While I'm complaining...[Alternatives to depositing w/II?]

Twinkstarr · Sep 16, 2009

rickandcindy23 said:
You need to reserve a prime ski week, like week 7 or 10, for LT, and RCI will be happy to give you top trading power, I think. They should.

You should be able to get something really great with a prime ski week.

I've got week 10 sitting in II right now. With LT in RCI, it's listed as "limited availability", but after this II fiasco that may change.

Can't book 7, as it's at event week,

The problem is figuring out in RCI, what DH would consider a great week.

l2trade · Sep 19, 2009

Trading strategy under the new Starwood / II system...

So, let's assume you own non-SVN 1-52 red at Sheraton Desert Oasis under the new system. You used to be able to start planning up to one year in advance and deposit / request first that specific week with II.

Here is my current understanding of the new rules and my opinions about a possible II trading strategy under them. I welcome corrections and alternate opinions:
A) You can reserve any week, 1-52, up to one year in advance for stay, rent, gift or non-II exchange.
B) Starwood prevents you from depositing that specific reservation with II.
C) Starwood cancels your existing reservation when doing an 'assignment'.
D) If you wait too long to change your mind, the available reservation choices will be diminished.
E) Platinum weeks at SDO are 1-21 & 50-52. These weeks correspond well with the II Travel Demand Index.

An 'assignment' is really neither a 'request first' or permanent 'deposit'. Those old trading choices have lost their meaning under the new system. You can assign a unit to II and take it back up until either:

a) You get a 'pending exchange' and Starwood gives II an actual unit of their choosing.
b) Your usage year ends and the 'assignment' becomes permanent within II. At this point, the week is available to exchange in II until June, two years after your usage year.

So, what can you do right now if you still want to give II a shot? Plan even EARLIER! For your 2011 week:

1. Jan 1, 2010: Assign your 2011 weeks to II. Do 'request first' and 'search first' to try to get the weeks you want. Most likely, you will be able to get good 2010 weeks in exchange for your 2011 week. So, if you find what you are looking for, you are really giving up next year's usage to travel in the current year.

2. During platinum weeks 1-21, you can continue to search for an exchange. If one of these platinum weeks appeal to you, cancel the assignment ASAP and make the reservation at your home resort. You can now stay or rent out that 2011 platinum week. II will not get your week or exchange fees.

3. Otherwise, continue searching with II until Christmas 2010. If you still don't have the exchange you want, cancel the 2011 assignment. Now, you can book Christmas or New Years platinum weeks for 2011. At this point, II's opportunity to give you a good exchange without you risking losing the opportunity to make a platinum value reservation at your home resort it OVER.

4. Otherwise, continue searching in II during your 2011 usage year. If you remove the assignment during 2011, SDO may no longer have desired 2011 week available that you want. Do this at your own risk!

5. Otherwise, II owns the week by the end of 2011. Your trading power is Gold Plus season. You have until June 2013 to use it. Good luck with that!

Firstly, I am still fully committed to join with gcmarine and others on his list to get these new rules reversed. While we await the outcome, this is the new trading strategy I propose with II. Done well, it involves more phone calls and shorter windows to trust II with my week. It discourages deposits out of our control. I'd like some feedback from fellow tuggers, especially from others who join in our complaints. Personally, I draw the line at step 3. I've decided against joining RCI at this point for several reasons, namely the ongoing class action against them I read about (link on TUG home page). No sense rewarding one type of bad behavior in protest against another.

PS - I could keep these ideas or strategies to myself, but that goes against my personal principles. IMHO, that is not what TUG is all about. The internet empowers consumers to be educated and make their own choices. I do not believe in looking for loopholes or how to beat the system. I believe in contracts, the rule of law and following those rules. I believe in planning and persistence.

