an afterthought to boost sales.

Oh well, its their company to screw up.

Introducing a radically different way of selling and using their timeshares at this time of the real estate implosion is insanity too. It's almost as if a relative of the Marriotts has a high school project going with the internal Points exchange system - they get a D- from me....

Pretend that this Point system will happen as the rumours say it will: Marriott willl be divided into 2 classes of owners:

*the owners that bought direct from Marriott, paid a lot of money, and can sell their units one day only throught Marriott (someone has to charge 40%). They will be able to do whatever they want to do, go anywhere they want to go (Marriotts only, no other TS, no II or RCI)

*the others, the resales people, those whose weeks worth no more than a dollar, weeks that can be sold only on eBay when donated to charity. Those who can only reserve their weeks on their season on their home resorts, no exchanges allowed. Or maybe exchanges allowed using II or RCI, but not to Marriotts (is there life outside Marriott system?)

Try to imagine those 2 different types of owners on the same resort: the high class and the hillbillies, all of them on the same pool at Barony Beach, or Ocean Point, or Ko Olina.

If this happens, we should move to Hilton, Worldmark, Disney, Starwood, Westgate, Wyndham, ...........

Perry- I wonder if they are purposefully having the salespeople mention this new system so as to gauge reactions to it. I agree with you- it seems silly to expect someone to buy now IF a new system is months away that they will then have to shell out more money to buy into. Moreover, as you suggest, they're being expected to pay thousands and buy into an unknown.

OF their overall points system is akin to the Asia Pacific one, all points will incur the same MF's, so that MF's are allotted to points and not resorts. How will that impact the homeowner associations at each resort and what kind of oversight/control will they actually have. MF's will be spread Marriott-wide rather than for a particular resort, which means that unforeseen increases would be spread throughout.

The bigger issue, as I see it anyway, and again assuming it is akin to the Asia Pacific program, is that owners of even Platinum weeks might only be assigned enough points to stay in a studio or 1BR elsewhere.

Marriott owners purchased into a weeks system and are accustomed to getting a week for a week in similar sized (and often upgraded) accommodations. I think there will be a lot of resistance to giving up a nice Manor Club or Grande Vista 2BR, for example, and getting only a studio in Hawaii or the Caribbean perhaps. However, if you look at the Asia Pacific point allocation, that scenario is likely value wise.

And there is also the resale value down the road. Marriott salespeople can claim all they want that they will sell it, but sometimes life intervenes and people can't wait out a 2 or 3 year wait list, or longer. Sometimes they need to sell immediately.

This whole discussion is separate from resale versus direct sales and grandfathering, etc., that has been discussed before. This directly impacts all those owners who have already shelled out big $$'s to buy direct. I see some real big winners and losers here- and the only "winners" I see (besides Marriott) are the owners of certain Platinum weeks which Marriott deems to allocate high point values to, and already incur high MF's. These owners stand to be "awarded" more points and may very well see their MF's decrease overall (again- look at the post from the owner considering the Asia Pacific system). But most owners will find they are shouldering the burden and will not have enough points to make the exchanges they are accustomed to. Perhaps a 1BR or a studio only, perhaps 4 days instead of a week.

IMHO, it's going to be a tough sell. I think a lot of current owners will stay with what they know and continue to exchange in II. I don't think a lot of people are going to opt to pay thousands of dollars unless they can get more- and not less- than they have now. I don't think those owners at relatively low MF resorts are going to want to absorb the cost and risks of higher MF areas.

I think it is very risky for Marriott to try such a vast departure from its business model and introduce something not only new but that requires people already struggling today to pay thousands of dollars for a questionable upgrade.

It's interesting, the sudden escalation in volume about a points system. This from my rep at MOC:

"The other consideration is that Marriott is currently ready to roll out a points program and will aggressively begin to purchase those on the open market and use them for this points based system. What if you wanted to use points and stay 10 days in your 2 bedroom ocean front instead of 14 on a given year? You would not be able to do that with an open market purchase (obviously less flexible) I think you will agree that purchasing through the developer in most cases is the best move and most of my clients are taking advantage of Marriott’s current pricing because of the pricing and peace of mind. You will never have to worry about what Marriott next step is going to be for non developer inventory."

He was pushing me not to buy resale -- I found the conversation interesting, but ended up passing on buying anything at this point because of the uncertainty in the system -- I'll wait until announcements are made and then assess. Interesting that the possible changes did push me towards a decision, but that decision was to wait versus buy (direct or resale).

