Marriott owners beware of II

[laurac260]

Originally Posted by dougp26364

I got a phone call from HGVC this evening. You are absolutely correct. Renting in any form, even to recover MF's on your points, is strictly prohibited under any circumstances. He went on to say that so long as you don't tell HGVC that you're renting the unit, they don't bother to check up on it. In other words, if you don't tell them what you're doing, it never happened.

ok, so no renting of any form. I am sure they know redweek (and all the other websites) exist. I don't look for HGVC rentals, but I am sure there are plenty. I wonder what would happen if you posed the same question to Marriott?

[chriskre]

Originally Posted by dougp26364

The only problem with doing something like this is when you belong to some sort of system where it's first come, first served for reserving weeks. Get a few of those running a booming rental business at a resort booking all the most popular weeks and you'll have a lot of owners who bought a timeshare week to use getting pretty upset. Nothing like buying a week but not being able to use it because someone is profiting by renting out the weeks all the other owners want.

Oh sure you can say, it's only 40 weeks out of 1,000. But if only 10 people are doing it then they're taking up 40% of the weeks available and then you get into trouble with 60% of the owners. That could potentially deplete all the best weeks right at the first opportunity to reserve. Those single week owners who can't plan 12 months in advance may never get a decent week. That's a problem.

Sunterra was a prime example. Their weeks sold for pennies on the dollar resale. Their MF's were inexpensive by industry standards. They had desirable locations that would rent well. Sunterra kept a blind eye to the rental business being done.

Now comes DRI who decides this isn't good for owners who want to use their weeks. DRI is enforcing the rule against commercial renting of units/points. There's some very upset owners that can no longer rent for profit but, there are owners who have points to use that are maybe a little happier with their ownership now that they can actually get the weeks they want for internal exchanges.

Timeshare wasn't developed to become a cottage rental industry for a few people with the money and time to do it. Timeshare was developed as a way for people to take great vacations in mult. locations at a fraction of the cost of buying permanent vacation homes. When people buy timeshares to rent, it disrupts those that have bought to use.

I guess I understand why owners would be upset but my friend owns fixed weeks not floating weeks. If one owns fixed weeks I don't see who is being harmed by someone wanting to make money on their week. It was theirs to use anyway. I guess in an older weeks resort it would be fair but in a points resort or a floating week I could see how many would be upset.
I own DVC and this is getting to be a problem with DVC. I'm tempted to rent my points and just stay at Bonnet Creek. I think I've got a better chance at a 2 bedroom for a week that way.

[Dave M]

Originally Posted by laurac260

ok, so no renting of any form. I am sure they know redweek (and all the other websites) exist. I don't look for HGVC rentals, but I am sure there are plenty. I wonder what would happen if you posed the same question to Marriott?

Marriott would say they don't care. Unlike HGVC, Marriott has no prohibition against renting your own weeks.

[dougp26364]

Originally Posted by laurac260

ok, so no renting of any form. I am sure they know redweek (and all the other websites) exist. I don't look for HGVC rentals, but I am sure there are plenty. I wonder what would happen if you posed the same question to Marriott?

Keep in mind that the guy from HGVC indicated that they have a don't tell, don't know policy. So long as you don't tell them that your renting your unit they aren't going to be looking for rentals. Sort of stupid to have the rule in the first place if you're not going to enforce it.

As Dave mentioned, Marriott has no such rule against renting your unit. Heck, they'll even rent if for you........for a price......if you want.

[dougp26364]

Originally Posted by chriskre

I guess I understand why owners would be upset but my friend owns fixed weeks not floating weeks. If one owns fixed weeks I don't see who is being harmed by someone wanting to make money on their week. It was theirs to use anyway. I guess in an older weeks resort it would be fair but in a points resort or a floating week I could see how many would be upset.
I own DVC and this is getting to be a problem with DVC. I'm tempted to rent my points and just stay at Bonnet Creek. I think I've got a better chance at a 2 bedroom for a week that way.

