Hawaii

formerhater · Oct 24, 2007

tomandrobin said:
So when Princeville is complete and the Sheraton timeshare, there will be three distinct level of Starwood resorts. At least that's how I am reading into all of this information.

I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to. If you're referring specifically to Kauai, there will be two SVO props (Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas and Sheraton Poipu Villas or whatever they're calling it) and two hotels which already exist (Sheraton Kauai, which is in Poipu and The Princeville Resort, which is currently branded as a Luxury Collection Hotel, but will be undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation and rebranded as a St. Regis Hotel). The Westin timeshare will be "linked" to the St. Regis Hotel in Princeville, though they are a mile or so apart. The Sheraton timeshare is slated to be constructed on the same property as the existing Sheraton Hotel.

So there will be two levels of hotels and presumably two levels of SVO props since they are branding them differently, though we won't really know much until they release more info about the Sheraton Villas.

tomandrobin · Oct 25, 2007

formerhater said:
I'm not sure I understand what you're referring to. If you're referring specifically to Kauai, there will be two SVO props (Westin Princeville Ocean Resort Villas and Sheraton Poipu Villas or whatever they're calling it) and two hotels which already exist (Sheraton Kauai, which is in Poipu and The Princeville Resort, which is currently branded as a Luxury Collection Hotel, but will be undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation and rebranded as a St. Regis Hotel). The Westin timeshare will be "linked" to the St. Regis Hotel in Princeville, though they are a mile or so apart. The Sheraton timeshare is slated to be constructed on the same property as the existing Sheraton Hotel.

So there will be two levels of hotels and presumably two levels of SVO props since they are branding them differently, though we won't really know much until they release more info about the Sheraton Villas.

I was refering to Hawaii as a whole, not one island. The three timeshares will give Starwood owners three different levels of resorts. Sheraton brand is the entry level, Westin (Maui) is the mid/upper level and Westin (Kauai) will be upper/luxury level. This is how I am reading into what has been posted. Personally, I think the degrees of separation will be slight.

Isn't the Sheraton timeshare suppose to be across the road, not ocean front? If so, that in itself will knock it down a peg from both Maui and Princeville.

Henry M. · Oct 25, 2007

The WPORV units are almost identical to WKORV-N. WPORV is also not on the beach but at the top of a bluff. The Westin units are all fairly similar to each other. WKORV and WKORV-N have the best beach of all the existing resorts, followed by the Sheraton Poipu (although here the resort itself is across the street from the hotel and the beach - still closer to the water than WPORV, though).

DavidnRobin · Oct 25, 2007

emuyshondt said:
The WPORV units are almost identical to WKORV-N. WPORV is also not on the beach but at the top of a bluff. The Westin units are all fairly similar to each other. WKORV and WKORV-N have the best beach of all the existing resorts, followed by the Sheraton Poipu (although here the resort itself is across the street from the hotel and the beach - still closer to the water than WPORV, though).

In Poipu - the best beach spot is in front of the Marriott a little ways up from the Sheraton beach - called Poipu beach. The Sheraton beach (at least in winter) was steep, had small waves, and criss-crossing currents.

It was always clear that WPORV resides on a bluff - SVO made no claims otherwise. If one needs beach-front - then WPORV is not for them. Similiar to WSJ - the best beaches are a short drive away. While in Poipu - we went to up the road to the Poipu beach next to the Marriott. We walked there a few times, but mostly we drove and parked at the public park there.

Poipu is a great place - no doubt - however, the TSs there are a bit far off in the future. What is realy cool about Poipu is that you can see both the sunrise and the sunset since it at the southern tip of the island.
The northern part (Princeville area) of Kauai has places and sights that are unique in the world.

DeniseM · Oct 25, 2007

tomandrobin said:
I was refering to Hawaii as a whole, not one island. The three timeshares will give Starwood owners three different levels of resorts. Sheraton brand is the entry level, Westin (Maui) is the mid/upper level and Westin (Kauai) will be upper/luxury level. This is how I am reading into what has been posted.

The WKORV and Princeville units are nearly identical in design and decor - the furnishings look identical (W minimalist.) The primary difference will be their locations.

I prefer Kauai, to Maui, but I prefer being right on the beach vs being up on a bluff.

I definitely prefer the weather on Ka'anapali Beach, to Princeville weather.

I don't think there is a clear winner, since so much of it is based on personal preference, but I think the WKORV has a slight edge.

DavidnRobin · Oct 25, 2007

DavidnRobin said:
To put some perspective on this...