Fredm · Sep 19, 2009

l2trade said:
2. During platinum weeks 1-21, you can continue to search for an exchange. If one of these platinum weeks appeal to you, cancel the assignment ASAP and make the reservation at your home resort. You can now stay or rent out that 2011 platinum week. II will not get your week or exchange fees.

Click to expand...

According to Starwood's written explanation, I.I. does get the transaction fee. It must be paid at the time a search is requested.

l2trade · Sep 20, 2009

Fredm said:
According to Starwood's written explanation, I.I. does get the transaction fee. It must be paid at the time a search is requested.

Good point. Yes, you pay an exchange fee to II upfront. However, I've always been told that if you cancel a 'request first' search, the exchange fee would then be returned. Am I wrong about that assumption? Does II try to keep the exchange fee, even if you cancel a 'request first' before it is confirmed? I hope not. I've never actually needed to try this before. The 'request first' has always eventually been confirmed or I applied it towards a 'search first' alternative that I found while my request is pending. Up until this change, I always trusted II with the trading value of the specific week that I deposited with them. I do not trust that my Gold Plus week season will retain an acceptable trading power level. I've seen quite a few weeks at my home resort rent as getaways for far less $$$ than my maintenance fees. I'd rather rent out my platinum week than take my chances on the unknown trading value.

In my 2009 II Resort Directory, on page 489, Fees section, #2 talks about exchange fee refunds. It looks like there are, in fact, some potential hoops to go through. a) Exchange cannot be confirmed b) written or oral cancellation request prior to Confirmation c) request refund in writing

I'm ok with all these steps but the written refund request. If I'm on the phone with an II agent and I meet criteria a & b, I would be pretty annoyed if they still required me to send a letter requesting the refund.

I'm sure some tuggers must have cancelled II 'request first' before. How did II handle the exchange refund experience when you ended up keeping your home resort reservation? Were you out the exchange fee? Did they try to pressure/dissuade you from canceling the request and/or make you go through these hoops for the refund?

If this process with II is overly cumbersome, then I may need to amend my strategy to be primarily 'search first'. I would need to be careful not to trust II with too many search firsts. I would keep some envelopes and refund request letters handy.

Also, this reminds me of the most important final part of my strategy: I will promptly cancel my II gold membership and request a pro rated refund next year if this strategy doesn't work for me. I've prepaid for quite some years into the future.

rickandcindy23 · Sep 20, 2009

I feel certain that my requests will be unfulfilled. I put in a request for Maui and Kauai for February, two week timespan. I used an SBP 2 bedroom, and it has been months since I started the search. It will never come to fruition, I am so sure of it at this point.

I have never had II give me a hassle for the refund of an exchange fee. I always know for certain that I can get my money back.

l2trade · Sep 20, 2009

rickandcindy23 said:
I feel certain that my requests will be unfulfilled. I put in a request for Maui and Kauai for February, two week timespan. I used an SBP 2 bedroom, and it has been months since I started the search. It will never come to fruition, I am so sure of it at this point.

That is my concern too. It is why I will continue to complain about this new system. I've done repeated 'search first' trials, comparing an earlier one bedroom Easter week deposit with a 2bd 'gold plus' trading power in the new system. Guess which one shows any results for Hawaii? I've yet to do 'request first' with my remaining couple of 2010 units. If I do, II has only until this Christmas 2009 to make me happy with a confirmed exchange (my step #3). I am not going to Hawaii next year. So, my request may be easier for II to confirm. I'm not holding my breath.

Fredm · Sep 20, 2009

l2trade said:
l2trade said:

Good point. Yes, you pay an exchange fee to II upfront. However, I've always been told that if you cancel a 'request first' search, the exchange fee would then be returned. Am I wrong about that assumption?

Click to expand...

