Walking away from Raintree..what could happen?

[csxjohn]

Originally Posted by rrsafety

Could one argue that any owners association that has a $499 transfer fee deserves to be left holding the bag for unpaid MFs? One might think that allowing easy transfer between those unwilling/unable to pay MFs to those who are willing/able to pay MFs would make more sense.

You bring up a very good point. The management company starts charging outrageous fees that make it harder and harder for people to pass their TS on to someone else then the HOA and all the owners pay the price for this practice in increased noncollectable accounts.

A problem exists and this solution of raising the transfer fees just makes it worse.

I just had to pay a $75 transfer fee for a VRI resort in Fla. but I know there are costs involved, maybe not $75, but I can live with that. The $300 that Wyndham charges and the amount you mention are totally outrageous.

Carolinian has brought this up many times that these management companies are probably not permitted to charge this because it's not in the TS's documents but they continue to charge it.

The management company is not left holding the bag, it's the owners of the other units at that resort that are getting stung.

[csxjohn]

Originally Posted by DeniseM

Here on TUG, we hear from people every day who have been sent to collections because they defaulted on their timeshare - you signed a contract and they will do whatever they can to get their money.

...

Two points I'd like to make.

"we hear from people every day who have been sent to collections because they defaulted on their timeshare"

This may be but has anyone had this put on their credit report? There's a big difference.

"you signed a contract and they will do whatever they can to get their money."

For the record I know that I have never signed any contract and do not have any agreement with the time share resorts I have owned. Would a collection agency take this on without proof that I really owe the money? If I decide to quit paying my fees, I will not be allowed to use the unit. If I can't use the unit I don't owe anybody anything for it.

I have had deeds but I never signed them either. They were signed by the previous owners giving me title to the property.

I would suspect that many people have bought TSs resale and don't have agreements with the resorts or their management companies. Does anyone know how this is handled?

[Corman]

Raintree will not list a itemized list of expenses. They use the excuse that they are a private company and are not obligated to. We the owners have a right to use membership.If they ran it more like a membership, perhaps people wouldn't be so hostile towards them.
I am sure the original poster can give away his/her timeshare with the enticements . People are always looking for a great deal.

[rrsafety]

Originally Posted by Corman

Raintree will not list a itemized list of expenses. They use the excuse that they are a private company and are not obligated to. We the owners have a right to use membership.If they ran it more like a membership, perhaps people wouldn't be so hostile towards them.
I am sure the original poster can give away his/her timeshare with the enticements . People are always looking for a great deal.

Does this Raintree property have an owners assoc? Is it real or just a developers front?

[T_R_Oglodyte]

Originally Posted by csxjohn

I would suspect that many people have bought TSs resale and don't have agreements with the resorts or their management companies. Does anyone know how this is handled?

I think you full well know the answer. But for those who might not ....

with a deeded property, the timeshare program documents are integrated into the deed at the time the deed is sold, and continue to govern usage and owner obligations whenever the deed is transferred. The fact that you haven't entered into any with the resort is immaterial. When you acquired the deed you also acquired the associated ownership obligations.

with a RTU it's similar. You acquire a membership, and the membership rules come along with the membership. Again, you don't have to sign anything with the management company. Your acceptance of the membership is also your acceptance of the associated obligations to the operators of the club.

[Corman]

Originally Posted by rrsafety

Does this Raintree property have an owners assoc? Is it real or just a developers front?

Raintree doesn't want a owners association. They set the budget, spend and pretend to care what it members(suckers) have to say.

[iani2012]

Great dialogue going on here and many different opinions. Would anyone care to comment on the fact that this RTU membership was purchased in Mexico, agreement signed under the jurisdiction of Mexico. Raintree Vacation Club in Texas seems to own or manage Club Regina, but if the orginal agreement is not with them, then how could they even go after anyone that does not pay MF.

Is there any US organization that regulates transfers fees and maintenance fees on RTU membership? Seems like an increase from $300 to $900 in 12 years for a studio week is a lot and increase from $200 to $499 on Transfer Fees from 2010 to present.

Why would Raintree not just take back weeks that members want to give back and then re-sell them instead of dealing with collection, then cancelling the membership after a two year period.

There is no mention of a "Transfer Fee" in the original agreement, I wonder is there a way to transfer a RTU to another Tugger without going through this Transfer Fee?

[Corman]

raintree will not take back your mexico week. People aren't buying timeshares,there is no way they will take it back unless you have a valuable week, like christmas, presidents week, ect.As far as I can tell you own points,not a fixed week.