Frankly, if this does come to pass, it would likely depress resale prices further, and create the opportunity to buy (resale) at the resort you really want, with the tradeoff being the reduced flexibility for trading and access other Marriotts.

Good luck to all,

Greg

m61376 said:

Perry- I wonder if they are purposefully having the salespeople mention this new system so as to gauge reactions to it.
...

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Me? Push someone's buttons?

My brother-in-law just happened to get the same salesrep the day before and the salesrep brought up the internal Points system to him so I was prepared.

Like I've said, bringing up such a system makes no sense to me and I just don't know why Marriott encourages this behavior. They encourage it when they don't tell salesreps to just shut up on this topic.

In the mean time I've got my Gold Summit Watch getting a Platinum Maui Ocean Club already this year and next so I hope they never switch systems.

But there is NO way that you will be able to book anything but 7 days at a time - forget less or more since that immediately gets into scrap days which is just crazy.

Why on earth tinker with a proven, profitable, system like the current one. That is reserved for our federal government - the tinkering part.

Great thread but very upsetting to me.

Here I am doing all of this research of different TS systems for the past 3 months trying to deside which to buy.

For me Marriott seems like the best choice and buying resale seems the best choice financially and then this point system rumor or whatever it is comes out strong.

For me I want to purchase resale but I also love the opportunity of being able to trade at the other Marriotts through II with the marriott advantage so for me I will wait because the points system makes me afraid to buy resale but also if I buy direct I will be spending a whole lot more money on a system which could change next year.

PerryM said:

But there is NO way that you will be able to book anything but 7 days at a time - forget less or more since that immediately gets into scrap days which is just crazy.

Why on earth tinker with a proven, profitable, system like the current one. That is reserved for our federal government - the tinkering part.

Click to expand...

I agree that tinkering with the current system, let alone making drastic changes, is somewhat foolhardy exp. in the current economic climate.

If you look at the Asia Pacific points programs, the booking system is day and not week based (x number of points per day for a studio, for a 1BR, for a 2BR, etc.). So they don't appear concerned about scrap days (which I would think would be a real problem, esp. in smaller resorts). Of course, the complexity of the system and the seemingly inequality between points awarded and point cost may make it so that there are a lot of unused days anyway.

I also wonder what protection people who do elect to buy into the program will have. Will the reservation points required remain fixed over time, or will the "point cost" to book increase while the point ownership remains stagnant (akin to the trading for Marriott Rewards points)? While I realize they are two different point programs, will there be protection either from literal point devaluation or effective point devaluation (meaning that newer resorts over time will have higher point requirements for booking, so that even a Plat. Hawaii week might not be able to book equivalent size accommodations in a future Crystal Shores equivalent type, higher priced resort)?

Unless Marriott is willing to put it in writing that by buying or converting to "X" number of points that you will always be able to trade for a similar sized unit for 7 days in any future resort property built, then there is no purchase protection (or deed equivalent), and the owner will always be subject to the whims of Marriott. Imagine how angry you would be if a point ownership program underwent similar devaluation as did the recent Rewards program. Although it angered many owners, at least it was an ancillary use of their timeshare ownership and not the primary use for most. I think the ramifications would have been far worse if it affected the way the units were primarily used and I know I would want to see some security in writing because we all know salespeople's assurances are basically worthless without it in writing.

m61376 said:

I agree that tinkering with the current system, let alone making drastic changes, is somewhat foolhardy exp. in the current economic climate.

If you look at the Asia Pacific points programs, the booking system is day and not week based (x number of points per day for a studio, for a 1BR, for a 2BR, etc.). So they don't appear concerned about scrap days (which I would think would be a real problem, esp. in smaller resorts). Of course, the complexity of the system and the seemingly inequality between points awarded and point cost may make it so that there are a lot of unused days anyway.

I also wonder what protection people who do elect to buy into the program will have. Will the reservation points required remain fixed over time, or will the "point cost" to book increase while the point ownership remains stagnant (akin to the trading for Marriott Rewards points)? While I realize they are two different point programs, will there be protection either from literal point devaluation or effective point devaluation (meaning that newer resorts over time will have higher point requirements for booking, so that even a Plat. Hawaii week might not be able to book equivalent size accommodations in a future Crystal Shores equivalent type, higher priced resort)?