Before this my answer would be that the fee is refundable.
I'm not sure now that the definition of RF has changed for Starwood owners.
While the request itself does remain cancel-able, all Starwood owner exchange requests are being categorized as RF. They do not become irrevocable until owners use season ends. At that point, the only remaining use is accrual as a trade.
Why? As a practical matter, if the owner cannot keep a home resort reservation when the RF is canceled, RF is really dead. An owner will not wait very long for the request to be filled.
Remember, the trade time lines do not change the fact that home resort reservation preference period ends at month 8. So, its a quick in-out of the request, or understand that it is a DF in sheep clothing.

I.I. will either be refunding a lot of fees, or is anticipating that they will not have to.

l2trade · Sep 20, 2009

Fredm said:
Before this my answer would be that the fee is refundable.
I'm not sure now that the definition of RF has changed for Starwood owners.
While the request itself does remain cancel-able, all Starwood owner exchange requests are being categorized as RF. They do not become irrevocable until owners use season ends. At that point, the only remaining use is accrual as a trade.
Why? As a practical matter, if the owner cannot keep a home resort reservation when the RF is canceled, RF is really dead. An owner will not wait very long for the request to be filled.
Remember, the trade time lines do not change the fact that home resort reservation preference period ends at month 8. So, its a quick in-out of the request, or understand that it is a DF in sheep clothing.

I.I. will either be refunding a lot of fees, or is anticipating that they will not have to.

Good points. Yes, it is very early planning and a quick in-out of the 'request first' for this strategy. Personally, I draw the line at the rolling 12 months reservation preference period. Since the week is now generic, I can try to book in January 2010, 23 months prior to the New Years week I plan to use at my home resort. I give up 12 months prior.

I'm waiting for my 2010 II Resort Directory to see how the rules changed. If II ends up having to refund a lot of fees, that might send a good message. I do not trust II with a 'mystery' week value when I have the option to book platinum week at home. For search first, I do not like what I see so far. I will continue to work with others to restore my right to keep my actual reservation and restore choices that we've always had before.

l2trade · Sep 21, 2009

Search First? Don't believe everything you see...

I noticed that some 'search first' exchange results cannot be exchanged online. If you actually click on the week, you may get a website error. I wonder if others have seen the same problem. Try to reproduce this using 2009 placeholder for a 2010 assigned week and searching more than one year from today's date. Then, try selecting one of the very best available exchange results you can find. You may also get the same website error. Yes, this can happen for very legitimate reasons such as other folks reserving the same thing before you, etc. However, redoing the search, switching between old system deposits and the new system search codes, and seeing the exchange options appear / disappear within moments of each other... All of this leads me to believe that is not the case here.

Transit · Sep 24, 2009

Transit said:
I'm taking the long brown path and it doesn't look so promising. I'll see if they actually deposit the week I reserved.RCI says Starwood controls the inventory.Starwood says they will try their best to deposit the week I reserved but couldn't guarantee it.I'll find out what unit they deposited within 72 hrs.

Took the long brown path ( thanks Nodge) and was successful .Starwood deposited the week I reserved to RCI. Preliminary searches had good results.

DeniseM · Sep 24, 2009

Transit said:
Took the long brown path ( thanks Nodge) and was successful .Starwood deposited the week I reserved to RCI. Preliminary searches had good results.

Can you please give us a step by step walk through of exactly what you did?

nodge · Sep 24, 2009

Transit said:
Took the long brown path ( thanks Nodge) and was successful .Starwood deposited the week I reserved to RCI. Preliminary searches had good results.

Congrats! We now have a confirmed data point that the brown path still leads to exchange deposit OZ with RCI.

Have any non-SVN owners out there tried to follow the brown path to make an II deposit since SVO introduced its latest changes to II?

It may be that SVO's changes just made getting reserved non-SVN weeks harder/impossible to deposit for the majority class of SVO owners who don't know any better, but SVO kept the brown path open to those who do and who are willing to get their hands, or at least their feet, a little dirty.

-nodge

Transit · Sep 24, 2009

DeniseM said:
Can you please give us a step by step walk through of exactly what you did?