The average weather in Princeville Kauai for Aug/Sept (warmest) is L 74-H 85F, and for is Jan (coolest) is L 65 - H 78F (brrrr....)

The average rainfall is ~2" June-Sept and ~4.5" Nov-Jan.

Our plans were to go late-Aug thru mid-Sept.

Northern Kauai is best this time of year since it can be very wet in the winter time. Poipu is the dry side of the island and is great in the winter (the photo to the left is from the Sheraton in December...)

Piopu is about a 45 minute drive from Princeville (no traffic).

Re: Maui and Kauai - yes, there is more to do on Maui, and while the growth there has been staggering. Kauai is growing rapidly also (there are many great restaurants within walking distance of the Sheraton Poipu). There is more island awareness on Kauai to control growth. Maui is not keeping up with the infra-structure of its growth - as witnessed around Lahaina.

For Lahaina:
averages -
Summer: L 71 - H 88 (~0.1-0.3" of rain)
Winter: L 64 - H 82 (~2.5-3.0" of rain)

tomandrobin · Oct 25, 2007

DeniseM said:
The WKORV and Princeville units are nearly identical in design and decor - the furnishings look identical (W minimalist.) The primary difference will be their locations.

I was refering to the "feel" of the resort, not the unit type or decor.

DeniseM · Oct 26, 2007

tomandrobin said:
I was refering to the "feel" of the resort, not the unit type or decor.

OK - I'll bite - what is it that will make it feel different?

tomandrobin · Oct 26, 2007

DeniseM said:
OK - I'll bite - what is it that will make it feel different?

Just interperting the above posts. Maui is your nice beach oriented resort. Princeville will be more of a luxury, upscale, secluded resort. Sheraton is a level below the Maui and two levels below the Princeville resort.

I can see the Maui and Sheraton lacations having more appeal to families, especially those with younger kids. Princeville seems to be more geared to couples or families with older kids.

Now we have not been to any of the islands, so I am basing this on the above posts.

Time2Ponder · Oct 26, 2007

tomandrobin said:
Just interperting the above posts. Maui is your nice beach oriented resort. Princeville will be more of a luxury, upscale, secluded resort. Sheraton is a level below the Maui and two levels below the Princeville resort.

I can see the Maui and Sheraton lacations having more appeal to families, especially those with younger kids. Princeville seems to be more geared to couples or families with older kids.

Now we have not been to any of the islands, so I am basing this on the above posts.

The fact that WKORV sits on a beach makes it neither less luxurious nor less upscale than WPORV. Is WPORV more secluded? Yes. Absolutely.

We are older DINKs, and we prefer the WKORV Maui location. Why? It's not as crowded as the Whalers Village area and it still feels less comercialized than where Marriott, for example, sits. When we're there, we still feel as if we're away from it all. However, if we want to go out and enjoy a bit of nightlife, we can do that, as well, with Lahaina and Kahana nearby. To us, it's the best of both worlds.

And, if you think that WKORV's accomodations and amenities are not luxurious (at least for TSs), then you just haven't been looking in the right place. They are far more upscale than what Marriott offers at MOC. And, they're virtually identical to WPORV.

You're presuming that WPORV is "more of a luxury, upscale..." resort simply based on its location. That's a mistake. Just take a look at the Four Seasons in Wailea. It's on a beach. It's even located near the touristy area of Kihei. Does that make it non-luxury and downscale?

Henry M. · Oct 26, 2007

tomandrobin said:
Maui is your nice beach oriented resort. Princeville will be more of a luxury, upscale, secluded resort. Sheraton is a level below the Maui and two levels below the Princeville resort.

I don't know what the Sheraton will be like, but WKORV-N and WPORV are virtually the same luxury-wise, just the locations are different. Some people will like the seclusion of Princeville, some will prefer being near the bustle of Ka'anapali and Lahaina. Now the Princeville St. Regis Hotel, about a mile or so away from the resort, that is another matter. That hotel is more upscale than the Ka'anapali hotels. WPORV is not connected to the St. Regis hotel and WKORV/N are not related to the Ka'anapali Westin and Sheraton hotels either.

Other Princeville properties are nicer than the area around Ka'anapali but the WPORV itself is not much different than WKORV and WKORV-N (especially the latter). Princeville, the location, is more like the Kapalua or Wailea areas of Maui.

benjaminb13 · Oct 26, 2007

I havent been to either- - but may consider purchasing at princeville-
This is how I see the comparison as a potential buyer.
IMO it seems princeville would be better suited for a more relaxing /personal/quality /quietvacation- sort of like the hyatt resorts
And wKORV more mainsteam/ beach/ children / activities-
If im right,It would be really special to do a 14 day vac and combine Princeville with my HGVC waikoloa resort- and enjoy a little of both worlds

How much does princeville go for in the developer and resale market?