[csxjohn]

Originally Posted by T_R_Oglodyte

I think you full well know the answer. But for those who might not ....

with a deeded property, the timeshare program documents are integrated into the deed at the time the deed is sold, and continue to govern usage and owner obligations whenever the deed is transferred. The fact that you haven't entered into any with the resort is immaterial. When you acquired the deed you also acquired the associated ownership obligations.

...

Thanks for explaining this, I kind of knew it was something like this but wasn't sure.

Originally Posted by iani2012

...Why would Raintree not just take back weeks that members want to give back and then re-sell them instead of dealing with collection, then cancelling the membership after a two year period...

They don't need to take it back because they can just sell and sell more and more memberships at full price and still attempt to make current owners keep paying and paying.

Any laws that may govern timeshares in Mexico seem to be a lot different than how things are done here.

[MALC9990]

Originally Posted by iani2012

Great dialogue going on here and many different opinions. Would anyone care to comment on the fact that this RTU membership was purchased in Mexico, agreement signed under the jurisdiction of Mexico. Raintree Vacation Club in Texas seems to own or manage Club Regina, but if the orginal agreement is not with them, then how could they even go after anyone that does not pay MF.

Is there any US organization that regulates transfers fees and maintenance fees on RTU membership? Seems like an increase from $300 to $900 in 12 years for a studio week is a lot and increase from $200 to $499 on Transfer Fees from 2010 to present.

Why would Raintree not just take back weeks that members want to give back and then re-sell them instead of dealing with collection, then cancelling the membership after a two year period.

There is no mention of a "Transfer Fee" in the original agreement, I wonder is there a way to transfer a RTU to another Tugger without going through this Transfer Fee?

I cannot comment directly since I do not have a Raintree RTU week BUT I do have Marriott RTU weeks and the process that Marriott adopt on the non payment of MFs at their RTU resorts in Europe and Thailand is quite clear.

First note that there are NO owners as such - other than a Marriott company in country - so my Spanish resorts are owned by a Marriott associate company in Spain - same for my Phuket resort - a Marriott associate company in Thailand.

So what happens when a member does not pay their MFs for their RTU week(s).

First Marriott sends a reminder and imposes a late payment fee. Since Marriott allow members to reserve weeks up to 13 months in advance - if when you fail to pay by the deadline then any reservations you have are canceled, as are any deposits with II and thus any exchanges based on those deposits.

If you do not pay at all in that year then when the next year's MF is due you will be expected to pay the outstanding and the next year also. Since you will have been in default all year no reservations could be made for this next year either. If you again fail to pay the MFs and the outstanding and the late payment fees by the next year deadline then more reminders will follow and more Late Payment Fees will be added to the amount due.

Once Marriott decide that you are not going to pay up what is due for the two years MFs and the late payment fees, your week(s) get revoked and you lose all rights to use them in the future.

Revoked weeks are returned to the "UNSOLD" inventory and Marriott will be able to sell them again. You lose all your "investment" - I know its not really an investment but you the ex-owner of the RTU weeks will perhaps have paid many thousands of euros for that week or those weeks.

Once revoked, the outstanding MFs are paid by Marriott to the resort (less some deductions). Marriott continues to sell weeks at these resorts even where they are "sold out" - the weeks come from revoked inventory. Each year the Advisory Boards for my resorts meet with Marriott representatives and the minutes always list the number of weeks revoked in the last 12 months.

So what would this mean for owners at these resorts if they fail to pay the MFs for 2 years - it seems to me that they get quite a lot of hassle from Marriott over the non payment - reminder emails and late fee charges added but after 2 years they walk away but without their RTU weeks.

Of course if they borrowed money to buy their weeks and they still have a debt on the weeks - then that is a whole different kettle of fish. Marriott will have passed to loan onto a finance house and if you fail to make the monthly payments then you are in for some bad credit scores and court action. The end result can be that a Bailiff will turn up with a court order to take payment plus costs from you and that payment may be taken by taking goods from your home or even your car - providing it is not also financed with a loan. These loans are typically made through a loan company in the members own country - in my case that would be a UK finance company - not that I borrowed money to buy any of my weeks. So chasing the loan defaulters is quite easy since the loan will be in your own country of residence.

[rrsafety]

Originally Posted by MALC9990

I cannot comment directly since I do not have a Raintree RTU week BUT I do have Marriott RTU weeks and the process that Marriott adopt on the non payment of MFs at their RTU resorts in Europe and Thailand is quite clear. ...

A perfect example of why low transfer fees make sense or a low 'resort buy-back fee' makes sense (say, one year MFs).

Doesn't help anyone for MFs not to be paid for two years....