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Marriott exercising right of first refusal at MDS II?

ada903

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I just opened escrow on purchasing two gold weeks at MDS II for $800 each, and I am so scared of the ROFR! Initially we thought the units were in MDS I, where there is no ROFR, but they are MDS II! Any recent experience with ROFR at MDS II?
 

Beverley

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No direct experience, however, Marriott hasn't been exercising ROFR in the recent two years since the economy tanked. Having said that, no one really knows if they will begin again now that they have gone to points. :shrug: You are aware that those units can never be in the points system, correct? Although for $800 each perhaps that just doesn't matter. :ponder:

Good luck with your purchase. :hi: :hi: :hi:
 

ada903

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Yes i know about the points system, we would use the units and also trade them thru II only!
 

camachinist

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Considering what's going on now, and broker reports on ROFR, and member anecdotes, it appears you can buy a Marriott for a dollar and not get ROFR'd right now, or the time limit expires without any response.

Have the seller check their governing documents for the time limit- it should be around 15-30 days. Notify Marriott, then, if no response after the proscribed period, proceed with the transaction according to the GD's. In fact, with all the points stuff going on right now, it might be a really good time to buy if the purchase matches up with your travel strategy :)

Good luck!
 

ada903

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Thanks - i will post an update on the outcome!
 

RedDogSD

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Considering what's going on now, and broker reports on ROFR, and member anecdotes, it appears you can buy a Marriott for a dollar and not get ROFR'd right now, or the time limit expires without any response.

Have the seller check their governing documents for the time limit- it should be around 15-30 days. Notify Marriott, then, if no response after the proscribed period, proceed with the transaction according to the GD's. In fact, with all the points stuff going on right now, it might be a really good time to buy if the purchase matches up with your travel strategy :)

Good luck!

The rumor from the Marriott Salesperson on this site was that they will start exercising ROFR for in demand units only. I really don't think they are going to worry about getting Gold MDS II units as Interval always has tons of them so they can easily trade using II for those if they are demanded.
 

GregT

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I really don't think they are going to worry about getting Gold MDS II units as Interval always has tons of them so they can easily trade using II for those if they are demanded.

This is an excellent comment -- Marriott appears to be able to supplement their own inventory with whatever is available in II -- and since there is good availability for gold MDS II, I think you'll be okay.

Congrats on your purchase, perhaps we will all start collecting Marriotts for cheap as well!

Best,

Greg
 

ada903

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Yes I hope to own a piece of the empire for pennies on the dollar... Despite the painful awareness of ever increasing maintenance fees, special assessments and refurbishment fees, II membership fees, exchange fees, lockoff fees, and many others... Still inlove with timesharing!
 

camachinist

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Also, another strategy is to look at seasons/units/resorts which are over-represented in the trust and make lowball offers on those units. With excess inventory in such seasons, Marriott will be loathe to add more via ROFR, even for one dollar, since they have to pay the MF's and taxes on those purchases.

An example, though it might seem counter-intuitive, is Gold season at Newport Coast. Historically, the 'dog' season there, and supposedly comprises the bulk of the 4MM+ points deeded to the trust by NCV. Right now, they're selliing for about 20% of what I paid (developer) 6.5 years ago, and will likely go cheaper. There are a couple sweet spots in Gold season where rents are nearly what summer Plat weeks rent for, usually 2x or more MF's. Also, Gold season is what I've traded into Hawaii (as well as back into NCV Plat) with in the past through II. It's a workhorse season, not 'pretty' like summer.

Also, with DS2 Gold, if an owner of a Marriott elsewhere, note how its season aligns with your other ownership to utilize the 13 month rule for reservations. With the coming points system, that's an important consideration IMO, to maximize upside potential if points has a negative impact on owner reservations patterns. We won't know for awhile and it might be nothing, but 'hope for the best and plan for the worst'.....

Apply as appropriate to your favorite resort(s) and do the research. In every change there is opportunity. Hope yours goes well :)
 
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GregT

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Also, another strategy is to look at seasons/units/resorts which are over-represented in the trust and make lowball offers on those units. With excess inventory in such seasons, Marriott will be loathe to add more via ROFR, even for one dollar, since they have to pay the MF's and taxes on those purchases.

I completely agree -- if they have tons of inventory already, I would suspect they are much less likely to add to it. As a reminder, this is what they started the trust with (on a points basis):

6,712,500 Ko Olina
6,152,250 Timberlodge
5,292,750 Oceana Palms
5,005,250 Crystal Shores
4,314,750 Newport Coast
3,605,570 MOC-Sequel
3,529,500 Kalanipu'u
2,848,500 Willow Ridge
2,303,250 Canyon Villas
1,017,750 MOC
992,000 Ocean Watch
572,000 Grand Vista
42,346,070 Total
 

curbysplace

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I completely agree -- if they have tons of inventory already, I would suspect they are much less likely to add to it. As a reminder, this is what they started the trust with (on a points basis):

6,712,500 Ko Olina
6,152,250 Timberlodge
5,292,750 Oceana Palms
5,005,250 Crystal Shores
4,314,750 Newport Coast
3,605,570 MOC-Sequel
3,529,500 Kalanipu'u
2,848,500 Willow Ridge
2,303,250 Canyon Villas
1,017,750 MOC
992,000 Ocean Watch
572,000 Grand Vista
42,346,070 Total

Just curious where did you find these numbers?
 

camachinist

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What's wierd about that Cypress Harbor special season is that, researching it on eBay, I saw a week 14 (special season, it said) expire with reserve not met at *315.00*, so, evidently, bidders didn't value it too greatly, obviously not matching up with the broker report and Marriott's decision.