With fixed weeks I don't see any problem either. That week, and in some cases that particular unit, wasn't going to be available to the general ownership population anyway.

It seems that anymore most timeshares have some sort of floating week reservation system. Many seem to have gone to a points based reservation system. It's in these systems where owners compete to get the best weeks that heavy renters can do the most damage.

[chriskre]

Makes sense.

[Pit]

Originally Posted by dougp26364

Timeshare wasn't developed to become a cottage rental industry for a few people with the money and time to do it. Timeshare was developed as a way for people to take great vacations in mult. locations at a fraction of the cost of buying permanent vacation homes. When people buy timeshares to rent, it disrupts those that have bought to use.

That's how its sold, but in reality, timeshare was created as a way for developers and their shareholders to make money.

In most cases there is nothing to preclude an enterprising individual from buying up cheap timeshares and running a rental or resale business. As Alan would say... Is this a great country, or what?

[chriskre]

Yes it is a great country.

I guess since I don't exchange my weeks that much I usually use my weeks I don't get as upset as most weeks owners.

Maybe if I get sick of using my 3 fixed weeks then I might feel differently.

I guess I've just learned to change with the system and buy points resorts lately instead of weeks that I can't use. Everything in this country seems to be changing and not surprisingly so is the timeshare game. Life's just too short not to change too and live in eternal frustration. "Life as it is not as it should be", is my new motto.

[SueDonJ]

Thought I'd mention that for the Getaway week I booked yesterday at intervalworld.com, the name, address and telephone number of the guest were required for online processing of the Guest Certificate.

[pianodinosaur]

Originally Posted by Dave M

Marriott would say they don't care. Unlike HGVC, Marriott has no prohibition against renting your own weeks.

Ergo, it would seem to me that the OP would not be violating any MVC regulations by renting weeks that he already owns. However, it would seem that MVC and II are different entities and that renting an exchange is a violation of II rules. Therefore, II is not doing anything improper in this situation but rather the OP may in fact be doing something improper with II.

[NJMOM2]

We just got back from Harbour Lake and when the salesman was explaining how he manipulates the system so his MF are covered my jaw hit the floor. He explained how he splits his lock off and pays II $99 for each part to traded into two 2 bedrooms at another Marriott. Then he RENTS the two units on E-bay. I had to stop him and tell him it's against II rules to rent an exchange. He tried to cover his tracks by telling us he owns Marriott and is just renting Marriott and that sometimes you have to manipulate the system. Well the way I see it is he paid II the $99 exchange fee therefore he is renting an EXCHANGE. I lost all respect for him after that statement. I couldn't believe he said it.

Of course there were other lies he told us too, like we lose the 24 day internal exchange advantage with our resale unit went we use it for an exchange request in II. He didn't even take us on a tour of any units - he was just trying to talk us into buy another unit direct from Marriott so we can trade it for points every year.

FYI - He did tell us that they plan on upgrading all the Harbour Lake Units to bring them up to Marriott standard with granite counter tops and flat screen TV's. I'll believe it when I see it.

[dioxide45]

Originally Posted by NJMOM2

We just got back from Harbour Lake and when the salesman was explaining how he manipulates the system so his MF are covered my jaw hit the floor. He explained how he splits his lock off and pays II $99 for each part to traded into two 2 bedrooms at another Marriott. Then he RENTS the two units on E-bay. I had to stop him and tell him it's against II rules to rent an exchange. He tried to cover his tracks by telling us he owns Marriott and is just renting Marriott and that sometimes you have to manipulate the system. Well the way I see it is he paid II the $99 exchange fee therefore he is renting an EXCHANGE. I lost all respect for him after that statement. I couldn't believe he said it.

Salespeople spew all kinds of things. Many times when they tell me how they own a bunch of weeks I don't believe them. They tell you what they think you want to hear so you will buy the week. These people are salespeople, they aren't running side businesses, they already make a bundle off the commissions for selling units.