Henry M. · Oct 26, 2007

I would base my decision more on the particular island that you like than on the resort itself. I think Kauai is indeed slower paced than Maui, while Maui has much better beaches and more variety of activities.

I also like to go to more than one island, spending at least a week in one and one or two weeks in another (generally Maui for the latter). All the islands are great but different; its nice to go to all of them.

DeniseM · Oct 26, 2007

emuyshondt said:
I would base my decision more on the particular island that you like than on the resort itself.

I agree - the resorts are virtually identical, so the 3 biggies for me are:

1) Do you want to be ON the beach? (Yes!)
2) Do you like Maui or Kauai better? (Kauai!)
3) Do you like the weather in Princeville? (No!)

Also, I have to consider the voluntary/mandatory thing. The WKORV has lost 33% of it's original value and it's mandatory. I predict that Princeville will go down to 50%. So if you buy either place - buy RESALE!

DavidnRobin · Oct 26, 2007

DeniseM said:
I agree - the resorts are virtually identical, so the 3 biggies for me are:

1) Do you want to be ON the beach? (Yes!)
2) Do you like Maui or Kauai better? (Kauai!)
3) Do you like the weather in Princeville? (No!)

Also, I have to consider the voluntary/mandatory thing. The WKORV has lost 33% of it's original value and it's mandatory. I predict that Princeville will go down to 50%. So if you buy either place - buy RESALE!

Well... since we are listing our opinions.

1) Do you want to be ON the beach? In Maui - definitely. In Kauai - not as important.
2) Do you like Maui or Kauai better? I like both - but for different reasons
3) Do you like the weather in Princeville? Yes - in the summer. Yes, for Maui all year round.

We paid ~$25K for our EOY WPORV - do you really think it will drop to $12.5K (50%)? I am betting that it won't.

I will not attempt to predict what will happen with the value of WPORV. In buying WPORV (EOY) from SVO (we bought our 1st 3 SVO VOIs resale) - I did assume up to a $10K loss, but (for us) $5K of this potential loss is offset by the 225K SPs we got, getting to 3* Elite (via requal) by folding our WKORV OF unit into the SVO system.

While there is a claim that Elite status may not matter ('first come - first served') - unit location (highest floor) is important to us for our WKORV OF unit, and when push comes to shove - Elite members may end up getting a higher floor. (beside - SVO/SVN could always change their policy about this in favor of Elites) This, and being able to use the Elite phone line - is worth the other $5K to us. At least that is how we justified it.

Besides - it looks like we got in under the wire with requal an EY with an EOY, getting EOY for 50% of EY as non-SVO owners, getting our EOY usage to be odd (first use in 2009 when we do have the vacation time and the resort will be fully built), and using the ExpPkg on the same day, etc.

WPORV SVO prices are now creeping up (especially with WKORV-N selling out). I also believe WPORV will be a unique SVO - and that it being a V resort may not matter. Unless there is a drastic change in Kauai's growth policies - there will be only 179 units. It's association with the St. Regis Hotel (which has beautiful beachfront - perhaps the nicest in Kauai) is also a benefit - eventhough WPORV owners are paying for this.

I know many people (including us) who think northern Kauai is a very special place on earth (much like STJ in that manner). Will it buck the trend of the other V resorts - only time will tell... In the meantime - before we get to use WPORV - WKORV-WKV-WSJ-WKORV-WKV-WSJ - then WPORV...

formerhater · Oct 26, 2007

Off topic here, but do Dave and Tom ever get tired of sharing Robin?

I think it's really difficult to make judgements about these properties without visiting them. Artist renderings, sales materials, and interpretations from the rest of us here on TUG only go so far as to painting a picture of what a place is really like. The fact that WPORV has not opened yet makes things especially difficult because even those of us who have been to Princeville and purchased WPORV don't truly know what it will be like. Of course, we didn't let that stop us from spending money on it.