Unless Marriott is willing to put it in writing that by buying or converting to "X" number of points that you will always be able to trade for a similar sized unit for 7 days in any future resort property built, then there is no purchase protection (or deed equivalent), and the owner will always be subject to the whims of Marriott. Imagine how angry you would be if a point ownership program underwent similar devaluation as did the recent Rewards program. Although it angered many owners, at least it was an ancillary use of their timeshare ownership and not the primary use for most. I think the ramifications would have been far worse if it affected the way the units were primarily used and I know I would want to see some security in writing because we all know salespeople's assurances are basically worthless without it in writing.

Click to expand...

Marriott can create any kind of Point system they want. If snapping up Fri, Sat, and Sun is OK with them then they will have a lot of scraps.

More than likely such a system will demand 7 day reservations 13 months - ?? Before check in and then any number of days. WorldMark does it that way and they work just great.

But this is all guessing on a system that doesn't exist and might never exist - a total waste of time for Marriott and everyone else.

However, if I were a timeshare salesrep and had a tough time trying to sell timeshares when condos right next to the resort have imploded 25% - 60% then I guess I'd be spending a lot of time painting pictures of things that don't yet exist.

Marriott why not just reduce your prices a flat 25% across the board and start selling again? The rumor of Points is just getting old, very old...

pefs65 said:

Great thread but very upsetting to me.

Here I am doing all of this research of different TS systems for the past 3 months trying to deside which to buy.

For me Marriott seems like the best choice and buying resale seems the best choice financially and then this point system rumor or whatever it is comes out strong.

For me I want to purchase resale but I also love the opportunity of being able to trade at the other Marriotts through II with the marriott advantage so for me I will wait because the points system makes me afraid to buy resale but also if I buy direct I will be spending a whole lot more money on a system which could change next year.

Click to expand...

The week exchange system is not simply going to go "poof' and disappear. Marriott intends to roll out a points based option (or so it is rumored) and current owners will have to buy into it if they elect to do so. This option may or may not be offered to current resale owners, but even if the program does roll out even developer owners will have to elect to buy into it. Those that do not buy into it will continue to trade in II like they have been right along, until and IF (and I understand it is a big IF at this point) Marriott decides to also offer a week based trading program.

The important thing to keep in mind here is that there will be many, many owners (and quite possibly most, but certainly many) who are not interested in paying thousands of dollars (purported to be in the 4-5K range in the Asia Pacific offering) to convert into a points program that in many cases will not get them even equivalent to what they own, let about the upgrades that many are used to trading in II.

So worst case scenario is that resale owners will continue to trade in II with other resale owners and with Marriott direct purchasers who do not opt into the new program because they don't want to pay thousands up front, because they want to be sure they can always get 7 days in a 2BR or 14 days by locking out, because they like the fact that they've managed to get upgrades size wise through II and because sometimes they'd like to be able to trade for non-Marriott properties too.

My guess is that Marriott is trying to fix something that isn't broken and I think they will find a less than stellar reception. Of course, that's my opinion, but I know that after crunching the figures given for the Asia Pacific program, if that's what they roll out here (and I would assume they'd have to make things equivalent since they are talking about ownership in the same resorts), I wouldn't opt into it even if given the opportunity.

That said, if you buy at a resort you'd happily visit many years, I don't think you can go wrong buying at today's depressed resale prices. Of course, no one has a crystal ball. But if you wait for "the plan" to come out (btw- it's been rumored for years now) you likely will miss out on many great vacation opportunities while you wait and, who knows, your kids could be grown by then.

Thanks for the pep talk. I needed that.

Still sounds like a greatnidea to buy resale.

Again thanks for all the great advice.

Well, the way I look at it is, I bought a week, and I will at the very least always get my week in my resort. There is always II to exchange into.

potchak said:

Well, the way I look at it is, I bought a week, and I will at the very least always get my week in my resort. There is always II to exchange into.

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And that is something they can not take away. The only thing Marriott is doing right now is to give me a reason NOT to attend a sales presentation and, if we did, it's giving me a great reason NOT to buy right now.

For the last year I've contemplated dumping our two DRI weeks and buying one additional Marriott week. As it stands now I have very little interest in an additional Marriott week while they market the phantom system where the rules don't exist and there's no telling what the future may hold.

dougp26364 said:

For the last year I've contemplated dumping our two DRI weeks and buying one additional Marriott week. As it stands now I have very little interest in an additional Marriott week while they market the phantom system where the rules don't exist and there's no telling what the future may hold.

Click to expand...

Yep. That's the same way I feel about all the uncertainty with health care changes, unemployment, and the deficit. Everything is so uncertain now days that I don't need or want one more thing to worry about.

I'm not going to go out and buy anything and feel confident about doing it when everything is up in the air.