Since it's the first ROFR I've seen in the recent broker reports, is it a canary in the coal mine or a singular event? Unknown.
 

GregT

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Just curious where did you find these numbers?

There is a separate post started by Dioxide on the Trust filings -- I opened each filing and created a spreadsheet of the points deposited -- this was as of March 2010 -- it appears that Marriott designated a certain quantity of weeks to "seed" the Trust.

I'm expecting at some point a second set of filings to add whatever was unsold at June 16, 2010.

Thanks!
 

sparty

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I completely agree -- if they have tons of inventory already, I would suspect they are much less likely to add to it. As a reminder, this is what they started the trust with (on a points basis):

6,712,500 Ko Olina
6,152,250 Timberlodge
5,292,750 Oceana Palms
5,005,250 Crystal Shores
4,314,750 Newport Coast
3,605,570 MOC-Sequel
3,529,500 Kalanipu'u
2,848,500 Willow Ridge
2,303,250 Canyon Villas
1,017,750 MOC
992,000 Ocean Watch
572,000 Grand Vista
42,346,070 Total

Yeah this is great data.. Where is it posted? Will they be adding to it through the 26th?

The real 64 million dollar question is how do the pts translate into which weeks and sizes.. I wish Marriott would be transparent about this.
 
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GregT

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Yeah this is great data.. Where is it posted? Will they be adding to it through the 26th?

The real 64 million dollar question is how do the pts translate into which weeks and sizes.. I wish Marriott would be transparent about this.

I didn't study all propeties, but the property that I personally am most interested in is Ko Olina, so I downloaded the file and studied it for a bit.

If I am interpreting it correctly, there were 1,438 weeks that were deposited (in March) into the Trust, out of 39,000 total weeks possible at Ko Olina. I would also expect that whatever wasn't committed in March and that remained unsold at June 16, 2010 would eventually find its way into the Trust (my assumption).

My very imprecise estimate of the units deposited was as follows:

50% 2BR Mountain View
30% 2BR Ocean View
14% 3BR Ocean View
6% 2BR Penthouse (Mtn)

This suggested to me that it will be easy to get to Ko Olina with Trust inventory, particularly 2BR Mountain View and 3BR Ocean View. I am hoping that translates into both II bulk deposits as well as "instant trades" via MVEC or whatever the Marriott Exchange is called.

Recall that although weeks float, every week has a deed behind it, and you could see the sequence, ie, Marriott deposited (as an example):

Unit 4914 Week 1
Unit 4914 Week 2
Unit 4914 Week 3 etc, for the entire year

So they deposited entire units, every week of the year -- suggesting that there is inventory available to me if I put in an exchange request for that view category, week 2 -- it's right there. Many assumptions here, but I believe I am looking it correctly.

Best to all,

Greg
 

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. . . My very imprecise estimate of the units deposited was as follows:

50% 2BR Mountain View
30% 2BR Ocean View
14% 3BR Ocean View
6% 2BR Penthouse (Mtn)

This suggested to me that it will be easy to get to Ko Olina with Trust inventory, particularly 2BR Mountain View and 3BR Ocean View. I am hoping that translates into both II bulk deposits as well as "instant trades" via MVEC or whatever the Marriott Exchange is called. . . .

Given the relatively large amount of Ko Olina inventory in the Trust, I would assume that it will be easier for both weeks and points traders to snag weeks there. Points traders will get them directly. Weeks traders should be able to get them through II - not necessarily via bulk deposits, but via Marriott using them as trade bait to secure points exchanges. I think those Trust weeks will end up being very valuable to both Marriott and II.
 

GregT

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Weeks traders should be able to get them through II - not necessarily via bulk deposits, but via Marriott using them as trade bait to secure points exchanges. I think those Trust weeks will end up being very valuable to both Marriott and II.

Agreed on all points. This possibility makes me very happy as someone who is interested in Ko Olina.
 

BocaBoy

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We own at Ko Olina and I agree that it will be relatively easy to get in there for the foreseeable future using either II or points, and maybe in perpetuity through points. If I look at 2011 weeks reservations at Ko Olina, most of January through April was still available as of a couple of weeks ago. This is a direct result of Tower 3 being largely unsold as of yet. It is different than it was before Tower 3 opened. And a lot of points owners will not be able to afford Ko Olina on a frequent basis. This is a LOT different than Maui where owners need to reserve their week very early. I doubt that there will be a lot of points availability in Maui, relative to other Hawaii resorts and especially Ko Olina.
 