Based on renderings, I agree that the interiors at WPORV are pretty similar to those for WKORVN. The physical layout of the WPORV property does seem quite a bit different with several smaller buildings that are 2-3 stories instead of one big 6 story building. Not saying that makes one better than the other--just a little different. It really does come down to island (and area) preference and I think most people who prefer the Princeville area will like WPORV better and those who like Maui better will prefer WKORV (I'm really going out on a limb here). That is unless you stay in watching Skinemax on HBO the whole time--then it won't matter what island you're on. :banana:

Anyone considering purchasing at either should really take the time and money to go and visit for themselves. It's pretty clear that most folks have their island preferences for various reasons and it doesn't make much sense to spend tens of thousands based solely on the advice of any of us.

Time2Ponder · Oct 26, 2007

formerhater said:
Off topic here, but do Dave and Tom ever get tired of sharing Robin?

I think it's really difficult to make judgements about these properties without visiting them. Artist renderings, sales materials, and interpretations from the rest of us here on TUG only go so far as to painting a picture of what a place is really like. The fact that WPORV has not opened yet makes things especially difficult because even those of us who have been to Princeville and purchased WPORV don't truly know what it will be like. Of course, we didn't let that stop us from spending money on it.

Based on renderings, I agree that the interiors at WPORV are pretty similar to those for WKORVN. The physical layout of the WPORV property does seem quite a bit different with several smaller buildings that are 2-3 stories instead of one big 6 story building. Not saying that makes one better than the other--just a little different. It really does come down to island (and area) preference and I think most people who prefer the Princeville area will like WPORV better and those who like Maui better will prefer WKORV (I'm really going out on a limb here). That is unless you stay in watching Skinemax on HBO the whole time--then it won't matter what island you're on.

Anyone considering purchasing at either should really take the time and money to go and visit for themselves. It's pretty clear that most folks have their island preferences for various reasons and it doesn't make much sense to spend tens of thousands based solely on the advice of any of us.

Agreed. I was simply pointing out that factually, presence on a beach has nothing to do with the luxuriousness or upscaledness (a neologism!!) of a property.

Everything is a matter of personal preference.

formerhater · Oct 26, 2007

Time2Ponder said:
Agreed. I was simply pointing out that factually, presence on a beach has nothing to do with the luxuriousness or upscaledness (a neologism!!) of a property.QUOTE]

I absolutely agree with you.

skim118 · Oct 26, 2007

DavidnRobin said:
It's association with the St. Regis Hotel (which has beautiful beachfront - perhaps the nicest in Kauai) is also a benefit - eventhough WPORV owners are paying for this.

I don't get this statement that has been repeated by many; What exactly are the exclusive benefits for WPORV owners in St. Regis and they better be set in a contract or else for sure they will disappear in the future(as it happened in Maui ).

There is public access to the beach & free parking too.

The type of guests that would stay in the future St. Regis will definitely not let the "timeshare" people in their pool for sure.

wintermom · Oct 31, 2007

If I am remembering correctly as an owner at Princeville we can use the
resort beach -which is lovely - but not the pool. The beach at the resort
had nice lounge chairs and great bar service that I believe you could charge
back to you timeshare room. This would be nice but I doubt that I would
use it very often. I want a veiw of the water and the mountains but I
don't really need to sit on the beach. My husband and I walked the path
down to the beach from the timeshare site and its very walkable, a bit
steep but not bad at all so we feel we would not be missing the beach.

We love Maui and Kauai - our two favorite places but we chose to buy in
Kauai thinking it would be better to own when there is much more limited
inventory. There are only three in our family so if we ever travel on our
own we hope we can easly trade one side of our lockoff for a week in Maui.

DavidnRobin · Oct 31, 2007

skim118 said:
I don't get this statement that has been repeated by many; What exactly are the exclusive benefits for WPORV owners in St. Regis and they better be set in a contract or else for sure they will disappear in the future(as it happened in Maui ).

There is public access to the beach & free parking too.

The type of guests that would stay in the future St. Regis will definitely not let the "timeshare" people in their pool for sure.

I finally got chance to take another look at the WPORV Owners Manual (Sec 4.8) in regards to this - essentially WPORV owners pay for membership into the Princeville at Hanalei Community Association (pcaonline.org) as part of the annual MFs.

In more concise text (than the legalize it is written in) - WPORV Owners will have the same rights as Hotel guests to use the Hotel's beach, tennis courts, and certain other facilities and amenities of the Hotel and the Princeville community - this will NOT include use of the Hotel pool and hot-tub (and btw - visa-versa - meaning Hotel guests do not get the right to use the WPORV pool and hot-tub). Use and activity fees for Hotel and Community Amenties will be the same as for the Hotel guests (e.g. golf, horseback riding, spa...). This right will extend for 8 years after occupancy - at which time it will be re-evaluated.