Of course there were other lies he told us too, like we lose the 24 day internal exchange advantage with our resale unit went we use it for an exchange request in II. He didn't even take us on a tour of any units - he was just trying to talk us into buy another unit direct from Marriott so we can trade it for points every year.

Yup, more spew.

FYI - He did tell us that they plan on upgrading all the Harbour Lake Units to bring them up to Marriott standard with granite counter tops and flat screen TV's. I'll believe it when I see it.

They already have large flat screen projection TVs in the second newest building. I did hear that they placed flat panel TVs in the newest.

Upgrading to higher standards could be a cause for the 18%+ estimated increase in the reserve fee.

[laurac260]

Here's my frustration with the rental scenario. When we first bought our timeshare this summer, it was already booked for a week we could not use. It took months to get it traded. Yet at the same time, I could go on Redweek, or lots of other places, and rent TEN weeks in platinum season during times we could travel, just at our location alone. From people whom many of which had booked their weeks with no intention of ever using them.

I mean, I know there are times when someone books a week and things come up, but if you know for sure that you are not going to use that July 4-11th (or whatever pattern) primetime week in HHI , why do you think it should be yours to snatch up from someone else, just to turn around and rent it for a profit?

Before I was an owner I appreciated having lots of rentals to choose from. As an owner I was frustrated that I was not able to get a week I could use because other people had taken them already to rent them for profit.

I guess there are two sides to this coin for sure.

Just my rant for what it's worth.

[LAX Mom]

laurac260,

I can understand your frustration with owners renting their weeks, but that is the way the Marriott system works. Marriott salesmen eagerly tell you that you can purchase a Marriott week and then use it yourself, exchange it, rent it or let friends/family use it. Many people have purchased numerous weeks with the intent to rent for a profit.

Unfortunately for those who want to use their Marriott week at a popular resort/popular time it means fewer weeks are available for Marriott owners to stay that week. Obviously those intending to rent want the best weeks to maximize their rental profits.

The alternative would be a system that allows owners using their weeks to have some type of priority in reservations. But it's too late for Marriott to adopt that now, these units have been sold with the ability to reserve a great week and then use it, rent it or exchange it.

[davidvel]

Originally Posted by LAX Mom

Many people have purchased numerous weeks with the intent to rent for a profit.

Unfortunately for those who want to use their Marriott week at a popular resort/popular time it means fewer weeks are available for Marriott owners to stay that week.

I understand people's frustration with people who rent their weeks. But, it is not true that there are fewer weeks for owners to use. It means fewer owners who reserve are using them as opposed to renting them. The same weeks are available to reserve whether people end up renting them or staying in them.

Put another way, if all those people who reserved before you intending to rent actually decided to stay in their unit, would there suddenly be more weeks "available for Marriott owners to stay that week. .?" Of course the answer is no.

Feeling better that the person who beat you to reserving the week is actually using the week as opposed to making a big profit is understandable, but this is a value judgment, not a supply issue.

And just like my neighbor that rents his house to college kids, it's all within the system. (But that doesn't mean we have to like it.)

[LAX Mom]

davidvel,
You are correct, owners renting weeks does not mean there are fewer weeks available for the owners wishing to use their week. It's just that many who rent probably call exactly 12 months inadvance to book the weeks they know will be in demand. By the time other owners get around to calling at 8 or even 6 months in advance there are no weeks available.

Of course, owners may reserve a week whenever they want and use it however they wish. The individual renting his week has just as much right to a popular week as the individual wanting to stay there for a family vacation. It's the system we bought into with Marriott and that's the way it works.

[dioxide45]

Originally Posted by LAX Mom

By the time other owners get around to calling at 8 or even 6 months in advance there are no weeks available.

Even if they didn't allow reservations for rentals until say the five month mark I would bet that those prime weeks would still be all booked at the 12 month mark. Maybe they would go a little more slowly, but they would still all get booked pretty quickly. It would be interesting to know how many people book and rent, I would say less than 5%. So the impact overall is probably very small.