I had a SDO week booked for week 13 which I was going to actually use myself but a family commitment popped up and I can't travel to AZ that week.I called II and asked to have the unit placed in my non-svn account but they wanted a 39 dollar fee just to add it.I still had an existing RCI account so I called and they added SDO no charge.I called RCI to get the week deposited, of course they sent me to the Starwood desk.After going back and fourth with the operator about depositing the week I reserved I asked for a supervisor.The supervisor said they have a office in charge of inventory and deposits and would try to get the unit I reserved deposited and I would have to wait 72 hrs.Today I logged on RCI and not only did I have My 2010 SDO show up as deposited but also 2009(used) ,2011,SBP 2009(used),2010,2011 show up as available for deposit.I'm still undecided as to what I'm going to do with the Non-SVN II account.It only has SBP in it and I don't think I will renew for just one unit.I feel the inventory in II is still better than the inventory in RCI but if the new coding doesn't give top trade power with non-svn units I'll pull out of II.On the other hand I'm seeing better II trades available with my SVV unit.I'll see how the SDO unit does in Cindy's trade test tomorrow but after a few quick RCI searches I was very happy with the results.

l2trade · Sep 29, 2009

More clues about Starwood & II...

I received this email a week or two after doing a test assignment. I've already completed an exchange on this week:

Your Interval International Assignment Has Been Processed

Your request to exchange through Interval International® has been processed. To initiate your Request First exchange, please visit the Interval International website or call Interval International toll-free at 877 STAR 088 (782 7088).

Remember, you can save up to $45 off your exchange fee when using Interval International. Take $35 off* the standard exchange fee when you discover special vacation moments at another Starwood Vacation Ownership resort through Interval International. Plus, save an additional $10 when you complete your exchange online.

For more information regarding your Use Right assignment to Interval International, please review the chart below.

Sincerely,

Owner Services
Your Interval International Use Right Assignment Acknowledgement
use year: 2010
resort: Sheraton Desert Oasis
villa type: 1 Bedroom Villa
season: Gold+/Red
resort assignment code: SI2
expiration date: 6/30/2012
Please note: The expiration date of this assignment may not be extended by Starwood Vacation Ownership or Interval International beyond the date indicated.
PLANNING YOUR EXCHANGE
You should request an exchange up to one year in advance of your desired travel dates. You are encouraged to place your exchange request as soon as you know your travel plans, especially for highly demanded travel seasons, such as summer and holiday weeks. By having flexible travel dates or resort choices, you better ensure that your exchange request will be met. Please be aware that Interval International will confirm the first week that meets your request criteria.
CHANGE YOUR MIND?
Sometimes plans change. If you have assigned your week to Interval International, and later choose to stay at your Home Resort or travel through the Starwood Vacation Network program** to another Starwood Vacation Ownership resort for your current or future Use Year, simply cancel your pending exchange requests with Interval International. For complete information about reinstating your Use Rights with Starwood Vacation Ownership, please contact Owner Services.
**Re-booking is based on availability. Use Rights at your Home Resort or through the Starwood Vacation Network program can be reinstated for a current or future Use Year. Fixed, Ultra Premium or Event Use Rights are not reinstated for the Fixed, Ultra Premium or Event week and will be reinstated as a floating week and villa based on availability. If you receive a confirmed vacation from Interval International and later cancel it, you may not be able to request reinstatement of your Use Rights.
DISCLOSURES
Your Use Right for this week is assigned for use with Interval International. You may not place a Home Resort reservation request, a Starwood Vacation Network reservation request, a Starwood Preferred Guest® conversion request, Owner rental request or other request against this Assignment. You acknowledge and understand that any Event, Ultra Premium, Fixed, Float, Home Resort or Starwood Vacation Network reservations previously held against this Assignment have been released.
If you initiate a Request First exchange for a larger unit or higher season than this Assignment, you may be subject to the relinquishment of new inventory matching the bedroom size and season of your request. This usage may be adjusted from a current or future Use Year.
Requests for travel against a prior Use Year Assignment may be denied if you exceed the unit size or season of this Assignment and your current Use Year is unavailable.
In the event of a conflict between an existing Assignment and a pending exchange request or confirmation with Interval International, Starwood Vacation Ownership will request a 10-day hold on the pending confirmation, and will make reasonable effort to contact you for resolution. Starwood Vacation Ownership is not responsible for vacation offers that lapse or are otherwise released as a result of these actions.
Exchange Fee refund policies are administered by Interval International in their sole discretion. Starwood Vacation Ownership is not responsible for the reimbursement of exchange fees that may be forfeited as the result of your cancellation of an Interval International transaction.
You may be subject to additional terms and conditions for exchange as set forth by Interval International.
This acknowledgment is provided solely for your convenience. We retain official records of reservation transactions. In the event of discrepancies including typographical errors, alterations, modifications or variations between this acknowledgment and our official records, our official records shall control.
* Trade into any Starwood Vacation Ownership resort to qualify for the discount. Non-Starwood Vacation Ownership resorts are not permitted in exchange requests. Owners relinquishing anything other than Starwood Vacation Ownership weeks are ineligible. Discount applies to new exchange requests only and previously confirmed or pending exchanges are not entitled to a refund or discount. Discount is for Owners residing in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean islands, and serviced by the U.S. Servicing office for Interval International. All other Owners will receive comparable discounts set by their servicing office. Owners residing in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean islands will be charged the discounted domestic exchange fee when traveling to Starwood Vacation Ownership resorts in Cancún, The Bahamas and the U.S. Virgin Islands.