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We own at Ko Olina and I agree that it will be relatively easy to get in there for the foreseeable future using either II or points, and maybe in perpetuity through points. If I look at 2011 weeks reservations at Ko Olina, most of January through April was still available as of a couple of weeks ago. This is a direct result of Tower 3 being largely unsold as of yet. It is different than it was before Tower 3 opened. And a lot of points owners will not be able to afford Ko Olina on a frequent basis. This is a LOT different than Maui where owners need to reserve their week very early. I doubt that there will be a lot of points availability in Maui, relative to other Hawaii resorts and especially Ko Olina.

If I remember correctly, there were about 620 weeks in the Trust at the MOC. I've been told that the majority (if not all) of them are OV units. GV and OF were sold out when the unsold units were rolled into the Trust. At the beginning, points traders should be able to trade into it without too much trouble (assuming they have enough points). But, over time, I expect the competition will get stronger.
 

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BTW.....It was posted this morning that Marriott has exercised it's ROFR on Cypress Harbour- annual 2br special- $5,500- X

http://www.timeshareforums.com/foru...rofr-info-reported-sales-past-two-months.html

Marriott passed up a great opportunity. When the sales rep told me that the new program enhanced the value of my units and that they were now worth over $50,000, I offered to sell two units for $10,000 and said that "if they buy today, I would let them have a special rate of $9,200). :rofl:
 

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Can Legacy owners access that pool of Marriott inventory listed above or is it only for Trust owners?

Thanks for any help in understanding this mess.
 

Beverley

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Can Legacy owners access that pool of Marriott inventory listed above or is it only for Trust owners?

Thanks for any help in understanding this mess.

Yes, as long as you have the points deposited in the points system, you should be able to reserve what ever is available for the points you have.

Beverley
 

travelplanner70

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But, on other threads it appears that Legacy owners only have access to the Legacy owner points or units in foreclosure. This is what is making it so confusing. Will Legacy owners have access to the inventory Marriott Corp. owns and is depositing?

I am sorry if my question is very confusing. That is my current state of mind. :)
 

GregT

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But, on other threads it appears that Legacy owners only have access to the Legacy owner points or units in foreclosure. This is what is making it so confusing. Will Legacy owners have access to the inventory Marriott Corp. owns and is depositing?

I am sorry if my question is very confusing. That is my current state of mind. :)

It is an important question, do Legacy owners (who've redeemed their weeks for points) have the ability to access the Trust inventory?

I personally believe that we will have enough access to get what we want most of the time, even if there is separation (legally) in the inventory pools.

The reason I believe this is due to Trading Power, which we are all accustomed to from working with II. Our (skimmed) points represent a certain trading power, which I assume is average.

I view the high-quantity inventory (Ko Olina, TimberLodge, Kauai Lagoons) that Marriott has deposited into the Trust as "weak traders" -- because there are so many of them available.

Accordingly, if I put in an Exchange Request with the Marriott Exchange Company, and offer 3,725 points for a 1BR Ko Olina, I think Marriott will make one of their Ko Olina weeks available and match the trade from the Trust Inventory (they are the owner of the week, and I believe they know it's in their best interest for people to get their trades).

Now, assume that I put in an Exchange Request with the Marriott Exchange Company and offer 4,125 points for a 2BR at Frenchman's Cove, of which there are few weeks available in the Trust Inventory (because its only delinquent weeks and MRP trades, apparently), and therefore MFC is a "strong trader" from the Trust. Marriott may hold that week back and not trade for my (skimmed) Legacy Points in case the new Trust Points wants that same MFC trade, and therefore I have to wait until either 1) the MFC week becomes available in II (and Marriott goes out and snatches it, offering a weak trading Ko Olina week from the Trust) or 2) another skimmed points owner (like me) redeems their MFC week for points, making the week available to Legacy Points owners and allowing the match for my trade.

The second scenario is not that different from the II exchange marketplace as it stands today. Frankly, I thought we all assumed that Marriott would be making the Trust Inventory available to legacy points, kind of like a permanent bulk deposit, but the legal separation suggests that they might not be, and they will still be determining when to release that Trust Inventory.

As Puck has said, Legacy Points < Trust Points. And no surprise to anybody here, I resent that the Legacy Points have been skimmed in the first place.

First, the legacy point owners has to get over the principle of receiving skimmed points. In any points system, it is critical to have as many points to work with as possible.

Second, the legacy point owners has to accept that they may have to wait in line until the week desired appears, especially if it is a strong trading week. And the ability of that week to appear is influenced by lots of other people getting over Point #1, and accepting the skim.

I think as long as weeks people remain committed to II as the trading vehicle of choice, then Marriott will be able to match the points trades, because they can go in and make trades for those requested weeks. This may be a reason why they offered the free trades/free II membership is to ensure that deposited weeks are deposited into II.

Interesting stuff.

Best to all,

Greg
 
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