Politico · Sep 29, 2009

l2trade said:
If you initiate a Request First exchange for a larger unit or higher season than this Assignment, you may be subject to the relinquishment of new inventory matching the bedroom size and season of your request. This usage may be adjusted from a current or future Use Year.
Requests for travel against a prior Use Year Assignment may be denied if you exceed the unit size or season of this Assignment and your current Use Year is unavailable.

This makes it sounds like you cannot trade a 1br for a 2br (or at least w/o significant restrictions/penalties) as we could previously.

Joshadelic · Sep 29, 2009

Politico said:
This makes it sounds like you cannot trade a 1br for a 2br (or at least w/o significant restrictions/penalties) as we could previously.

That's the whole problem I have with this. They told me there is no more "deposit first" - which tells me I cannot exchange a 1br for a 2br. I am able to search for exchanges 2 years out and I am able to see 2br+ units with all of my 1br units, but I haven't heard of anyone being able to complete an exchange like that yet. From what I was told, if you complete an exchange online after doing a search with one of your "assigned" weeks, it is up to Starwood to "pay" II with whatever week they want. I was told, however, that it is possible that II will not accept the week that Starwood "pays" them with. If that's the case, I'm just wondering how much luck people will have with exchanging for larger units.

By the way, I got the same email today from Starwood about my units being assigned. The funny thing is that I asked them to do this about one month ago. It took them that long to send me the confirmation.

Fcast · Sep 29, 2009

Fredm said:
I will cancel my I.I. membership.
I will also advise all my non-SVN Starwood clients to not enroll, or cancel existing memberships in favor of the boutiques.

I would never recommend RCI to them.

FredM

Could you give me some examples of the boutiques? Thanks.

Fredm · Oct 1, 2009

Fcast said:
FredM

Could you give me some examples of the boutiques? Thanks.

Hi Fcast.

Hope all is well.

Several you should take a look at.

Platinum Interchange, SFX, and Trading Places.

A couple of things to be aware of.

As they have relatively few members, selection may not be what you are looking for at a point in time.
Especially when looking for very top tier resorts.

On the other hand, service will be more personalized.

There is a bbs for each of these here on TUG.

While I'm complaining...[Alternatives to depositing w/II?]

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